[StarshipClass]

Mark,

An update. I found it. Star Trek The Magazine, December 2001 issue on the STMP Director's Edition. On page 84, redesigning the 1701, "He goes on to say that he had actually prepared drawings that showed the ENTERPRISE with flat nacelles when he'd originally created the ship. He had planned to present then if Gene didn't like the first version of the ENTERPRISE he saw but since they hadn't been needed he'd filed them away for future use. These drawings provided the basis for his redesign."

I knew I could find but not this fast. I am glad Gene picked what is our favorite starship. :thumbsup:

Lloyd :wave:

Thanks for clarifying that, Lloyd! I was curious about that, too! Fascinating little tidbit, there.

 

[capt Locknar]

Yoshinator,
That shot of the moulds you posted is a beauty. Does anyone else have any other rare photos of the models or pre production? I think that the design for the Phase II ship would stand up well as a cannon interim refit - sort of a test prototype commissioned by starfleet. I agree with the atke on the blue / white lighting effect for the bussards. It just looked so cool.

That shot was also in one of the Enterprise Incidents magazine from a while back, I believe the late 70's. I have a copy of it but the pic in that magazine looks more like a photo that was redrawn with pencil. This copy is much more cleaner.

 

[TheYoshinator!]

I can see why it's thought to be blue. It may in fact be, but in that same pic they show the physical non-glowing dish with the same blue in it. Honestly, I think the artist was just depicting a fill lit shadow and the fill light was blue. It looks to me as if the Bussards are there.. but just unlit. But that's just my opinion.

This is the only other pic I have of the molds even though it's not relevant to our discussion, here it is:

http://webpages.charter.net/theyoshinator/images/PII_3.jpg

 

[MGagen]

An update. I found it. Star Trek The Magazine, December 2001 issue on the STMP Director's Edition. On page 84, redesigning the 1701, "He goes on to say that he had actually prepared drawings that showed the ENTERPRISE with flat nacelles when he'd originally created the ship. He had planned to present then if Gene didn't like the first version of the ENTERPRISE he saw but since they hadn't been needed he'd filed them away for future use. These drawings provided the basis for his redesign."

Thanks a lot, Lloyd! What a very interesting tidbit. Like all good commercial artists, he had a Plan B to sell his favorite design. Wouldn't you love to see those sketches to know how closely they resemble what he did later?

Mark

 

[Bay7]

Although it's a tenuous link to what the colour might have been, one of the design sketches of a propossed engine design (in the Phase 2 book) shows MJ directing that the colour should be "a blue/green effect - other than just blue". If MJ was going down the bluey avenue, it 'could' explain the blue tint in the painting.

And as we all know, although red was a dominant colour in the lit spinning collectors, there were also many other colours too - so perhaps it's not a foregone conclusion that they would have been red.

It needed something to brighten it up though! It would have been a rather boring miniature (IMO) without lit engines. Although I'm not too sure if a blue/green effect would have looked very nice.

Mike

 

[TheYoshinator!]

^^ I really need to get ahold of one of those Phase II books sometime... I keep putting it off.

Which one specifically is the one you're quoting?

 

[Bay7]

Star Trek Phase 2: the lost series by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens.

Please forgive the crude-ness of the attached image - I've fiddled with the un-finshed PII miniature picture to see what red or blue engines look like - red looks best - blue is horrible!!!

Mike

 

[StarshipClass]

There would have been a blue lighting effect similar to TMP in the engine nacelle sides (inner and outer) as well. There is a sketch in the PII book indicating that blue-green light would have been visible through the brass 'slats' similar to the TMP engines. There's also a notation making the 'power pod' inset rather than protruding.

There's no real indication other than the one poster that I've seen of an effect at the front. The model under construction seems to contraindicate a lighting effect there. However, the delineations are clearly visible where, if there were to be a clear/frosted area for lighting, they would be.

Has anyone else found any references besides the one poster that may support a lighting effect there?

 

[StarshipClass]

BTW: Anyone else catch the groove in the top of each nacelle on the forward top halves?

 

[StarshipClass]

Okay, I have a possible reference to nacelle dome lights:

PII, p.72, top reproduced memo dated 12/6/77:

'On engline pods [sic] add lights add either a "chaser light" system, or some other light effect to act as a "heat/energy field" when the ship is in flight.'

This note is made after TPTB looked at the existing model then under construction. It is also after the notes made on the sketch made some 6 months before by Jefferies indicating the blue-green nacelle lighting effects on the sides. Therefore, it seems reasonable to assume that this was an additional lighting effect and there'd be no other likely place to put it than the engine domes. In addition, the suggestion of 'chaser light system' would also harken back to the flickering lights in the domes of the TOS engines so that I have no real doubt as to that being what was suggested.

 

[Lloyd Collins]

Thanks PerfesserCoffee, I have that book and never read that memo until now. I was looking in the magazine on STMP, and saw a promo poster that used the Phase II ship on it. The nacelle lights look blue. So I am still confused.

 

[TheYoshinator!]

Star Trek Phase 2: the lost series by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens.

Thanks for the Info!

 

[StarshipClass]

Thanks PerfesserCoffee, I have that book and never read that memo until now. I was looking in the magazine on STMP, and saw a promo poster that used the Phase II ship on it. The nacelle lights look blue. So I am still confused.

What the ship would have looked like in final form is, unless we get more definitive info, anybody's guess.

My guess is that, after reading that memo, there would have been a lighting effect in the engine domes (in addition to the TMP like effect on all four sides of the nacelles). Probably would have been some sort of chaser like effect in the domes similar to, though due to shape obviously not exactly like, the TOS effect. Perhaps, as Thomas suggested, a fluctuating effect similar to the warp core in TMP since that stayed pretty consistent from PII to TMP.

I'd go with the reddish/orange look since that was reintroduced in TNG and indicates a possible nostalgia or attempt at consistency among TPTB at the time.

 

[Bay7]

During the released construction photo's of the 1701 E, you could have been forgiven for thinking that the engines would have been un-lit.


I'm not an expert but the PII construction photo's make it look like the ship being built would be the master from which the moulds are made.

Wasn't the refit made from a vac formed shell? The saucer looks like it's already been done as the stick supporting it is causing an indentation - the secondary hull looks like it's made from clay.

If it was the final ship, I would not have looked forward to shifting it!

I know this could be discussed until the cows come home but i kninda enjoy it - it's a bit like archaeology. If only someone could get hold of the original plans/moulds.....

Has anyone thought of contacting Brick Price? I don't like his so called PII but he did have/have access to the original parts didn't he?

Mike

 

[StarshipClass]

During the released construction photo's of the 1701 E, you could have been forgiven for thinking that the engines would have been un-lit.

I think they were originally intended to be unlit at the front. There were notes at the beginning to the effect on the sides much like the TMP engine glow strips -- that being the only lit engine part as originally intended.

I think the memo six months later means they would have added an additional lighting effect at the front of the nacelles.

I'm not an expert but the PII construction photo's make it look like the ship being built would be the master from which the moulds are made.

You may be right but I'm pretty sure that was the final ship being constructed, the moulds having already been mastered, created, and used.

I know this could be discussed until the cows come home but i kninda enjoy it - it's a bit like archaeology.

Agreed. It is fascinating stuff.

If only someone could get hold of the original plans/moulds.....

Has anyone thought of contacting Brick Price? I don't like his so called PII but he did have/have access to the original parts didn't he?

'Twould be nice :hat:

 

[Lloyd Collins]

Here is some more fascinating tidbits. From Star Trek Communicator issue 133 June/July 2001,William McCullars interviewed Richard Datin model maker of TOS 1701. Roddenberry issued a memo April 7,1966 outlining the upgrade of the pilot 1701 to the production version. Besides the changes that were done he wanted to add lights to the domes on the rear of the nacells, and to have lights from the inside area panels on both nacelles that face each other. He mentioned to add more windows to make the ship look as if to have more decks. I have not compared the two versions to see if that was done.

So by the wanted changes, you could model the TOS 1701 to have the lights as if it had an upgrade after the 3rd season. I have a sheet of decals for the PL 1701 that has blue ligt panel for inside nacelles. I am thinking about using them on one ship.

Lloyd :thumbsup:

 

[ThomasModels]

For a clear shot of the 1701 Polar kit:

 

[Tholian]

Please forgive the crude-ness of the attached image - I've fiddled with the un-finshed PII miniature picture to see what red or blue engines look like - red looks best - blue is horrible!!!

Mike

I am wondering, in a book I have called Ships of Star Fleet, it shows different conversions. And one looks like this. Did they use the design from Phase 2 in this book as well? I noticed that the original Constitution class is also in this book, and in keeping up with designs, they added an updated design that is exact to the AMT/ERTL 18" Enterprise model that was produced. At least I think it is exact.