A question about Where No Man has Gone Before

[Guy Schlicter]

Hi,In the Original Star Trek,how long before the Enterprises 5 year mission,did Star Treks Second Pilot take place.Also how long before the time of Where no man has gone before did Kirk assume command of the Enterprise.I also like the differences in the Bridge from Where No man has gone Before,it makes the Enterprise feel like it has been around a while and has some history to it and the Bridge looks good too,Thanks,Guy Schlicter.

[JGG1701]

I think I know that answer but I'm not 100% on it.
Mr. Warped9 if you please.................

[idman]

If I remember correctly kirk took over right after pike and the talos incident. Since pike got promoted to fleet status to keep talos hush hush, I would say about 2 years

[Griffworks]

Actually, "The Cage" couldn't possibly have been only 2 years before Kirk takes command. Main pointer is that Spock is much younger than to allow for just two years. I'm fairly certain I've read that "The Cage" took place about 11 years prior to "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (WNMHGB). I believe this is backed up by dialogue in "The Menagerie".

Kirk likely took command only a short time before WNMHGB, but there's nothing solid on that, either. Had to have been at least a couple fo months for both captain and crew to become as accustomed to each other as they had obviously become in that episode. Most likely, due to events in WNMHGB, the damage that was sustained to Enterprise necessitated a refit of some sort, likely upgrading the "lithium" needed for engine performance to dilithium. At this time, Doc Bryce left and McCoy came on board and they got a new bridge. A couple more months likely had to pass between WNMHGB and "The Man Trap" (next production episode, I think?) for Kirk to become accustomed to McCoy and vice-versa.

On my comment about the bridge, there's a Treknological theory that states that the bridges of at most Federation starships are of a modular design variety. This accounts for the differences between some seasons/movies of the different Trek's in which a major change might take place in details of hte bridge.

Just my thoughts on the subject. I'm not "Warped", but I like Trek and Treknology, so hope that doesn't bug anyone....

[John P]

Roddenberry once said that Kirk had been in command for about a year when the series started.

The Mike Okuda chronology, if you care to follow its timeline, puts "The Cage" in 2254, Kirk's assignment to the ship in 2264, and the events of "Where No Man..." in 2265

[Warped9]

When The Making Of Star Trek was published in the summer of 1968 Kirk's bio said he'd been in command about four years. So (fictionally) that would put Kirk assuming command perhaps about two years prior to the 1st season.

Now if we make an assumption that the ship in WNMHGB is reasonably similar to how it appeared with Pike in "The Cage" then we may assume Kirk assumed command prior to the ship being refit and looking rather different during the series.

And this sounds rather credible. Pike is promoted to Fleet Captain and Kirk replaces him assuming command of the Enterprise. Next Kirk commands the ship on a handful of missions (including the events in WNMHGB) before the ship pulls in for a scheduled refit. Now proven Kirk with the refit E is dispatched upon a 5-year mission of deep space exploration.

So I would hazard that the events of WNMHGB happened between 1 to 2 years before the first early episodes of the show's 1st season.

Thats how I figure it anyway.

Transfer of command...


Spock visits with Fleet Captain Pike on the eve of the refit Enterprise departing upon her 5-year voyage...

[idman]

wooohooooo what do I win that was a lucky guess

[PerfesserCoffee]

Originally Posted by Griffworks

Actually, "The Cage" couldn't possibly have been only 2 years before Kirk takes command. Main pointer is that Spock is much younger than to allow for just two years. I'm fairly certain I've read that "The Cage" took place about 11 years prior to "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (WNMHGB). I believe this is backed up by dialogue in "The Menagerie".

Kirk likely took command only a short time before WNMHGB, but there's nothing solid on that, either. Had to have been at least a couple fo months for both captain and crew to become as accustomed to each other as they had obviously become in that episode. Most likely, due to events in WNMHGB, the damage that was sustained to Enterprise necessitated a refit of some sort, likely upgrading the "lithium" needed for engine performance to dilithium. At this time, Doc Bryce left and McCoy came on board and they got a new bridge. A couple more months likely had to pass between WNMHGB and "The Man Trap" (next production episode, I think?) for Kirk to become accustomed to McCoy and vice-versa.

I think you're right. I think Kirk took command of the 1701 not too long before its refit to the production version. He could have had some time with the crew in space before the refit and then some time with them during refit in space dock getting to know the new crewmembers.

[Warped9]

And "The Menagerie" two parter explicitly states that "The Cage" events happened thirteen years ago, thirteen years prior to the first season episodes, and significantlt before WNMHGB by at least ten years or so.

[Griffworks]

So, you're trying to tell us that WNMHGB took place 3 years before the next episode, which I believe was "The Man Trap"? I've got no problems w/events 13 years between "The Cage" and "The Menagerie", as I was going from memory anyhow. However, I just don't buy the 3 years, regardless what was suggested in TMOST. After all, a lot of what was written in there was only ideas of where they wanted to take the series and some of that made little sense once the series ran it's course. IIRC, the stardates aren't all that far off from each other between WNMHGB and "The Man Trap" (or was it "The Corbomite Maneuver? I'm at work and can't recall for sure), right?

I just don't think that there was that much time between the first production episode and the next in the first season. It goes against the whole "Five Year Mission" line of thinking from the intro.

[Warped9]

No, reread what I wrote. I'm suggesting that WNMHGB happened 1-2 years prior to the 1st season episodes. And so since "The Menagerie" two-parter is deep into the first year then "The Cage" cannot be any closer then ten years to WNMHGB.

Or (approx.):
2266-2271 - 5-year mission.
2267 - "The Menagerie"
2264/65 - Kirk assumes command followed sometime after by "Where No Man Has Gone Before"
2254 - "The Cage"

And while it's a small thing note that there isn't any voice over intro in the WNMHGB credits. I think the 5-year mission intro may have been conceived after the show was greenlighted and before it went into 1st season production. There's also the matter of the different looking sets and uniforms between WNMHGB and the series suggesting a change and (within continuity) a refit.

[PerfesserCoffee]

^^That makes perfect sense.

[Warped9]

You know what I find amusing? It's that when I read D.C. Fontana's novel Vulcan's Glory (depicting when Spock first came aboard the Enterprise) she mentions the ship is only two years out of the launchways and makes no mention whatsoever of Robert April. Granted the novel has no official standing, but it was interesting nonetheless considering she wrote the novel several years after TAS (which she was an integral part of) where we indeed saw Robert April. Following that logic it would suggest the Enterprise was launched around 2251 or '52 rather than the the widely accepted 2245.

Just thought I'd mention it.

[JGG1701]

Well didn't Gene consider TAS non-canon?

[Warped9]

The issue of TAS' canonicity (is that a word?) didn't arise until sometime into the production of TNG I believe. Up to that point most everyone accepted TAS as legitimate events in the Trek universe. But Paramount put out the idea that only live-action episodes were "official" and thus TAS didn't count. And this idea was attributed to Gene Roddenberry directly. Now I understand that this "decree" was supposedly issued by GR's office, but no one has yet produced a direct quotation that GR ever disowned TAS. And D.C. Fontana seems to affirm this in her comments about TAS (found on startrek.com) where she states that GR was proud of TAS during and after its production.

And so I think it comes back to the individual viewer whether they accept TAS or not.