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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well I'm glad I just bought my 4200's for the season and before I even ran them once their outdated !!! :confused:

IB has a new "world edition " 4200 cell out with even better #'s , an easy 1.24 -1.25 volts @ 35 amps and IR 's of 1.2 -1.4 .

Come on guys , how many can really afford to buy the battery of the week.

I think this is the 3rd generation of just the 4200 cell alone.

Obviously ROAR has no real controll on this sport and you know some racers are going to have to have the latest and greatest. :cry:

IB has done some great things for this sport , but I think the've done as many poor things to prolong its life also !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Just in time for the indoor carpet season...what a coincidence!!!

This is the exact reason that I stick to dirt oval racing....I thought about buying another pancar for this fall/winter, but stuff like this is the exact reason why I will not.
 

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IB has done some great things for this sport , but I think the've done as many poor things to prolong its life also !!!!!!!!!!!!
WRONG...IB, IP, SANYO, PANASONIC, I don't care WHO it is...does NOTHING "For This Sport"

They do things to advance their products and have a market edge on the competition.

It's OUR job as race promoters, directors, racers and R/C Hobby people in general to STOP how these batteries affect US.

There are batteries that SHOULD Never even hit a track with the NiMh technology moving so rapidly...but just because a NEW cell comes out people think they have to HAVE IT.

That's the NICE thing about rules that don't allow it. It gives time for matchers to play with new cells, see whats good or bad, and it allows at least a little time to see if a cell has staying power to be around a while.

How many different versions of a 3000 were there? WAY TOO MANY.

Did anyone run 3600? Hardly
3700's? Too many
3800's EVERYONE
4200's?, 4300's? Will 4700's be out by FEBRUARY when our WEST COAST season starts? WHO KNOWS~

I'm trying to gather as MUCH info as possible as to what will be out NEXT year so when I make our rules change this November...the battery of choice WON'T become OBSOLETE 8 months later.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
According to a very reliable IB source this latest cell released almost became a 4600 cell , but for some reason they decided to keep the 4200 shrinkwrap.

Curious to the actual discharge mah ??? :confused:

And we all know whats next.

More reason we stayed with a 3800 max mah for this season !!! :thumbsup:
 

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NCFRC said:
Well I'm glad I just bought my 4200's for the season and before I even ran them once their outdated !!! :confused:

IB has a new "world edition " 4200 cell out with even better #'s , an easy 1.24 -1.25 volts @ 35 amps and IR 's of 1.2 -1.4 .

Come on guys , how many can really afford to buy the battery of the week.

I think this is the 3rd generation of just the 4200 cell alone.

Obviously ROAR has no real controll on this sport and you know some racers are going to have to have the latest and greatest. :cry:

IB has done some great things for this sport , but I think the've done as many poor things to prolong its life also !!!!!!!!!!!!
IVe tested these cells on the track and machines for almost 2 weeks now. I can tell you that these cells are the most consistant IB cell to date to match. What I can also tell you is I let some of the TOP on-road drivers in the country run them this past weekend at a big race and NONE of them could tell the difference between this cell and an SHV on the track or by looking at Lap times.

You do NOT HAVE to have these cells.....Regular SHV's will run just as good. The problem now is that the batteries have far surpased the motors and the motors can not use all the extra voltage. So you will NOT have to have these cells unless someone comes out with a new motor to take advantage of the extra voltage and power.

ALso there are NOT any 1.25 cells other than shorted cells. The top stuff I have seen has been 1.245 with most of the stuff being in the 1.235-1.240 range.

EA
 

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Also just to give you an Idea on weight of cells vrs mAh. When a company makes a larger mAh cell the weight increases. They can not make a larger mAh cell without the weight increasing. A 3800 weigh's around 66grams, a 4200SHV weighs 69.5 grams and the new 4200WC weighs 69.7grams. If this were a 4600 cell it would be around 73 grams.

At least IB puts the new cells in new shrink and doest just keep putting them in the same old shrink as they could have easly done this with the 4200's...keep them in 3800 shrink wrap and no one would have known.

EA
 

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What does ROAR have to do with the Battery companies anyway ...All ROAR does is say if they are legal after being submitted...You personally bought cells that were not legal or approved yet so that is ROARs fault now ...When IB submittes cells to ROAR then it is there problem...
 

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Humpty I agree with you, about it not being ROAR's problem. Until the MFG stops making the approved cell, and only produces the newer version. Then it's ROAR and our problem.
 

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NCFRC said:
Well I'm glad I just bought my 4200's for the season and before I even ran them once their outdated !!! :confused:

IB has a new "world edition " 4200 cell out with even better #'s , an easy 1.24 -1.25 volts @ 35 amps and IR 's of 1.2 -1.4 .

Come on guys , how many can really afford to buy the battery of the week.

I think this is the 3rd generation of just the 4200 cell alone.

Obviously ROAR has no real controll on this sport and you know some racers are going to have to have the latest and greatest. :cry:

IB has done some great things for this sport , but I think the've done as many poor things to prolong its life also !!!!!!!!!!!!
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

This has been going on for years. Simply accept that fact that there will be incremental improvements to the batteries and adapt to it.

Buy two packs. Run twice a day for 2 months. Repeat....

Do that and you'll run fine, at least for weekly shows, and you'll always be relatively on top of the latest and greatest batch of cells.

Honestly if you went out and bought 8 packs or something for the indoor season I really don't feel sorry for you.
 

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The only people to blame for the way batteries are , is the racers and the tracks. Tracks don't have to allow new packs the day they come out. Racers should not have to spend 2 to 3 hundred every other month on new batteries just to keepup with the jones. Make the chassis work and the motor work for the speed. Not just batteries. I have seen so many peolpe buy horse power. Myself being in the hobby for alittle over 2 yrs has seen this done by alot of people. They don't take the time to learn the chassis or motor work. they just want to lay down fast laps. You can have all the motor and battery in the world, but if you car isn't handling you might as well stay at home.


Just my 2 cents. :eek:
 

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NCFRC said:
According to a very reliable IB source this latest cell released almost became a 4600 cell , but for some reason they decided to keep the 4200 shrinkwrap........ !!! :thumbsup:
I'm sure for obvious reasons that if IB declared this cell a 4600, then it most likely would not be approved by Roar until first of the year or there about, and not available for up coming major events, IIC, Cleveland, etc. :mad:

Good luck to all that recently purchased the SHV cells, hard to imagine your cells would be outdated that quick with no notification, except for dealers so they could sell off exisiting stock and have racers stuck with the cells and not them.

Anchor :freak:
 

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MIDWESTRC said:
The only people to blame for the way batteries are , is the racers and the tracks. Tracks don't have to allow new packs the day they come out. Racers should not have to spend 2 to 3 hundred every other month on new batteries just to keepup with the jones. Make the chassis work and the motor work for the speed. Not just batteries. I have seen so many peolpe buy horse power. Myself being in the hobby for alittle over 2 yrs has seen this done by alot of people. They don't take the time to learn the chassis or motor work. they just want to lay down fast laps. You can have all the motor and battery in the world, but if you car isn't handling you might as well stay at home.


Just my 2 cents. :eek:

AMEN AMEN AMEN CHASSIS CHASSIS CHASSIS all you have to do is apply it to BIG CARS give me a setup pinto with a v6 and a v8 pinto not setup hhhhhhmmmmmmm one would think the v8 but NOT TRUE........

WHY DO YOU THINK NASCAR WORKS SO MUCH ON THE CHASSIS AND AERODYNAMICS

COME ON GUYS, buy what you want or don't You can win with the "old" IB3800's that are still out there......
 

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MIDWESTRC said:
The only people to blame for the way batteries are , is the racers and the tracks. Tracks don't have to allow new packs the day they come out. Racers should not have to spend 2 to 3 hundred every other month on new batteries just to keepup with the jones. Make the chassis work and the motor work for the speed. Not just batteries. I have seen so many peolpe buy horse power. Myself being in the hobby for alittle over 2 yrs has seen this done by alot of people. They don't take the time to learn the chassis or motor work. they just want to lay down fast laps. You can have all the motor and battery in the world, but if you car isn't handling you might as well stay at home.


Just my 2 cents. :eek:
Unfortunately an IB4200 is an IB4200 in the eyes of the rule book. There is nothing anyone can do to control or stop them from making incremental improvements within a type of cell.

You and Cody haven't been around long, but believe me the playing field is a lot more level and a lot less expensive than it was years ago.

Back when we ran 6 cell with the Sanyo 2000s I used to help someone match cells. I would take the best 6-18 cells in each case as my payment for helping and for my sponsorship. I don't for sure remember the numbers that the packs would cycle at back then, but I think this will be close. I had packs that cycled at 7.13 and I paid 0 dollars for them. Best case scenario for guys without that advantage was paying $80 for a 7.00 pack. Believe me that made a difference on the track.

Things are good now and more fair than they have ever been.

Every couple months spend $80-90 for a couple fresh packs. That isn't that bad.
 

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Here's an idea for LEGALIZING batteries for the use in ROAR.

ALL Batteries used at Regional or National EVENTS must have been sold by a Major Distributor and at least 250,000 cells must be available for retail purchase.

I've heard that IB quit MFG'ing the 3800's in August, but if thier supply is in warehouses, who really cares when it went out of production...as long as there is still a supply available to purchase and match. How many Motors and Batteries are still on the shelf at a lot of Hobbyshops across the country that NOBODY will ever use to race with? You have to hope the backyard bashers pick some of them up...or else....OPPPPS another Hobbyshop Closed w/ a obsolete inventory.

There is NO simple answer, so let's have ONE class UNLIMITED for the "big dogs" and keep the rest of us WILD PUPPIES on a short leash...
 

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swtour said:
Here's an idea for LEGALIZING batteries for the use in ROAR.

ALL Batteries used at Regional or National EVENTS must have been sold by a Major Distributor and at least 250,000 cells must be available for retail purchase.

I've heard that IB quit MFG'ing the 3800's in August, but if thier supply is in warehouses, who really cares when it went out of production...as long as there is still a supply available to purchase and match. How many Motors and Batteries are still on the shelf at a lot of Hobbyshops across the country that NOBODY will ever use to race with? You have to hope the backyard bashers pick some of them up...or else....OPPPPS another Hobbyshop Closed w/ a obsolete inventory.

There is NO simple answer, so let's have ONE class UNLIMITED for the "big dogs" and keep the rest of us WILD PUPPIES on a short leash...
See you fail to get the point. IB manufactures cells as they are ordered as they are ONLY made for RC and no other industry. When they come off the assembly line they get boxed up and shipped with in days. There is no "warehouse" full of IB3800's. When they stopped running them there supply was empty within a few days to a week max.

SMC brings in around 25-30,000 cells in a week....so they would meet that withing a few months.....So your senario doesnt really work there.

There is no way to stop the battery manufactures.....As someone said it is up to the Tracks and Racers to do that. But if the tracks do it and piss their racers off they will just go else where to race and use their new super duper voltage batteries.

I will say this again. The USA is 1 of only about 3-4 countries in the world that actually has a "battery approval" each year.....I have customers in all parts of the world I deal with and none of them bitch when a new cell comes out. Most other countries race 2-5 times each week as well!!

EA
 

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We used to go by date codes when buying batteries. Even though we may have ran a 2000 ma there were date codes that had better volts, IR and run time. We did not run out and get the latest until we needed to replace packs. Then we looked for the best code. The codes changed about 5 times a year. GP keep updating the 3300 just did not change the name or use a code.

No different to day. Instead of a date code we get the SHV or the Worlds.
After almost 20 years at this it has never really changed. Just work on the car. Read the post on this site, asked question here and at the track. Instead of thinking that .001 of a volt will get you beat.

I have learned more in the last 4 years than before using internet sites. Today people are happy to help, not like in the past. Take that knowledge and get a better understanding of what to do.

I have been running Nitro oval all summer, no batteries needed. I plan to run indoors this fall and winter and have not purchased my packs yet, but will in the next week or so. I only plan to by 2 new packs. Then by the time the Bird,s come around, I can get 2 of what ever is out.

Be willing to use older packs for practice and repeat use of the good ones for racing. Put the extra money into tires and things that make the chassis better. Go and have fun and try not to think you have to win. You may be surprised at how much you improve.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
MIDWESTRC said:
The only people to blame for the way batteries are , is the racers and the tracks. Tracks don't have to allow new packs the day they come out. Racers should not have to spend 2 to 3 hundred every other month on new batteries just to keepup with the jones. Make the chassis work and the motor work for the speed. Not just batteries. I have seen so many peolpe buy horse power. Myself being in the hobby for alittle over 2 yrs has seen this done by alot of people. They don't take the time to learn the chassis or motor work. they just want to lay down fast laps. You can have all the motor and battery in the world, but if you car isn't handling you might as well stay at home.


Just my 2 cents. :eek:
Thats the key , Tracks don't have to allow new packs the day they come out ! The 4200 isn't even approved yet.
I agree , 2/3 of the speed is in the chassis but lets play fair.
No , I didn't buy 6 / 4200 packs but the quantity doesn't really matter its just the point that batteries are changing faster than computers.
 

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Guys this is all much ado about nothing.

As anyone who works in manufacturing knows companies are always striving to make continual improvements to the design of their product and to their manufacturing process. Sometimes the improvements make the product better, sometimes they make it cheaper to manufacture and sometimes both.

Do people expect that IB or any other battery company is not going to implement design tweeks or process improvements as soon as they realize the opportunity? They have to, there is no choice for them. They have to or they are dealing unfairly to all of their employees as well as investors, if it is a public company.

Even if the batteries never ever ever changed at all the fast guys would still be on fresh packs periodically. People act like if the batteries didn't change they would never have to buy new packs. When we had 3300s for several years if you were running two year old packs you were just as uncompetitive as if you were running 2400s. I guess I just don't see how anything has changed.

The only thing that has changed over the years is that now anyone with $45 can buy a pack that will run competitively at a national event. That is the best thing that has ever happened for the hobby in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The bottom line is that all this additional spending doesn't help the future of this sport one bit.

Yes , alot of racers are used to buying many packs thru out the season but try and explain that to someone looking to get into this sport, he'll think your nuts.

The only feasable answer is to let your "por , I mean Pro " classes run any sub c and limit your entry level ones.
 
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