being that i just got on this thread and it seems like a good place id like to offer any setup advice or answer questions that you guys may have about Oval racing in general...keep in mind that i run a Racetech MacAttack but will answer questions on any cars.

OK -- I'll jump in... I've seen what you've posted about your Snowbirds setup, etc...

I normally run "spoiler only" (no wing) on small (135-155' lap length) flat carpet ovals, but others have convinced me to try changing to a body mounted wing (BRP Bi-level "super wing" with the upper element removed). Old spoiler was just under 1" high -- new wing is level with top of body, only small lip at rear, front of wing is even with the rear axle.

If I swap bodies -- what changes would you anticipate in the setup? More/less LR tweak? Battery moved back/fwd?

I know you can't be exact, but I'm looking for a head start on re-tuning (if necessary) the chassis setup...

[This message has been edited by tfrahm (edited 02-22-2002).]

Tfrahm- if you have been running only with a spoiler and you go to a BRP super wing thats a big change...you might want to try a smaller wing to start...in 19T i run a Thunder small wing...you dont that much downforce on the rear tires when running stock or 19T...if you do run the big wing you should move your battery forward and should be able to take left rear out of the car...you also might want to try and use the new Protoform HD Monte Carlo...it has alot of downforce all over the body especially in the front...any other questions let me know...hope this helps.

Tfrahm....one question i have is how wide is the infield on the tracks that you are running? that will give me info to get you going in the right direction on a setup.

Wing is the BRP 5237, but with only the lower element (which has only about 1/4" of "lip" at the back, at a shallow angle -- so there isn't going to be much downforce, mostly just the BIG side plates for directional stability)

Tracks are bullrings, with infields of around 8' average (or less).

Using a spoiler seemed to be really good on handling, but the faster guys have convinced me that I had too much drag from the spoiler. They claim the wing (with only one element and the small lip) has much less drag and thus more speed... Carpet is Ozite (gray), with decent bite...

Tfrahm - ive never raced a track that a sopiler has more drag than a wing if the spoiler is normal size...the BRP 5237 is a very wide wing..you might want to try a BRP 5241 which has the same size side dams but is much narrower...the downforce for a wing comes more from the deck than the kickup.

Who makes the Thunder wing? Please give a part number if possible. Congrats on your wins at the Snobirds. I seen the new MC and that is a wild looking body. You think that body will work well on all flat carpet tracks? Thanks

BB -- thanks for the replies!

It has been 4-5 years since I last used a wing on an oval car (I've been running well enough with a spoiler, I hadn't given wings much of a thought), and the cars have changed so much, and back then we ran the wings on the POD and not the BODY, etc., etc. so I am almost starting over at the beginning.

I had always thought the way you seem to (that a proper sized spoiler is the way to go) but I keep getting beaten by guys running wings...?

This is the tricky part about oval setup -- getting that last 0.1 second per lap that gets you into the 'A' instead of the 'B'... I finally gave in on the idea of trying a body mounted wing after a frustrating weekend where I changed gearing over a 2-3 tooth range on the pinion and still ran virtually identical runs every time (using a pinion range of 31-33, I ran 4 runs that were ALL 61 4-flat, ranging from 4:00.40-4:00.94)... FRUSTRATING! Something in the handling "package" had to be wrong, and I had played with tires and tweak and finally decided that maybe the "wing" guys were right... (To be honest, my heart's not really in the wing test, but I have to try it just to see...)




[This message has been edited by tfrahm (edited 02-22-2002).]

the biggest thing a wing is going to do is calm the car down to make it a tick more consistent and maybe give you that .10 that you need...keep in mind that the only way to be truly fast on a flat oval is to make sure your front end is setup right...what springs are running?

On this car I ran the 4 identical runs with, I'm running Associated springs -- 0.020 on the LF and 0.018 on the RF. (this was with an ADX I was using as a testbed before the Carpet Pro chassis had arrived) Rear shocks were VCS Blue right, VCS Silver left, with Green center springs (all 3 using 30wt). Rear tires were 33 durometer BSR Blues, RF was 48 durometer TRC purple, LF was 32 durometer TM DblBlack. Tweak averaged 1-2 oz heavy on LR...

Tom,
One advantage I have found is that the the wing may not produce significantly more downforce or drag, but the side dams really help increase your directional stability.

BadSign -- that is sort of what I've been told... The "fast guys" run their wings almost totally "flat" (so only the little lip adds downforce/drag), and they said that they could run their cars much more "loose" ("loose is fast", right?) and yet the car was "drivable" because the big side plates worked like the tail fin on an airplane, keeping the car under control...

Ages ago, we really used the pod mounted wing for downforce, and the side plates were minimal (almost like an offroad wing) -- this old school aproach always had too much drag and the pod mounting tended to cause a push... That's why I switched to spoilers and they have worked well for me, but lately I'm just giving up that 0.1 sec. somewere out there on the track, and I can't find it! I can turn 3.7&3.8's, but they turn 3.6&3.7's and they do it more consistently --leaving me in the dust!

Mel - the Thunder wing is made by Thunder Racing...the part # is THU2000 or 2000L..the L is thinner and lighter version....i think the HD MC will be good on all flat tracks...downforce is very important on those tracks and that body has alot of it.

Tfrahm - try this setup with the ADX....get some Wolfe Motorsports long kingpins so you can use the longer wolfe springs...these springs give the car alot more steering...run a white on the right front and a red on the left front...try a red spring on the left rear shock spring and a gold spring on the right rear...this setup in the back allows the car to stay flatter in corner because of the stiffer left rear spring...also you may try Jaco black rears and black right front and a green left front. also try 60 wt in the center shock with a red off road spring cut to the right length...this is a very aggresive setup as far as steering goes so may have to adjust it to your driving style but it might work for you.

Hi Brian!
What do you suggest for a flat (kinda bumpy in some spots!) asphalt oval. The track is about 355' (running line) with the turns slightly banked at about 2 degrees & 3-5 degrees. I have an L3O with the 4-cell Team chassis conversion. I am running .022 Assoc. springs up front,Blue side springs on the VCS shocks and silver spring on the center shock. All 3 shocks have 35 wt oil. I am looking for suggestions as far as caster. The LF has 3 degrees & the RF has 2 degrees. Also would like to hear about that L3O setup that you mentioned!

Thanks in advance!
-George

[This message has been edited by irvan36mm (edited 02-22-2002).]

George where do you run at??

Irvan - if your track is pretty bumpy i would try and run Wolfe long springs in the front....on aspahlt id start with a green on the right front and a purple on the left front...the center shock spring is probably right but again id stiffen the side shock springs...the stiffer you can get away with on flat tracks the better because the car wont roll over in the corner as bad...as far as cater goes try the right front split with 2 shims in the front to take most of the caster out usually ends up being around 1 degree...try split in the left front 1 and 1...the reason i start there is because it gives you room to add more caster if you need it...more caster will make the car turn harder going in and steer less coming off which is what you need in flat track...i think the wolfe springs will really help in the bumps.

oops...forgot the L3O setup
Frt springs = red right, green left, long front kingpins with Adj caster blocks, run thr right front arm with an angle and run the left front arm flat.
T- Bar = TRC 6263 spring steel
Rear Springs = Red left rear, gold right rear, Red offroad spring cut to length
Oil = 35 in sides and 60 in center(Trinity shock oil)
Ride height = as low as your rules allow or high enough that you dont hit..also run about a .5 mm of rake in the chassis
Tires = Black RR, White LR, Black RF, Green LF
Body = Protoform HD Monte Carlo 1223L
Wing = Thunder 2000L Small wing

im new to oval, changed from touring to oval, and would like a good starting setup.

I have a g-force slider (thanks anthony C.) and am looking for a good setup. everything from tires to gearing and all the way down to the best servo.

I race at Hobbytown Indy, its an ozite track that is 155". my tire width is about 54mm. My gearing im running is 100 and 25. i race 4 cell stock. running a p2k2 and 3000hv packs.

Vodo try the setup i wrote above...i ran the exact same setup with my Racetech car that i ran with my L3...gearing is tough...ask Sonny at Hobbytown for that...he will help you with that. the best servo is a matter of preference and how much you want to spend...i run an Airtronics 94145...its around $80 i think but its very fast.

Brian were you running the Carpet Pro or a regular Mac Attack?Any insight for the Carpet Pro?The hot ticket here has been two red front sprins and three delta shocks in the rear with Wood yellow springs on the sides and an orange Wolfe spring on the center.

Hey Brian,

In your set-up I see that the LR side shock spring is stiffer than the RR. I'm just wondering what that is doing. Older set-ups used to have a stiffer RR spring which I thought helped to plant the LR.

Also, the red offroad spring - is it a buggy or truck spring, front or rear? What is it's stiffness compared to the Associated silver?
Can you use touring car springs on the center shock?

Finally, what is your opinion on centered pod vs. straight up.

Thanks,

Tom

is this Burkie from N.Y.? if so... how about that front end set up for rennselaer I have the L30 that you saw last year, i also have a G-force slider. I'm running a 10 turn dbl 4 cell
thanks chris

Brian: If a tree falls in the middle of the woods, and no one is there to hear it, does it still make a sound like Zubie hitting the wall?
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/tongue.gif

Sorry for the screenname change but i lost my password to my other account and couldnt get it from this computer...ill be back as my regular self on Monday

Bob - i was running the regular MacAttack...i started out with the carpet pro but it didnt suit my setup or the track we were running in my opinion...i think that is a very good car but the track needs to be shorter to utilize its advantages...let me know the track length and i might be able to give you some starting points...my opinion on delta shocks is so bad i cant even type it because they would delete it..HPI center shock and Associated sides is the way to go.

Tome - the stiffer spring on the left hand side allows the car to stay flatter when going thru the corner..it doesnt allow as much weight transfer so the car turns better..the red spring is the same buggy and truck and front to rear so it doesnt matter which one you use...you just have to cut it to same number of coils your using currently..it is about 2 steps stiffer than the silver spring...you can using touring springs if you want...i actually ran the Flourescent red HPI spring at the snowbirds.i normally run my pod straight up as much as possible but sometimes when its hard to get power down you should run the offset pod..for instance 4 cell mod at snowbirds i ran a straight pod and 6 cell i ran offset because the cars are putting down so much more power...it really depends on how your track is setup and how hard it is to get your car off the corner.

Sml - yeah its me...try the setup i posted above for the L3O..that should work pretty well at rennsalear...maybe run a white right front spring and a red left front

Todd - it absolutley would make the same noise but there is ALWAYS somebody there to witness it when Zubie slugs the wall.

Brian, when are you gonna honor us again with your presense on the Big Dirt Oval in Lemoyne, PA.

Brian,thanks for the reply.I run on a lot of short tracks under 120' run line.I have my car working pretty good on those tracks.I looking for a good starting point for bigger flat tracks about 150' run line and about 15 ft infield.Carpet is the same that was used at the 'Birds.I'm used to runnig a car with a floating pod beeen running Wood cars for the last 5 years and quite frankly all the choices for t-bars kind of confuses me.How does changing the stiffness of the t-bar affect handling and how to determine what oil and spring to use with what t-bar.Any light you could shed on this subject would be much appreciated.Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Bob Wright (edited 02-25-2002).]

MACE-
I run at Hobby World in Jacksonville,FL on Friday nights. Do I know you??

BRIAN-
Thanks for the advice! I'll try them & I'll let you know the results!

-George

No you dont sorry. I run on a 355 foot track with some minor bumps in Seaford Delaware. I thought that it might be the same track. Sorry for the confusion.

[This message has been edited by MACE (edited 02-25-2002).]

irvan i live in daytona is there a flat oval track in j-ville i dont know about? or is that the banked track? thanks

Team Earl - hopefully ill be up there before the end of the season...want to get some laps on my sprinter.

Bob - changing t-bars drstically changes the handling of a car...on any track that is even close to being smooth i run the double slot TRC spring steel t-bar...if the track is bumpy you might want to try a .063 fiberglass...they help the car get thru the bumps better but tend to reduce corner speed compared to a spring steel...the thicker fiberglass bar you run the looser the car will get.

MACE-
No problem! Hey,I bet you don't have a slight dip in the backstretch for drainage at your track! Makes for great & interesting racing-wheelies,3-point backflips & all!! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif

KATf1SH-
Yes,there is an flat asphalt oval behind Hobby World-at I-295 & 103rd street! We race every Friday nights. Come race with us sometime!!

-George

Todd.....NOTHING makes as loud a thud as when Zubie hits the walls!!

Brian....Good job here helping everyone out....Not too bad at the Birds either!!

eric anderson

Eric - thanks for the reply...hopefully it actually helps them...and your right about the sound of a Zubie hitting the wall.

When do you use the floating pod? and when you use it do you run the center spring alot stiffer?

Bryan O - i wouldnt recommend the floater pod unless the carpet track is VERY bumpy...from what ive heard it works very well on asphalt and on concrete where rear bite is more crucial and tougher to get...if you run the pod on carpet you would definetely stiffen the center spring at least two steps heavier...id probably only go one stiffer outside on asphalt or concrete

Thanks Brian. I ran the car last night 6 cell stock. Ran the floating pod with a blue associated touring spring on it...blue left rear spring and silver on right.....was a lap off track record...turned 81 laps...5 minutes...Next time I'll try the standard pod

do you run the steel t-bar on you g-force car? I have a g-force slider that came with a firberglass one. what would changing it do?

Brian,
What setup would you reccomend for a HyperDrive 510 slider with a shortened chassis of 9-5/8. This will be for the Classic Hobbies track in Akron. Want to do some testing in mod. Looking for front springs rear springs and oil. Also I will be running JACO tire. Any help would be appreciated.

sml- i try to run a spring steel on every car i run and yes i do run one on my racetech cars...i always run the double slot...the biggest thing they do is stay more consistent than fiberglass because they have no memory..it may be splitting hairs but they also dont change with air temperature. changing to a spring steel on a flat track usually gives you more corner speed.

Nunzio- id probably start out with .020 associated springs in the front, silver side springs with 30 wt oil and a silver center associated spring with 80 wt oil. im not sure on what tire compounds we will run because its been a while since ive been there but im guessing we will start with blacks and whites.

Hi Brian, I have a question, at the Snowbirds, where did you run your batteries on your 4 cell car? And how much tweak did you have in the rear? And one last question, how did you adjust your car for the increase in traction as the race went on? Thanks, Curtis.

Brian-Is the spring steel t-bar you are talking about the medium one??? or the other one???

Curtis- i ran the new prtotype trya from ractech and i ran the batteries as far forward as they would go...its hard to say about left rear because i dont scale my car. i just eyeball it by lifting the back of the car...i didnt really change my car a whole lot from the beginning to the end of the week...mainly adjusted the car with traction compound once i got the right balance.

Yes it is the medium double slot t-bar

Anybody out there have any set up tips when using the turnbuckle style front end. The front end is from the EV10 and I'm using the Switchblade lower arms. I always spend a ton of time getting the camber and castor set the way I want it. I get the camber where I want it and the caster is off and vise versa. The ball stud length also affects the roll center, right? If I use tall ball studs it will decrease steering? Short ball stud will increase steering? I've always used the standard front end on my Switchblade. The 0 degree upper arm mounts. So I figure I would keep the up mounting ball studs the same height. I run on a bumpy tight carpet oval. Center is only about 1 foot wide with 60ft straights. The new SB2 doesn't cover the tricks for the turnbuckle front end. Maybe the old EV10SS manual would be helpful. Thanks anyone!!!

Hi everyone!
Does anyone have any set up tips for a Hyperdrive 0500 on a very bumpy 355' asphalt banked oval.I'm currently running the racetech t-bar setup.I'm having trouble with a viscious push off the turns the car gets in good and is good in the middle but like I said pushes hard off the turn.I'm thinking a castor change is what I need but am not real sure.

Pepe,sounds like we are racing on the same track(Easley)Drop me a email,we might be able to help.

Jud

Did you get my E-mail bullet?

[This message has been edited by pepe (edited 03-03-2002).]

pepe,

I sent ya an email regarding your post above.

george i have heard from friends that a dirt car would be better suited to race on that oval you run on. lol i hear it is way bumpy. i'll save my chassis for now and run here in daytona and at supperior thanks for the info though.

pepe,got the email.

Jud