Hey Burkhart

Just got the new car action....great shot of your Snowbird's ride. Once again, congrats on a great weekend

-E

:thumbsup:

burkys (can i call him that?) car up in car action!?!?! SWEET

oval wannabe- i noticed the same thing and started using an upper collar when i can.

Oval- yes you definetely could run another spring keeper on the top of the spring...Wolfe makes one that is yellow or pink and they are slightly smaller so you wouldnt have to remove as many shims.

Darkside- havent seen the pics yet but Dale at protoform told me they looked cool..thanks for the good word

I am new to oval. I bought a used Racetech G-force and I am looking for a good starting point for caster/camber/toe-in. I am racing on a concrete banked oval track. Will be running BSR greens and reds.:confused: Help anyone?

Hey Brian,

I've heard about " bump steer " before but I am not exactly sure what it is. I think it has something to do with the change in toe in or toe out when the front suspension is compressed. If this is right I guess I don't want any change - right ? How do I correct it ? Does it have something to do with the angle of the tie-rods ?
The Associated 10L3 has the rods at an angle but I have seen other cars where they go straight across.

Thanks,

Tom

you are rite on what it does...as far as fixing it you put a small spacer under the outer tie rod end tll it goes away..B.B....correct me if I am wrong...:rolleyes:

22Cat- a good place to start on those front end settings are 2 degrees of negative camber in the right fron and 1 degree of positive camber in the left front. as far as toe-in goes being that your a new racer id run 1 degree of toe-in to make the car a bit easier to drive.

TOME- bump steer is when you compress the front suspension and the tires toe-in...we have actually tested at some tracks to make the left front bump out to give the car more steering but it made the car very inconsistent...Dave is right in the way to correct the problem...you do have to be careful because you will also change the ackerman of the front end when you start putting shims in there...i always run my ti-rods at a pretty severe angle to give the car alot of ackerman...that means the left front actually turns more than the right front...i would not recommend this unless you like driving a car that is VERY sensitive...back to bump steer though..if you run a car with too much bump steer it will make the car tight entering the corner because it reduces the wheel angle.

A question on the side shocks on a 3-shock chassis:

After making some changes (different body, changed from spoiler to wing, etc.), the car (4-cell stock on 165' racing line flat ozite oval) was much more hooked up than in the past. the bad news is it exhibited a new quirk -- on the corner exit, if I held a tight line (as in making a pass on the inside of another car), the left front tire would come up off the carpet. The problem is that the car would then "waggle", as the front end lost some bite (only the RF "working"), then the LF would settle back down, then the car would start to turn again, and the process would repeat.

This only happened when the car was "pinched down" on the corner exit...

My assumption is the the current spring setup on the side shocks is the problem. I'm running a Blue right spring and a Silver left spring. The weaker left side spring is allowing the chassis to lift the LF tire -- right? By changing the left shock to a Blue spring (to match the one on the right side), the LF should be held down, allowing the car to corner "flatter" -- right?

Also, since the car is really hooked up, I might want to change to Gold springs on both sides at the back (keep the springs equal, but go stiffer to keep the chassis "flatter"...

Does this sound about right?

(FWIW -- I ran my Carpet Pro in 4-cell 19t, with gold springs on the side shocks, and that car cornered very nice and "flat"...)

tfrahm- you are definetely headed the right direction with your thinking of the stiffer springs...i dont really run stock but if i was going to run 4cell stock i would run a copper spring on the left side and a red spring on the right...this will really keep the car flat thru the corners...you should be able to run this stiffer setup in stock because you dont have to worry about getting the back of the car hooked up as much with the reduction in power...i run a red on left and a gold on the right in modified.

Hey Brian,

I'm not sure if this question is about the bump steer but, if I move the steering servo back to straighten out the tie rods, does this do anything to the handling - either good or bad ?

Thanks,

Tom

moving the tirods arounds has an effect on two things....ackerman and bump steer.

ackerman is when one wheel turns MORE than the other. you always want the inside tire to turn more than the outside because it has to follow a tighter radius as the car goes through the corner, so without ackerman your tires will scrub. but if you get too much ackerman the inside tire can pull the car down too hard in the corner and essentially create oversteer.

bump steer is something that you generally dont want on an rc car. in real life a trick is to make it such that the right front actually toes out as the car rolls and the driver will automatically correct this and turn the wheel more, its a way of getting ackerman easily. but in the rc world bump steer is really just erratic because roll usually happens rather quickly and the amount of time in a corner is short so unless you know exactly how the bump steer is going to affect your car you cant really correct for it like you really need to be able to.

just my two cents.

Bump steer is a directly effected by the tie rods angle in relation to the upper arm angle,the more the two differ the more bump steer the car will have.If you have your left and right arms set at different angles wich is the case in most rc oval cars you must find a happy medium for the tie rod angles to reduce bump steer.

Saw your car in rcca. sweeeeet!. Got a question.what kind of wing mounts are those and where can i get em?.thanx

Brian - I ordered the HPI shcok, that you gave me the part number for, and put it together last night. I'm assuming that you run you center shock mount in the rear most mounting position. Correct? If you don't how do you add length to the HPI shock? BYTW everybody is right about how easy the shock goes together! Thanks again for the help. :roll:

It seems that most cars I end up running the front end is off-set from the center of the car. I draw a line down the chassis using the t-bar mounting holes when I refer to the center of the chasis. So my question is this, when mounting the servo in the car do I or would I mount the servo with the servo saver in the middle of the chassis thus giving different length of tie-rods? Or would I mount the servo so that both tie-rods are the same length?

Trackdog- thanks for the compliments...the wing moutns i used i made by Raceway Manufacturing..part #RWM 170..you should be able to get them at a local hobby store

Ron- i usually run the shock mount in the middle location or the rear location..i use the long RPM ball cups to give the shock a bit more length.

Kraig- i always run my servo so the servo saver is in the dead center of the car then adjust the tie-rods to the proper length.

A little more info on moving the front tires back or not:From the Racetech-G-Force instruction book:If you need more steering going into the corner,move the left arm back slightly.If you are trying to get your car to turn better coming out of a corner,move the right arm back slightly.Interesting,huh?

Briam or anybody else that knows,could you tell me what the part #'s are for the motor plate,the left side pod plate,and the bottom plate are for the Mac Attack.Not the Carpet Pro but the t-bar version.Also what part #'s are the spring steel t-bars that are compatable with the Mac Attack both single and double slot.At my LHS if its not Hyperdrive they don't know.Thanks in advance.Bob.

Would it be possible for someone to scan the picture of Brian's car out of RCCA from The Birds? I don't have access to a copy of the magazine or a place to buy it nearby, but would like to see the picture. Thanks for your help.

Does anybody know how I can get a copy of the instructions for the Racetech Gforce? I called Racetech and they referred me to this website. Thanks:wave:

What all can I do to get more
steering in my 10L30? I have a green progressive spring on l/f & red on r/f..silver center shock & reds on both side's w/30 wt oil's..tweek is r/r off the ground about 1/8"...other than that car is stock...:confused:

Dave: Assuming that the tires you are running are correct, here's some stuff to try:
- softer RF spring
-stiffer sides and ctr. spring and thicker oil, (50-60 ctr, 40 sides), stiffer t-plate
-reverse stagger in front, (rf tire smaller than lf, start w/ about .020" difference)
-rear tire stagger, (LR smaller than RR. start w/ .020 difference)
- slide LR closer to pod plate, shim out RR

hey brian my name is rick hubbert and i race 6-cell stock at k&n speedway and i need some help on selecting a t-plate for my hyperdrive . it has 1 shock and a side dampner.

we also tried moving the pod over to the left...:confused:

Moving pod to the left will make the car tighter, and will make it turn less. That is like adding tweak to the LR tire.

WOW..THE GUYS @ THE TRACK SAID...YOU GOTTA MOVE THE POD...I DID NOT FEEL ANY BIG CHANGES..GUESS I WILL MOVE IT BACK...:confused:

Yeah, offset pod is only used when traction is needed coming off because of lots of power, such as 6cell mod or something. But normally it is not nessicary, I never use it.

What is the width of the wide right rear hubs used when running an off-set pod? The reason I'm asking is I have several "old" Lynx right rear hubs. I'm thinking of using one on the right rear, but want to find out what the width of the hub should be. Thanks.

Bob Wright- the part numbers you need are #8300 and 8301 for the right and left pod plated..the number for the double slot spring steel bar is TRC 6263.

22Cat- i would call Bolink and speak to Jamie...he should be able to help you...im not sure why they would send here but id give him a try.

Dave- what Todd suggested should get you going in the right direction...just dont change too many things at one time.

Rick- you probably want the TRC 6263 for K&N..thats the tbar that i used when i ran the Hyperdrive a while back...the rear pod on that car hasnt changed so the tbar will remain the same.

Dave- moving the pod to the offset position wont make the car feel all that different at the wheel...the biggest place that adjustment shows up is when you are running mod and you need to get the back of the car more hooked up...this will help the car drive off the corner better.

CuRC- i wouldnt recommed doing that because you will have to change the whole rear axle...the width of the hub isnt really important in that case because the bearing depth is not correct...you would have to use an old Bolink style axle to make it work and that cost you even more money.

Brian,

Thanks for the reply...I went and looked more closely at one of the axles that I had gotten when I bought someone out and saw the bearing depth that you were talking about. Guess I will have to buy a regular wide right rear axle. :D

no problem Cu...hope it helps

Wondering what to expect should I use the long pod plates..

These are the BL 163 which are .90 lower and 10mm longer..

I know it would allow me to use larger spur/pinions but what will it do to the handling of a 10l4.....

What type of track is best suited to a longer wheel base..I run the ORL series so it's a new track each month... (Are we lucky to have this or what....)

Next would it be okay to move the front wheels back when a shorter wheel base is needed :confused:

Sir- when i was running for Associated and we ran the prototype cars at the snowbirds we ran the the stock motor plates...ive never been a big fan of changing the rear pod plates...Associated cars have alot of rear traction because the motor is right on top of the axle..by moving the axle back you will change the pivot point and how much weight is on the rear axle...different wheelbases affect a car differently on different types of tracks...i always run a long wheelbase car because i set my cars up very aggresively...it is more up to driving style than anything else.

If the pod is as far to the right as possible on a 10L3 (as if you were sitting in the car) Is it considered off set.. I have mines set as far left as possible..

If I move it will I gain some steering on a flat track or will I lose steering...

I assume on a flat track you would want the rear tire to be even or sticking further out then the front tire( on the right hand side).. If I move the pod over this will happen...

sir- offset pod refers to mounting the pod offset towards the left. the way that you have it. when you run offset pod you are supposed to use a wide diff hub, this way the right rear tire stays in the same spot, just the motor is closer to the left tire.

brian has said many times here that he has never run offset pod, and that the reason that you would is if you are having problems with traction when coming out of the corner, usually related to laying down too much power for the track. he says that he has never encountered such a situation.

by going to a normal pod (pod mounted towards the right or center of car) it will loosen your car some.

RIGHT?? hehe

Hi Brian, just out of curiosity. Do you think by using a heavier LR spring it gives the car more steering because it transfers more weight to the RR tire during cornering or because it doesn't let as much weight transfer to the RF tire?Have heard it both ways. Thanks

Okay

I get it... My trouble is the left rear sticks out from the body a bit.. (from my name you can guess this isn't a good thing)

I'll have to order a new hub for the right side and try that.

This set up thing and me never seemed to be on the same page... It is becoming alot clearer..

Sir,

When running the pod offset, you should be running a narrow left rear hub and a wide right rear hub. This should take care of the left rear tire sticking out from the body. When you move the pod to the left you have to change hubs to compensate for that which keeps the tires in relatively the same place that they are when running the pod straight up...use spacers for fine tuning.

Sir- the info that everyone has given is correct. the way your car is setup now is offset but it doesnt sound like you are running the correct hubs..if you get a narrow left rear hub you can run it with pod setup both ways because you can use spacers to move it around.

RC- its really hard to tell how that adjustment effects the car...unfortunately with R/C cars you dont get a seat of the pants type feel like you do with a real race car so its hard to tell where the help is coming from. my guess would be that it loosens the car up because it doesnt allow as much weight to get to the right rear therefore making the car looser.

Hi,Brian.Excellent replies to all guestions all races should be very thankfull for your valuable info.Running an offset pod at Mikes track university speedway outdoors a stiffer spring on l.h. side you have to crank up r.h.side quite a bit to get some wedge is this normal

ok..here is a spur & pinion question...if someone says run this rollout say 1.95...some may run a small spur & whatever pinion to get the proper rollout.some may run a lare spur & whatever pinion to get the same rollout..whats the differance? still the same rollout..:confused:

Hey Dom. Good to see you posting on here. I won't be at the races this weekend because of school stuff, but I will cya the week after that. Curtis.

Hi again Brian,do you think on asphalt by running a 100 spur instead of 120 say will give more bite in rear because of moving motor closer to axel or will lose snap out of turn,also what do think of Andy Mcl. front sway bar,going to try one this weekend on a assoc.Hi Curtis see you when you return.

Hi Brian,

its FRENCHY Pace...i have a question for you about tire...what is the difference between a WHITE and a GREEN..i know the wear is not the same white=low wear compared to a green....but what about the bite???

thanks and good lucks for the nats!!

Pace

Brian,,got a quick question,,or for anyone hear that is,,,,I hear everyone talking about the mack attack car or the adx,,,,,,,,I havent raced oval in about 4 yrs but am planning on returning to oval,,,having ran trinity and associated cars when I was racing oval,,,I need a little info on these cars,,the adx and mack attack,,,{price,,maker,,where to buy them at,,,and any somewhat opinionated statements about which car is better and why would be helpfull:thumbsup: Thanks gang and good luck to all oval racers,,,there aren't many of us left but we can change that!!!!!




Slowpoke:p

DOM- the first question you asked about having to put more left rear in the car witha stiffer spring on the left rear is normal..the stiffer spring compresses the lighter spring quicker therefore you have to offset that witha few rounds in the right rear shock. the andy mac front swaybar is a very neat piece..i tried one at the snowbirds but it didnt suit my driving style..i dont like my car to slide the front end at all and the swaybar while keeping the car flatter will tend to make it push a bit...give it a shot and let me know how you like it..everyone will have differing opinions on them..as far as the spur gear question, that is a tough one but i dont really think that will help the car a whole lot..with todays pan cars there are more adjustments to make up for those type of things..in theory it should give you more rear bit for because the motor is closer to the axle but by moving the motor closer to the axle you move it farther from the tbar pivot point and that in theory makes the pod have to work harder because its moving more weight farther because of the pickup point has been moved so far back...hope that doesnt confuse you even more.

Dave- that is another question the same lines of Doms but yours is concerning actual ratios and not handling...in my humble opinion it realy shouldnt matter what combination you run to get to the rollout that you want but when you do run larger spur/pinion combinations your gears are actually rounder and the pitch is much truer because of the size of the gear...if you ever ran a 15 tooth pinion then went and ran a 25 tooth pinion back to back the 25 is tooth is much quieter because it has a much truer pitch..this usually leads to the gear mesh being more efficient and hopefully your car running faster and longer.

Pace- actually whites will usually wear a little faster than greens but they do have a bit more bite espesially on ozite carpet..even though they are a rubber based tires whites wear out pretty quickly because they are so soft.

Slow- the two cars you mentioned are both very good cars...im slighly biased because i run for racetech but the qwner of ADX is a god friend of mine and they have a very nice design...keep in mind that when you purchase the Racetech car you a getting a whole kit and parts support that is generally nationwide..the ADX car is an upgrade kit for the associated 10L3O so you have to purchase all the parts seperate or buy a kit and not use the graphite parts, then you would buy the ADX upgrade to finish building your car. its really up to you as to which one you buy because you will get different answers from almost everyone but keep in mind parts availability at your local tracks and hobby shop when making your decision..you may have what you think is a great car but if you break and dont have parts your going home for the night, not a good situation. as far as price goes im not really sure..the racetech car is a bit more than most cars but its comes with all the hopups like aluminum servo and shock mounts,IRS axle and rear hubs etc..

What does changing the height of the center shock mount (angle of the rear shock) accomplish? Also, how does moving the shock mount forward or backward on the chassis affect the handleing? For side shocks, does it matter if they have some angle down or if they are flat across (ie. higher standoffs)? Can you use the RPM ballcups on the VCS micro side shocks and still have enough shock travel...or do you have to trim them down shorter?

Thanks Brian for the info,,,last question,,,where on the net can I go to look at the racetech car,,,and whats the most recent version of this car,,so I don't buy anything outdated,,,,,,,again thanks:wave:

Brian,what % of steering do you usually use on your radio 10,15,20,%& at what %do you finally say it,s pushing & do something to remedy the problem

What do front sway bars do? How does it "mount" or "fit" onto the front end? Where can I get one from? I heard something about Andy Mac. having one that worked well...do I contact him directly? Thanks for any and all help/comments!

Is there a such thing as a rear sway bar? If so, what does it do, and how does it "mount?"