Dang
Only thing I can say then is, when all else fails take some dual rate out, haha
Take it easy and good luck racing !!
Can only take so much out before there's not enough left to avoid the mixers :)

true true

Hey Arnie, Father Frank Stopped by and drove the new Ride at MArshalls ....Great Job on the car and I loved Seeing Frankie and hangin a JAW for a while......See ya at Sandhills next week.....SRM

Arnie, you gonna try to make it up for the winterblast this year?

Arnie, you know of any place that might have one or who you are shipping to soon so i can get one? i tried Todd but nothing yet. thanks in advance.
Lamballs i'll be at k/n soon to do some racing after i get married on the 27th maybe i'll go racing for a week or 2 for my honeymoon lol sure the wife would like that cya soon. Brad

You're getting married... join the club. I am next september... what's the world coming to.

See ya @ K/N and congrats man.

Lambert...are you saying more camber gain or raise the inside of the rf arm up? More gain to me would mean more steering. Thanks.

No I mean remove camber rain, move the inner part of the arm up. That should take some of the aggressive feel out of the car.

I played last night with the side shock positioning, and moving the shocks down in teh holes definately removes entry turn in, so that's something else that you could try.

If you want, give me a call, it's probably easier to discuss what your car is doing, where you are at setup wise, and what you want the car to do than typing, this could take a while...

My home # is (860) 872-4069.

I'm usually home after 6 p.m. ( like right now).... but if it rings and rings... I'm probably online. :)

Thanks Jason...I don't think I need to call ya, thanks for the offer though. It was ok cept for the little getting on the RF thing, it was still the fastest car in the main just hard to drive that way. I was just checking to make sure my thinking was right on the camber issue, I did have a little too much and I will also try to move it up a hole and try that. Thanks.

Still No Answer Where I Can Get One? Would Appreciate Anyones Info. Lamballs, Congrats To You To. 3 Kids And 7 Years Later I Figured It Was About Time. Cya Soon, Brad

Still No Answer Where I Can Get One? Would Appreciate Anyones Info. Cya Soon, Brad
Did you ask your lhs to call CW? I still think they have some left at the shop.

Steve.
Team CW

B.Sousa- Get ahold of Kipp at Kipp's hobbies in Greenville, NC. Email is nckippy@cox.net. That's where i got mine, super nice guy to deal with, ordered it on friday and got it on monday.

Jason

vwal- you run yours on sunday i take it? i didn't get a chance to look at what you were trying out. Hopefully i can get mine out next time.

Anyone tried running the AGGRESSOR in the short wheelbase with the t bar and pod in the offset position?

I've tried the car with the tbar and pod offset, but not the shortest wheelbase, I wanted to still be able to switch to the long pod and move the front back at the same time. The offset pod/tbar does work.... massive left side weight, nad drives out of the corner really well....

JasonAB25, no CW car, still a KSG. Would love to get one if you wanted to order another and let me have it!!!!!! I was just using these smart guy's heads to figure out what I needed to do, well make certain what I needed to do, I had ideas...good luck with the new ride, whenever you want to throw it down in open mod let me know, I can build ya a motor!!!!! See you in a week.

VWAL
Try the swaybar, I love mine. If you know you have the right tires, and you want to run ZERO tweak, the swaybar is just GREAT!!!

Later, Bret

Well, looks like I have a buyer for all my old trinity cars... as soon as I have the cash and they are gone, I'll be picking up Custom Works Agressor #2! This way I can at least directly apply what I learn on one car to the other... should make running 2 classes easier with 2 of the same car.

Lamballs, my name is on the H.D. if you sell it. Need a19T car for K/N. We'll talk at the track Sunday, bring the car...

Bob I have A 700 CAR LOOKING TO SELL??
Nick

Too late Bob, Vincenti is buying the hyperdrive off me... and a guy from north carolina wants all the trinity cars that I have. As soon as I have the check from that guy, the trinity cars go in the mail, the hyperdrive gets handed to Bobby, and I call Todd and order Custom Works ... car #2. I never actually thought that I would sell all the trinity cars, but one guy wants all of them.

Have a slider, need a solid chassis..........got one???

jason, i finally got ahold of Todd today as soon as he gets them i'll have custom works car #1 with more to follow i'm sure. cya soon Brad

Good to hear it Brad. It's an awesome car for sure. I got in touch with Todd this week about getting one of the steel t plates, once I have the cash in hand from the trinity sell off I'll give him a ring and pick up kit #2.

jason i heard you saying you were running side shocks at k/n in 19t and stock hows the car fell with them? i know all the times i've been there i ran shocks and the car was terrible and everyone told me run a damper tube but i just ignored them hopefully the shocks will work i like them alot better then a damper tube. i ordered a few of the spring steel tbars also the offset ones. hey one other thing hows the sway bar working or you have not got it yet? let me know i'de like to get the car and set it up with it if it seems to work. well glad to see your back and i look forward to rubbin fenders with ya in a few weeks , Brad

Brad,

Most of the guys are running tweak screws and a dampner tube, I tried teh car with the shocks, and I ran a string of 59's with it. It's close, not perfect but real close. I hopefully will get a little more out of it this weekend. I haven't gotten the sway bar yet, I ordered it last Saturday, but it hasn't shown yet. Hopefully it will be at my house Friday so I can try it this week. If not, I'll put it on next week, probably about the same time that the offset tbar shows from Todd. Come see me when you get to the track, and take a look at how I am running the car. Or, I can post the setup on here. I kind of wanted to wait until it's a littel better before doing that, but if you want it, I can post it up.

We have 2 custom works cars in Zanesville at y city now. I have 1 and Terry Z has one. I am very impressed with my kit and the way the car went together.
We have a 144 flat carpet oval with decent bite. 4 cell stock is very competitive there.
I am looking for different setups for 4 cell stock on flat carpet, I am running the offset tplate with centered pod. The t plate is the medium stiff plate.
What should offsetting the pod along with the offset t plate do to the car?
I seem to be looking for a little more rotation in the car from the center off, I tried moving the left rear in and that did help some, trying to keep the rear from pushing the front end and binding up the car.

Thanks, Craig

Craig,

Jump on a plane and come to New Jersey tomorrow. Arnie will be there running on a similar track. You can bet we'll be looking over his shoulder for the setup.

We have 2 custom works cars in Zanesville at y city now. I have 1 and Terry Z has one. I am very impressed with my kit and the way the car went together.
We have a 144 flat carpet oval with decent bite. 4 cell stock is very competitive there.
I am looking for different setups for 4 cell stock on flat carpet, I am running the offset tplate with centered pod. The t plate is the medium stiff plate.
What should offsetting the pod along with the offset t plate do to the car?
I seem to be looking for a little more rotation in the car from the center off, I tried moving the left rear in and that did help some, trying to keep the rear from pushing the front end and binding up the car.

Thanks, Craig
What springs do you run ... I recommend reds on flat tracks.

How much RF caster do you run ... Too much RF caster will also make your car tight center-off.

Have you tried little preload on the LF spring?

Steve.
Team CW

We have 2 custom works cars in Zanesville at y city now. I have 1 and Terry Z has one. I am very impressed with my kit and the way the car went together.
We have a 144 flat carpet oval with decent bite. 4 cell stock is very competitive there.
I am looking for different setups for 4 cell stock on flat carpet, I am running the offset tplate with centered pod. The t plate is the medium stiff plate.
What should offsetting the pod along with the offset t plate do to the car?
I seem to be looking for a little more rotation in the car from the center off, I tried moving the left rear in and that did help some, trying to keep the rear from pushing the front end and binding up the car.

Thanks, Craig
I wouldn't go with an offset pod in stock unless the track has tremendous bite. Re: Offset pod ... Here's what I wrote in an another thread...

My general rule of thumb is...

High bite surface
+
Flat track
+
High speed turns
=
offset pod is a must

...

Some say that offseting the pod gives more rear bite, I say it is a wrong debate ... it's like saying moving the battery pack forward will give more steering. If you don't reset the wedge in the car after you move such heavy parts as the battery or motor, you're most probably to be fooled.

Moving the battery forward is going to make your car tighter by increasing the front percentage ratio. Inertia is a big factor, a bigger mass will not change direction easier. 40 years ago my dad was adding rocks in the trunk of their dirt late model racer thinking that it would track better coming off of the turns. They now know better... On paperclip tracks move the weight further back ... on tracks with large radius turns move the weight further to the front.

Offseting the rear pod increases left side percentage ... and that's what your looking for on high bite flat tracks with with large radius turns like at the Snowbird Nats' oval. The more speed the car carries through the turns the more left side weight percentage you want. A car with too much left side percentage or that doesn't roll enough is most likely to lack side bite (car slides evenly the 4 wheels) ... as a car with not enough left side percentage or that has too much roll through the turns is most likely to traction roll (too much side bite).

Hope this helps.

Steve Salvas
Team CW

Steve, With the pod and Tplate offset, how would you shim the axel to start off with?
still 199mm over all? and do you still use 3mm past lft fr?
Thanks
NICK

Steve, With the pod and Tplate offset, how would you shim the axel to start off with?
still 199mm over all? and do you still use 3mm past lft fr?
Thanks
NICK
Since switching to CW, I now run the rear track at 202mm with only .020" on the RR. With 202mm rear track and 1/2 degree of rear steer the LR is close to 3mm out versus the LF. I start with this setup for centered pod and offset pod.

Steve.

I seem to be looking for a little more rotation in the car from the center offThanks, CraigCraig, move the LF all the way in, if that's not enough go with a softer compound.

Later, Bret

Steve, yes to the red springs. The left front has a little droop and the right front is shimmed up to where there is no droop but no preload.
Tires are usually green lf black rf white rr and green lr, with jack the gripper.
Rear shocks are 35wt and silver springs and in the bottom hole. When it was in the upper holes the car was rolling alot and not staying down.
I know it is hard to dial someone elses car in over the internet but I appreciate the information as to what usually does what.

The Jet, moving the left in will put more weight on that wheel?

Thanks, Craig

RC, I think that you are running too soft on the side springs. I would try going up to a pair of gold springs, and try that, unless you are running the wolfe silver, which is pretty stiff. Running the shocks down in the rear brace tends to take away entry steering, so my guess is that you have done somethingto get the turn in back with shocks down at the angle that you are running them at. Try putting gold springs on the car, and go one hole from the top, that way you can go wither way with it a little, and start there My guess is that the car goes in, and rolls over because it si too soft, and that is causing some of teh lack of steering, the car is rolling over too much. I also would suggest the red front springs, maybe a progressive red on the right front, standard on the right front, and prelaod both so t hat they are sitting near to no sag. I always like a little sag in the springs, maybe a 32nd of an inch, seems to allow the car to flow over bumps better. Another option would to go to a front swaybar, and drop the front spring rate to compensate. Also, what brand of tires are you running, that may help too. I run alot of TRC stuff, and for stock flat oval I'd probably start with 3 greens and a black right front. If the car is loose, then I'd go to grey rears.. then white rears. I never liked running one regular tire and one exotic in the rear of the car, it doesn't seem to stay consistant that way, the tires build heat differently. Just something else to think about......

Hey Jason, those sound like good ideas to try. I am running all Jaco tires right now.
What sway bar do you suggest? KSG? I have tried to make them work in the past but being something homemade might have been the problem. Seems running droop on the left front, maybe 1.5 mm is popular and allows the front to roll alittle bit before it takes weight off.
I will try the golds and see what that feels like. I have a silva gold in the center now on a HPI shock with between 60 and 80 weight.

Thanks Craig

Craig,
Yes, the KSG swaybar. If you're track is really smooth, you probably don't need it, but if the track has alot of bumps, the softer springs will allow the car to follow the track alot better without sacrificing corner speed from too soft a front spring. With Jaco tires, I'd try a black right front, grey left front, and grey rears. Try the black and 3 greens though, it may work too, I just have3n't run and Jaco tires in a long time, but as my supply of TRC starts to run out, I suspect that unless I happen across a tire deal elsewhere, Jaco will probably be what I go with.

Steve, yes to the red springs. The left front has a little droop and the right front is shimmed up to where there is no droop but no preload.
Tires are usually green lf black rf white rr and green lr, with jack the gripper.
Rear shocks are 35wt and silver springs and in the bottom hole. When it was in the upper holes the car was rolling alot and not staying down.
I know it is hard to dial someone elses car in over the internet but I appreciate the information as to what usually does what.

The Jet, moving the left in will put more weight on that wheel?

Thanks, Craig
Your front sounds good (how 'bout caster and camber settings).

I agree with Jason that you might be running too soft side springs, as per how you described your car's reaction I'd try wolfe opaques and going back to second hole from top ... then just reset the amount of wedge as per how the car feels on the track with this new setup.

Steve.
Team CW

Steve may be right on the wolfe opaque, try that.

Help me out. I do not see a opaque spring listed on the Wolfe site. What rating is it?

It comes in the spring kit that contains a pair of all the springs that Wolfe offers for the VCS shocks. I do believe it is an 11 lb spring. I know that it's one lb heavier than an associated blue, 1 lb lighter than a gold.

The Jet, moving the left in will put more weight on that wheel?

Thanks, CraigUnfortunately, I heard I'm wrong. Moving the LF in will tighten you up from center off. So you can do just the opposite then. Try them both ;) .

Later, Bret

The jet, thanks. I will keep trying until somethings works lol
Steve and Jason I will try the slightly heavier side springs and see what happens. I may get to practice on sat. We race on sun.
It seems at our track alot of people are talking about side bite and that seems to be the reason to run a white on the right rear or both rears.
Our track tightens up as the day goes on so its important not to get tight as it gets later in the day.
We all have tried washing our tires during the day to keep the bite down, they are sticky when they come off the track. We have to use jack or smell less paragon.

Thanks everyone, Craig

RC- I have had the best luck with the niftech compound when I can't run paragon.. that stuff seems to have the best grip. If you are having a problem with the car getting tight ad the day goes on, try not compounding the outer 1/3 of the right rear, and the inner 1/3 of the left rear. Progress with this until you are only doing a dauber width on the rear tires... that should help keep the car free. Something else to try would be to cut about 1/4 inch off the width of the rear tires, rim and all. That could help you out too, when going to the next harder tire is too much. Something else to think about.

Help me out. I do not see a opaque spring listed on the Wolfe site. What rating is it?
http://www.deccosoftware.com/forum/tech/SpringRates.htm

Wolfe opaques are 11lbs.

Steve.

Something else to try would be to cut about 1/4 inch off the width of the rear tires, rim and all. That could help you out too, when going to the next harder tire is too much. Something else to think about.
I tried this last week and had other kind of effects. I found it made the car tighter. The way I see it is you take a wide tire, the weight is spead across the whole thing. Where as if you narrow up the tire, you are taking that same amount of weight and putting on a smaller tire patch. It seems to tighten the car up. It is the same reason on a lot of cap tire tracks we run a narrow inside rear, because it tightens the car up. I could be way off, but that is what I have come to see in my setups.

I tried this last week and had other kind of effects. I found it made the car tighter. The way I see it is you take a wide tire, the weight is spead across the whole thing. Where as if you narrow up the tire, you are taking that same amount of weight and putting on a smaller tire patch. It seems to tighten the car up. It is the same reason on a lot of cap tire tracks we run a narrow inside rear, because it tightens the car up. I could be way off, but that is what I have come to see in my setups.
Hi Jamie,

It's not the first time I here this ... even if there is no common sense to this fact you experienced ... I understand it this way: If you were to run slightly to firm tire for the track surface you race on, then I believe it could improve traction since you increase the pound per square inch on the tire.

Steve.

Jamie, that's interesting. I understand what you are saying, and it's kind of like putting snow tires on a sports car vs. regular wide summer tires. You could be right, I haven't tried narrowing tires in a long time, but I don't rememebr that being the effect.

As for 6.1's problem, I would be curious to see what the effect is after he adds the side springs along with a couple of the other options that Steve and myself have suggested, see where that gets him. I suspect that will solve his problems, but if not, we'll ahve to see what else we can suggest.

6.1, if you try what we suggested, and don't get any positive results, try giving me a call during the week after 6 p.m., I'd be happy to try to help you out. Might be able to get somewhere alot quicker talking. My home # is (860) 872-4069 Feel free if you think that I may be able to help you out.

Yes a narrow rear tire gives more FOREWARD bit and less side bite. Depends on the radius of the turn and where slip angle changes to foreward. Same reason snow plows use narrow tires and drag cars use a very narrow rear track width; more straight line traction.

How many of you guys are running Steve's setup, and if you are, what kind of track?

I just ran mine for the first time at my home track (yea we're getting a late start) and it was more consistent than any car I've had. It was the first race of the season, so the bite was waaaaay down, but the car was really good.
I'm running Steve's setup except for the rear steer.

Steve have you changed anything in your setup from the beginning, and why??

How many of you guys are running Steve's setup, and if you are, what kind of track?

I just ran mine for the first time at my home track (yea we're getting a late start) and it was more consistent than any car I've had. It was the first race of the season, so the bite was waaaaay down, but the car was really good.
I'm running Steve's setup except for the rear steer.

Steve have you changed anything in your setup from the beginning, and why??
I only played with tires, springs and rear steer depending of the track I raced at.

Softer side springs to induce more chassis roll in order to create more side bite on low grip tracks.

Heavier front springs and slightly more preload on center spring on banked tracks.

St-Rock (slightly banked sweeping turns, low grip)
1/2 degree rear steer
LF progressive green spring and RF constant green spring
ae silver springs on side shocks

Granby and Plattsburg (flat paperclip turns, medium grip)
1/2 degree rear steer
LF progressive red spring and RF constant red spring
wolfe opaque springs on side shocks

Barre (banked paperclip turns, very low grip)
0 degree rear steer
LF progressive red spring and RF constant green spring
ae silver springs on side shocks

Steve.
Team CW