Any tips that would help tune and epic d5 based 19T motor would be great. Should I be using stand up brushes or p94? What should the timing be set at to get the most power out of it? What brush and spring combo have been working? I dont have a dyno so I dont know where to start. I run on a long carpet oval. thanx

Is it for ARCOR racing? If you are running ARCOR then you have to use a standup brush. This is where I start:


ARCOR 36 degrees
4383 or Putnam X
Purple or Trinity Silver springs

19 turn Open 36 degrees
Trinity 4379 high silver P-94 brush
Trinity Silver springs (negative spring tweeked)

Hope this helps!

2 .020 shims pinion side of motor,1 .020.shim endbell side,no phenolic washer,Lightspeed 4000 or putnam X serrated brush full face,orion 155d[red] spring negative side,orion 135d[silver] spring pos. side.Hook it to your t-30,if it will draw 10a or better in the first 15 secs. of break-in,it'll run!Don't break in any longer than that.This info was given to me at last yrs. ROAR oval nats,and it worked! We were using the orion brush at that time but the brush is no longer available ,and i have found that these 2 brushes work as well. Hope this helps!

I had, what was called, the "MOST RIP" at the ROAR Nats this year...Interested???

Later, Bret

yup I am

I think Arnie might disagree with you Bret...:)

Hi Bob, that's why I have it in quotes, I didn't say it. But to go from 7th on the grid, to fighting for 2nd (with no crashes), I must have had a little rip. I had nothing for Arnie, but had the rest of the field covered :p

Later, Bret

The "ROAR" version of the Putnam Propulsion 19 Turn motor Arnie Fie used to TQ/WIN the ROAR Carpet Oval Nats is now available.
Brett did have some impressive HP in the main, but tough to compare against Arnie...he was in a class by himself.

I had, what was called, the "MOST RIP" at the ROAR Nats this year...Interested???

Later, Bret
Hey Bret.....can you share how you got the " RIP "..Pls pls....Thanx

The "ROAR" version of the Putnam Propulsion 19 Turn motor Arnie Fie used to TQ/WIN the ROAR Carpet Oval Nats is now available.
Brett did have some impressive HP in the main, but tough to compare against Arnie...he was in a class by himself.
Todd ....do you think Dale at AAA will have them for the ARCOR summer nats on july 3-4 ?

JEEP
Pretty simple stuff, I ran an EPIC 2 mag can, with a Putnam ARCOR arm @ .280, Putnam X-94's full size, purple springs, and 36 degrees of timing. The catch is, for some reason this motor ran real fast with a slot in the Negative brush, I have no explanation for it, it's just the way it was.

Todd,
Even though we talked about it the other night, I still smile when I run that race through my mind :thumbsup: It had to be the most fun I've ever had racing,
"thank you for your support" ;)

Later, Bret

Bret, don't forget about the "volt" factor in your power equation! LOL

I thought I'd throw that in...

Steve.
TQ Cells

And the car! lol

jeepnyy, remember ARCOR rules and ROAR rules now differ. For an Arcor race you need a D-5 set-up with standup brushes. The ROAR version you can use a 4-mag can and P-94 brushes.

Good call Danny B....
JEEPNYY: Dale can have them, all he has to do is order them...

Thanks,
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion

Jeepnyy: "X Compound" Brushes, Purple springs, vertical slot(s) work well. We've had the most luck with the 19 turns timed at 24 degrees, (2 tabs) and gearing up. You'll have to increase your roll-out about 30 points on smaller tracks, (120'-150' +/-) and about 55-60 points on larger tracks, (250' +) when you go from 36 degrees to 24 degrees.
Good Luck!
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion

TP,
Any truth that you will produce for production your 46 lap "bracket racer" set-up that you ran in modified at the nats?

Scott Law

When you say 2 tabs gets you down to 24 degress is that 2 tabs from the left or the right. I guess what I am trying to ask is If i have it turned all the way up to 36 degress do i go down to marks to get to 24?

tourque56 each notch on the endbell represents 12 degrees of timing. 0, 12, 24, 36, your at 36 degrees so you would turn it one notch back to get 24 degrees. normally racers will talk from zero timming so one notch or tab is 12 degrees two tabs 24 degrees and so forth.

Mike Thank you very much for the info that makes it much easier to understand!!

I wan just wondering what the advantages are of turning the timing down and gearing up verus regular 36 degree timing with normal gear. Is it easier on the motor? I have seen first hand guys faster with the lower timing and gearing up I just don't understand why

any time you turn the timming past a certain point the motor doesn't produce and more power, and becomes less eff. the only thing you gain is rpm which can't be used since the motor losses overall power. so be timming down to say 24 degrees you have a motor that runs more eff has more power and runs cooler finishes better and can still be geared up for the same speed. imo there no majic timming setting, it seems to be different per motor and track so just try and try again.

jeepnyy, remember ARCOR rules and ROAR rules now differ. For an Arcor race you need a D-5 set-up with standup brushes. The ROAR version you can use a 4-mag can and P-94 brushes.Danny, thanx.....Iam trying to get a good starting point for the ARCOR summer nats at BMS. Hoping for in the 19t zero class. On another topic....how will you place the batteries on KSG solid chassis for BMS? 1/4, 1/2" toward center? all the way to the back? I had it all the way out, last week at super spec...car seem to be a bit loose on turn 3-4. I have purple on lf & black rf wolf spring & long kingpin. red on side & copper on center shocks(40/80oil) Between 320-330 gm leftside.straight t-plate. last time u were for the ROAR Paved Oval Nats last AUgust race you were super FAST. hope you can help me. Thanx

TP
At the Nat's, I kinda wanted to find some things out for myself, rather than just be given the info, that's why I didn't come to you for Arnies setup. I feel pretty good about what I did, but now that it's over, what was Arnie's setup, 24 degrees or 36, cut brushes, and rollout??? You can e-mail it if you'd like.

TQ CELLS
Batteries are a big part of ANY electric racing, be it stock, 19 turn or modified. Steve @ TQ CELLS has some of the very best sticks in the business. The latest 35 amp stuff sure does have some rip :thumbsup: Thanks Steve!!!

Later, Bret

hello guys, your welcome for letting you guys in on the 24 degree timing in 19 t.we have been doing that for months.it works great

So, then... is it fair to assume that all the Putnam drivers were running around 24 degrees of timing at this past ROAR carpet oval national race?

What's the track like at Radical Ricks? Is'nt it fairly large? Banked?

DynoMoHum ricks is a 275ish drive line flat oval. i didn't attend that race so ic an't say for sure what all the putnam guys were running. but try it both ways and decide. it will take a few tries to get the new gear.

DYNO
I ran 36 degrees

The main reason I ask, is because if I'm not mistaken, running 24 degreees timing is like almost unheard of in 19 turn four cell oval racing...

Now, I and others have debated just exactly how/why it is that most folks use 36 degrees, when on a TurboDyno, and even on a Robitronic dyno, the motors will almost always show more power at 24 degrees then they will at 36 degrees... yet on the track, it seems 36 degrees ussualy has a advantage, regardless of what the dynos seem to tell you...

My observations have lead me to the conclusion that on tracks where the corner speed is nearly identical to the straight away speed, you can run 24 degrees and gear up... but it seems that on tracks where you have to slow significantly in the corners and then acclerate down the straights, you tend to do better at 36 degrees...

Bottom line is... I really beleive the idea that it's better to run 24 degrees in 19 turn, is a fairly radical idea to most racers... I'd like to hear more about what others think about it...

I am now starting to try 24 Deg. instead of 36.....Ive been told

as a rule....At 36 deg..dyno the motor....Get the rpm....then dyno the same motor at 24. deg...get the rpm.......for every 1,500 rpm difference go up 1 pinion that you would of run if you stayed at 36 deg......
.
Iv tried it and its work good in some situations and seemed flat in others......
guess it depends on the motor....finding the sweet spot....

bud you will need to go up more then that. your looking to run faster not the same speed, and it's more like 1 pinion/1000 rpm. it really depends on the size of track smaller track less you need to pin up, larger the track more pinion you can put to it.

It's been a while since I tried to figure it out... but at one time I thought it was close to 1 tooth for every 400 RPM... I think I wound up figuring it was slightly differnt for most motors, and there really was not much point in trying to come up with some rule of thumb that related RPM to teeth... I do agree with Mike that your likely undergeared if your only going up one for each 1500 RPM.


I also know that on most tracks, your going to have to either run a huge pinion, or get some smaller spur gears if your going to gear up far enough to run at competitive speeds with a 19 turn motor at 24 degrees of timing.

Jeepnyy: "X Compound" Brushes, Purple springs, vertical slot(s) work well. We've had the most luck with the 19 turns timed at 24 degrees, (2 tabs) and gearing up. You'll have to increase your roll-out about 30 points on smaller tracks, (120'-150' +/-) and about 55-60 points on larger tracks, (250' +) when you go from 36 degrees to 24 degrees.
Good Luck!
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
DynoMoHum

Had to quote "TP" on this seeing as he is the guy that put mad rip in Arnie's car at the Nats. and happens to own one of the biggest motor tuning companys in the Country

Yeah, I read Todd's posts... I'd still like to hear what the general oval community has to say about their own personal experiances...

The track that the nationals was raced at, is what I consider big... and my guess is that
corner speeds are very high and that the cars don't change speed much on a good lap... this is exactly where I would expect 24 degrees to work well...

I guess I'm more interested to know if Todd and/or anyone else really has as much sucsess with 24 degrees at smaller tracks... Like say a snowbirds sized track...

Neat trick Todd. ;)

Dynomo,

We've tried it on smaller tracks (125-160) with some success, both in 1/10th and 1/12th scale. I tried it in FL with both a D5 motor in practice, and the ultrabird motor. There wasn't enough track time for me to test it the way I wanted to with all the other things I was doing.

Mark

the track at the nats actually had tight corners..............

we have been running 24 degrees of timing for about 3 or 4 months now

Can someone describe just how much you have to slow down to get though the corners at that track?

Our local track is basicly a snowbirds sized track, and even on that the fastest guys don't slow down much if any though the corners...

I know on my dyno(robitronic), there is a significant differance in power output between 24 degrees and 36... and 24 clearly should have a power advantage. Yet still last season, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone running anything less then 36 degreees... Maybe it's just one of those things that everyone thought it was better and/or no one ever really tried at 24 degrees... I've tried it a little, but never really had any sucsess at it... but my driving and chassis needs so much work, it's often hard for me to get a good handle on what really works on the track.

Jeepnyy: "X Compound" Brushes, Purple springs, vertical slot(s) work well. We've had the most luck with the 19 turns timed at 24 degrees, (2 tabs) and gearing up. You'll have to increase your roll-out about 30 points on smaller tracks, (120'-150' +/-) and about 55-60 points on larger tracks, (250' +) when you go from 36 degrees to 24 degrees.

Just reading back thru looking for tips, when talking about raising roll-out 30 points you are talking about going from say 2.4 to 2.7 correct?

wrnchbndr,
that is correct.

Dyno,
I have yet to find a track where I had to lift in 19 turn :thumbsup: .

Later, Bret

Thanks Bret.

in 19t is it better to not have to lift or better to lift? my track is about a 150 length.

We race on a 150 ft. pocono shaped track and it is faster to lift slightly entering turn one to allow the car to take a set. Here is a link to some pics of our track.

http://rcrcr.com/photos.html