Where's the fun in that??? If everyone is the same speed (albiet slow) and all are great drivers, that makes a RACE more of a follow the leader yawner, just hoping for someone to make a mistake. Nothing you can do as a driver to pass, just wait, and hope.
THAT'S STOCK RACING.
Leave stock racing for the entry level guy, get the experienced people going faster so it's harder to run that perfect line, that will make racing more fun (For me at least :thumbsup:).

I could be wrong, LOL.
Later, Bret

u see my main? Im pretty bummed out about racing for now im sick of spending a ton of money and being in the b main or even worse the c-main just to be slammed into the wall by lapped car. Its just not fun right now. I have no clue what im doing wrong. All i know is im sick and tired of spending alot of money working on my car all week just to be in the b. It sucks. Im not having fun losing anymore.

...............

I would be happy to make it once this year. Im not the only one having trouble eiether. its rediculous to make the a where me and the jet race. If you make the A main here you make the A main about every place you go. Im sorry i just dont think loosing is fun.

Well, we all have to spend a lot of money to be in the A-main, but when you think about it, it's not just about winning and such. It's about having fun and being with your friends. I know what you mean by it no longer being fun when your never in the A-main, but it'll come, just give it time! I hear a lot of positive feedback around this forum about you (RCRacer45), I hear that your pretty good, so you should be there in no time! just give it time, or take a break....

That's just my 2 cents!
Justin #29

Thanks alot Justin 29 I think im just gonna do some practicing this week and just start experimenting with things. I have fun hanging out the guys its just the racing part it can get so frustrating being a lap off pace and being an entire main or 2 off.

No problem dude! You race at Plattsburgh, don't you?

Justin #29

No problem dude! You race at Plattsburgh, don't you?

Justin #29
yea once in a while its hard beacause both there and my home track race on the same night.

WOW, this got off topic quick :rolleyes:.

Justin, come pit with me next week maybe I can spot something that can help :thumbsup:.

Later, Bret

Yo Justin work on your chassis, work on your chassis, and then work on your chassis! Your batteries are strong, 35 ampers kick A$$! Your motors are always right there! I here your guys track has mad bite! You have Wade, Uncle Wayne, Leroy , Clayton, Tommy Gun down there! THey are always fast, no matter were they go! Learn and watch what they are doing ask them for some help! Any off those cats will help you! Or they will get you close on set up! You have to do the rest, use the force Luke!!! Its fun to be in the a-main but if your in the back getting passed alll the time or every few laps thats know fun either!


Later PSyCHO alIen ......

damaged has been confirmed from the 30 seconds i ran in the main last night. The bumper broke in 3 pieces. Im practicing tommarow night. I'll pit with you next week Bret. Im going back to my normal spot down the back stretch. I have to practice beacause im just as fast and sometimes even faster then the guys in the a but the catch is i have to follow them or have them right on me. If i loose the pack i start to pick and loose my line. But i can follow Rod or Jim or any of the fast guys around but if i start to loose them just a little bit i cant do anything about it...

I know what you mean by follow-the leader racing. We already see much of it in short-track stock-car racing it seems the trend is getting stronger in RC racing especially oval.

True.For me it costs more and more to follow the pack in 4cell oval classes. That's stuff I can't use for other cars especially batteries. 6cell was good because you could use almost anything available in RC. Now in 4cell you have to choose carefully on batteries, chargers, dischargers, trays, even speed controls. The way I see it oval is almost the highest priced class to join in. And unlike any other class, no beginners kit or RTR- that really hurts.

The fun is to see guys fighting for position when they are pretty equal. What's your opinion on that?

Stephane Courchesne

Hey Justin keep your head up man , I was taken out of 6 out of the last nine races there,up by 2 laps in the last one.......It is very frustrating to the average stock guy thats for sure.......i try to look at it as hey there's always next week !

True.For me it costs more and more to follow the pack in 4cell oval classes. That's stuff I can't use for other cars especially batteries. 6cell was good because you could use almost anything available in RC. Now in 4cell you have to choose carefully on batteries, chargers, dischargers, trays, even speed controls. The way I see it oval is almost the highest priced class to join in. And unlike any other class, no beginners kit or RTR- that really hurts.

Any of you other guys feel this way? Maybe I'm missing something here? Wasn't the switch to 4 cell supposed to alleviate the cost of racing oval? :confused:

...............

Apparently ur not spending enough money! :eek:

At first it really was the case. Cars were slower and crashes less important. Now they run as fast as 6cell were and crash just as hard. People who said 4cell will bring much more people are now silent; many of them even left the hobby overnight. Go figure.

The way I see it my days in (oval) stock racing are counted. I may decide to go the spec way, or mount an alternative way to build some RTR kit and bring new people in RC. I've been in for around 6 years much for the thrill of driving a NASCAR replica. So it won't be a shame for me to run in a lower class I could coach some guys if they try to go in major classes later. After all a well structured spec class can run as good as stock one for a fraction of the price.

Stephane Courchesne

Raceman,don't be fooled spec racing can cost as much as any other class,yes the motors and batteries are cheaper but they (mostly batteries) don't last near as long,you've got to really punish them to get the most out of them,then throw'em away and get new,this is if you want to run up front on a regular basis.Then you better be dead on with your set up and driving.Spec racing isn't a "lower or cheaper class" anymore,just "another" class.Sorry to burst your bubble.

Nose to tail for 5 minutes? That sounds like fun!! In mod and 19T you are nose to tail for about .0000008 seconds if that.

If winning was easy it wouldn't be fun.

I agree on the spec issue, it costs as much , if not more to run it because we as racers just can't leave well enough alone, lol. The "fast" spec guys spend loads of $$ to get the best of the best and a spec motor should never see a dyno, nor should the batts see a GFX but they do it all the time. Plus you have to modify your car to fit stick packs. I just don't see the advantage. Run stock or 19t and work on the chassie, work on the chassie, work on the chassie and a lot of practice don't hurt either.

Do I hear complaints about nose to tail racing? that's what its all about! The whole point of oval is close racing. You don't have to crash to lose, just one bobble and you're at the back of the pack. You have to be precise and right on.

The coolest thing I've ever seen happened again at the Minnreg Turkey shoot. In 19t class 4 drivers ran the whole race nose to tail. Great racing and they even had to plan their passes. When the race ended, and they walked off the stand, EVERYONE applauded. A true show of respect from everyone about what they had accomplished.

I remember when freight trains were the norm. Even in 6 cell stock racing. I have been able to buy a lot better equipment since moving to 4-cell racing. I need to work on my setup more to go faster. It can get frustrating. But I love taking the time to frigure it out (havent found it yet but getting closer). Spec racing does not work. It's fine in theory but the human factor screws it up. Hop up parts, guys moving on to new classes, seeing other go faster. All ruin spec racing. You don't want the faster guys to move down because they will be fast and then the slower spec guys drop out. I like to think of racing like a puzzle game. Some have to work 2 to 3 time as hard to go faster where some just have a knack. I now I have not seen the best racers run off-road or on-road but I enjoy watching a clean race where even the corner marshallsget to watch the race.

I know what you mean by follow-the leader racing. We already see much of it in short-track stock-car racing it seems the trend is getting stronger in RC racing especially oval.

The fun is to see guys fighting for position when they are pretty equal. What's your opinion on that?

Stephane CourchesneStephane- I've always loved the close battles for position. It's even more fun when you are equal enough to be driving in the middle of the fight. I think this is what Justin's trying to get at. Seems like right now, he couldn't even get close to the action at times. There's a lot of fast guys at our track that are worthy of running in (and do run in) "advanced" classes,like 19 turn,but run stock also either to try a different challenge or they have issues w/their cars that needs to be worked out with time. I think that in order to achieve maximum enjoyment in R/C racing,you have to run in whatever class you feel more comfortable in-whether it's w/the top-dogs or a slower class showing the up-and-comers how to drive & tune. I run in a class we call "Pro-Spec",which is very similar in rules to the ARCOR Spec rules,but I could run (and have ran) in 19-turn. We have those very same close battles you mention every week. It's even a bonus when you get even the 19-turn guys poking their heads out of their trailers/pits & cheering the Spec drivers on! I'm finding lately that I'm having a total blast running Spec. It's not cheap either,but if you're running Spec packs & motors,it won't turn into the "battery/motor of the week"-thing either.

-George
www.racewayathobbyworld.tk (http://www.racewayathobbyworld.tk/)

That's exactly what I always called ''war of batteries/motors/etc''. To follow the pack (not even to be in front) you gotta need the latest of stuff and it never ends. Spec stuff has to be available for a long time to be successful.

Pro Spec with stick packs would be good I could use the same stuff for dirt oval ,only need another car to run another class. Then again with short tracks (120 ft. or less) I'd have to use REALLY low gearing.

Stephane Courchesne

Echeconnee,you don't have to modify anything to run spec? Guys,spec racing takes every bit of driver,motor and chassis skills as does 19T actually we can run very close if not faster to 19T times in our pro spec class.

Echeconnee,you don't have to modify anything to run spec? Guys,spec racing takes every bit of driver,motor and chassis skills as does 19T actually we can run very close if not faster to 19T times in our pro spec class.Same with our "Pro-Spec" class here,too. Same headaches,but without the "motor/battery-of-the-week" expenses! lol
-George
www.racewayathobbyworld.tk (http://www.racewayathobbyworld.tk)

man it's ashame to read about guys not having fun if there not winning?

i have had my share of wins in the past and i'm, sure i have a couple left for the future. but man the last 2 months i have been horrible...but yet still manage to have a blast on the track and off the track. i go to every race thinking i have a shot at a win...if i dont win or make the A main who cares...... i'm not working ..i'm with friends...life is good! if you have to win to have fun play solitare and cheat every game!

I agree on the spec issue, it costs as much , if not more to run it because we as racers just can't leave well enough alone, lol. The "fast" spec guys spend loads of $$ to get the best of the best and a spec motor should never see a dyno, nor should the batts see a GFX but they do it all the time. Plus you have to modify your car to fit stick packs. I just don't see the advantage. Run stock or 19t and work on the chassie, work on the chassie, work on the chassie and a lot of practice don't hurt either.



AMEN brother!

Hey Justin-
When I come back you can run with us hackers in the E main, chances are you'll whip our butts :jest: !!!!!!!! A win is a win, doesn't matter what main your in :D .

it is not about motor and battery it is about getting the most from what you have.i have seen a driver with less battery and motor than top sponsored guys and beat them by a lap,it was gettin the chassis right.as razoo says a win is a win,now get to work on your setup

Are nose-to-tail races fun? I've had some that were, and some that were horribly boring. Most of the boring ones were after the 4-cell "revolution" in pan car (6-cell Mod was NEVER boring). Most of the fun ones (lately) have been racing touring cars. What makes a close race fun? My opinion: If the car is fast enough to allow a good driver to make a mistake, and the race is still close, then both drivers have fun. If the car is easy to drive, it's frustrating because nothing you do with the steering wheel helps (unless you try to pass by driving through the other car :devil: ).

You know it's not always about how well you are equipped, sometimes knowing how to use it is the key. In the last years of 6 cell stock at our track I somehow fell in some sort of a zone. Despite having to work with an old Novak DigiPeak charger plugged into a 30 buck auto battery charger as a power supply as well as 55-watt-at-best motors and a 5 year old chassis, I put top racers to shame. The Salvas Brothers had their work cut out, all of Jacques Vincelette's hired guns struggled to stay in the same lap. Pace Gendron once showed up and he would run two laps behind me all the time a couple of weeks in a row. One day he got fed up, worked on his stuff at home and BAM! new track record. In oval racing, if you got it just right, you can beat guys that are equipped twice as much as you. So just keep at it, try a bunch of things, ask the fast guys questions (they won't eat you), practice, practice, practice, and next thing you know, you'll be giving that sponsored guy misery.

Also, next time you're thinking about buying a 500$ transmitter, count how many tires you got handy. Do you have enough of them? are you REALLY SURE you got enough? You're telling me you got the new chassis, a 500$ charger AND a 500$ transmitter, as well as 10 battery packs, but you only have two sets of tires? What the hell?????

To get back to the subject, no matter which class you're running, you can limit the equipment all you want, but you really can't keep a guy from spending a bunch of money to be fast. I guess this is where racing begins to be frustrating. I mean, you start throwing money at the car an the damn thing doesn't want to go any faster! Then you take off a shim from the RF spring and all of a sudden you're a lap faster. Talk about scratching your head!!! There's no easy solution. At some point you got to set limits for youself and ask youself why you're in the hobby anyway. Now that I work 2 out of 3 friday nights, i miss racing a bunch, but I miss all the buddys I hang out with even more. That's why I'll drop by the club after work at 10 pm during the mains just to say hello to the guys. This is where you realize it's not always about winning.

So really, i guess as long as you got others of your caliber to race against and have fun with, you should be having fun. And sometimes a good freight train can be fun too, now you better not make a mistake or else you're falling behind big time!

Very well said Outlaw 44, very well said!

Justin #29

As I always say "My worst day at the track is still better than my best day at work"

You know, I've been in all sorts of R/C racing...from simple off road to owning and running an indoor offroad track and even hosting a big race now and then. I've also raced dirt oval go karts of all sorts and the story is always the same..."How come I spend so much time and money on this hobby and I still end up in the B Main??" or "How come I have the same equipment as that guy over there, but he's always in the A Main??" or "He must be cheating! I'm better'n him in practice and then he always beats me in the Main!!"

The bottom line is always the same: equipment and money will never beat talent and practice. In the long run, a guy who runs consistently well will always have some measure of talent, or self-control, or some skill that the others don't have. That's the way it's supposed to be. If it was easy, we'd ALL be standing on the podium instead of watching from the stands. For most racers, if and when you ever make it to the winners circle, you'll know one of two things: you EARNED your way there...or you LUCKED your way there. Luck rarely lasts. Hard work eventually always pays off.

I've been racing oval now for almost 10 years and people have been whining about the exact same things since the day I started. Much like everything else these days it comes down to entitlement. Some people just seem to think they are entitled to be in the A-main.

"I showed up, paid, practiced a couple packs and maybe rebuilt my shocks this week so I'm entitled to be in the A-main. Even if there are 50 other guys in my class I'm more important and deserve to be in the A-main more then they do."

Of course when this type of person doesn't make the A-main the only concievable explanation is that everyone else spent more money than them or cheated.

Then there is the never ending "motor/battery of the week" whine. How long have we been running 3300's and Monster motors? Going on 3 years now practically. I'll grant that we transitioned from 2000's to 2400's to 3000's to 3300's in a very short period of time, which definately stunk. That is over with now and has been for awhile so please get over it.

Sorry but people in this thread struck a nerve.

Well this thread got off topic a little. Just to give some insight as to the track "the jet" and "rcracer" are talking about in particular, it is Glens Falls NY. There are about 12 regulars that are sponsored. I bet the A-main's average R/C experience is around 15 years. I'm sure there are lots of tracks like this, there are great racers all over. I think its great. I smoked the track record about 6 weeks ago and it has been re set twice since then, I haven't made the A since I set the track record actually! I have been content running the B knowing the field of racers.

I don't really get the jets problem with stock, I wish you'd quit bitching about it though! Not all of us get the deal on batteries and tires that you get ya know!!!! You should keep that in mind when you try to get everyone to switch to mod and 19 and claim that it's cheaper.

Justin a few of those guys were racing before you were even born.

peace out yo

wouldnt taking all of the good guys out of stock, be class thinning??? I would rather get my butt handed to me by the top guy every week, then win against people more in my caliber... I dont thinki am slow, but im definatley not the best.. yes i have my winning days.. but if everyone is the same speed.. what do we have to shoot for...

In my opinion i run stock for the simple fact of .. It teaches you total chassis setup... and it is close racing... I think stock is harder to runthen 19 or mod.. On some nights, our mod or 19 classes are thin.. so everyone runs stock... No one has a problem with it.. Its kind of funy.. because the guys who kill in mod classes, get there buts handed to them in stock.. its a diff class..it takes a diff feel and driving style...

stock is still the cheapest class.. If you have a good setup, you can get by with medium batteries and motors..I see it every week.. it dont matter what u have one your bench.. its what u can put down on the track...

well said Tommygun,as a racer and a track promoter i see things from all angles,stock racing is cheaper than mod hands down,spec racing will work we proved it here in Plattsburgh,Raceman forget about spec chassys and spec batteries,let them run any 10th scale pan car chassy,we have track motors we hand out, with a low gear rule there has been 9 different winners out of 11 weeks and we've gained 10 new racers with our sportsman class.nose to tail racing is what's it's all about who wants to get beat or beat someone by 5 laps what funs that,remember guys this is just r/c racing not the meaning of life,be thankful that you can race,there's people dying every day to protect our freedom so we can do the things we like to do.

Dan Dubuque

Yes well said from much everyone. I did say SPEC but it could be kind of grassroots racing as well. Pick old car, decent equipment, improvize a track BAM ready to roll.

I tried dirt oval the other year and frankly had more fun in it.Now I'd pick some stuff from anywhere to prepare for next summer. I'll find a way to do the same for indoor carpet racing.

As said close racing is ok, trading places is much better.

Stephane Courchesne

TOMMY, TOMMY, TOMMY,
I expected this to get a little off topic, but didn't expect a direct attack (especially from you).

This thread was never intended to be about costs, my intent was to see opinions about follow the leader type racing to see if my opinion was the norm, or the exception.
19 turn or mod are my favorites because they tend to allow for more passing.
Harder tires in Stock (some sort of tire rule) would do the same thing. It'd make a stock car harder to drive, more like on dirt. That's what I'm looking for.

Tommy, if you think my batteries are what's allowing me to finish where I am, your more than welcome to run them... And I've been tuning stock motors for a whole 3 weeks now, so I'm sure that has my speed up too :thumbsup:.

See Ya'll Saturday, :p

Jet, you are begining to sound like a girl!

I rather earn my pass, even if it takes all 4 minutes (this in fact has happened!) than have the pass handed to me on a silver platter.

Look, I agree with you.... mod is a blast. The power to weight ratio is sick and really keeps you on your toes, but you cannot underplay a close nose-to-tail race....miss your line and you lost a couple of feet on your competitor.

In any form of racing the cream will always rise to the top..."the best chassis will win races!"

Antonio

Jet, you are begining to sound like a girl!

AntonioNice one.
Keep the insults comming, I have big shoulders.

Jet, you are begining to sound like a girl!


Look, I agree with you
AntonioHmmm...

Now Brett you are showing yourself to be a MORON and a smartass. What is your point of selectively quoting me? Don't you think that the others can read (the whole post, I might add!!)?

Antonio

Tommy, if you think my batteries are what's allowing me to finish where I am, your more than welcome to run them... And I've been tuning stock motors for a whole 3 weeks now, so I'm sure that has my speed up too :thumbsup:.

I expected this to get a little off topic, but didn't expect a direct attack (especially from you).
You must have mis read. What I said was not everyone can afford to run 19 turn and mod. (Tires/batteries/motors etc.). I did NOT say "your batteries are what's allowing you to finish where you are". You finish well in stock because you can drive and set up your car.

Hey maybe after seeing several posts about "skirt wearin" stock racers from you it got to me a little. Stock racers have feelings to you know LOL.

no fighting with them canadians brett. thats where our batterys come from :rolleyes:

no fighting with them canadians brett. thats where our batterys come from :rolleyes:LOL, but I can't let that go without a response either ;)

[QUOTE= Not all of us get the deal on batteries and tires that you get ya know!!!! You should keep that in mind when you try to get everyone to switch to mod and 19 and claim that it's cheaper.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I took that as a direct post to me :rolleyes: .

But back ON TOPIC.
Different kinds of racing for sure, stock and mod.
One is like a goldfish waiting to be fed, while the other is like a lion hunting it's prey :thumbsup:.

Apples and oranges I guess. Can't have both, so I'll stop arguing about it.

Later, Bret