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Hi,I have a question,In the Original Star Trek films did people like the Refitted Enterprise(I Did).I have another question,Is it possible the Original T.V.Series USS Enterprise sould have been redesigned to the degree it was as seen in Star Trek The Motion Picture,would people have preferred in stayed closer in design to the Original T.V. series Enterprise.I love the Old Enterprise,it was classic but I also liked the New Enterprise as well,Thanks,Guy Schlicter.
 

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I love the original and the so-called refit. The original was simple and clean. The refit was beautiful. There are things I like better about each.
I wish they had either made it realistic for the original to have been converted to the refit (in something less than a total rebuild) or not claimed it was a refit, though.
 

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I like both designs. There's an elegance about the Enterprise from the Kirk era that the other generations failed to capture. I think the refit is beautiful, but I never did care for the look of the engines. They are boring. I've always thought they look like a vacuum cleaner attachment - the one that lets you get into tight spaces. When you are looking head on at the ship, the engines beg to have some sort of lighting effect, and these do not. Many people have said the dry-dock scene in ST:TMP is too long and boring. I think that's the best part of the movie! It's re-introducing us to our favorite character - the Enterprise. And we deserve to see her in her new glory. I agree that considering the extent of the refit, it's hard to believe it came from the same ship.
 

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theres been a ton of stuff on the web justifying the refits change of proportions. and as much as a dearly love the original, there are things about it which, in relation to the refit, look awkward. there have also been many conjectural refits by fans which are mixes between the two versions (as well as the phase 2 version)

i agree completely about the warp engines. i really missed the bussard collectors lighting effect. it said that there was a mysterious power going on in there. im glad theve returned to something like it with the e-e, the pheonix, and the nx-01
 

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I wish they'd kept the Enterprise pretty much the same as on TV except with some hyper-detailing and such. After it was destroyed in STIII, 1701A could have been something more drastic as presented in the movies.
 

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I love both ships, in fact I go back and forth as to which I like more. But both are timeless and beautiful designs. I don't really see the refit as a truely refitted version of the original, but a radically new ship based on a very similar framework. But who knows, maybe in the 23rd Century, refitting will mean something different than it does now. ;)
 

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Well then again some people do consider the Refit to be an all new Enterprise Class versus a refit. I think it was mr scotts guide or maybe the old fasa stuff that insinuates that once the refit was done they decided to reclassify it as a whole new class because of the complete redesign.
 

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Someone should do special editions of the first three movies replacing the movie version 1701 with a hyper-detailed (Jein version?) TOS 1701. THAT would be cool!
 

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I do believe it was meant as a straight refit. The differences in proportions just looked nice to them, they weren't trying to justify it to the superfans! :) You ever watch that show Pimp My Ride on MTV? This was sort of like Pimp My Starship.
 

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Richard Compton said:
I do believe it was meant as a straight refit. The differences in proportions just looked nice to them, they weren't trying to justify it to the superfans! :) You ever watch that show Pimp My Ride on MTV? This was sort of like Pimp My Starship.
I agree. The refit used idealized proportions from the original ship.

However, it would be interesting to see a retro-fitted version of the TOS 1701 using the exact proportions inherent in the refit.
 

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"Pimp My Starship." :lol:

I contend that Jefferies intended the Phase II ship to be a true refit. His drawings have some very interesting points in common with his prevous design.

There is a section view showing deck structure that looks almost to have been traced from his original TOS section view -- right down to the turbolift pathways. And the primary hull looks like the original is still inside it. The flat AMT-style lip on the underside begins at just about the point where the old hull diameter ends -- making it look like an extension added on to the old hull. The top surface contour has been reworked to the point where it would require some rebuilding, but the bottom contour looks pretty close to MJ's drawings of the TOS-E. The dorsal and engines are, of course, totally new. The secondary hull is the same length and appears only to have been made fatter about the middle. The interior hangar deck is virtually unchanged from the series.

This was the state of things when MJ left the project. After the transition to a feature motion picture, Jefferies' design was revised by Andy Probert. This is where the continuity was broken when he began scaling the components to get what he perceived as a more pleasing balance. He made a deliberate decision to change it so it couldn't be a true refit, even thought the script said otherwise. Today we are left with no way to truly reconcile the "Refit" with the original ship.

This has always bothered me. As nice as the cosmetic refinements he introduced are (and I think they are great), it wasn't necessary to make it "a whole new ship." Most of us like to think of it as actually being Kirk's original ship, not a whole new vessel with maybe a nut or bolt of the original for old times sake.

I think they should have relooped some of the lines in the Director's Cuts of the various movies:

KIRK: "Scotty, they gave her back to... er-- another ship of the same name to me."

SULU (beaming with pride): "Any chance to go aboard The... er, a ship named Enterprise."

Mark
 

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Richard Compton said:
I do believe it was meant as a straight refit. The differences in proportions just looked nice to them, they weren't trying to justify it to the superfans! :) You ever watch that show Pimp My Ride on MTV? This was sort of like Pimp My Starship.
Hahahahaha! Good one :thumbsup:
 

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Poseidon said:
There's an elegance about the Enterprise from the Kirk era that the other generations failed to capture. I think the refit is beautiful, but I never did care for the look of the engines. They are boring. I've always thought they look like a vacuum cleaner attachment - the one that lets you get into tight spaces.

LMAO. Vacuum cleaner.... :lol:
I agree with you on this. They looked very dull, and I always liked the thought of the front lighting up like you see im most ST craft. Gives it a look of power. On the old "E" the engine nacelles were awsum and the way they had them lit and worked made the ship. the newer ones are great as well, but now that the CGI has come into play, they have that Cload effect that ticks me off in trying to duplicate in a model. They look look great, don't get me wrong. But wouldn't it be cool to have a starship design showed on TV that had the original rotating nacelles with the blinking lights in the back? A newer or different design. Maybe even in the TNG era? :cool:
 

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I'm willing to play the "suspension of disbelief" game far enough to allow the refit from ST 1-3 to be a completely reconstructed version of the Big E. It isn't entirely without precedent even today - look at the Navy's Iowa-class battleships as originally constructed, as compared to their current look. They have been modified all over the place, including some hull reconstruction.

Starfleet may have simply found it to be cheaper to dismantle and severly rebuild the Constitution-class ships than to start over with a new design, especially if they were in the early planning stages of a whole new class of heavy cruiser, such as the Excelsior-class.
 

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I think the lack of a glowing Bussard on the TMP E was a result of time constraints and the indecision on how to resolve the new look. As can be seen in MJ's Phase II designs he had intended it to glow there as it did on the TOS E.

It just simply glowing there may have seemed boring in their eyes- if it didn't have some action to it and simply glowed. Even the new dish had some action to it. It was suposed to transition from a TOS-like Gold to it's final TMP-Blue (It just didn't read well the way they ended up showing it.). With the TOS Bussard it was spherical so it was easy to fit and spin some light effects behind it and make it interesting. However, after they may have not had enough time to decide on what action to do for the non-spherical new bussard, they abandoned it for time constraints.

After all, just look at TNG. The most they thought of was twin static lights and aren't nearly as interesting, visually, as the TOS's bussards.

I kinda like the grill designs though. If it had always been a glow there, there wouldn't be the uniqueness I LOVE and so many others LOVE about the TMP and TOS Movie Era Designs. And since we are here salivating over the most sought after design (the upcoming TMP-Refit) I have to say... I think, in the end, they got it completely right. :tongue:
 

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Andy Probert intended the D's Buzzards to have similar lighting effects to the original Enterprise miniature's power domes. He was disappointed that ILM dropped the ball and merely placed two static lights into the front of each nacelle on the 6' model.

My model will have them.
 

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TheYoshinator! said:
I think the lack of a glowing Bussard on the TMP E was a result of time constraints and the indecision on how to resolve the new look. As can be seen in MJ's Phase II designs he had intended it to glow there as it did on the TOS E.

It just simply glowing there may have seemed boring in their eyes- if it didn't have some action to it and simply glowed. Even the new dish had some action to it. It was suposed to transition from a TOS-like Gold to it's final TMP-Blue (It just didn't read well the way they ended up showing it.).
No, the decision on the engines was a very deliberate one (stupid in my view), absolutely locked in nearly two years prior to the film's release. Richard Taylor (no relation to the Richard Taylor at WETA now) was Robert Abel's art director, and he was in charge (over Probert) on the redesign from a time (roughly dec 77) BEFORE "in thy image" scaled up into TMP. He specifically took charge of certain areas, especially the engines, so they reflect EXACTLY what he wanted (except for the changes that were added after Abel's removal, mainly the spotlights.)

I dont' know where you've heard about the dish supposedly changing color in the same shot, but that's a new one on me. It is certainly two different colors in the film, but nobody I've talked with has ever copped to WHY that is the case (though if you figure warp power being online as being what makes the dish blue, the continuity holds up about 75% of the time.)
 

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^^Further, IIRC, the MJ plans had no place for a glowing effect on the front of the nacelles since they were plain and had no grilles.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the only time in movie history where the re-design was actually an improvement over the original. Don't get me wrong, I love the original series design. But I have to give the nod to the refit when it comes to which version I prefer.

Oops, I just remembered the Sci-Fi Channel's Battlestar Galactica. Okay, maybe the first time in movie history? :confused:
 
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