Good evening guys, first off....this is a long post...and I apologize for that.....I just have alot to share with this post.....so there really isn't a "Cliff's Notes" version to post.....so here it goes.....

As Mike (Captain Fred) and I have talked about here before,we live within an hour of each other.....both of us would love to get a small group of guys like us together in our area to race with. So far there's Mike and I, my dad, and a couple other guys that I've made contact with......one is in Mike's area....and one is on the other side of Houston (probably 80 miles away or so)

We intend to start out small.....just enjoying the friendship and racing. The guy who I know on the other side of Houston is mainly into Tjets which is cool...since most of the rest of the group so far is too. This friend of mine used to race in a small league in Houston a while back that was sponsored by Robert Armstrong of Nurora. I've talked with Robert Armstrong this morning about his past racing league.......and pretty much he wanted it simple for everyone to enjoy....pretty much box stock classes.

David (my friend on the other side of Houston) and I have been talking about a set of rules that might be good for us to race with (pertaining mainly to JLTO's). We're looking to race with all sorts of Tjets.....but since most of us have mostly JLTO's...this Tjet racing would mostly be a JLTO league. David did some searching online and found a set of rules that some group up north uses when racing JLTO's exclusively.

I'd like to present the list of rules that David emailed me with for Mike and everyone else to take a look at...and comment on. PLEASE Remember....that at this time we're only going to be a small group of friends racing together...not 20-30 guys....there's not even ten of us yet........but as I told David today...as the group progresses and grows....we wil look a bit closer at the rules or guidelines.

Now, here's David's set of rules that he emailed me with:
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Johnny Lightning Class Rules

JL Body Rules
Note: These rules state only those modifications that are allowed. It is
the entrants' sole responsibility to demonstrate that their "cars" meet
these rules at all times. Modifications performed on entered "cars" that
are not specifically identified in these rules will not be allowed and
the "car" will be disqualified.

1. Body must be JL bodies produced to fit the Aurora T-jet chassis.
Split screw posts may be repaired or replaced with plastic in their
original and intended position(s). No metal sleeves are permitted. No
additions of weight in the form of modeling clay or other substances is
permitted.

2. Body may be lowered. Fender wells may be cut for tire clearance
provided general body rule #1 is not violated.

3. All windows must be stock, but side windows may be removed.
Lower edges of windows and the interior of the body can be trimmed to
avoid interference with the chassis and/or gears.

4. Bodies must be mounted with two screws, but may be left loose.

JL Chassis Rules

1. Chassis must be stock JL Tuff-One. Bending of motor brush
springs is allowed. No other chassis modifications or replacements are
allowed. Rear axles may be replaced with .062" dia. steel, splined
axles (i.e. truck axle).

2. Maximum front axle lateral movement is 1/32" (.03125").

3. Any commercially available front tire/wheel setup may be used,
provided that the overall width does not exceed 1-3/16. Minimum
front tire diameter. is .355"

4. Any commercially available, mass produced rear tire may be used
on any commercially available, mass produced rims. Minimum rear tire
diameter is 0.355". Maximum rear axle width is 1-1/8" (1.125"),
measured at the outside edges of the rims. Tires may not easily rotate
independently from the rims. Tire/Rim lubricant may not be used.

5. Armature, Gears and Magnets must be stock as provided with the
JL car.

6. Motor brushes must be stock JL or Thunderbrushes.
Thunderbrushes, if used, may be lightly scored in a maximum of two
places (X pattern) to prevent rotation.

7. Guide pins must be either stock JL, stock black Aurora or
mass-produced plastic guide pins identical in dimension to the stock
Aurora pin. Pin length may be shortened. No rear or swivel guide pins
permitted. Gluing of guide pins to chassis is permitted. The guide pin
hole cannot be modified.

8. Pickup shoes and springs must be stock JL silver or stock
replacement T-jet copper (Aurora or American Line/REH). No weights,
wires, or creative bends allowed.

9. The "step" in the pick-up shoe must remain intact and be
unaltered, except for only that the first bend may be changed slightly
so that proper "pick-up shoe" to "rail" contact can be achieved. No
attempts to "flatten" the "step" are allowed. The area between bend 1
and bend 2 may be "flattened" to achieve better contact with the
"rails". The front, vertical, slotted portion of the pick-up shoe may be
bent to limit shoe travel. The rear, hook portion of the pick-up shoe
may be bent to limit shoe travel and adjust shoe tension. Heat shrink
tubing may be placed on the front, vertical, slotted portion of the
shoe, prior to Bend 1, to limit shoe travel.

10. The pickup springs may be cut, stretched or smashed. Washers or
spacers shall not be used to adjust spring tension.

11. No weight pans or other devices for lowering the center of
gravity may be used, nor may any added-on 'traction magnets' be used.

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After reviewing the list of Rules that David emailed me I had a few thoughts....and ideas on ways to expound on the rules a bit to better suit or potential group....here are my ideas:
(numbers are according to the rule numbers above)

#1 body rule......I think any JLTO body/pullback body should be legal...as well as any Model Motoring,Nurora,Aurora or etc.injection molded body in the stock JLTO/Tjet class. I think for the modified class the same rules should apply....and perhaps the allowance for possible custom resin bodies,RR, or MEV resin bodies to be used as well(full bodies with fenders only though)

#2 I agree with body lowering....... for the stock class and modified class

#3 I agree with the idea of bodies having full glass....with side windows removed if desired...and trimming of glass for clearance of gears.

#4 Body mounted using two screws (no problem with that idea either)

Chassis rules:

#1 I agree with this for the stock class......although I think for the modified class some chassis reworking should be allowed,but must remain a JLTO chassis

#2 I agree with this rule too....makes sense

#3 This rule sounds fine too.....although I feel that the tire height should be unlimited for the modified class

#4 I think the tire hieght rule should be left open for the modified class........ otherwise most of this rule is geared towards modified class really

#5 I agree with this rule for the stock class....... for the modified class though I think it should be left open for any commercially available armature to be used.......also for magnets, and lightened gears legal for modified class also.

#6 no problem for this rule for either class......

#7 no problem with this rule for either class ........

#8 I agree with this rule for stock class........but any pickup shoes and bends should be legal for modified class

#9 I agree with this rule for stock class.....

#10 No problem with this rule either.....

#11 .....I agree with this rule for stock class......but weights and magnets should be made legal for modified class
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Now, I'd like to present the 5 different classes that I'd like for us to run perhaps:

Stock JLTO-Tjet (perhaps a combination of Tjet and JLTO running in the same class) (slip on silicones only)

Modified JLTO (this class would be able to use front independant kits,traction magnets,gears,silicones,dual flange wheels or other custom wheels, added weight,etc.)

Stock magnet cars (Tyco,Gplus,AFX,Tomy,LifeLike,etc.)

Modified magnet cars (Tyco,Gplus,AFX,Tomy,LifeLike,etc.)

Super magnet cars (BSRT,Wizzard,etc)


That's what I came up with this morning.....again I stress that this is a rough idea.

I'd prefer that our group stay independant from other racing groups....we're not looking to sanction anything....just wanna have fun,enjoy the hobby.....and maybe toss back a few cold ones while running some laps together.

We may very well grow into something larger......the possibility is there. I'm sure there are loopholes in those rules that some aspiring racer might try to exploite......but we could always add to those rules later....if the need arises. ;)

So, that's it.......Mike and the rest of the guys here....what do you think? I'm sure some of you are or would be used to a more strict form of racing with Fray style rules or whatever.....but I hate Fray cars....and would like to steer clear of that form of racing.

I'm all ears guys...... OH, and we need an official name I suppose..... any ideas??? :confused:

Holy crap........that's gotta be the longest post I've ever written here at Hobbytalk....sorry for the long winded post guys.... :o

:confused: Was I simply too long winded to make any sense with this post???? :confused: :(

Nice set ofnRule TX.

Looking at chassis rules 3 and 4 are you looking for an 1 1/8 maximum width? The Stock JL Front end is wider than an 1 1/8 closer to 1 3/16.

Also I would reconsider No 10 and allow the spacers to adjust pickup spring pressure as they are cheap and very easy for a new comers to learn to adjust using spacers. In fact it is easier to tell a newbie to add two .005 spacers than to try and show himm how to streatch a pair of springs equal size with an old set of calibrated eyeballs :)

Also RRR and MEV bodies are Resin not injected molded.

My 2 cents

Roger Corrie

Roger, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I know you do quite a bit of racing (or have in the past) so I appreciate your input man :thumbsup:

I went in and revised the rules that you make comments about......I don't yet own any RRR or MEV bodies...and was asuming that they are injection molded....thanks for the clarification.

As for the stock JLTO front end....I never thought to measure that.....I figured that that had been done previously by the person who originally wrote that list of rules...... but I changed the rule to include your measurement....so THANKS.

I just don't want to get tangled in a list of ruls so thick that we need a lawyer to draw them up.....LOL ...so simplicity is key....and I think these rules are pretty simple so far for what we want to accomplish.

I'd prefer that our group stay independant from other racing groups....we're not looking to sanction anything....just wanna have fun,enjoy the hobby.....and maybe toss back a few cold ones while running some laps together.

So why so many rules? If you're racing with 3 or 4 other people are you really concerned about someone doing some "creative bending" of their pickup shoes and stealing the win? I'd say no more frosty cold ones for Mr. Creative Bender.

With a small start-up like this the only "rule" you just need is an understanding and commitment that everyone plays fair and shares openly. You want everyone to learn both setup and driving skills so the group as a whole is always having fun and getting better. If one person womps up on everyone else all of the time because of their setup skills they need to share the wealth so the whole group gets better. There will still be disparities, especially with driving, but everyone needs to feel that with practice they can step up to the next level.

I'd just start very simple with box stock JLs with slip on silicones and box stock magnet cars with slip on silicones. With the magnet cars you'll need to explicitly decide which makes and models are racing against one another or simply limit it to one brand/type per race. Unless you're looking to attract experienced racers from the start who have had exposure to national racing organizations you are going to learn as you go and do whatever the group wants to do. Later on if you decide you want to start testing your skills against the pros and go to sanctioned races, that's when you need to sync up your rules. For now keep it simple, keep it fun, and make it very easy and inexpensive for new racers to join in on the fun.

So why so many rules? If you're racing with 3 or 4 other people are you really concerned about someone doing some "creative bending" of their pickup shoes and stealing the win? I'd say no more frosty cold ones for Mr. Creative Bender.

With a small start-up like this the only "rule" you just need is an understanding and commitment that everyone plays fair and shares openly. You want everyone to learn both setup and driving skills so the group as a whole is always having fun and getting better. If one person womps up on everyone else all of the time because of their setup skills they need to share the wealth so the whole group gets better. There will still be disparities, especially with driving, but everyone needs to feel that with practice they can step up to the next level.

I'd just start very simple with box stock JLs with slip on silicones and box stock magnet cars with slip on silicones. With the magnet cars you'll need to explicitly decide which makes and models are racing against one another or simply limit it to one brand/type per race. Unless you're looking to attract experienced racers from the start who have had exposure to national racing organizations you are going to learn as you go and do whatever the group wants to do. Later on if you decide you want to start testing your skills against the pros and go to sanctioned races, that's when you need to sync up your rules. For now keep it simple, keep it fun, and make it very easy and inexpensive for new racers to join in on the fun.

Well, for starters, some of us in the group have a bit more experience than others. With this in mind I see no reason not to have a stock and a modified class. I'm not the kind of guy who keeps speed secrets a secret......just ask Mike......when I first met him I was racing his best JLTO with my Nova JLTO....and my Nova was considereably faster. Racing in this manner isn't fun...it's frustrating. So I kindly asked him if I could tinker with his car. After I was done he was very competitive against my Nova.....and racing was a blast for us then. My intentions of wanting to have a set of rules in the begginning is so that everyone can actually learn about thier cars in a sort of "do's and don'ts" type of situation. What might not be legal for the stock class would be legal for modified....... and that's where the real experimentation would take place. :D

Would I be the jerk to kick someone out of a group for smoking me?? No.......that's why I want all of us to be open to exploring these slot cars....find out what we can thru trial and error. If all we have is a single "Box stock" class for JLTO then how much fun is that going to be??? I'd honestly get bored quick if I wasn't able to experiment and try new ideas.

As for not wanting to be sanctioned with other groups......I'd just prefer for us to be independant of any sanctioning bodies really......we'll be doing our own thing. Besides.....how many racing clubs run JLTO's??? I'll bet not even 10% ......so this alone is one thing that sets our group apart from the rest of the herd. Not every slot shop or track is hooked up with a Sanctoning body anyways.....I know "Neil's Wheels" in Plano,TX. isn't...... and they have a nice place there....and are successful.

I'm one of the guys in the Houston area thinking about getting some HO racing happening, and I've been in contact with TX Street Racer about this. We'll also try to get Robert Armstrong of Nu-Rora in to it, as well. (are you listening, Robert?)

Anyway...

We're just kinda fishing around for ideas on rules and classes.
Rog, you're right about the TO tread width..it is about 1-3/16", actually the same as an AFX (pancake) car. So, we'll update that spec. for sure.

There has been some discussion on the HOWorld YahooGroup about coming up with a nationwide standard set of classes & rules. I think that's a great idea, because if someone from the Midwest happens to make a trip out to the West Coast, for instance, he knows he could drop in on a race somewhere, and have cars already in compliance with rules. The bigger scale cars at commercial tracks have standard rules...why not HO?

So, we're just thinking mostly about JL's at this point since all of us in this little group have them, and we can work up from there. I like the idea of a box-stock class, allowing only a rear tire change to standard-T/O size slipons, and then one or more modified classes, say, one which allows slamming, aftermarket front ends, dual-flange hubs. Then a 'no-holds-barred' class where one can change arms, brushes, run shunts, traction neodots or weight pans...sort of a JL 'Open' or 'Outlaw' class. Only restriction being that you have to use a JL chassis. But then, you'd just be an Outlaw T-Jet, basically. What would be the point of even keeping the JL chassis, at that point?

Dave

Dave, welcome man.... :wave:

For you basically stock JL Class these are a very inexpensive annd easy modification. JW makes a set of brass weights that you slide over top of the stock JL front wheels.

http://www.csonline.net/vwalters/newpage1/F16.jpg\

Question for Dave Hughes. Since you all are close to Robert from Nu-rora, there is a rumor going around that he is selling his Nu-rora business? Is this true?

Roger Corrie

With all your attention to detail on the cars, I have some questions regarding the the races themselves. How long are your races? What are your marshalling rules regarding spin outs or off track/table flights? How do you choose/assign lanes? Do you use a computer for timing and lap counting?

For you basically stock JL Class these are a very inexpensive annd easy modification. JW makes a set of brass weights that you slide over top of the stock JL front wheels.


Question for Dave Hughes. Since you all are close to Robert from Nu-rora, there is a rumor going around that he is selling his Nu-rora business? Is this true?

Roger Corrie

Roger, weights would be able to be used for the modified class.....but the only modifications in the stock class would be the addition of slip on silicones only.....no weights.

I talked with Robert yesterday for probably 20-30 minutes. He informed me that he is selling the "Nu-rora" buisiness........I'm not sure if he has a buyer, if he's in negotiations, or not....but he did say it's up for sale. :thumbsup:

With all your attention to detail on the cars, I have some questions regarding the the races themselves. How long are your races? What are your marshalling rules regarding spin outs or off track/table flights? How do you choose/assign lanes? Do you use a computer for timing and lap counting?


TK, good questions...... There's only a handfull of us right now as we mentioned....... so, right now this is just a garage type venture....just going to be guys hanging out. I think the most important thing is to make sure that we're all racing on an even playing field.

We would be racing on plastic track for now.....although I did trade Mike a 3 lane routed track that I got a couple years back (but the track is still in my garage..and needs to be taken to Mike's house).

I don't yet have a computerized track timer/lap counter system set up just yet.......but, as more people come to the group....we will expand.

As for marshalling........that's another thing we ned to discuss. When I raced with the Houston 1/32 group a couple weeks back I really enjoyed the way they marshalled the race.....as soon as you wreck...you call out "Hazard"....and the marshall kills the power to the track....the track obstruction is cleared.....and racing resumes. It sucks if you wreck....because your race is over....but this would help to get everyone into actually "driving" thier car. Marshalling in this manner by calling out Hazard also helps to keep cars from being destoyed.

We'll be a small group for now........so we're crawling for now......then we'll get faster as we see what works...and what doesn't. :)

I really do appreciate the input you guys are having...... :thumbsup:

What if you all brought some cars and then you randomly assigned cars with drivers? Seems like that might help keep people from breaking the rules on car modifications. You wouldn't want to get whipped too bad by your own car. Then again, would you trust your friends to drive your cars...? Anyway, that's one way to try to keep things fair and add a little variety to your slot car life.

I guess one downside might be that you could have a "deadbeat" that always brought "dogs". To get around that, you could keep track of both drivers' points and owners' points and reward both.

What if you all brought some cars and then you randomly assigned cars with drivers? Seems like that might help keep people from breaking the rules on car modifications. You wouldn't want to get whipped too bad by your own car. Then again, would you trust your friends to drive your cars...? Anyway, that's one way to try to keep things fair and add a little variety to your slot car life.

I guess one downside might be that you could have a "deadbeat" that always brought "dogs". To get around that, you could keep track of both drivers' points and owners' points and reward both.


TK, if one car was considerably faster......(I'm not talking about just a bit faster....we're talking lapping constantly on the rest of the field) then I'd say we could have a little inspection of the car. I'd have no problems with my cars being teched.....because I want all of us on a pretty even playing field.

One other thing is I like to run some of my customs......and probably would for any of the races we run......but I rarely trust others to run my own custom cars......it's just a pet peeve of mine I guess. :jest:

If all we have is a single "Box stock" class for JLTO then how much fun is that going to be??? I'd honestly get bored quick if I wasn't able to experiment and try new ideas.

I'm not advocating limiting the type of cars you run. I'm just saying that perhaps you want to start with a couple of really basic classes while you're building up the interest level in the racing group. Once you establish a certain level of interest, figure out how to run races, manage points series, hold special events, race schedules, etc., and have a dedicated core set of people who keep showing up for races you can then go in whatever direction the group wants to go. You seemed to be keen on having a JL class so that sounded like a good starting point. Adding more racing classes is an open ended proposition. This is simply a matter of identifying a class that everyone in the club wants to run. I wouldn't be very concerned about identifying every possible class up front. Classes can come and go and may only last for a single series or single season.

All I'm saying is that I think that getting a group of people to decide that they want to get together on a consistent basis to race one type of slot cars is the hard part. Deciding to include other classes and establishing a stringent set of rules is the easy part.

I'm not advocating limiting the type of cars you run. I'm just saying that perhaps you want to start with a couple of really basic classes while you're building up the interest level in the racing group. Once you establish a certain level of interest, figure out how to run races, manage points series, hold special events, race schedules, etc., and have a dedicated core set of people who keep showing up for races you can then go in whatever direction the group wants to go. You seemed to be keen on having a JL class so that sounded like a good starting point. Adding more racing classes is an open ended proposition. This is simply a matter of identifying a class that everyone in the club wants to run. I wouldn't be very concerned about identifying every possible class up front. Classes can come and go and may only last for a single series or single season.

All I'm saying is that I think that getting a group of people to decide that they want to get together on a consistent basis to race one type of slot cars is the hard part. Deciding to include other classes and establishing a stringent set of rules is the easy part.

Ahh, ok, I see your point man.......I agree with what you're saying.

I know this may not be an easy venture....and getting people to actually hang out and race is a whole 'nother situation entirely....... if all works out then GREAT.....if it doesn't ...then hey, we tried...and I'll still be here to enjoy the hobby on my own :)

Mike and I are fired up to get something going....and now David is fired up about it too....so that's three of us that have a desire to see this get going. Houston is a large city....and I can't believe that with a population of roughly 4 million people in Houston and the surrounding areas that there isn't anything HO going on in Houston

Thanks for your insight AFXtoo :thumbsup:

The TRAKMATE system has a feature that you can hook up an automatic Hazzard feature where the drive that wrecks hits a kill button at his driver station and you set a delayy of X seconds that turns off power but penalizes the driver that hits the kill button a second or two. I have raced 1/32 where they used it and it works well for small groups. You can always race crash and burn it makes for a completley differnt driving style that can be just as much fun as when you have Marshalling this system works very well with TRAKMATES championship race mode.

Roger Corrie

Hey Roger...thanks for that info man......I was unaware of that.....and they would be a neat thing to have set up with track timing software :thumbsup:

I have an old Windows 95 PC that I'm looking to make a lap counter out of. I just need to get the software and figure out how to hook everything up. The system they are using at the slot car shop seems to work pretty well. I would like to take a closer look at that one to see what it is & how they have it hooked up. I'm planning on getting some track skirting so all 4 lanes of my plastic track will be functional. I suppose that we'll be wanting to run on some different types of tracks. I plan to have at least a couple/few different types myself. We can kinda play the rules thing by ear.

I have an old Windows 95 PC that I'm looking to make a lap counter out of. I just need to get the software and figure out how to hook everything up. The system they are using at the slot car shop seems to work pretty well. I would like to take a closer look at that one to see what it is & how they have it hooked up. I'm planning on getting some track skirting so all 4 lanes of my plastic track will be functional. I suppose that we'll be wanting to run on some different types of tracks. I plan to have at least a couple/few different types myself. We can kinda play the rules thing by ear.

Mike, I agree......

Also, I'm sure Russ would have no problem at all with letting you check out thier track timing system....it does work great. Russ also said that alot of thier "Proslots" are on sale now......so you should give the shop a call man......good deals to be had on those :thumbsup:


Janet and I will probably make another run to HSARC on Saturday.....My Porsche body kit will be in.....and I need to pick up a few parts as well :)