OK you Lucas ridiculing, worshippers of the pre SE first three Star Wars movies, I am going to praise Lucas's 'finished' versions! Why?

*he's color corrected the dvd movies

*I LIKE the added stuff like the cityscapes on Lando's sky base and Jaba, etc. I LIKE Lucas's reworking to show his intended vision he could'nt show us 20 to 30 years ago.

*the story of the characters...the story in general has NOT been hurt, how could it have been?

*the movies are basically the SAME but more visually stunning.

You can have your crude early versions you worship so much but I like the improved ones. What you like are equivelent to 30's Flash Gordon movies by comparison.

THE ONLY COMPLAINT I have with the finished versions is that I'd always liked the PALE BLUE engine glow the Millenium Falcon had when flying. Now that glow is snow white! As bad as white colored ray beams. They should've kept the blue color but maybe the engine glow color is SUPPOSED to be white?

Anyway, that is my only bitch with the upgraded, proper movies.

Os

I'm right behind ya Os, I dont mind them either way. Though I can understand some folks wanting copies of the early unaltered versions, I truly dont find anything to bitch about in the newer ones.

Right with ya Os....

How's your home theater working out? I remember you designing cardboard buildings a few years ago...post pics if you can.

I just can't wait to see Episode 3!

I had started the miniature buildings of boxes b/c I was trying out a super heroes theme idea for the theater. However after detailng and cutting out windows on several AND nearly completing a Daily Planet, it started to be a major p.i.t.a.
Later on, I caught onto what art deco could be done and so my theater is way more deco than before. Sometime I'll fix up my home theater site and put it on the web. In one corner there's the Wars movie figures, etc and the opposite corner has a Trek display.

Sometime I GOTTA build the Nautilus and Time Machine to show in there!

I've a store dummy dressed in a rubber Batman suit now and they'll be batman models displayed with it.

Os

i have been enjoying them since we picked them up . it's been so long since i'd watched them it was like viewing for the first time for me anyway .
years ago , when the scifi channel was going strong , i taped the LBX versions they aired so i do have a comparison . it's just not big of a deal to me .
like ya say they're still the same movies as far as story and character goes .
hb

Anyone notice that Vadar's cape has a satin lining? It's not flashed much at all but in Empire, you can see the edge of it as the cape brushes the floor and once I saw it along the chest and arms in a waist up shot as Vadar talked to someone.
I don't think I saw any fanboy costumes that had a lining. The deluxe action figures don't either.

Os

I wish I could visit Skywalker Ranch and thank Lucas for improving the trilogy btw. You that have ridiculed him and trashed his redo should kiss his feet!

Os

One thing I would have liked for Lucas to do is put the Original theater version from 1978 on one side and the finished version on the other.That way the people who grew up with the "originals "could be satisfied.And those that accept change could have thiers.I would like to personally have both to compare changes/improvments he has made.The best of both worlds.



improvise,adapt and overcome.we are the fellowship of modelers.

I think the Lucas folks say you can try getting the early versions on vhs but I doubt they're widescreen.

I heard something about there were 6 different prints or color differences of the films too.

Os

The last two times that the original trilogy was released on VHS (before the special editions) they were released in widescreen. The widescreen sets cost more because they came in big collectors boxes with extra stuff included.

The trilogy was released between 1977 and 1985 with 6 different sound mixes. On the VHS versions, 3 of these mixes were released at some point in time. By the time of the special editions in '97, they had selected what they thought was the best mix. Now with the DVD editions, the mix has changed again. As technology progresses, I am certain that we will see at least one more mix for the original trilogy.

As far as Darth Vaders cape and robe are concerned, he has always had a satin lining and a leather band at the neck and base of the cape. Check e-bay for this stuff. You can find real good "fan-boy" versions of the cape and robe for good prices. Go to "collectibles" or "entertainment memorabilia" and type in Darth Vader, then select "highest price first", and you should be able to find complete vader costumes.

I have the Widescreen "originals" pre-special editions on Laser Disk... So if I want to watch them as they were, I can. But I also love the DVD versions b/c they are so amazingly beautiful... Plus how else would we have been able to experience the Jabba cut scene. My only problem is the Hayden at the end of Jedi... But I'm sure GL will explain that later.

Travis

I saw Vader outfits stuff. I never knew there were more than one company producing the Vader helmet: Altman, Rubies, vaccuform plastic, some place/s doing fiberglass ones.

Don Post's ones were OK. Used to have the 2nd version. I never knew Vader's helmet was two tone! The ultimate helmet would have all the electronic jazz on it when it was removed. If not for a costume, at least as a display piece.

One guy was selling a complete suit but the cape was too short.

Os

Any of you know about this Aussie guy's site on how to make an official looking Vader suit at low cost? I saw it, it's pretty good.

I don't like typing URLS so if you're interested search darth vader costume. I guess he calls his costume methods (or fanboy company?) 'Vaderkinde'.

Os

Never mind the details, do the extras include the missing sandstorm scene or any other extra Leia Brass Bikini footage?

My only problem is the Hayden at the end of Jedi... But I'm sure GL will explain that later.

Travis

He does, on the commentary track on the RTOJ DVD.

While there are numerous improvements to the trilogy that I do agree ARE improvements, I still disagree with the decision to NEVER release the original, unaltered versions. Those originals with all their warts are the films that won the Oscars and captured the imagination of my generation. To say that we may never see that non-CG model work or Han shooting first seems wrong to me. Now, never again seeing the Ewok's "Yub Yub" song at the end of Jedi doesn't bother me in the least.

I too have the "Definitive" collection letterboxed laserdiscs as well as the special edition lasers and don't really feel the need to buy the trilogy again. I have a friend who will loan me his to watch the extra goodies.

To see an excellent comparison piece about the various versions of the trilogy, check here http://www.dvdanswers.com/
Scroll down to the links labeled Star Wars: The Changes - Prt 1, 2 and 3.

I would have liked to have seen the Anchorage and Biggs scenes added to the SE versions, along with the scene where Luke sees the ISD/Tantive V battle with his binocs.

While there are numerous improvements to the trilogy that I do agree ARE improvements, I still disagree with the decision to NEVER release the original, unaltered versions. Those originals with all their warts are the films that won the Oscars and captured the imagination of my generation. To say that we may never see that non-CG model work or Han shooting first seems wrong to me. Now, never again seeing the Ewok's "Yub Yub" song at the end of Jedi doesn't bother me in the least.

I too have the "Definitive" collection letterboxed laserdiscs as well as the special edition lasers and don't really feel the need to buy the trilogy again. I have a friend who will loan me his to watch the extra goodies.

To see an excellent comparison piece about the various versions of the trilogy, check here http://www.dvdanswers.com/
Scroll down to the links labeled Star Wars: The Changes - Prt 1, 2 and 3.

Listen I Agree with this Completly J, I understand Os' and other folks enjoying the "Enhanced" Versions BUT I think a choice Should be availible Thats all I'm sayin'

JOHN/LONFAN

I'm pretty sure I have the early versions on vhs off TV in ws. In mono so that's why I got the dvds. My vhs SE were only in p&s where I got them. Did'nt have the money for the ws boxed set vhs.

Os

I would have liked to have seen the Anchorage and Biggs scenes added to the SE versions, along with the scene where Luke sees the ISD/Tantive V battle with his binocs.

My understanding is that Lucas never intended those scenes to be in the movie. Supposedly, the studio was concerned that Luke didn't appear in the movie until relatively late, so Lucas wrote and shot the scene to please them, even though he was never going to use them.

Actually, the scene was dropped when the whole "layout" of the film was changed in the editing. That scene was one of many just bouncing around to different locations to introduce characters - "Ok, here's Luke, here's the droids, here's Leia, here's Ben, here's Han and Chewie, here's Vader...now watch how we bring them together."

When Lucas and Walter Murch (editor, I believe) sat down and looked at the film, they re-ordered everything. Now, each character leads you to the next - "The droids lead you to Leia, who leads you to Vader. Cut back to the droids, who lead you to Luke, who lead you to Ben, who leads you to Han and Chewie."

It's a story telling narrative thing, not a studio thing.

Anchorage is in Alaska!

Actually, the scene was dropped when the whole "layout" of the film was changed in the editing. That scene was one of many just bouncing around to different locations to introduce characters - "Ok, here's Luke, here's the droids, here's Leia, here's Ben, here's Han and Chewie, here's Vader...now watch how we bring them together."

When Lucas and Walter Murch (editor, I believe) sat down and looked at the film, they re-ordered everything. Now, each character leads you to the next - "The droids lead you to Leia, who leads you to Vader. Cut back to the droids, who lead you to Luke, who lead you to Ben, who leads you to Han and Chewie."

It's a story telling narrative thing, not a studio thing.

Well, considering Lucas's penchant for rewriting history, this may be accurate. However, I don't remember reading or seeing anything about cut scenes with Han or Obi-Wan. The earlier scene with Luke was in the novelization and if I remember correctly, the screenplay published in THE ART OF STAR WARS. Otherwise than this scene, the story structure pretty much matched the final movie. Either the change in the structure was done in the wrting stage, not the editing stage, or the Biggs scene was a last minute cut.

The way a docu tells it, the PRE release treatment of New Hope, a rough cut maybe, was awful to Lucas and his pals who saw it. That's what led to the version it became in the first release. Even at that, the actors and producers assumed there was a likelyhood the movie would tank!

Os

HOLY MACKERAL, I can't believe the price of an accurate replica Vader helmet!! Dang it, Don Post ones are 30% smaller than the accurate size.

Os

Well, considering Lucas's penchant for rewriting history, this may be accurate. However, I don't remember reading or seeing anything about cut scenes with Han or Obi-Wan. The earlier scene with Luke was in the novelization and if I remember correctly, the screenplay published in THE ART OF STAR WARS. Otherwise than this scene, the story structure pretty much matched the final movie. Either the change in the structure was done in the wrting stage, not the editing stage, or the Biggs scene was a last minute cut.The scene w/Luke watching the battle over Tatooine and his talking w/Biggs was indeed a last-minute edit. I've seen a version that was on TV years back (mid-80's?) that had the Anchorhead conversation between Luke & Biggs and a number of stills for that scene exist, so it was at least filmed.

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Jeffrey Griffin
Griffworks Shipyards (http://members.aol.com/Griffworks/shipyards.html)

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Star Trek Scale Modeling WebRing (http://q.webring.com/hub?ring=startrekscalemod)

ONE more bitch about the SE: I too wish the Ewok music had been saved....when you see the Ewok celebration that is. Should've had more of it too.

As far as Hayden being seen, I don't mind it but it seems strange even if Anakin was young when he was still a good guy before he turned bad.
Seeing his ghost in the young form might have more credibility in that respect. It still works with a repented middle aged Anakin though. Still, a tie in is a tie in!

Os

The scene w/Luke watching the battle over Tatooine and his talking w/Biggs was indeed a last-minute edit. I've seen a version that was on TV years back (mid-80's?) that had the Anchorhead conversation between Luke & Biggs and a number of stills for that scene exist, so it was at least filmed.


I must repestfully disagree with this assertion. While those scenes were indeed filmed, they have never been shown on TV or video to my knowledge. It was a big deal a few years back when the official SW fan club magazine had an extensive photo sequence from those scenes and the editors of the zine were allowed to screen the scene finally for themselves and describe it to readers. If it was ever broadcast, there would be bootleg versions available everywhere. I've never seen them. I would love for any/all deleted scenes to be included on a DVD someday.

If you can find the old "Behind the Magic" CD-ROM, the scenes are on that disc, intact!

Disagree if you like. However, that doesn't change that I saw those scenes on TV. It's possible that it wasn't an airing of the entire movie and was instead a "Behind The Scenes" show, but I've seen those cut scenes. It was around 20 years ago, so I might be mis-remembering the exact details/sequence. However, I have seen those scenes and not just in stills, just as I'd seen the Biggs & Luke talking @ the hangar on Yavin scenes in the theater at some point in late '77 or early '78.

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Jeffrey Griffin
Griffworks Shipyards (http://members.aol.com/Griffworks/shipyards.html)

* * * * * *

Star Trek Scale Modeling WebRing (http://q.webring.com/hub?ring=startrekscalemod)

If you can find the old "Behind the Magic" CD-ROM, the scenes are on that disc, intact!

Yes, but were those scenes ever shown in the context of the film in either theaters or TV? I meant no offense and would truly like to know if anyone else had seen what Griff has. With all the bootleg DVDs at cons, I haven't seen a version of the film with these scenes in.

Does the "Behind the Magic" CD have all the earlier Tatooine scenes (Luke seeing the battle with macrobinoculars, Fixer and Camie, Biggs and the academy and jumping ship) as well as the later Biggs scenes in the hanger on Yavin IV?

It's just so surprising that Lucas would release those on a CD, but not include them on the DVDs. Even if he felt it necessary for creative reasons to not put them into the body of the film, he could have had a deleted scenes section in the extras. I would have liked to have seen the original making-of shows that ran on TV right after the films' release included as well. Any vintage material is always fun. At least there are bootleg DVDs of all that stuff. Even if many of them have asian subtitles.

We've been going thru the box set, and all and all I'm pretty pleased with set, especially for the money. The movies look and sound sensational for the most point. And I'm glad they finally fixed that scene where it looks like Obi-wan's light is fizzling out during the Vader lightsaber battle, I still remember seeing the first matinee of "Star Wars" in Memphis and thinking "Uh-oh, Obi Wan's lightsaber is running out of juice!".

As for the added and improved scenes, a few are really good, a few are lame, and they've been talked about enough. Surprisingly, the insertion of Annakin into the end of "Jedi" doesn't really trouble me, in fact it kinda makes sense when you consider Lucas was making a six-part story and started in the middle.

And I'll bet sometime after this boxset stops selling well, we'll be seeing new versions, including the original trilogy in their old form.

Yes, but were those scenes ever shown in the context of the film in either theaters or TV?
No.

I suspect the scenes will included in a future DVD (or the equivalent) release. They are too "conspicuous by their absence," in my opinion.

Qapla'

SSB

I was watching the SE Jedi last night and watched for the guy's name who was the dieing Anakin and his credit does'nt seem to be on the mile long list at the end! So I had no idea and spent 40 minutes checking some Sir so and so's to no avail. Then I stumbled upon another list's discussion where I found his name: Sabastain Shaw.

He seemed to have had a long career in films, tv and a lot of stage work, his whole life, since childhood. Saw it on imdb. I don't think I ever heard of him but he was in some things I probably saw. Died at 89 in '94. His first showbiz job was in 1914.

I wonder if Lucas had even heard of him before he went to Shaw for the part?

Os

I want to build a lifesize Vadar, I can't find info on how tall Prowse is. Anyone know? He was a bodybuilder but not doing compitions I assume b/c there's no bodybuilding images of him.

Os, Dark Lord of ventriloquist dummies

Here you go:

Dave Prowse IMDB Bio (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001190/bio)

Thanks, he was one TALL mother! Mayhew could'nt have been more than 4 inches taller. I'll definetely have to bite the bullit and buy a Rubies fiberglass big Vader helmet sometime.

Os

Hey, I saw where a fan made Vader helmet had it's face painted GREY and black. Is Vader's face plate supposed to be that way in any of the 3 movies?

Os

Darth Vaders' mask was always a mixture of gloss black and a dark metallic color. This was for two reasons:

1.) The mask would have been extremely difficult to film if it had been solid black.
2.) The two tone paint scheme added interest to the mask. ( The paint is continued into his chest armor)

It is?! I'll tell ya, you can't see the grey....dark or not. The shoulder/chest armor grey and black is WAY more obvious.
I saw around 7 Vaders at a small con in'79 and their face plates were not two tone that I could tell. I guess these days they would be.

Os

No one actually realized the two tone scheme until the eighties. If you watch "A New Hope" carefully, you will see the two tone when he is questioning Leia aboard the Tantive IV. Plus there was some intentional damage to his mask to deflect the light that would have been reflected at the bends in the mask.

The masks used in "Empire" and "Jedi" were so glossy that it was almost impossible to se the two tone scheme. However, in the new "Empire" DVD, I notice the two tone showing up several times during the final lightsaber duel.

In "Jedi" you get a real look at the two tone when Luke removes Vaders' mask. Watch closely, it is definitely made up of black and dark gunmetal.

I now have four Vader figures, I just got a Kotoboyuki or whatever it's called Dark Horse vinyl prepaint snap together figure.
Thare's the electronic figure bank I count as a figure model, the nice DOLL one where the guy's face can be exposed and an Ertl vinyl. I wish I could've gotten that 2 foot one. The multiple Vader figures are a substitute for a lifesize dummy.

I wish I could build the lifesize Vader but now it seems it's not likely due to the cost and my limited ability on making things like the lined cape and a ribbed body suit. The belt and chest boxes could be tricky. No such thing as solid black Contac paper anymore does'nt help.

There just are'nt that many helmeted NO FACE showing super star movie villains or heroes.

Os

Regardless of tie-ins, I think the change to the end of ROTJ ruined one of my favorite scenes of the entire series. I think Lucas was simply trying to buy credibility for the latest flicks, that really have nothing to do with Star Wars. Lucas has become another Trump. It may as well have been Trump making the latest films.

big dog, you may think Wars is about Luke, Han, the Princess, C-3P0, etc but it's NOT.....it's a long 6 movies story about Anakin. According to Lucas anyway.
Os

Well, matter of perspective.

On its own, ANH is about Luke. Collectively, the Original Trilogy is about Luke, with Vader as a supporting character.

The existence of the Prequels, watching everything chronologically, turns your focus on the OT inside out, making Anakin/Vader the character you're watching through it all, with Luke as a secondary character now.

Well, matter of perspective.

On its own, ANH is about Luke. Collectively, the Original Trilogy is about Luke ... The existence of the Prequels, watching everything chronologically, turns your focus on the OT inside out, making Anakin/Vader the character you're watching through it all, with Luke as a secondary character now.

I remember seeing an interview with Lucas years ago where he said something to the effect of the whole saga is about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Obviously Luke is key to that redemption, so he's far more than a secondary character to the whole story, though not THE central character as he was viewing the trilogy. Now he's one of two.

Quote from "Saving Star Wars"

VIDEO STORE CLERK: "See, originally Lucas was going to make 9 movies called the adventures of Luke Skywalker. Then he decided to make 6 movies and call them the adventures of Anakin Skywalker."

CUSTOMER: "Can he do that?"

VIDEO STORE CLERK: "Sure, he's George Lucas."

CUSTOMER: "Who's George Lucas?"

You people can declare that Wars is the master blaster, 'all that' space epic of the ages but I have to think that TOS Trek was the great sci fi work, GENERAL ENTERTAINMENT wise anyway, that started it all. Without it, Lucas may've never thought of Wars. Wars suckled at Trek's bossom.

Flash Gordon as the old newspaper strip of the early 30's may've introduced the public to sci fi in a visual medium (?) and LIS may've been a Disney like approach to a Swiss Family Robinson in space but it was TREK that broke new ground, NOT Wars.
The media hype and the Lucas sycophants will say Wars was this incredible vision, genius and totally unique.....baloney.

2001 was an imporant work (from a book) but it was too cerebral to appeal to the general masses. Ditto with THX-1138.

Os

2001 was an imporant work (from a book) but it was too cerebral to appeal to the general masses.

The book 2001:A Space Odyssey was written by Arthur C. Clarke, after he and Stanley Kubrick had written the screenplay. The book was based on the movie, not the other way around.

You people can declare that Wars is the master blaster, 'all that' space epic of the ages but I have to think that TOS Trek was the great sci fi work, GENERAL ENTERTAINMENT wise anyway, that started it all. Without it, Lucas may've never thought of Wars. Wars suckled at Trek's bossom.
Actually, the two have a rather symbiotic relationship. Without TOS, the appeal of Star Wars may have been far less, and there never would've been more movies. And without Star Wars, the Trek movies (and subsequent series) may have never happened. I tend to think that each whetted the public's apetite for the other.

The media hype and the Lucas sycophants will say Wars was this incredible vision, genius and totally unique.....baloney.
Well, it was unique in the sense that it was a great retelling of a classic story. In college I took an interterm (three weeks of a class for three hours a day) class on Wild West Literature. We read a whole bunch of western novels and watched a whole lotta westerns. The very first movie the professor showed, as the quintessential western, was "Star Wars." It has all the elements of a classic western; but people never saw a western like that before Star Wars.

I tend to agree with the argument that there are no new stories, just new combinations of story elements and new settings for the stories. Trek is no different (and don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Trek fan) in that it was a new setting for human stories; heck, when Gene Roddenberry pitched it to the network execs, who weren't quite getting the premise, he boiled it down to "Wagon Train to the stars."