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Discussion Starter #1
notch below steering wheel on dashboard, larger steering wheel and rounded bottom right on firewall

no notch below steering wheel on dashboard, smaller steering wheel and straight bottom right on firewall

different size seats, top picture taller and thinner, bottom picture shorter and wider

different size tow hooks
 

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This casting is in almost all transitional /RW collectors top 5 favourites.I had the chance to buy a near mint dark blue one with DARK blue seats for $15 last year and decided not to :freak: feel regret now but at the time there was too much else to buy at that toyfair.....
Does Mountain have the light blue with blue seats or dark blue with white seats to share? I have E,F and H(or is it I) boxes for this model - it is one of my top 3 Lesney of all time so i went for the boxes....G has eluded me but it should be an easy one to get
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
no dark blue with white seats, that is a tough one. do you have a picture of the light blue with blue seats?

there are shade differences in the blue and white interiors.
i try to look at the bottom behind the wheels to see if they are not faded.


off white and white interiors

there is also a louver variation with all colors of blue. top model with wide louvers and bottom model with narrow louvers. there are also different wheel wells too. it dosen't show up too well in this picture

a tray of isos :)

some with their boxes. also have a few rw packed away :(
 

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Lovely photographs :thumbsup: THANKYOU!
This car belongs to famous collector Mark Curtis, with a closeup of its rivit -it was discovered in USA in 2005.the only other one recorded was sold at Vectis auctionhouse in 1998.the fact that these cars are ultra rare and in the hands of high profile collectors does open up the possibility that these are factory specials made by employees for collectors back in 1971-2


 

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these photos were all taken by members of another forum- here is the rare white seat car

The lightest powder blue car with the dot wheels is the final late 1970s Japanese issue, and then the doors were cast shut for a huge number of multicolored super GT issues


And finally, this casting is almost as wonderful as the ISO, and it does come in HTF variations too
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
thanks for the information. it’s nice discussing matchbox with you.

i guess anything is possible. it would be nice to know the history of the hard to find models that were discovered in the past 10 to 15 years. there were some that had connections and would have employees make some nice lunchtime specials for them. when ego and greed took over and they were passed off as models that were intended for worldwide distribution. luckily some were caught at the time and not too many were rip off.

that is why i will always give credit to harold colpitts for trying to make a stand against these type of models. sometimes he had to make a stand all by himself (others had money to made off of these models). he wrote about the #13 reverse color dodge wrecker in the early seventies in which some lesney employees were selling for $15.00. he also helped identify many basement produced models along with many matchbox and lledo models that had labels applied by private individuals.

some pre productions were also attempted to be passed off as worldwide models, some of these were caught and some models nobody wants to believe they were pre productions. the yesteryear line was historic for having these type of models.

the lamborghini miura is a fine model.
here are some sf with their boxes. i never really collected the box variations. most of the major variations came out in blister packs before the boxed issue. one has the red base. i have the different shades of red bases, i’ll try to show them later. also white and off white interiors.

A nice rw version

some of the sf, greenish gold to gold. there is also an off white and white interior.

the sf hood variation. model on the left has a longer raised center line on hood, slightly different ribs on hood and the headlights are higher. it also had a lighter interior shade.

If you look down the back window of the superfast models one has a red wheel clip and the other has a yellow wheel clip.
 

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The Moutain said:
that is why i will always give credit to harold colpitts for trying to make a stand against these type of models. sometimes he had to make a stand all by himself (others had money to made off of these models). he wrote about the #13 reverse color dodge wrecker in the early seventies in which some lesney employees were selling for $15.00. he also helped identify many basement produced models along with many matchbox and lledo models that had labels applied by private individuals.

some pre productions were also attempted to be passed off as worldwide models, some of these were caught and some models nobody wants to believe they were pre productions. the yesteryear line was historic for having these type of models.

the lamborghini miura is a fine model.

A nice rw version
This Lamborghini is very beautiful - Does it have the cast engine that was fitted to most RW issues? A yellow SF pre-pro with white seats was used by lesney for advertsing purposes in 1969-70 -the yellow SF that made the shops had only red seats as far as I have read -never seen any of this trio of combinations in the metal or the bronze paint or the red interior with gold/bronze. But i have seen red-orange and pink baseplates on the wide wheeled gold issues and dot wheels on the final gold Japanese late 1970s issue which were the green-gold shade.
Today a reverse color wrecker is worth more than 15 times the price of a common issue :cool: I have heard that there are 2 runs of reverse color wreckers- the genuine factory pre-pros with a slim tail boom which was thickened before normal production began and the lunchtime specials which are standard castings.Even though not sold in the shops they were made in the Lesney factory using Lesney materials which does make them desirable - the reverse color pre-pros & box art so I have read was rejected by BP as too dull hence the reversal of colors to the familiar model that we own.
The original factory employees who supplied unusual models and the dealers/collectors who handled them in the 1970s are mostly dead or dying off now so these internet forums represent the last chance to uncover the stories and authenticity of available rare items.Most active collectors today online are the generation who had these as toys and started serious collecting in the last 15 years -i hope more old timers will share their knowledge -Jack Odell is still alive as far as I know -I hope he will record his experiences for posterity :wave:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
pre productions are a nice way to see the evolution of a model. what premium if any should be placed on them. a lot were sent out to dealers as a preview. were they then intended to be sold? or if they were taken out of the factory, did they have or not have lesney's approval? how much are they worth?

any lunchtime specials or privately produced models i personally wouldn't put any value on them
i occasionally see a few names from the seventies that dealt with these models.
i'm sure they had many friends, if you had the money.


don't have a bad thing to say about jack odell. never heard anything bad either. i really enjoyed the lledo line. must have over 1000 lledos from the early eighties to the early nineties. all packed away right now :(
 

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Genuine factory specials are worth whatever a collector will pay.The only Lesneys that are pocket money toys now in my mind are the fakes of rare issues and prepros that certain ebay dealers offer, like silver no 12 LandRovers-fakes are not worth what collectors will pay thinking that they are genuine - repainted cream no 62 Cougars are a prime example of the damage to the hobby caused by greed and fraud.
I have only heard good things about Jack Odell too- and I hope he will write a book to delight the collectors who have grown up with his toys.I dont have any LLedos accept for some of the 1/43 Vanguard range of cars which are well made.I think the EFE brand of British 1/76 buses was also started by Jack Odell -I have a few of these too
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i know what you mean about whatever a collector will pay. which is frightening at times. there is just too much uncertainty about some models that i would proceed with caution.

it really is a shame that some have to resort to ripping off people to make money. :( there are some fine collectors out there that love this hobby and some just need to ruin it. somebody that is just starting out in any hobby and gets burned might never give come back to the hobby.

a nice picture of jack odell

and fred bronner
 

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I have only seen old Jack Odell in photos -as a young man he has more than a passing likeness to Charlie Chaplin ;) ,and that moustache looks hand drawn! Fred Bonner looks like a happyman -did you ever meet him personally what with your 1970s serious collecting connections?
I do think that many collectors pay silly sums of money for old toys, and that is why cheats and frauds are out there.I have no plans to ever pay more than $30 for any Lesney 1-75 series and I prefer to buy them face to face at markets, almost never buy Lesney from online auctions -big bucks items will be in my virtual collection only :hat:
 

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Great stuff that I have never seen before.It is not easy today to discover what collectors knew back in the early 1970s when these models were new
 

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Here are my Isos - the dark blue seats car arrived today, and the white interior dark blue car and the blue interior light blue car have swapped wheels and seats - no doubt the rivits have been tamperd wityh but these 2 cars were not mint and now I enjoy them more than ever before .This thread inspired me to do the interior swaps this morning, because finding affordable examples that Lesney rivited together is nearly impossible for me,and the cars involved were in my trade box anyway but are now prized in my collection as they should be :dude:
The mint RW car missing a door and a tyre is the Lesney supplied original occupant of the E box, unsold defective shop stock until i acquired it last summer
 

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A friend with a great camera visited tonight, so I was able to photograph the G Box that arrived last thursday in exchange for my spare F box

8 days in February brought 3 main additions to fill big gaps my collection - these 3 VW1600TLs on the right - the car on the left with box is from when I was 10 - I chose the pink wide wheel over the dark purple that was in store the day I bought mine and until 2007 had wished I had picked the purple instead :hat:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
nice group of iso's and vw's :thumbsup: what a difference a picture can make

nice interior swap, if they were to be traded why not have a little fun with them :)
both color vw's are nice, a long time to think about which one you bought back then :)

it's nice when somebody looks a matchbox and says i remember that from years ago.

nice lineup of busses in the background too :thumbsup:
 

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The Moutain said:
nice group of iso's and vw's :thumbsup: what a difference a picture can make

nice interior swap, if they were to be traded why not have a little fun with them :)
both color vw's are nice, a long time to think about which one you bought back then :)

it's nice when somebody looks a matchbox and says i remember that from years ago.

nice lineup of busses in the background too :thumbsup:
I look forward to finding the spare cash to buy my own camera with a macro for crystal clear closeups this summer :thumbsup: - my spare cash goes on new additions with the focus on stuff I remember from childhood.
The biggest dilema in my childhood was which car to buy next given that I only had money for 3 Matchbox/Playart/Corgi Juniors or 1 1/43 Corgi each month. HOW MANY READING THIS POST REMEMBER making these choices???

Even when I knew which car I wanted sometimes the stores were sold out and another had to be chosen - these tough ;) childhood choices really stand out in my memory which is why over the past 10 years I have been building up the good collection left from my childhood .I think collectors favourite items are rather evenly split between the childhood thing and something connected to adult driving habits......................
Lucky for me my wife lets me display some buses and the remains of my father´s 1947-50 Dinky collection in the living room ( no kids yets so no risk with the toys...) - ever since I was 10 years old I have put old London buses first in the hobby stakes - a neighbour has a real 1:1 Routemaster (like Lesney regular wheels 5d) for his catering business which he lets me drive sometimes :wave:
Any more great transitional Kings to share Mountain????
 
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