Just got my latest RevUp and I see that ROAR will make brushless motors legal in 2005. There will be two classes of motors limited by their winds... one is designed to perform about the same as a 10T motor and the other the same as a 27T motor.

Could be that within 5 years brushed motors will be a thing of the past!

only when trinity says so! lol

Now that there are rules on the motor, I think Trinity better jump to or they may be on the outside looking in as many others have already got systems they now just have to tweek. This would be a great time for other makers to take a lead in the motor world. Looking at the future, it might be much less than 5 years to see brushless take over. Watch out for 2006. I know I'd much prefer brushless now that there is a standard.

This is one case where the consumer has the power. Stop buying brushed motors and there is nothing Trinity (or any brushed motor manufacturer) can do about it.

That's like telling people don't buy Gas for a week the prices will come down.Folks just ain't gonna do that.

I think they will now that there are set rules for them and set classes to race them in. Before this there were no rules for anyone to follow and very few places to race them. I'll bet by the first of the year the vast majority of tracks will have at least one brushless class. Once people see the advantage and that the classes are active it will draw more and more into it. By the end of 2005 you'll have more brushless racers then brushed racers.

Could Li-Poly Batts not far behind to be ROAR legal. Li-Poly will give the power for brushless..............Awesome.....The hobby seems to be goin in the right direction......Back to the future.....beam me up Scotty !!!!!!:wave:

Henry E.

That's like telling people don't buy Gas for a week the prices will come down.Folks just ain't gonna do that.
Bad example. This is more of a Ford/Chevy choice than have gas or don't. Either type motor/esc combo will move your race car without any other changes to it.


Hankster - If you want to see a few in action, come up to Rider's in Grand Rapids on saturday. There's at least 4 of us running them.

I think that this is a great step. I also would like to know how much influence Novak had on the way the sensors are wired. I think it is very convinent that the rules are made so only the Novak motor is legal.

I know that the one company that begins with a H (I can't remember the name) has a far better system but the snesor wires are not in the right order.

I've also heard that soem of the other companies are thinking about sueing because of the order of the sensor wires. Something about there is no industry standard so why should ROAR makes rules like that.

This is all stuff I have heard and would liek to see if others have heard stuff like that.

I also think that maybe it is time to take away some of the rules on the brushed motors as I am sure there is something like a 5 pole motor that will beat all others of something like that.

I'm not getting on anybody I would just liek to see what everyone thinks. After being at the Novak TC race earlier this year and seeing how long the cars can run I think the future is here and I would love to see what it has to bring.

Jeep, what is a LI-Poly battery?

Xpressman - I believe the Hacker system is sensorless (which the rules allow), so it wouldn't rule them out. (I thought we all tried to AVOID racing against hackers??:) ) They list their motors as having 7 or 8 turns, not 7-1/2, so I don't know if they're wound as a "Y" or a "delta".

Not subscribing to the conspiracy theory, I think they specified the sensor connector details to CREATE an industry standard, which would make it possible for a motor builder to make motors to run on anybody's "sensored" ESC, and ESC makers could connect to anybody's sensored motor. This way, a company could compete without having to build both motor and ESC. None of this really mattered when all we had was 2 wires, but now it does. Imagine how bad it would be if 7 different brands chose 7 different connectors, pinouts, polarities, etc. It's bad enough now that speed control manufacturers have to ship 3-4 different hoods for the receiver plug.

5-pole motors? Sounds like the old Astro-Flight ones, which I think had (illegal) cobalt magnets. Personally, I think we already see too many motor design variations with minimal benefits and maximum hype. Unless someone can find a way to get 10% more efficiency or 10x brush/comm life, I say leave it alone. (Cobalt or rare-earth magnets might just be a worthwhile change.)

LI-Poly batteries can not yet supply the currents that RC cars require. I believe the last I read the maximum amp draw was 20 amps... over that and the results were "attention getting"!

I've also heard that soem of the other companies are thinking about sueing because of the order of the sensor wires. Something about there is no industry standard so why should ROAR makes rules like that.
Who said that off-road rims have to be 2.2"? If I made 2.5 rims could I sue ROAR? What about my motors with Colbat magnets? Or bodies that are longer (or shorter) then the rules allow? Hey, my batteries are too big (remember the first GPs?) so I think I'll sue! My "stock" motors have quad magnets... time to sue! Only believe half of what you hear ;)

I agree with creating the standard now before brushless really gets popular and many racer's equipment doesn't conform.

LI-Poly batteries can not yet supply the currents that RC cars require. I believe the last I read the maximum amp draw was 20 amps... over that and the results were "attention getting"!

I've seen lipo's power brushless trucks, and the speed was amazing. The runtime was in the 45 minute range. The guy who had one, has also built a custom 1/8 electric buggy out of a nitro 1/8 chassis. It might have been a MP 7.5, but I'm not sure.

Thanks for the correction... I hadn't looked into them for awhile!

A quick search comes up with this:

Thunder Power "Dynamic Power" LiPo Electric Flight Pack
8000 mAh, 2S4P cells (7.4V), 13 gauge wires
Rating: 5C Max Avg. Discharge (40 amps)
Output:7.4V Nominal, 8200mAh
Applications: Sub C replacement for 3D aircraft and helicopters
Dimension: 50mm x 125mm x 28mm (313gr)
Price: $179.00

I've said it before, i don't like the concept of brushless. Who wants to run with everyone having an equal motor. I take much more pride in tweaking a motor to run better than the next guy. Plus with the current brushless technology(i am pretty sheltered on what is really out there) it sounds like we are going to run 10t mod brushless motors?? Guess us oval Jockey's will have to go back to 6 cell!!

If the day comes when i have to run brushless, i'll probably watch the R/C world from the seat of a go-kart or something.

Say it ain't so!

Danny B.

I fly airplanes, electric of course. I am flying a GWS spitfire with a Himaxx 2015-5400 brushless motor, with a 3 cell 2100 lipo, I`ll tell you I flew it stock, with a speed 300 brush motor, and a 8 cell AAA, then I switched to the brushless. Its like I put nitro in it, the thing is incredible.

I've ben running brushed motors since 1988, and frankly I am ready for brushless. So I bought one. This past weekend I ran it at a two day race. I got to go and visit with all my buddies while they were cutting coms and soldering brushes. All I had to do was put in another battery and I was all set. My lathe, brushes, serrator, motor cleaner, etc etc sat in the box. Let me tell you it was great. And the rules at this track are Mod is Modified as in other than 'Stock'

Look this is going to happen, and maybe it will put some of the "FUN" back into racing and even attract some new folks. When something is simplified it usually becomes more fun, and this is why I do it.

Toy cars racing for bowling trophies!

Just lighten up and enjoy it.

all i am going to say is. i don't like it. idon't think i have ever seen a brushless win in oval? call me old fashion, but i want to see the guinipigs run them before i waste my money. man did everyone see all the brushless systems in factory drivers cars? no because they won't use them either. it's a pointless arguement. brush motors still have all the power!

'oval jockeys going back to six cell'

I too have not paid much attention to the brushless systems out there... Do any of them even work at 4.8 volts? If there are some that do, are they potentialy ROAR legal?

FYI

If you don't have the Revup handy... ROAR has some details here...

http://www.roarracing.com/rules/index.htm

I also answered my own question... I downloaded the manual for the Novak supersport brushless system, and the input voltage is '4 to 7 cells' (1.2 volt/cell)

The brushless motors are just starting out. They are new and need a lot of on track testing and refinement. I'd bet you see a several different motors by each manufacturer. If you think brushed is going to last, your going to be mistaken. Brushed will end up a low end "RTR" and racing will move to brushless. The thing will be not do you have a lot of high dollar tools to work on motors, but can you program it well. I think the greatest pressure to go to this will be TCO (total cost of ownership). With no brushes, com cutting, little or no motor cleaner, brush tools, etc., you sure can see its cheep to go brushless. This puts it more on driving than $ in the pits. That will usually equate to more racers at the track, a good thing.

ROAR 2004 addendum
Brushless Electric
Note 2 / Note 3
"An inductance reading is very easily obtained from a Brushless Motor without unsoldering or taking the motor out of the car."

What exactly is the range that it's supposed to read? I've seen two iterations of this rule and neither has mentioned a value.

I will admit I am clueless when it comes to brushless systems.
If another brushless motor comes out will you need another ESC to go with it?

I know in oval we pretty much average a different set of motors each year and usually need to buy a bunch to have a good select few.
Will brushless be the same way, motor of the month? cause if so that could get real expensive with the current prices?

The wiring specs should eliminate the need to buy matched sets of motors/ESCs. I suppose as with anything there will be improvements along the way. A brushless motor is about $80.00, a brushed mod motor is about $60.00. Now add in the brushes you have to change every couple runs, the brush springs, the comm lathe, the dyno, etc. and you can see that brushless is no more expensive.

If a new motor comes out, the old brushless is almost "in new" condition and you should be able to easily sell it for half price ($40.00) to some backyard basher or someone that doesn't need the latest and greatest to race with. How much are well used brushed mod motors worth... if you can even sell them?

Also, runtime should be less critical as you can easily get 7 minutes out of brushless "mod" motor.

I've said it before, i don't like the concept of brushless. Who wants to run with everyone having an equal motor. I take much more pride in tweaking a motor to run better than the next guy. Plus with the current brushless technology(i am pretty sheltered on what is really out there) it sounds like we are going to run 10t mod brushless motors?? Guess us oval Jockey's will have to go back to 6 cell!!

If the day comes when i have to run brushless, i'll probably watch the R/C world from the seat of a go-kart or something.

Say it ain't so!

Danny B.

Unfortunately, this is the attitude I've come to expect from today's crop of oval racers (but not from Danny, who is widely regarded as a great driver :confused: ). It's also the reason I've quit racing pan car oval. It seems that oval racers WANT to spend hours working on motors and tuning the chassis, with the race result much more dependent on what you do with the wrenches than with the transmitter.

Back when pan cars ran 6 cells, a 10-turn was considered a fast motor, and you had to actually let off the throttle in the turns. Today, most of the oval racers in Michigan run either 19-turn or stock, with the trigger planted all the way around on all but the smallest tracks. Running a 10-turn would be a big improvement.

it's all speculation..but i would bet with the advent of brushless motors will come a whole new set of ways we would tune our motors..at least in oval anyways...

for one..a brushless motor is tuneable..via a computer..wonder how many ways there are to hack a brushless motor to make it run like a 6 turn? what values can you tweak? will the pro's have access to such knowledge?

if you think the brushless motor will perform like new after 15 runs on a oval i think you may be wrong? i think there will still be many ways to tweak these things...like i said as soon as trinity has a full color add in carhaction brushless still rides in the back seat. i'm willing to bet though that brushless motors will be just as easy to tune or cheat with as a brushed motor. and i'm willing to bet the oval heads would find ways to make them run faster and would also find they run better with some kind of maitenance as well? when a brushless system wins mod at the birds we all know it is here..otherwise hobby bobby and his monster truck will be the consumer for these things..your gonna have to beat me in mod with one before i go buy one...speaking as a oval racer...but i'm not gonna say i will never use one..nor will i say in the future we may all be using one..so far i'm not blown away with any of the current brushless motors.. besides i own a lathe,dyno and brushes now..i also own a keyence speedo or three..i guess they all just get thrown away? ouch

I'm deffintely in agreement with Kat's opion that along with brushless motors will come new ways to tweak motors... this time it will be done with software, and in the begining ONLY the factory guys will have access to the tweaks... Over time tweaks will become part of the package and/or available to the masses. Maybe there will always be some tweaks only available to those that have inside or excpetional knowlege of how the stuff works... at the very minimum, the guy who learns the most how to take advantage of the tweaking will go faster then the next guy...

In my opion brushless should never be thought of a equalizer of any sort. There may be less maintaince and other bennifits, but I don't buy the argument that it will somehow even the playing feild as far as motors are concerned...

Quite frankly... I'd love to have a brushless system, and a slick computer program that allowed me to tweak every single parameter there is to tweak... and maybe even allow you to create your own tweaks... I'm a nerd by nature, and I love tweaking things wether or not it's tweaking brush hoods or software parameters, makes no differiance to me...

all you guys still have to remember that you must be able to drive that brushless motor. meaning car setup!
i have seen brushless motors in off road. i have had a better handling car and beat them. i also think that there will be tracks that the motor wont respond to as well as a brushed motor, where as you can tune the brushed motor the brushless you cant.
i am no where ready to start with brushless. orion has made big advancment with there v2 motors and the duration between rebuilds.

First off, i was a little frank with my comments about brushless. The top drivers will always be the last to fold when it comes to something like this. Look how long it took 4-cell oval racing to be recognized nation wide! Much like 4-cell this isn't going to happen over night and it will definately happen in on-road and off-road first.

My biggest concern is what happens to the smaller motor companies that have families and such to feed? Fantom, Putnam, Kisbey, KC etc etc. Trinity and Reedy have enough revenue from other areas to survive and the means to have their own brushless systems if they wanted to do it. What about the little guys???

Whenever i get to see a big on-road or off-road race it doesn't really look like Blackstock or Kinwald just sit around between rounds BS'ing. They work their butts off. Probably do more maintenance work for one round on a TC or off-roader than I do all day on an oval car.

Another concern...say we are at the snowbirds, anyone who's anyone is there. we're all running brushless(putting aside possible tweaks) we all have pretty equal motors. The top group of guys is going to have their cars dialed and everyone can flat out wheel at a race like that. So whats missing from the equation?? BATTERIES!!!

From what i've heard the efficency of brushless runtime issues would be down next to not a problem, so to make the motor run faster the only way is add voltage! Well, they'll probably make all races longer which should bring runtime back into the equation but since we can't really turn up the juice...yet...the most voltage and runtime will have an advantage! Bust out the 1400's BATTERY WARS are back!!!

I just want to see that the positives and the negatives are counted. I like the way cars are run now. Batteries are fairly equal and at least around me car counts have been going up. What's good for the goose may not be good for the gander!

Strikes me as the same wars, new things to fight over. Some mod motors run better than others, whos to say it wont be the same with BL? Will we have companies specially winding a BL motor? And if you want to run the new "Novak 8x2 BL", you have to buy the whole motor not just an arm. And from the looks of it, a BL motor is more expensive than a new arm.

And then there are gonna be all the same things that we have for brushed motors...magnets will still need zapping? If they really do make incredible power, will something we havent thought of wear out? Maybe the controller overheats and blows up when you run a 3:1 final drive in your TC "because I can".

Too much of an unknown for my taste

I say Amen! Lets use the technology! Brushes are going to be a thing of the past! Thank you Novak for "sticking yer neck out"!

There are indeed good points and bad points to everything. As Danny pointed out some of the first people to be effected by this are the people who make their living building and tuning brushed motors. I feel for them... however the same type of thing happens in the rest of the world, some things become obsolete, and people need to change to accomidate the changes thrust opon them. It's not always fun, and some people will deffintely loose out. I'm not sure it's ROAR's obligation to keep things like this from happening however.

One interesting thing I've heard a little about... Big Jim claims that brushed motors could be just as effcient and/or powerfull as a bushless motor if things such as exotic magnets and 5 segment armatures were used in them...

In the end, I beleive it is/will be the market itself that determins if or when the brushed motors go away... as long as people still buy brushed motors, someone will sell them, and more then likely ROAR will continue to allow them....

I'll likely stay out of the brushless game untill at least half of the local drivers switch...

I beleive the brushless controlers will change more frequently then the motors themselves will... and I also predict that once the brushless gets going full swing, you will see frequent changes in controlers as various companys try to out do one another and try to get more of our $$$...

I put one in my TC3 "O" and love it!!! I hate all the maintenance that goes with a brushed MOD motor. Performance is on par with any vehicle on the track. NOW if the driver could just "BRUSH" up on his driving skills!! LOL!

We are all sitting here and speculating. Who knows what will come about with the changes of the future. One thing will always remain constant, the best handling car will still be the fastest!

S & B

Hi All,
It seems to me that everyone is starting to get on edge with this announcement. People are saying there are going to be so many more ways to cheat with brushless motors but I want to know just how many more ways are there to cheat with a brush motor set-up. Another question--just how are you going to change the programing in the speed control when there no where to plug it in? I suppose you could upgrade the components in the speed control but that is above my education level and i don't ever plan on trying it. I also believe that it will hurt the smaller companies like putnam and kisbey just to name a few but it will take time for this to develope into a cost effective situation with the current price of a NOVAK which is around $240 I believe. Around my local tracks i would say over 20-25 people have gone brushless and would never go back (I own two myself). My last point refers to the comment about how companies will release various speed controls trying out do their competition. Whats the difference between now and then? There are many companies that have an immense amount of speed controls that have become "absolete" do to competition. Take NOVAK for example how many speed controls do they have--fifteen different ones? My point is that it's the companies job to get their consumers money. I might be putting my foot in my mouth here but has there ever been any company that didn't want to make as much money as possible? I don't want to start any arguments about this as I am just stating what i think Later--Zack

lets see....cost....
Brushed:
1) Mod motor: $60 (if you only use one... yea... right)
2) Brushes for motor over life of motor: $12+
3) Lathe: $120+
4) Brush hood tool: $10
5) Motor spray, com sticks, oil, etc. : $15+++++++
6) ESP: $110+
Total: $327 (plus additional arms and parts you might need to get
the same life span as brushless.)
Brushless:
1) NOVAK: $240
2) cleaning materials $15+
Total: $255
The cost factor alone (yes, debate all you want on line item costs, the point is the same) will push brushless to the front of racing as its affordable to more racers. The top guys typically do not spend as much or are just running sponsors equipment. It’s the average guy out at his small local track and the back yard basher that pays the bucks to keep the manufacturers in the in the black.

Alot of the profromance and operational issues of a brushless system are controled by software. Software can always be changed... maybe not easly by the average person in some cases, but for those who do the programing at the factory, they certinly can make modifications and/or one off versions of the basic software. Some very knowleable outsiders could also modifiy the software with enough desire and effort.

Many modern forms of electronic equipment allow you to update the software realtively easily. Many modern forms of electronics actualy run a version of DOS, that is fairly easy for a average programer to edit. Take for instance the Canon Digital Rebel SLR camera... It sells for around $1000... The Canon 10D sells for about $1500 and has some features that the Rebel doesn't have... well you can find hacked versions of the Rebel software that allow you to make a Rebel proform very simmilar to the 10D... This can all be downloaded over the internet and then you can update your Rebel yourself... None of this is endorsed or even desireable to Canon... but hit happens and like pirated music... there isn't really any way to stop it...

Many DVD players are being hacked these days as well... people do all sorts of things to modern electronics, simply because a large portion of the functionality of the product is based on software.

Back to Brushless... I bet there are ways to modify the timing advance within the software... there probably are ways to make it adjustable depending on load, or other factors... Traction control or something resembling it is probably also entirely possible with only software changes. Braking force and maybe even anti-lock braking is also probably realtively easy to achive with software changes to a brushless system. I beleive it's just a matter of time before we see these things happen, either direct from the manufacture, or possibly direct from some hacker. (not the company named hacker)

But with the tweeking comes a way to verify if tweeking has been done. By using a computer to plug into the speed control and "see" the software program. As simple as changing the profile in you KO speedo now. I like brusshless. It is all most unlimited HP.

Lots of good points here. Taking a step back, it sure seems like we are headed toward an F1 mentality that has been prevalent in 1/8th scale for years. Judging by 1/8th scale numbers, and the domination exemplified by the 2004 FIA season, is this really the direction we need to be taking things???

There will always be an advantage to having better batteries regardless of what motor you're using. The factory drivers will always get the better cells because they are factory drivers. Brushless won't make the battery war any worse. In fact, for the casual user it will make batteries less of an issue.

The current OEM's (mom and pops) will still buy motor "R" or "O" and wind the can to their specs. The two things that will hurt the small companies are longer lasting motors (we buy less) and the loss of consumable items like brushes and springs. These companies will have to start selling other consumable items to make up the differance.

With the current 8 turns (except the Orion) you're going to spend about $20 a race day on brushes. Even the Orion motors will use up a set of brushes in one day. The weekly brush savings is a huge improvement that can't be ignored.

BTW: The brushless motors (at least the Novak) use neodymium magnets and they won't demagnetize like the magnets in our brushed motors. When they say low maintenance, they really do mean it.

One interesting thing I've heard a little about... Big Jim claims that brushed motors could be just as effcient and/or powerfull as a bushless motor if things such as exotic magnets and 5 segment armatures were used in them
And what would those cost? Look at current Colbat motors and they are priced at $200+, close the price of a full BL motor/ESC combo. Then you still have the consumables such as brushes and springs

now this is good...

ok, here's the thing.. ROAR sets guidelines for ROAR sanctioned events. ROAR does NOT mandate to manufacturers how to make their products. If the company wants to make a product for a racer to compete in ROAR events, they can and will do so. Basically, ROAR is about a standard set of rules and guidelines to mandate the running of ROAR events - not to dictate what YOU purchase.

Hank, the wheel thing was a good example. ROAR rules state what the wheel size can be to be considered legal in ROAR sanctioned events - which, that one, follows IFMAR policies for Worlds event participation. Proline had a situation with their molding process and it came to light with the new wheels about a year ago. ROAR allowed these wheels a 180 day grace period to allow Proline to retool the mold, for those who plan on competing in ROAR events. Coincidentally, Losi had the exact same issue with 4wd fronts.....

Brushless is here to stay. NOVAK DID NOT dictate the policies. There are 5 manufacturers following the basic set of guidelines we have established and will put into place for the next rule book. Again, these are basic guidelines that will be revamped as time goes on and technology increases and the needs and wants of the MEMBERSHIP requests it. :)

I hope I put some of the negative aspect of this new class into ROAR aside? Growth in the sport is what will keep it around.. not negating a new idea....

Dawn, given the rules as stated right now, what motors could meet this spec if submitted? Have any been submitted?

Some of the (proposed) Li-Poly solutions I've seen would put two or three cells in a parallel. Put a couple of those stacks in series and you've got something that produces 7.2V and can easily handle 30-40 amp draw. And the net weight would still be less than NiMH for the same capacity.

NiMH are still a great deal (from both a performance, reliability and price standpoint), so I don't see LiPoly storming into the land-based RC market any time soon.

Some have said that some manufacturers present BL motors do not follow ROAR wiring standard with a comment that they are thinking of suing. We have to look at ROAR's recent history and how they have worked with manufacturers to help them become compliant. In the case stanted above, Pro-line was allowed a waver. We also know that GP was allowed a waver.

Why wouldn't these motor manufacturers approch ROAR asking for a waver instead of talking about suing. Maybe they could offer an adaptor that would convert their present wiring scheme to the ROAR standard with the understanding that new products will conform. I bet ROAR would be open to something like this... they are not here to hurt manufactuers and in fact have worked with them to help them make their current products usable at ROAR races.

LiPo cells are great for receiver cells and for smaller vehicles like mini T's but they can't source the current necesary for even stock racing at this time. Because of the high current spikes involved, the cells would heat up reducing their lifespan.


Has anyone seen what happens to a LiPo cell when it's dead shorted? It's pretty impressive. Just one of the reasons that they aren't a good option yet.

There are cells in the works that would actually handle the current but they're not LiPo and they're a couple of years out.

One interesting thing I've heard a little about... Big Jim claims that brushed motors could be just as effcient and/or powerfull as a bushless motor if things such as exotic magnets and 5 segment armatures were used in them...
With all due respect to Big Jim, the brushed motor has a commutator, which puts it at an inherent disadvantage. The brushes have resistance and friction, and the comm wears and gets out-of-round, none of which is present in a brushless.

I personally find it doubtful that Joe Racer (or even Joe Software Hacker Racer) is going to be able to reverse-engineer Novak's software (in machine code, NOT DOS) and re-write it to make it run better than the guys that designed it. Most of the "tweaking" that goes on with brushed motors is finding the right brush/spring combo and keeping the comm perfectly round. The only brushed motor variable that might apply to brushless is timing, but I suspect the manufacturers have already found the optimal timing point and ship them that way. The other big variable in brushed motors is the magnets & can they're in. Ceramic magnets aren't as consistant as the rare-earth ones used in brushless motors. As already mentioned, the neodymium magnets in the rotor aren't going to lose strength, so magnet zapping isn't an issue.

I've been running a Novak brushless since the outdoor season started (8-10 race days), and it hasn't lost any performance that I can detect. The only complaint anyone has had with them (there are 4-6 of us using them) is that when you over-gear them, the ESC shuts down due to overheating. If you wait 20-30 seconds, it cools off and you can keep racing. Compare this to a brushed mod motor. When you over-gear one of them, what could happen is:
A-You dump the battery
B-The brushes fry
C-The comm gets torn up
D-The windings fry
E-The magnets get hot & lose strength
F-Any combination of A through E

And here's some fun info for Glenn (a.k.a. DynoMoHum)

NOVAK SS5800 MOTOR SPECS (FROM NOVAK):
POWER RATING : 196 Watts
SPEED : 5800 RPM/Volt
TORQUE : 0.45 in-oz/Amp

ACTUAL TURBO-DYNO NUMBERS AT 6.7 Volts:
RPM TORQ WATTS EFF% AMPS
29767 3.6 80 80 14.9
27893 5.1 107 79 20.0
26406 6.6 130 77 24.8
25166 8.2 153 75 30.0
24106 9.5 170 72 24.9
23062 10.9 186 68 40.0
22244 12.1 199 65 45.0

Hey Hank, how come the columns don't line up anymore when you use the "code" tags??