Last week I found a copy of the "recalled" Generations SE DVD. Given that the discs themselves are going to be the same in the set that is supposed to be released tomorrow, I went ahead and snatched it up.

Now, to me, this is one of my favorite Trek films. It isn't perfect, mainly because I don't think the bad guy is as strong as one would like, but it still has much to recommend it.

The movie itself looks good, except that it could have been cleaned a little more. Everything looks fine except that there's still plenty of dust on the print. And there was evidence of too much "edge enhancement" for my taste, visible mainly as unwanted sharp detail in faces. But otherwise the movie is fine.

As for the extras, the Okudas' text commentary is interesting as always, but I have a major quibble with the way it is presented. Where it previously resided mostly in the lower "black band" on the screen, this one has it in floating, semi-transparent "Okudagram"-style graphics. Fitting, I suppose, but it interferes with seeing the movie itself somewhat, which the previous format mostly did not.

The audio commentary is by Ronald D. Moore and Brannon Braga (yes, I know -- boo, hiss! :rolleyes: ) Interestingly, they don't sound as if they now hate one another's guts. And it would seem they did record the commentary together. They offer lots of opinions on what they now believe did and did not work in the final film -- had they to do it over again, they would have Kirk die on the bridge of a starship. As they explain, they didn't choose to do it that way because they wanted to do something unexpected with Kirk's Nexus fantasy, Kirk's meeting with Picard, and Kirk's death.

I found myself disagreeing strongly with their opinion of Picard's Nexus fantasy. They felt, in retrospect, that they should have done something different and that parts of what they did do were too treacly. I could see how they and others might feel that way, but I disagree. First, granted that there's "treacle," but this is Picard's fantasy of having a wife and family -- it makes sense in that respect. And I identify very strongly with Picard on this issue -- like him, I long for children of my own but am also terrified of the idea and the responsibility, so I cannot imagine what could have been a better subject, at least, for Picard's Nexus fantasy. I find it heartbreaking as it is, and to me it seems Picard made the more difficult decision than did Kirk.

One of the other interesting observations they make is that, more than the other films, this one is essentially Star Trek: The Next Generation, for good or ill. They note that upon finishing the final scene with Picard and Riker on the bridge of the downed Enterprise-D, most of the gathered crew were very emotional; this felt more like the end of the TV series than had completing "All Good Things ..."

Unfortunately, I can't comment on many of the remaining extras yet. There are deleted scenes on the second disc that are interesting -- Kirk's original death scene is included, but Soran's torture of Geordi is not.

Overall, I think this movie features possibly the strongest performances in the films from Stewart and Spiner, and Shatner's best since Star Trek III. I find the brief exchange on the bridge between Kirk and Chekov (CHEKOV: "I was never that young." KIRK: "No ... you were younger.") to be one of the most poignant in filmed Trek.

Qapla'

SSB

I watched all the extras and enjoyed them for the most part.

I was very disappointed that there wasn't much of the nearly-legendary orbital skydiving sequence. I guess they never shot the effects sequences, since all they have to show us is a workprint of Kirk landing and the brief discussion between him, Scotty and Chekov immediately afterward. Oh well.

I also notice an annoying trend in the interviews of the stars - it happened on the Nemesis extras, and here too. Both Stewart and Doohan, on different occasions, sit there describing the plot to us. Um. We know, we saw the film. Talk about something else - how you felt doing it, what went right or wrong with your performance or the filming, etc. I find listening to an actor describe the plot of a film I've seen in halting, uncertain terms is REAL boring.

Otherwise, the features are informative and interesting. The behind-the-scenes on the saucer crash was especially fascinating to me as a modeler (they got the shape of the windows wrong on the large edge section for the closeup!), and watching the ol' 6-footer working on the motion-control rig was fun.

The picture is better than the 1st DVD, not perfect but better. The anamorphic image looks good projected on a big screen. The DTS sound however was AWESOME! I really liked this movie and I think the fans were too hard on it. I hope when Nemesis hits DVD the second time it will be a director's cut with the "deleted" ending. I hope all the 2nd releases will have DTS sound. I felt the extras on Generations were lacking but better then the 1st DVD since there were none. I wish it had the trailers though.

watching the ol' 6-footer working on the motion-control rig was fun.
Yes, and I thought it was interesting how they talked about this film having been made right on the cusp of the transition from using models to CGI.

I was pleased to be vindicated in my belief that a couple of the shots of the E-D in the movie were actually shot way back for the series. I think they stand out pretty strongly in this version of the movie -- the green paint on the ship is quite visible in those shots.

Qapla'

SSB

I watched all the extras and enjoyed them for the most part.

I was very disappointed that there wasn't much of the nearly-legendary orbital skydiving sequence. I guess they never shot the effects sequences, since all they have to show us is a workprint of Kirk landing and the brief discussion between him, Scotty and Chekov immediately afterward.........
I have seen all of the deleted scenes. A not so chrisp copy is downloadable. Don't remember where from at the moment. I viewed the stuff and it is interesting. It does fill out the movie and give it meat.

Yes, and I thought it was interesting how they talked about this film having been made right on the cusp of the transition from using models to CGI.

I was pleased to be vindicated in my belief that a couple of the shots of the E-D in the movie were actually shot way back for the series. I think they stand out pretty strongly in this version of the movie -- the green paint on the ship is quite visible in those shots.

Qapla'

SSB

I haven't gotten the disk yet, but I'm interested to know why you felt you needed vindication on the stock shot issue. It has been very well documented nearly a decade back in CINEFEX and probably elsewhere that the shot prior to stellar cartog and one of the saucer sep shots were both stock from the first episode. Jeff Matakovitch of Optical Illusions re-comped -- OPTICALLY recomped, mind you -- the flyover/stellarcartog E-D shot because there was so much weave in the old film elements.

What really amazes me about this 2 disc DVD set is the PRICE. I paid, taxes in, $17.17 Canadian or about $13.21 US. That is dirt cheap!!

Huzz

I haven't gotten the disk yet, but I'm interested to know why you felt you needed vindication on the stock shot issue. It has been very well documented nearly a decade back in CINEFEX
I didn't read CINEFEX back then -- didn't know it existed at that point and I still don't find it all that often. I didn't really NEED vindication -- I was just happy my suspicions were correct. They were based on my idea that if they were going to shoot something like the saucer separation sequence for the film, why wouldn't they do the first part at a different angle from the one seen in the series? Since it was exactly the same, I always thought it might have been the same shot.

Qapla'

SSB

Those old shots stuck out like a sore thumb. There was still a lot of jigsawing in the element in the final comp.

I'm with Scott on the Okudagrams — too dang much like watching "Pop-up Video." In a few of the shots, movement in the background made reading the text tough. But all in all, I do like the SE; would've been nice to have the trailers, though.

Did anybody notice a logic error in Echo-Guinan's comment that she could not return from the Nexus with Picard because she was "already there".

If that is so, how could Picard return to the point in time because he also is "already there".

Similarly, as Kirk was not "already there", does that mean that either Kirk or Echo-Kirk could have returned with Picard?

"Was. It. Kirk. Or Echo-Kirk. that. Died there?"

Huzz

If that is so, how could Picard return to the point in time because he also is "already there".
I think this is the source of the idea upon which a few people have speculated -- that everything we've seen of the TNG crew since Picard was pulled into the Nexus has been a part of his true Nexus fantasy.

Maybe the original Picard vanished from existence when the later Picard emerged from the Nexus (and an observer -- Soran, perhaps -- would not have seen it if the later Picard assumed the same space). Assuming the "everything since is really inside the Nexus" theory is bunk -- as it certainly is -- there is the difference that Picard is not an echo and neither is Kirk.

And the question of whether there is an echo or either or both men that remains in the Nexus, I'd say the answer is no. They both left willingly; Guinan was transported away and would not have chosen to go on her own.

Qapla'

SSB

Its all meaningless speculation on my part naturally. And the clear intent of the movie is that the original Kirk dies at the end of the flic.

Of course, the potential future re-write that Kirk sends his echo back with Picard and remains in the Nexus is much less convoluted than the complex resurrection that Shatner himself puts forward in his novel "The Return". Fun books by the way for those who haven't read them.

Huzz

And the question of whether there is an echo or either or both men that remains in the Nexus, I'd say the answer is no. They both left willingly; Guinan was transported away and would not have chosen to go on her own.

That's always been my reasoning; Guinan and Soran were ripped away, leaving part of themselves in there. Notice that echo-Guinan knows Picard pretty well in the Nexus; that leaves room for speculation that there's some sort of connection between the echo and the person who was pulled out; it could be that's what Guinan's worked so hard to forget, and what drove Soran mad.

In terms of re-Picard being in the same place as Picard at the same time, well, that's when Moore and Braga's "out" comes into play — time has no meaning in the Nexus, so whether Picard was orginally in the same spot he came out of the Nexus is meaningless.