I can say its a misconception and has no merit because that is "my experience and opinion" (as I stated) of being one of those people that could be a case study of the exact demographic of people being discused.....an extreme newbie who races at the Gate and the fairgrounds and enjoys the Gate and the people who race/run it and is one of the 10-15 people showing up every week. I'm not trying to argue with you and I agree with you (whether my opinion is right or wrong) that "we need to figure out how to make the Gate better and more appealing to a larger population."

FYI: I am 1/2 of everyones favorite architectsYes you are 1/2 of everyones favorite architects! LOL I thought thats who you were but not sure, seeing how I havent been there at all this summer ;)

TC3 does not have an upperdeck. You have to make one or buy one. You probably dont need one if you dont mill out the chassis. If I remember, you used to mill out the chassis so you may or may not want to get an upper deck. I dont think you have to have it....Blackstock runs a milled chassis without a deck....I think he does ok with it.

I dont get this no fun thing....we have a blast out there. The summer program is laid back. Yeah...when jimmy punked me he knew about it but we have fun. If you have been there on a race day and not had a good time then that is news to many.

Is the TC3 still competitive? I am thinking of picking one up tonight! All this talk about that gate has got me feeling the on-road racer in me comming out. I don't think anyone thinks this place sucks and I don't think it has a bad name, but there needs to start being more fun out there. I don't want to see the place go away so I will do my part to keep it here if we can change the night. Oh and I would definetly race any day but Friday and Wednesday. Maybe a Staurday race here and there wouldn't hurt you guys. That would definetly get me out there.

The TC3 has the upper deck on it, what else would I need?

Just some quick comments.

There will always be some people intimitated by comming to a new track. The way to help these people is by encouraging them, telling them about the Novice class, clinics, etc.

For other people, they may not be intimitated, perhaps there are personality conflicts.There will always be differences of opinions, some people just get along better than others.

My feeling is that if you enjoy racing, the Gate welcomes you.

Regardless of any one opinion, we need to consider all of the reasons why entries may be down. My personal reason for not running every race or practice during the summer is that it is just too nice outside, and I do have other interests. R/C racing for me is the perfect winter sport. In Cleveland, you have to take advantage of nice days when they are here.

Some examples of what people are doing:
Ray Longatino runs go-karts, up into the fall
Dave Mog is getting married, not that he has been on the racing circut much, but just an example off what others may be doing.
Others might be running off-road or gas. There are a number of possiable reasons.

Perhaps one part of the solution to increase attendence is as simple as the day of the week. We will never find one day in the week which will accomidate 100% of the people. Majority should rule, and that is what Jimmy is trying to accomplish with having practice days. I am sure there are other things we can do as well. I would love to run an enduro race. Summer may be the perfect time to fit it in.

There may be some who stop racing to save up money, and are only there to make the show, or the the A-main. I am sure there are some out there.

I strive to make the A at our club events, but at Large events, I can only do the best I can do. Read my post above about having fender to fender racing with Ray and others. I have ALWAYS found a close races, regardless of if the were in the A,B F or G main, are what racing is all about.

For some, being ultra competitive is the only thing. For others on tighter budgets, running what you brung is what it is about. Some just starting are thrilled to fininsh a who raceday without breaking or completing a 5 minute races. Whatever catagory you fall into, you will have competition.

If anyone is interested in having a Club meeting. Let me know.

Joneser - I think that the intention of my post was a little misconstrued. I was not referring in any way to things that either did occur or are occurring at the Gate because I have never raced there. I was just making a comment that is geared towards r/c racing in general, just so happened to be in this thread about this particular track. I know that there are ways to be creatively competitive while keeping costs to a minimum, but my point was what happens when that is all that is limiting you? It's hard to take a "so be it, that's how it goes" attitude towards it - not saying you are - but a lot of people take for granted that everyone can be on that level. Again I reiterate that I in no way was referencing anything to do with the track or its affiliated people - racers or operators. In fact, if I had the time and the money I would love to come join you guys, but sadly it is not possible. The best I can muster at this time is a couple weekends out on the Hobbytown parking lot - pushing my vintage tc3, tekin g12, 2000's, and 2 yr old motor around just for the fun of some bumper rubbin. Best of luck to you guys as you try to revitalize what sounds like a great program.

-Corey

Corey...I understood what you meant and my entire post was no in response to yours. your post did not sound like you were saying anything happened at the gate. I just thought that I would say that I know that I probably wont win when I show up but I have different goals. To some I look good out there but I am still learning. If I had to win to have fun then I should have quit a long time ago. I am so freaking competitive its not funny but as long as I am improving then I know I have a chance to win regularly someday. If you dont stay committed then you have to do it for fun....you cant win if you are not committed. And then some say you should be "committed" for what you do to try to win.:rolleyes: Joneser - I think that the intention of my post was a little misconstrued. I was not referring in any way to things that either did occur or are occurring at the Gate because I have never raced there. I was just making a comment that is geared towards r/c racing in general, just so happened to be in this thread about this particular track. I know that there are ways to be creatively competitive while keeping costs to a minimum, but my point was what happens when that is all that is limiting you? It's hard to take a "so be it, that's how it goes" attitude towards it - not saying you are - but a lot of people take for granted that everyone can be on that level. Again I reiterate that I in no way was referencing anything to do with the track or its affiliated people - racers or operators. In fact, if I had the time and the money I would love to come join you guys, but sadly it is not possible. The best I can muster at this time is a couple weekends out on the Hobbytown parking lot - pushing my vintage tc3, tekin g12, 2000's, and 2 yr old motor around just for the fun of some bumper rubbin. Best of luck to you guys as you try to revitalize what sounds like a great program.

-Corey

Pete .....the real reasons you are not racing all the time this summer is:

1. you are out running around in that new chick magnet of yours. I heard your pickup line is "hey baby...I get 55 miles to the gallon"

2. You are embarrassed at the A$$ kicking you are receiving in fantasy racing.

3. You were embarrassed at losing to a guy running a radio backwards

4. you and your brother lost one of your two way radios

5. you and mog are recreating the drive accross the country from the movie Rainman

I look forward to racing with you next week!

What ever did happen to Tony Williams? Does anybody know? Is he in Jail or what?

I have been proposing a Expert Stock class for awhile now. This would allow those with smaller budgets, etc to compete more fairly for TQ and A-Mains!!

Of course-there is the problem of excluding someone from running in it or bumping someone into the class from Stock-stock. The other problem is on slower nights, there arent enoug people to support two stock classes.

But in the fall-this could go a long way to encouraging participation from alltypes of people. I am sure it is very frustrating to get motored or batteried and know you have no access to the killer packs, new tires that the top sponsored stock guys get.

Ray

Tony NO Here!


We have no idea at this point. Very odd!

Ray Huang....call me at work

Do any of you guys actually have a job that requires you to do something productive? These are some monster posts!:)

Yes Dave...I do. This week I have been writing business requirements and they get boring...have to go off and have a little fun :thumbsup:

Do any of you guys actually have a job that requires you to do something productive? These are some monster posts!:)

I took the Thursday and Friday off. Getting some rest before I go down to Burke for the rest of the evening and tomorrow!!!

I'm starting to feel left out, so here's my opinion for what it's worth. I've been racing for 12 years, pretty much with the same group of guys. From Don's shop to the Brat to the Gate. I personally can't imagine there being a nicer, more helpful crowd of racers than the group at the Gate. Whenever i've asked for help or advice, it's been offered in spades. In return, I try to help as much as I can when asked by a new racer or the track. I try not to take the fortunate situation that we have as racers here in Northeast Ohio for granted. I love this hobby so much. As for the new guys coming in, maybe those of us who have been around for a while should be a little more proactive in helping them out. We shouldn't wait for them to approach us for help. We should approach them and offer it. Imagine how comfortable it would make a rookie feel. Remember your first day of racing? How about your first day of school or new job? It's the same thing. As a buisness owner, i've always been reminded about one thing. PERCEPTION IS REALITY. With employees and customers alike. Enough said.

Pete .....the real reasons you are not racing all the time this summer is:

1. you are out running around in that new chick magnet of yours. I heard your pickup line is "hey baby...I get 55 miles to the gallon"

2. You are embarrassed at the A$$ kicking you are receiving in fantasy racing.

3. You were embarrassed at losing to a guy running a radio backwards

4. you and your brother lost one of your two way radios

5. you and mog are recreating the drive accross the country from the movie Rainman

I look forward to racing with you next week!
Joneser, your on to me. At least I having given you the opportunity to kick my @$$ in Golf too!

On the other hand, I did talk to the Rainman . . . I mean Dave Mog, and he might be able to run 12th next week. Stay tuned. He might have to stop at K-mart first. :)

I have been proposing a Expert Stock class for awhile now. This would allow those with smaller budgets, etc to compete more fairly for TQ and A-Mains!!

Of course-there is the problem of excluding someone from running in it or bumping someone into the class from Stock-stock. The other problem is on slower nights, there arent enoug people to support two stock classes.

But in the fall-this could go a long way to encouraging participation from alltypes of people. I am sure it is very frustrating to get motored or batteried and know you have no access to the killer packs, new tires that the top sponsored stock guys get.

Ray
Ray, I respectfully disagree with you on this point. I don't think that more classes is the answer. I do agree there should be a Novice Class, but to have a Mod, Expert stock, 19 turn, stock, is just too many classes for a club level event. I don't like running the "flavor of the week".

The only way drivers are going to get better, is by practice, and having something to strive for. Now I don't have a problem with a few guys wanting to run their own class if they have something different like an F1 car.

I just think that the more people in a class, the better the competition.

Not to butt in, but i do know that 2 tracks in my area, Trackside in Milwaukee and RSJ north of Chicago both have a expert stock and a stock or "super stock" for the "regular" guys. Both tracks seem to do very well with this concept. RSJ especially has a good super stock class which has actually produced 2 or 3 good "expert" racers. There are also several guys who seem to be content with super stock who also put $$$$$$ in the register. They enjoy themselves and race. The experts do too, on their level. Some of the guys move up, and some don't. But the track is still there....

Hi,

A little change of topic - on my 1/12 scale I have the camber set at -1.5 degrees. The tires are not wearing flat (inside of tire is smaller than outside).

Should I be adjusting the camber for less negative camber until the tires are wearing flat?

Thanks,

Adam

I have been proposing a Expert Stock class for awhile now. This would allow those with smaller budgets, etc to compete more fairly for TQ and A-Mains!!

Of course-there is the problem of excluding someone from running in it or bumping someone into the class from Stock-stock. The other problem is on slower nights, there arent enoug people to support two stock classes.

But in the fall-this could go a long way to encouraging participation from alltypes of people. I am sure it is very frustrating to get motored or batteried and know you have no access to the killer packs, new tires that the top sponsored stock guys get.

Ray
I've been reading your thread a bit,I have personally witnessed the demise of my home track just this week and I can tell you,it is a helpless feeling.
If I could of saved it by myself,I would of.
The reasons are many,but it came down to 2 distinct things-1-Hobby town opening near by and-2-a slow but steady down turn in the number of racers.
Being an indoor carpet track(oval and road course)it would boom in the months and weeks heading into the indoor champs,then have a heavy drop off after the big race.The last couple of years this has turned into a very heavy drop off.Why?My guess is as good as yours.I personally enjoy being outside and racing something a little different,offroad.But I still attempted to support the hobby shop at my home track(tires wheels etc.),it just wasn,t enough.
I don't have many suggestions for you guy's,but the few times I've raced at the Gate I found it to be a very good experience.I didn't see any arrogance or class envy at all,I truelly had a great time,and I will be back!
One suggestion,We had started a spec. class in oval,actually 2 spec classes.One was regular Nascar with spec batteries(4-cell) and motors,the other was the "Bomber" class,same chassis as Nascar but with 55 Chevy or 56 Ford bodies and a spec spur gear(120 tooth),same spec batteries and motors also.
A sedan spec class would be easier than you think,limit the "spec" part to motor and batteries only,leave the chassis decision up to the racers own choice.In our case this worked very well,there was no cheating and everyone could tell if you tried.We left the policing up to the racers and it woked out pretty well.It evens out the playing field quite well.These setups are by no meens slow,The spec motors run very well and the batteries were fine for a 4 or 5 min race.It was a challenge for both beginners and veterans alike,puts a heavy focus on car setup and clean driving,just what a beginner needs to focus on.
I don't know how bad your situation is at the Gate,but please do what ever it takes to stay open.
Luckily the guys that ran our track have found a new oppurtunity in Washington Pa.It will soon have an indoor oval and road course track,and an indoor offroad,not to mention off sight activities and races.
Best of luck.
Tom
P.S.-Ray,did you get my E-mail?

Adam,

You can go to less camber to get your tires to not cone. Less camber means less steering so dont be suprised if you take away camber and lose steering. If this is the case-you can add a 1/16" on front tire sauce or more dual rate and the car should feel very similar. I am a bit suprised your coning so much at 1.5 degrees though.

Also-if taking away camber loses too much steering or upsets the balance of car-just let your tires cone a bit and keep truing them flat.

Glitcher-I did-sorry I havent replied. I am good on parts as I bought a buddies parts boxes and a new kit as well for parts.

Thanks,
Ray

It was just a little over a month ago i came from running the Losi, being in the B or C qualifier and making the B, to being in the A qualifier and being in the A. That is all thanks to the help i have recieved over the past month or so, and switching cars. I feel that if i would have been at any other track, I would not be at the level i am at now, not that it is very high, but i am a lot better than when i just started 8 months ago. We need some more competition, so come on guys, get out here.
-Buddy

Hey guys,
I have another question for 12th scale. When setting the twik set screws on the T-bar, where do you start at? How far off the chassis is what I'm asking I guess. Also, I need the formula for changing inches to mm. I can't what to get this car running for this week. Has there be a day picked for running?

Hey guys,
I have another question for 12th scale. When setting the twik set screws on the T-bar, where do you start at? How far off the chassis is what I'm asking I guess. Also, I need the formula for changing inches to mm. I can't what to get this car running for this week. Has there be a day picked for running?
Multiply the number of inches times 25.4 to get mm. Divide mm by 25.4 to get the measurement in inches.

Hey yall, I got a spot of news for ya:

"Hey guys, just thought Id let you know that entries for the US Pan Car Championships will open up July 31. If you need a copy of the flyer just send an email to bjwilliams@liberty.edu. I will email it to you so you can print out copies and get it to pan car racers at your track (10th and 12th scale)"

Me and Tony hope to make a wed night race then I can see how much more you kick my butt since we were pretty even in Feb.

Jeff check the poll forum.


Jim

I was wondering now what night are you guys racing.

This message is for everyone to read!

This Wed. will be our last Wed. night event. Starting next week July 13th and beyond all practice and race nights will be on Tuesday evenings.

Thanks,
Jim

This coming Wed. will be a practice night.


Jim

Thats great news-Tuesday works for me!!

Where is the Gate located now? :mad:

hey Jim or holly how about updating the web site with the new info, I was surprised i didnt see in the "news" section about the pole. hey jimmy did you get my email I was serious about what I was saying. talk to me, let me know either way!

Is this rival R/C battle between Cleveland and Pittsburgh really going to happen? I saw a thread talking about this... (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=84999) any interest? Seems like Cleveland has the upper hand, but this could grow into a big contest...

Aaron and Holly had something a little more important going on this week (wedding)!hey Jim or holly how about updating the web site with the new info, I was surprised i didnt see in the "news" section about the pole. hey jimmy did you get my email I was serious about what I was saying. talk to me, let me know either way!

So now that the whole poll thing is over and Jimmy has picked Tuesday as the new race night (starting July 13th),lets get back to race talk!!

How many more people are buying XRay Factory Kits? I hear Jimmy made the switch and others are lookin to it. On a bad note-If everyone switches to it-so much for any car based advantage!! On a good note-The more who run them the more dialed we'll all be with them for the Champs and well also have parts in the hobbyshop!!

All I can say is-I have driven most of the big name TC and this one by far is the best one yet. Quality and precision and durability have always been on XRay's side, but the FK is fast. The TC3 with BMI chassis is pretty darn good too. I'd say for the Gate-the two best cars are the FTTC3 with BMI chassis or the Xray Factory team kit. I think if Chicky drove a BMI Tc3-hed be just a tick quicker than with his Tub chassis. Maybe-maybe not. Jimmy was fast with his HPI Pro4-consistent too, but I still think the Xray is better. OH-poor Goetz and his Barracuda-guess we better give him props too!! Or is that Goetz and his My02!!!

Its a good thing all these different chassis!! Last week the top spots were.

1.FTTC3
2.FTTC3
3. HPI Pro4
4.XRay FK
5.FTTC3

3-different cars in the top 5-wow!!

So now that the whole poll thing is over and Jimmy has picked Tuesday as the new race night (starting July 13th),lets get back to race talk!!

How many more people are buying XRay Factory Kits? I hear Jimmy made the switch and others are lookin to it. On a bad note-If everyone switches to it-so much for any car based advantage!! On a good note-The more who run them the more dialed we'll all be with them for the Champs and well also have parts in the hobbyshop!!

All I can say is-I have driven most of the big name TC and this one by far is the best one yet. Quality and precision and durability have always been on XRay's side, but the FK is fast. The TC3 with BMI chassis is pretty darn good too. I'd say for the Gate-the two best cars are the FTTC3 with BMI chassis or the Xray Factory team kit. I think if Chicky drove a BMI Tc3-hed be just a tick quicker than with his Tub chassis. Maybe-maybe not. Jimmy was fast with his HPI Pro4-consistent too, but I still think the Xray is better. OH-poor Goetz and his Barracuda-guess we better give him props too!! Or is that Goetz and his My02!!!

Its a good thing all these different chassis!! Last week the top spots were.

1.FTTC3
2.FTTC3
3. HPI Pro4
4.XRay FK
5.FTTC3

3-different cars in the top 5-wow!!


Ray,

I got one last wednesday. Haven't had a chance to start building it yet. Which version of the shocks should I build? Which drive ratio should I use?

Do you have a roll-out chart for the car that could be snet as an e-mail attachment?

Thanks,

Adam

Adam,

The rear diff should already built with the 1.77 gear set (32tooth) and thats the one you want.

Shocks-build the adjustable ones. Try Xray 30 wt all around and 2 holes open in front and 4 holes open in back.

Rollout chart-nope-but you can try ask JOnser to make you a hard copy with the 12th scale rollout chart on the back. For now:

(Tire diameter x 3.14)x((pinion/spur)/1.77)=rollout

Adam,

The rear diff should already built with the 1.77 gear set (32tooth) and thats the one you want.

Shocks-build the adjustable ones. Try Xray 30 wt all around and 2 holes open in front and 4 holes open in back.

Rollout chart-nope-but you can try ask JOnser to make you a hard copy with the 12th scale rollout chart on the back. For now:

(Tire diameter x 3.14)x((pinion/spur)/1.77)=rollout


Thanks Ray. When you get a chance, could you post a basic good starting set-up for the x-ray at the gate?

Thanks Ray. When you get a chance, could you post a basic good starting set-up for the x-ray at the gate?I can fax it to you right now if youve got a fax machine. Just pm or e-mail me your fax kartchamp20002000@yahoo.com

Ray

I can fax it to you right now if youve got a fax machine. Just pm or e-mail me your fax kartchamp20002000@yahoo.com

Ray


Ray,

I just e-mailed you my fax.

Thanks,

Adam

Adam,

You will need to modify the rear arms to run foam tires. I would recommend you do this:

Drill holes 1, 2 in rear arm a further 3/16" deeper. With a sanding drum-sand off the entire shock mount tabs on arm. When you are flush with arms, clean out shock mount holes-then sand the arms where the shock mounts a further 1/16" deeper.
This should allow you to put the bottom shock in position #2 and the shocks will clear the rims.

So if everyone is switching to the X-ray, who has a FTTC3 for sale? I have a line on one for 125.00 w/ the warpspeed upper deck and a bunch of parts. Can anyone top that? I will definetly be running a tuesday or two in the next couple of months.

Jimmy,

I won't make it for practice tomorrow night. Do me a favor and set a Novak Tray aside for me if they come in this week and i'll get it next Tuesday. Thanks!

Joneser-at some point tomorrow night I am dropping by track. I will bring your lt. purple springs and the fantom. Can you bring me the stock front bumper on the Xray? I owe one to someone asap Thanks!!

Jimmy-if you need violet, blue and red Hudy springs-I got extra of those three spring colors. Maybe we can trade for some other colors I need like Dk . Blue. I also would like a KO 302f 75Mhz receiver when you order next.

And LAST thing-any word on Oval for 2005? Do you thnk your gonna do some Sunday oval races ? Maybe two a month?

Ray

Thats great news-Tuesday works for me!!Glad to here it Jimmy!
That will work for me.
I was depressed to here that you guy's were moving the race night to wednesday from Holly M.
We will see about the 13th.
Hope to make that.
I hope TC stock is running.

Tracy

Tracy,


Glad to hear you'll be able to make it, That's great news!

Thanks,
Jim

Hey Guys,

The Novak discharge trays have come in. I have four of them but two of them are already taken so I have two left anybody interested? $74.95 each.

Thanks,
Jim

Hey Jim,you do have mine set aside this time,right:cool: .Thanks and see you tonight

Ray

What's the word on the Integy Laser Tweak Station? Is it worth the money and will it fit on a 9"x12" pit board? Ray, how do you like yours?

The integy tweak station is good. Goetz like his and I have liked using it. I was thinking about getting one as well. Paul just picked up the niftech one and he likes it but the niftech does not need to be leveled because of the lazer. A little easier to use in my opinion.

I just use a MIP Tweak station. I just acquired a second one so mine will always be available at track. I have no complaints on the MIP ones.