I my self think more poeple more fun

I my self think more poeple more fun
Oh, yeah! But now how do you accomplish that?

you all should be asking mike boylan that question. no only does he have the worlds largest r/c race every year but he also gets over 100 oval racers at our local (florida) big races....you need to make the racer feel like he can't miss the event of a life time. keep it fun and throw in some naked chicks! he he

Personally, I think that getting rid of handout motors and tires would be a great step in the right direction for improving turnout at the Paved Oval Nationals. A 100+ dollar race fee is simply too high and it keeps a lot of the local regulars from attending nats at their home tracks. Especially when the hand out motors are throw aways, but that's a whole other topic. I can think of about 20 regulars or semi-regulars in stock that I would have expected to be at the Nats this summer at the Tri-Clone that weren't there. Also, I think that the Fri, Sat, Sun format of the Roar Nats hurts a lot as well. It makes for one more day a person has to take off work, which is a pretty big hardship for a lot of people. The ROAR nats need to go back to 2 day events. Basically I think the more we try to turn the National races into huge productions the more we turn off a lot of people and shoot ourselves in the foot.

I know people will say that the race fee and the extra day off work is insignifficant compared to to other expenses. But, to a lot of people those are two things that sway a borderline decision on whether to go from a yes to a no. Especially for local racers.

Just had another idea concerning the whole handout tire situation. The way things are now John is giving us a discount on the tires that we must buy included in our race fee. I forget the actuall race fee info, but I think I remember that the cost of the 4 tires included in the race fee was a discount of maybe $5 dollars a tire? Well, why not ditch the handout tires and just give us a $20 off coupon for BSR tires when we register for the race. John is still going to sell the same ammount of tires, but local racers will have more of an insentive to race. The race fee will be much lower and the racer will get coupon.

Just kind of an off the wall idea that I doubt could ever happen, but it's a thought.

Isnt the whole idea of handout tires to save money and even competition?Rather than having to buy every compound and stagger availible everyones on the same four tires?

Here are my ideas: Put over $1,000.00 on the line in Merchandise Awards. Have a seminar, hosted by a noted sponsored driver, on how to assemble a chassis, build a front end, things like that. Give away the latest and greatest chassis (An RIP Undertaker, assembled by the man himself; with a custom painted NASCAR motif body) as a door prize. Do everything possible to make the racers feel at home and appreciated; free coffee and snacks; deals with local motels, that sort of thing. That's what we're doing at Thunder Road for the Snowbirds Warmup ARCOR State Race on the 15th of January. I'll let you know how it goes; but the last big race was a barnburner. Thanks; Ernie P. :cool:

ernie send me directions! i'm on the way! sounds awesome!

Touring cars in general, do not seem to have any problems with attendance.. It is mainly oval... there is a few things i hate the most about the oval situation in wisconsin... the triclone in the summer does not fall into this category.. they are the best in every way ...


1 at all of the tracks, there is not a single day during the week, open for practice.... which i understand, that they run touring and oval, so touring gets choice...

2 .. doors open at 9 and we race at noon... Now we run every other week.. so a groove in the track is umm well.. not there... we get three hours roughly to lay it down.. it doesnt happen... its like racing on ice...we never had this problem last year...,, again triclone not in this category.

3 basically zero practice time... its tuff to get a good setup on minimal practice.. thats one main reason ive not been running at the track for the last few weeks.. id rather travel 6 hours to indiana and run.. then on sundays i run the triclone.. we are not as fast as last year.. no one is... and that in plain english sucks... even if they had practice for a few hours after racing. that would help...

In my opinion the triclone does all they can to get people.. You can not ask for a better place to race.. but in the summertime, lets face it.. people have families, and do outdoor things with them on nice days...

we as oval racers, get no respect from the other tracks.. again the triclone is stricktly oval.. thats what makes them so great... but the other tracks, talk about ohh im going to do this, and oval will grow.. well im still waiting for the old days of 40-50 guys a day racing...

i like the handout tire and motor rule.. If we get a current motor, that we can use after the race, then thats worth it.. tires as a local, no it is not worth it.. why? because you know what compounds to run... Now if im comming from out of state.. im kinda screwed.. ill have to buy and test whatever... U look at peoples cars , and it seems alot lately there are people swaping color dots on tires.. painting springs ect... Im sorry if you have to do stuff like that, u need to step back and think about what we really do.. we race toy cars.. and if you cant give someone an idea, or help them out.. thats wrong.. oh thats the other reason attendance is down.. who like getting killed every week... in wisconsin , we dont have the problem.. there is no clicks.. we are all friends, and race togeether... well im winded..

Hey, Katf1sh; hit the website at thunderroadrc.com. Directions are posted there. We're in Gordonsville, Virginia; near Charlottesville. When you get there, look me up! Thanks; Ernie P. :cool:

Lots of good points have been made here and if I run over then again im sorry but here is some of my take on tracks.

Having been a track owner and in racing for 25 years now I know that you can not please everyone all the time. BUT YOU HAVE TO TRY. To many tracks set things up for the class that they owner or operator prefer and put the others out to pasture. Yes Im refering to oval or road guys. No offense to either intended. You cant do that to people if you want get them there to race every week. Without racers a track will not make it. And dont try to force things on the drivers or appear that your being "political" in the way you do things. Hard balance but it must be a priority.

"the groups" Every track has its group that is bad for business. I have them in my area as does every other track. Now yes you want them there racing but when they cause problems between drivers that are not needed then there attitude needs to be addressed I think. Asking one or two to knock it off or asking them not to come next week may bring others back or make the racing more fun for those who are there already and trying to have fun. Normally these guys are the ones who make lasting issues out of a wreck or wont congradulate someone on a win or record. Pretty obvious who they are normally and that is not many. Sure we are going to get into wrecks with each other with these cars and it can be frustrating but dont drag it out forever. It doesnt do anyone any good. I think it is up to the track owner to police this a little and try not to upset anyone. I did it in a professional as possible manor and I know other can if they want to.

Make it fun to be at the track is the most important part. turn a radio on, make some energy and relax the drivers. Running the racers through the day like cattle in a slaughter house is not fun for anyone and creates tension. IT HAS GOT TO BE FUN. That is the first and formost thing that a track operator should have on there mind otherwise your track will not succeed or worse will succeed with very little for car counts. I have seen many tracks come and go over the years and the ones that lasted were the ones that the owner cared about the drivers, made it fun, corrected bad attitudes, carried parts for the racers cars. I could go on for days but those are some key points that sure make the tracks I have been around more fun.

I've been to bigger races 100+ and smaller races 20 or so,and had fun at both,I don't think it has so much to do with the amount of racers as the quality of racing,and the attitude of the racers.Like Rob said it only takes a few to ruin it for everybody.I feel bad enough after a wreck,I don't need another driver yelling at me cause I got in his way or it was the first heat and wasn't quite up to speed yet, it can really get on your nerves,at least it does mine.The announcer can really make a difference,when you go up to BMS you will know what I mean.It's always harder to have fun if your an outsider and not made welcome.But like I always say "My worst day at the track is still better than my best day at work"

I guess I am looking at this the wrong way. The question was how to make it more fun. To me, bigger is not allways better. I am sure there are many ways to market races and get more competitors but I have had more fun racing at local races against friends. It seems like to me that the smaller the race = less time between racing heats/features and more fun compeating. JMO

they may be race cars to us.. but there toys to everyone else... i dont see how it can be a turnoff..... not trying to argue, its just how i see it..

The Thing I find is people have taken racing our Small cars To a very serious level.Which is great. But when a Newbie comes along He is absolutly blasted off the track. And usually won't return. We need to help these folks out as much as we can right off the gitgo. so they feel like they had a great fun time. Intead of holly crap what am i doing here. HAVE FUUUNNN!!!!!!!!

I still enjoy painting a concourse entry and preping the the car for static judging. It seems to have gone away, I remember Thunderdome and Whiperwill events that would draw a lot a awesome entries. Fun to admire other's artistic work.

Tom

Kenny Holmes on the "mike".

How about just following the current rules of the track. A simple rule of "if it not specifaclly (<- spelling) LISTED it's not legal" Stop's the "where does it say I can't in the rules?". A track that has rules that changes from week to week get frustrating. i understand bending them a bit for the frist timer to a track. But as long as they are told that next time it should be changed helps out a lot. That rule alone can stop a lot of bitching that goes on. Yet it is understood it's (for most of the time) on your honer.

I think hooter girls for turn marshalls would work. Never mind me I 've been eating to much of that candy that comes in the package with the new motors.

I also think that the racer's themselves can contribute to quality of the atmosphere-by remembering that wherever they go they are representatives of the track they advertise on their hats, and shirts, and other paraphenalia.
A couple of weeks ago at Fountain Raceway we had a few visitors to our track from CRC Raceway. When a tangle ensued and one of our regulars got wrecked (looked like plain racing but our local was on his way to a personal best and a TQ which he didn't get due to a DNF) and broke a carbon graphite bumper (on a 12th scale KSG try finding one of the those right about now!!) the visiting racer not only apologized, but came back with a gift card redeemable at Fountain for the price of the bumper!!- Now that's class!!!
It's that type of person that makes me want to go to the track that they race at- Because I know that most people in that crowd knows what's right-

I also think it applies to to all races not just big races- If you local races are fun it sets the satge for the "Big Races"

Follow-Up:: I do wonder why the statement was made that handout motors where "throw-aways"
Is it because people turn them down to nothing by the main? Why not just make a handout class part of your regular affair- Afterall the fact that they were handed out a month ago doesn't make them any different than a new handout (assuming they are the same motor)?

We made our track a little more fun for guys. This year we made a sportsmans class. You have to run a green machine handout motor with hard brushes, any covered wheel body is allowed. and the biggest thing is a rollout rule. it's set at 1.40. These motors should be geared around the 1.70 or so. Our track has gained about 8 to 10 guys this year alone (8 weeks). It has been so great door to door racing. Also the pro guys need to help the newbies out and show them the tricks of the trade. Cause if they aren't learning they aren't stayin! If some one needs a minute we give it to them. We start at 7 and done by 11:30 at the latest and thats 25-30 guys three 5min heats and 1 5 min main. I have traveled around Northern NY, Canada, Vermont, NH, and Maine. I have to say we have the most fun at our track. This is just my opinion.

Do you mean more "fun" or "higher attendance"?
As far as the fun factor, fun is all what you make of it.
I can attend a nats of 40 people or 140 and I am still going to have fun and be part of some great stories and great memories with my buddies. Most of the trips I can recall I dont even remember where I finished but I do remember all the fun times at dinners, laughs during road trips, etc That is what really makes it fun.
I guess I am lucky cause when big races come up many of our locals attend and even though we are cut-throat on a weekly basis when it comes to traveling we stick together and help each other which is cool.

Now as far as getting attendence back I am not sure if there is an easy solution.
4 years ago attendence seemed up at least at our track it was, we had a lot of new people. But in the last 3 years its the same guys racing well i should say some of them, alot of them left the hobby for various reasons. So you are left with the true die-hards of the hobby which alot of them are sponsored and/or have a ton of high end equipment (3 GFX's, a dyno, com lathes, auto tire truers, PCM Radio's etc, etc.) So then when new guys come around they see all the equipment us die-hards have and turn around and walk back out the door. When asked by a spectator how much it costs to get into oval and be competitive, if you say under $1,000 you are lying. Out the door they go.

Then because of the lower attendence, club racing is less competitve when everybody makes the A in each class there is nothing to shoot for. So it forces guys to travel to find the competition.
Because guys are willing to travel everybody and their brother is having a "Big race" each weekend.
Now with 3 sanctioning bodies (ROAR, NORRCA and ARCOR each with a paved and indoor nats) plus the Snowbirds, plus Sandhills' Manuf Cup race, Lin's race down at Coopers, it is starting to water down the meaning of a "Big Race".

It's great that you have more options because there maybe a race closer to your home area so I can't blame you for racing that race. But with having all those "Big Races" attendence suffers and it spreads the racers out too thin.

I hate to say it but it might actually be cool to see One carpet nats and one paved nats per year. This way you might see an A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H etc etc main versus an A,B,C main in stock an A and maybe a B main in 19T and an A main in Mod which is pretty much how it goes lately at all the Nats I have been to.

Now as far as getting attendence back I am not sure if there is an easy solution.
So you are left with the true die-hards of the hobby which alot of them are sponsored and/or have a ton of high end equipment (3 GFX's, a dyno, com lathes, auto tire truers, PCM Radio's etc, etc.) So then when new guys come around they see all the equipment us die-hards have and turn around and walk back out the door. When asked by a spectator how much it costs to get into oval and be competitive, if you say under $1,000 you are lying. Out the door they go.

what happened to "run what you brung 4 fun" approach to racing :confused: No wonder newbies run scared: they HAVE to compete with the "better guys" instead of others like themselves. thats the main reason i dont race... :cry:

We tried the run what you brung class,but there just aren't enough newbies coming in on a regular basis to keep a class like this going,one or two new people every few months just isn't going to cut it.There really is no easy solution for this problem.Possibly a new comers seminar so that the new comers can get "real" information about what the hobby is and isn't about.

We at IROAR in Iowa tried running a novice class, a run what you brung, and had to make rules to prevent guys from running mods in Novice, hard to believe.

I can’t comment on it right now because it has not gone into affect yet but we are putting together a Novice class at Thunder Road, in Gordonsville, VA. It will be for the beginner and/or the less experienced racer that wants to get a better foundation to work from.
There will be seminars on chassis set up, diff building, and shocks etc. where some of us old farts can pass on some of the things we take for granted. The racing in that class will have more emphases placed on car control then winning but there will be a good dose of that too LOL.
I think we may even get into a rent-a-battery program with a bunch of batteries that are all pretty close. Or either let them buy a couple of packs, put their names on them and they stay at the track. Something that will take that part of the deal out of the equation.
They will not be able to stay in the Novice class for ever either, once they get control and can run some consistent laps, they will be required to move on up into a regular class of racing. The point for them now is to have a place to start without being thrown to the wolves from the get go.
I will keep you guys posted on how this works out.

What Lin is talking about is not so much a Novice "Class" but a Novice "Program". It's not so much about restricting a new racer to running in a particular race, or with a particular group, as it is teaching the novice what he needs to know to advance. Not only how to drive; but how to prepare his equipment and race. Lin is to be commended for his efforts on behalf of the newer racers who have so much to learn. Thanks; Ernie P. :cool:

when we have a big race saturdays practice is always free 7 am till 9 or 10.sunday open back up at 7am racing stars at noon or some times 3 prise's are always BIG PCM radios quatom 2 esc, a car , pulsa 2 charger and many more .we allways get a good turn out.we race in York Maine and get 10 to 15 guys from NY CT and all over.place the owner goes out of his way to make sure every racer has a good time. and on saturday free cook out.

Thanks for starting this topic here. I started a similar one a while back on Dave's R/C Conference page too.

What I find interesting when looking around is...OVAL RACING is generally made up of guys who have been doing this for 10 or more years. DieHard "OVAL" racers...

Most have dabled a bit w/ other things...those TOURING CARS, Off-Road Trucks...some have played with NITRO, but when given the chance...it's back to OVAL.

Off-Road Racing was FUN...but to me it was a KIDS Sport...(most of the racers were YOUNG)

Touring was a blast...knocking down walls...when the dumb car forgot it was supposed to turn RIGHT...(Cars don't turn right....do they?)

NITRO....oh, to spend countless minutes...yanking a string...trying to make that thing run...to have it flame out seconds after it starts...and there goes THAT days racing...no thanks...

So we're back to OVAL racing....again!

Our SWTour Series offers track varieties for everyone. Velodrome racing for the guys who just want to go FAST...Flat tracks for some good racing door to door where "Set Up" really counts...and some banked Concrete where both SPEED and DRIVING are fully in play. (The only thing missing is a WEST COAST Carpet track)

The racing is usually awesome in nearly every class...but we have suffered drops in numbers the past couple years. Some guys come, some guys go...LIFE interferes sometimes and guys have to take off for a year , jobs make people go-away, etc.

Spreading the word...getting NEW faces to join in the FUN isn't that easy. People have the perception that OVAL RACING is either TOO EXPENSIVE or TOO BORING or TOO (ENTER OTHER EXCUSES HERE)

There are people and track owners who say the type of racing I promote "HURTS" tracks. Maybe it does...I don't know. However, of the locations I plan to use for the SWTour series in '05 NON of them currently have ANY Oval Racing planned except for the racing I bring into them.

All of them have a decent OFFROAD turnout, and there is a Travelling Off-Road Series that visits all these tracks too...(that hasn't hurt them)

..when we come up with some answers as to how to make it BETTER or MORE EXCITING... I'll be excited to get working and implementing some of the ideas...

OVAL RACING deserves to be HUGE again...and I'd love to see the numbers from the Mid to Late 80's come back around.

Classic did something very similar to what Lin mentioned.
When I got into Oval pan car racing, there were quite a few of us that year that were new to it.
Each Tuesday we had a practice night. The first hour the sponsored guys would teach us something.
First week was how to build a proper front end, 2nd week how to build a diff, how to build a VCS shock, etc
Then the next 2-3 hours was spent running on the track and they would come around and help each guy look at their car and suggest some things to try to help us get around the track better.
I owe a lot to Ricky Liehr and Eddie Elllis for helping me out so much back when I first got into pan cars.

Helped me a ton.

Eric,

Now that I live closer to the track, we should try and start something like that again! I would love to come up and help Walt out trying to get more people in the doors. We should make a flyer up and post it all over the track so when newbies come in the door they can see whats going on! If you race this wekend we will talk more on it, or gimmy a call and we can get together with Ricky and Eddie and anyone else who wants to get involved.

We need to get more people into racing! But I do agree with Eric. When the new racer comes in the door and see's all this stuff they have a habit of just walking out the door! Let's try and show them you can be competitive and have fun without all the "stuff"

Mario...

Its funny. A little over a year ago I returned to rc racing after 15 years. Back then you would recharge using timer chargers hooked on 1:1 car batteries. People running bearings were the exception. And 1200mah was a big deal. Remember that?

After having repurchased a number of equipment, including a Millenium Pro, a T35 Stealth, Novak tray, 7 packs, 6 motors. Still no dyno or any fancy pants devices hooked to a laptop.

This weekend, I was pitting next to a couple of guys who just bought two used pan cars... he freaked out because he couldn't be competitive. He kept having issues with his charger. A number of people offered to help. The one who road raced was proud and stuburn about not getting help. But at the end I heard him comment on everyone's equipment... including mine : "heck, I ain't going to spend 1000$ just to be able to follow the train. This ain't fun. I'm selling it back".

Makes you wonder.