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My TOS shuttlecraft (cont.)....

13K views 57 replies 17 participants last post by  Warped9 
#1 ·
It's been awhile, but I'm trying to get back on track here.

Firstly, a recap of where we left off:













 
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#3 ·


The last image was where I was last, beginning to detail the between hulls mechanical guts of the vehicle.

Besides real life intervening the main problem I had with the work is that I wasn't satisfied with the detailing I was doing. I'm pretty satisfied with the mechanicals in the aft part of the ship but most everything forward of that left be cold.

I eventually reasoned that the best thing to do was to draw up the inner whole and structural spaceframe as seperate components, layer them together and then I'd have a much clearer idea of what should be visible in my various cross sections.

And that leads me to this new render.



I apologize for the slow pace, but as this proceeds I'm doing my best to figure out and consider where things should go.

Referring to "The Galileo Seven." When McCoy and Mears are throwing stuff overboard we see a large cylindrical object as well as a large and shiny cubed shaped object. It's anyone's guess what these things were, but we could assume that as they got between bulkheads in the aft cabin they were prying out equipment from there. To that end I'm trying to include objects that are roughly that size and shape to be seen between the hulls. My present assumption is that they may be related to the waste management system and/or raw materials reprocessing or even the food/beverage systems.

Another tidbit. When Scotty elects to drain the phasers as a supplemental fuel supply he's not accessing the systems from the aft access panels outside the ship but from a floor access panel in the main cabin. Although they're using the word "fuel" what they really must mean is energy. That tells me that there must be power conduits running under the cabin from aft to fore and one of which allows Scotty to drain the phasers into the craft's power system. It's possible that Scotty is doing it from inside because he can't access the power system from outside as it's either hard to get to and/or he doesn't have the appropriate equipment at hand to do it that way.

It's tidbits like those above that I try to use as clues to help me decide where to put things.


And in the interim here's a little something else to ponder for down the road.

 
#7 ·
There's a fellow who hosts a website featuring all manner of blueprints from fans and pros (like FJ) alike although there is some question as to whether he actually got permission from everyone to display their work. He contacted me about a year ago to ask about hosting this project. I politely declined and informed him that this is still a work in progress and that I have my own plans for my work and how I'll share it.

A little more specifically. When I'm done I'll be putting together something of a PowerPoint and Keynote presentation that will feature the drawings along with accompanying music and sound f/x. I wish to add that the drawings will be of sufficient resolution for computer monitor display yet not sufficient enough to produce acceptably sized prints from. This will be one form for the final product and available as a free download.

The other form will include the above as well as all the drawings in resolution suitable for printing as 8x11 or 11x17in. sheets. This set will be available only to those who contact me directly and express interest. Also, there are some on this forum who I'll be giving a set out of gratitude for their great help and insights during this project.
 
#9 ·
I always wondered where McCoy and Boma came from in G7 to tell Spock they were ready to bury the dead dudes. I thought there must be some emergency hatch, now I know they crawled up thru the toilet! lol! :D

Thanks for these! It's an exceptional amount of work. Congrats. I'm guessing you are referring to LCars site of blueprints?
 
#10 ·
I always wondered where McCoy and Boma came from in G7 to tell Spock they were ready to bury the dead dudes. I thought there must be some emergency hatch, now I know they crawled up thru the toilet! lol! :D:
This is a good example of the director not taking any of this seriously. The scene was shot in a way that did indeed suggest an alternative exit and/or that there was a helluva lot more room back there then there actually was supposed to be. Unless of course they had already cremated the remains by phaser and just had to bury the ashes. :freak:


I've had ideas about the spaceframe almost from the beginning when I decided to depict the guts between hulls. Indeed within the hour I'll probably start sketching out some of my ideas.

The spaceframe meeting the exterior hull should be relatively easy. But moving inward then gets tricky and that's why I chose to draw out the life shell to get a better sense of where the structural frame can attach to the inner hull.

I also have a couple of other ideas, one of which Timo on the TBBS gave me. I'd been trying to figure out where to put ventilation ducts and life support systems when he suggested the overhead lighting panel could also house life support vents. Then it hit me: In the 23rd century you certainly shouldn't need an oversized hanging structure for interior lighting such as we see onscreen, but what if much of the life support systems were housed in the box like frame that surrounds the overhead lighting panel? It's not only space effective but it's also readily accessible in terms of maintenance.

Secondly if you look at the interior you can see four wall panels on each side that look rather detachable. That could very well be if you need to swap out equipment for mission specific gear or to access the 'tween hulls mechanicals. It also saves me the trouble of trying to fashion some contrived overhead storage bins.

Just some thoughts.
 
#13 ·
Inching forward....



You can see Scotty's access hatch as well as a larger one in the aft cabin on the underside view. Also visible are the port and starboard field equipment storage bins, such as the one that holds the hand phasers on the port side.
 
#15 · (Edited)
To be clear the inner hull isn't completely finished as I have a few details I still want to add, but it's near enough to complete that you can see what it will look like. My initial intention had been to draw these up purely as reference for my cross sections, but I've put enough work into and it looks rather interesting that I may include them in the final set of plans as a supplement. Ditto with the spaceframe.

Note the two box like objects as well as the small rectangular object with the tapered top next to them at the aft end on the port side profile. In size and shape they're meant to resemble objects the Galileo crew was jettisoning overboard in TG7. I cannot specify exactly what they are or what they're supposed to do, but I'm speculating they are connected to my waste management system. And I am trying for some authenticity. I must also add that this was a bit of a clue to my speculated gross vehicle weight for the shuttlecraft. If after ripping out the aft bulkhead and tossing out assorted equipment they hadn't yet shed 500 lbs. then I figure the vehicle really must be made of futuristic lightweight materials.



 
#16 ·
But it does highlight the fact that Jeffries might not have been thinking everything through from Day One yet, and might have been forced to compromise a lot after the exterior layout was approved by his bosses.

Timo Saloniemi
This quote is from another thread, but it is on point in both projects.

When I digest the technical references in TG7 I find things I don't think make sense within the context of what is established in TOS throughout the series. Such as draining the phasers for fuel (energy) and yet later firing boosters as if that energy had actually been solid or liquid fuel--I find this very odd.

Furthermore, I'm sure MJ was aware of the size inconsistencies between the fullsize interior and exterior shuttlecraft mockups, but it's still strange seeing things like what seems a bottomless space under the floor seen through Scotty's access panel.

Of course, I understand the practical realities (compromises) of the situation due to '60s era TV production with bulky cameras and no handycams to film in tight spaces, but it's still weird. And, of course, it leads to the inevitable disparities between drawing an integrated "real" shuttlecraft and what we saw onscreen.

I have but one detail left to add to my inner hull drawings then it's on to drawing the spaceframe beginning this weekend. I generally like how they came out and I've included some fun little detailing that trecknical fans will appreciate.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Done.

I've only got to come up with some notations for each sheet. The annotations will be regarding capabilities and construction.
My general idea is that the inner hull is composed of thin multiple layers. The innermost layer is the one we see inside, preformed molds of advanced polycarbonate or plastisteel (sounds more TOS). The next layer outward is thermal insulation. Then comes a semi fluid hull sealant that flows into a breach upon reacting to sudden changes in atmospheric pressure and then solidifies as a temporary plug. Finally is another layer of plastisteel. The spaceframe and outer hull are made of duranium alloys, of course.




In case someone doesn't know, GNDN stands for Goes Nowhere Does Nothing and LCBU means Looks Cool But Useless.

The two large boxes on the starboard side above the LCBU panels are storage for emergency life support suits. From the inside the upper wall looks it's made up of seperate panels. Two of these panels can pop outward and slide forward much like the side door of a minivan to allow access to the lifesuit storage bins. The control consoles on those panels can remain in place as the panels are slid open, or they can be easily removed and unplugged just as they can be when the ship is refit for a specific mission.

Of course the swing out bin on the port side holds phasers while the bin on the starboard side holds communicators and a couple of tricorders.


Coming accross this image in Randy Cooper's shuttlecraft thread has given me cause to consider tinkering with the detailing on the underside of my shuttlecraft drawings. It could give me a smidgen more room under the floor for mechanical bits.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I hope this is de right place.

Try this.




And this is my last take on how this project will pan out. Emboldened items are completed.

Class F and H Shuttlecraft Plans:
Sheet 0 – Starfleet Shuttlecraft Cover Page
Sheet 1 – Class F Shuttlecraft Port Elevation
Sheet 2 – Class F Shuttlecraft Starboard Elevation
Sheet 3 – Class F Shuttlecraft Bow Elevation
Sheet 4 – Class F Shuttlecraft Aft Elevation
Sheet 5 – Class F Shuttlecraft Top Plan
Sheet 6 – Class F Shuttlecraft Bottom Plan

Sheet 7 – Class F Shuttlecraft Port Cutaway
Sheet 8 – Class F Shuttlecraft Starboard Cutaway
Sheet 9 – Class F Shuttlecraft Bow Cutawaay
Sheet 10 – Class F Shuttlecraft Aft Cutaway
Sheet 11 – Class F Shuttlecraft Deck Plan
Sheet 12 – Class F Shuttlecraft Ceiling Plan
Sheet 13 – Class F Shuttlecraft History & Specifications
Sheet 14 – Class F Shuttlecraft Artist’s Showcase
Sheet 15 – Class H Shuttlecraft Port Elevation
Sheet 16 – Class H Shuttlecraft Starboard Elevation
Sheet 17 – Class H Shuttlecraft Bow Elevation
Sheet 18 – Class H Shuttlecraft Aft Elevation
Sheet 19 – Class H Shuttlecraft Top Plan
Sheet 20 – Class H Shuttlecraft Bottom Plan

Sheet 21 – Class H Shuttlecraft Port Cutaway
Sheet 22 – Class H Shuttlecraft Starboard Cutaway
Sheet 23 – Class H Shuttlecraft Bow Cutawaay
Sheet 24 – Class H Shuttlecraft Aft Cutaway
Sheet 25 – Class H Shuttlecraft Deck Plan
Sheet 26 – Class H Shuttlecraft Ceiling Plan
Sheet 27 – Class H Shuttlecraft History & Specifications
Sheet 28 – Class H Shuttlecraft Artist’s Showcase
Sheet 29 – U.S.S. Enterprise Shuttlecraft Complement
Sheet 30 – Starflight Regimes
Sheet 31 – Starfleet Shuttlecraft Project Notes


Supplemental Sheet 1 – Class F/H Shuttlecraft Inner Hull Primary Views #1
Supplemental Sheet 2 – Class F/H Shuttlecraft Inner Hull Primary Views #2

Supplemental Sheet 3 – Class F/H Shuttlecraft Spaceframe Primary Views #1
Supplemental Sheet 4 – Class F/H Shuttlecraft Spaceframe Primary Views. #2
Supplemental Sheet 5 – Shuttlecraft Galileo Photo Enhanced Image*
Supplemental Sheet 6 – Shuttlecraft Copernicus Photo Enhanced Image*

Actually I have quite a bit of the other sheets done as well, but they're incomplete as I'm making revisions to them because I elected to draw out the inner hull and spaceframe for the sake of more credibility in the cross sections.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I've been following RedSpar's progress (on the TBBS) regarding his take on MJ' early concept for the TOS shuttlecraft. It's fascinating even though I might disagree with some of his interpretations.

But it's gotten me to thinking down the road when I've gotten the Class F and H and then the TAS ships done and out of the way.

I've extrapolated from some of MJ's early concepts and even basic sketches before and my approach is not to take them too literally. By that I mean is that an early concept is not a finished design. As you flesh it out you find better solutions to ideas and as it evolves a more realized form takes shape.

To that end down the road I'll be tackling two of MJ's early ideas on the shuttlecraft. I'll adapt his intial concepts without allowing myself to be constrained by early solutions and evolve the designs into something that should hopefully look at home in the TOS universe, or more particularly the pre TOS era.




But back to present day matters. I've been pondering the antideluvian looking support braces that the fullsize mockup has under the stabilizers. They were needed, no doubt, to help support and strengthen the structure of the mockup. Of course I rejected them based on the thought that they looked wholly out of place and created even more aerodynamic drag on a vehicle design with little in the way of aerodynamics to begin with. But within the TOS universe I also reasoned that if they can build a massive starship with huge engines affixed to the hull by seemingly too slender support pylons without any propblem whatsoever in terms of structural stress, than something like the shuttlecraft's thin stabilizer and pylons should be a snap.

That said I'm pondering an idea of beefing up the structure under the stabilizers anyway. I've an idea on how it could be done in such a way that it wouldn't be visible or apparent unless you looked right under the stablizers, much as the mockup's braces weren't very apparent except from certain angles from the front or rear. And my idea would be even less apparent.

Any thoughts?
 
#22 · (Edited)
You know for about two years I've been rendering my drawings with Illustrator CS and Photoshop CS (I'd love CS4, but I can't afford it) and yet I've never exploited a portion of what these programs are capable of.

Last night while I was working I did a little casual exploring and came across some other tools and capabilities that I had never realized were so readily at hand and can make my life so much easier. I swung back and forth between excitement over being able to do certain things more effectively and thinking myself so stupid for not having found and used those tools for so long.

After a tiring, frustrating, bummer day yesterday it was nice to experience something positive.

One of the things it might help me with is in terms of scale. I might be able to stretch inches here and there to gain some added interior space without increasing the size of the exterior. I'm mostly concerned with cabin length and height rather than width. Every little bit helps.

And I'm pretty sure that I can add some extra substance under the stabilizers that will be unobtrusive and not look like an add-on.
 
#23 ·
What this project has made really apparent to me is that all three versions of the shuttlecraft on TOS were production compromises and quite distinct from each other. I can understand the fullsize mockup being constructed the way it was, but why didn't the miniature "flying" model more closely resemble the 22ft. mockup?
 
#24 ·
One of the biggest discrepencies between the flying miniature and the full size mockup is the underside detail. I wracked my brain trying to understand how they could get the small model's underside the way it is while it looks so different on the fullsize mockup. It's quite likely they just flattened out the shape of the small model's underside without considering the implications in regards to how it compared to the fullsize mockup.

I could replicate the small model, but it would mean distorting the shapes of the bottom and aft and possibly bow as well, and then it would mean losing under-the-deck space inside the craft. And so I'll just tick with what I have presently.

That said, though, I am going back and correcting some things I feel I could do better on the sheets I've already completed.

Now, I've a question for Phil Broad and all you other learned treknologists out there: were the braces under the stabilizers put there just to strengthen the fullsize mockup's structural support or were they intended as part of the vehicle's design all along? I ask because the small flying miniature wouldn't have needed such braces and yet it does have them anyway.
 
#25 ·
http://cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/...craftConstruction/Galileo_Construction_04.jpg

Note the pic in the above link. Firstly we saw no sign of those stabilizer braces. They might not yet have been added, but at this point the construct doesn't seem to need them. Secondly we can see a longitudinal brace at the top of the aft landing strut assembly running across the back. I'm wondering if this is the same piece that's visible inside the rear access panel Scotty's working on at one point in "The Galileo Seven." If so then neat because I wanted to include that as part of my spaceframe. I may also make some effort to replicate some of what we see in that open access panel in regards to trying to depict the technical guts in that area. I find the above pic as well as others also interesting in regards to working out my spaceframe design.

Now it will be awhile before I post something else I've been tweaking: detailing corrections on my already completed sheets. I now have better looking, more correct hull font for the ship's markings. I've made nacelle detail corrections. On the Class F I've moved the nacelles a smidgen forward to be more correct with the fullsize mockup, resulting in the access step plate being more properly aligned with the centre of the access hatch. I've redesigned the aft landing plate to look something more like the original yet still somewhat more streamlined. On the Class F the most notable changes are in regards to the nacelles in that I've made them slightly less tapered and slightly smaller in length and diameter. The result is the Class H's warp engines now look better proportioned with the rest of the ship and along with the now slightly more raked front support pylons the ship looks more like my initial concept.

Finally regarding vehicle size. New calculations to get the interior I want to fit properly within the exterior as I've designed it means the ship may grow in overall size by perhaps six inches in length. I find that a minor compromise to get everything to fit together. And although the Class H will also get a smidgen bigger the new shorter nacelles should easily offset the marginal gain in overall size.

If this all sounds like nitpicking, well, it is. I'd rather correct these things now then when I've finished everything.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Okay, so it's not quite awhile...unless your very impatient.

Here's a quick peek at my revised shuttlecraft. You may need a fine eye to spot what I've changed, but there are about seven or so changes on each design...so far.



One thing I've gone back to is reworking the original aft landing strut of the Class F as the forward landing strut of the Class H. Overall I just think it looks better than what I had done before.

There is an oddity to these designs that may not be immediately apparent even in cross sections: to get the interior to line up with the longitudinal centerline of the main hull it will have to be tilted forward at .326 degrees. This would hardly be noticeable in a real ship and particularly with an artificial gravity system at work during flight. Furthermore when the ships are landed they will be tilted back very slightly at... .326 degrees from the horizontal, so the forward angle of the interior cabin is effectively cancelled out.

And I just can't decide whether to keep the stabilizer braces. They just look so damned odd and out of place. It must be noted that my tweaking of the design has resulted in stabilizers that are about three times thicker where they meet the main hull than those on the fullsize mockup. I think it's safe to say that the attachment points there have already been beefed up.
 
#27 ·
I would like to make a suggestion, which I think others are probably thinking about as well... It would be helpful if the drawings of the shuttle shown at its original length of 22 feet were noted as such. You've done a terrific amount of work, absolutely excellent work, but just providing a scale on the drawing doesn't really do the trick when viewing them online and trying to figure out exactly which version is which. I've read through all the posts in this thread and I am aware that the shuttle with the forward landing gear is the largest of your redesigns. But there is no notation on the drawings of the shuttle in its original configuration that indicate if it is the slightly enlarged version or the true-to-the-original version.

Either that or I missed something!

Scott
 
#28 ·
The image below is when I was contemplating a 29ft. shuttlecraft.


And here's to give you another perspective.


When designing the H my concept was trying to imagine how far I could deviate from the F while trying to remain reasonably affordable in terms of fullsize mockup construction or alteration if TOS had had a fourth season and/or the budgetary resources to allow for a shuttlecraft variant.

In terms of designation I was originally going to call my design a Class F3 rather than H. Or perhaps Class G because it's really just a mofified/tuned up version of the F. At this point I'm still not settled on it.

I'm still wanting some insight into whether those stabilizer braces were intended as part of the design from the beginning or were there merely for necessity. Where's Phil Broad these days?
 
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