brian you setup for l30 on flat carpet is killer!!
went a lap faster.i have2 questions 1 is what does
using the raceway blocks do and 2 what does raising
or lowering the rear side shock angle do?
thanks:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

impact- im glad the setup worked for you...the raceway blocks just make the front end more adjustable by allowing you change arm angles with the different holes...flattening the rear shocks softens them up side to side...i usually run shocks flatter on a banked track to allow the pod to move with the banking and run more angled on flat tracks to keep the car flatter

thanks brian,1 more thing what would changing to an offset pod do to the setup?:rolleyes:

running an offset pod is similar to putting more left rear in the car...it moves weight over and makes the car tighter...also it helps to get the car off the corner if it is getting loose coming off..the offset pod will plant the back of the car more.

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking about building a couple of center shocks with heavier oil and trying it out.

As far as centered or offset pod, is there a rule of thumb as to what track conditions would need one or the other? Like would a track with tight turns use straight-up to keep the rear free or centered to keep the LR planted on the way out?

Also, do you ever get a chance to get up to PottBelly's in south Jersey. There's usually a good crowd of fast guys from Delaware, PA, and NJ.
The track food is awesome too( can't beat homemade meatball hero's!!!)

Later,
Tom

TOME- i always try to run a straight up pod just because the car turns better that way...the tracks that you use an offset pod are tracks where your having a hard time getting the car off the corner because of lack of bite or with mod just putting down too much power. ive never been to either of those tracks but i might try to get up there in the near future.

Brian,

Would you suggest a straight up pod for a tight off condition? Also how does Center shock angle affect handling?

Hey Brian,

What piston are you using in the center shock? Also, what do you think about the HPI shocks with the bladder?

Tom

Brian loves the HPI shock...so much that he hasn't given it back to me from the Snowbirds yet...heh heh :dude:

brian what is YOUR method for adjusting with adjustable caster blocks. when do you run the left higher and when do you run it lower? (i knw this is kinda a debatable subject but i would like your opinion)

also what does spacing the wheels out in the front do (you never answered that one above).

I'm hearing a lot about the HPI center shock. Which HPI shock are you using. Want to give it a try and see what happens.

The HPI Touring shock is amazingly smooth and easy to build. Plus it is Threaded for easy preload adjustment.

Pepe- yes i absolutely would recommend that...it will help the car get in a bit better and should really help it coming off. As far as angle of the center shock its not so much angle as much as it is how far forward or back it is on the car...the farther forward it is gives you more steeriing going in the corner because it transfers more weight forward.

TOME- i run the HPI #2 piston in my shock and yes Todd is right...i love the HPI shock..it is virtually impossible to bulid wrong and is very smooth.

Todd- i never borrwed a shock...just the spring on the shock and i figured you had so many you wouldnt miss that one...hehe

KGB- thats a difficult question to answer because changing arm angles affects a car differently on different tracks...bakned tracks react different to arm anlge changes than flat tracks do and it is a difficult thing to explain on the computer...if you or anyone else is going to Akron come find me and ill try to explain it to you...not trying to be evasive just dont want to give somebody incorrect information.

Checkered- yes i do use the HPI shock and it works amazingly well.

thats cool. too bad i wont be at akron but i might someone that will. no worries man i know what its like to try and explain something complicated over the internet. takes FOREVER.

which fiberglass tplate specifically do you run when your not using spring steel? the .068 ae ones seem to stay bent when i use them.

i use the .063 when i dont run spring steel...they do have alot of memory so you have to be careful not to mess with the back of the car too much when your running one.

yeah thats exactly what i noticed about them. so you're saying just be careful if you use them?

yeah thats exactly it..they are very sensitive to movement.

ok i will have to try that out. thanks for the infoz

WHere would one find one of these for a 10l3O I thought TRC stopped making them

try superior hobbies in orlando. use the usual www's and .coms for contact info.

Thanks Brian I'll switch to the straight up pod this weekend and let you know how it worked.

SirCrash- the part # for the L3O spring steel is TRC 6300

Pepe- good luck..hope it helps

Hey Brian,

Is there a way to compare Wolfe springs to Associated springs ? I hear red, white, and green mentioned - are they comprable to 0.018 or 0.020 ?
Also, is there a place online to get Wolfe front and side shock springs on-line ? Can I get Thunder wings on line?

Thanks,

Tom

TOME57: Here are the spring compression rates, in pounds per inch:
Asc. - .018 = 9.2
- .020 = 14.1
- .022 = 22.9

Wolfe
Standard
-white = 8.0
- red = 10.0
- green = 12.0

Hope this helps.

todd-those are good numbers to know.whats a wolf purple and black in comparison to an assoc 22 and 24.thanks for the info.....now i got another tuning trick to help me when i hit the wall to many times on the same lap :eek:

here thank decco software

http://www.deccosoftware.com/forum/tech/SpringRates.htm

http://www.deccosoftware.com/forum/tech/T-BarNumbers.htm

VERY helpful

im not really sure what the wolfe black and purple are but they are not as stiff as the associated springs..i think the purple is 14.0 and the black is 16.0

I've seen allot of talk about using an HPI shock to replace the Associated VCS Macro shock (center shock) on either the L3O or the MacAttack. I called my LHS and they asked for part numbers or "throws". Does anybody have a part number for the shock that they are using?:confused:

the part # for the HPI shock set is HPI 72170...these are the threaded ones and they are sold in pairs.

brian,
when i use the spring steel t-plate do i have to shim it to make it level with the bottom of the chassis?if i dont its about .073 above.:rolleyes:

Ron, The center shock i use is also hpi, but its not from a touring car and it comes one to a package. It's used on the hpi proceed gas car. Its ultra smooth, comes with 10 different pistons, threaded shock body with o-ring for great adjustability. Its HPI Part#50533
you can see it on the proceed parts page by clicking here Proceed Shock/Parts (http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/instr/proc/proc-pl2.jpg) You'll need a little threaded piece to put in on the shock cap end so you can attach a ballcup to the pod, also you need to remove the "stock" shock mount, replace it with an associated standoff with a ball end in it. Its sounds like alot but believe me ....... this shock is smooooooth and very, very easy to build.

Click below to see the shock:
proceed shock in a 10L4 (http://home.cfl.rr.com/cneyedog/proceed.html)

:thumbsup: :wave: :thumbsup:

Hey Brian,

As far as dampening in the front end, do you use anything or do you run the kingpins dry ? Also, how would I use dampening to tune the front end ?

Thanks,

Tom

:cool:

cdog raceway makes a shock mount that will work with that hpi shock,thats a trick looking shock for sure where would I be able to get a cap for it? Also I keep hearing about this 10L4 but it is not listed on assoc's site?

Impact- i use one of the associated #4 aluminum washers to shim the spring steel bar to get it close to even.

Tome- i use MIP red cvd lube on flat tracks and Trinity Red stuff on banked tracks...the MIP is lighter and allows the front end to move faster therefore increasing how fast the car reacts...on banked tracks i run heavier because you have the bank to help the car thru the corner.

Pepe- there is no such thing as a 10L4...it is actually called the Factory Team L3O...its not available as a full kit, its only available as a conversion kit.

we consider the 10L3o with the factory chassis kit to be in fact a 10L4. why A&E still sells there 10l30 without the upgrade will remain a mystery forever i guess. far and away the best 60.00 upgrade you can purchase. the shock kit cneye is talking about comes with that cap in the package. you need a short standoff a ball stud and a short piece of threaded rod to complete the tuneup. you will never buy another shock again. raceway sells a mount? why spend big $$ when a short standoff will set you back 2.00 not 30.00.

pepe,

Did you get a chance to try running the rear pod straight-up this weekend at Easley? Also, have you tried any of the other suggestions I sent in that email a few weeks ago? I'm just wondering if they helped and how you've been running out there. I'm hoping to get out there to at least watch one weekend soon.

Paul

CUracer

I did switch to the straight up pod this weekend the car was slower but so was everybody else for some reason I think the whether was playing havoc, cold and kinda windy.I feel like I'm headed in the right direction the car is a lot more stable than a few weeks ago thanks for the help!

Tight flat track problem:

It tends to want to pick up the LR tire in center of turn. what can i do to keep the tire down and still keep the car free thru the turn?
I know giving it more wedge dosen't work just gives it a push off turn... (right now i have to run blue rr spring and silver lr spring) or silver and Olive. Should I space LR hub in? Stagger?



Or better yet should i just update my car and get something i can put weight on the pod?? hehe

Thanks:confused:

Q: What will moveing the right front tire back do to the car. I have allways been told that It will make that car push, but lately I have been told that I will make the car loose. What will it do and why? Thanks.

Hey Brian, regarding rear roll stiffness; my buddy and I were discussing your setup for our 3 shock cars, (FT L30, ADX 4 cell 19t) and we thought "sway bar". what do you think? nearly flat, tight asphalt. BTW, those bodies you ran at the birds: awesome. Have you tried the IRS front "caster blocks"?

Hi Brian,

I was wondering if you could give me an idea what stagger (pos. and neg.) on your front tires will do, especially on a flat track.

Thanks

JPH- moving the right front back and not moving the left front back will definetely make the car push..this is not a good idea..if you ever want to run wheelbase differences from side to side you should always want to run the left front shorter.

Darkman- it sounds like whta you may need to do i basically start over with your car...i would recommend rebuilding all the shocks to make sure everything is the same length and they all rebound the same..then i would rebuild the front end to make sure there is no binding in the kingpins...after you get the car back together check the left rear in the car..i would about an 1/8" of split..right rear picking up about 1/8" before the left rear comes up. this should solve your problem...usually when a car is so far off that it is lifting the laeft rear there is a problem in the car not necessarily a wrong setup..try this and let me know how it works.

Oval- regarding swaybars, in the past and i mean way past we tried them and they didnt really do a whole lot...they do a similar job of the shocks but they arentas adjustable as the shocks and you cant control the dampening as well. plus its heavier than shocks..thanks for the compliment on the bodies...they were painted by a friend of mine Brian Chudy from canada...i have not used the IRS caster blocks as of yet but they seem really nice and i like that you can adjust the length of the front arm with them.

BadSign- positive stagger on the front end of any oval track reagardless if its falt or banked will make the car tighter....and just the opposite is true of negative stagger...it will make the car turn harder all thru the corner.

i have something to contribute on stagger on a rwd vehicle.

the ONLY thing that running stagger in the front end of a car does is weight jacking. the taller tire places more static weight on itself, because it raises that corner of the car up. which explains why brian said that pos stagger tightens the car up....it adds rf weight and lf weight because of cross weight effect.

just so you know

Hey Brian,

Does putting a washer between the chassis and front pivot ball mount on a t-plate do anything ? If it does, what size washer should be used ?

Tom

Tome- yes it is does do smoething..ive used a .010 washer there before and it gives the car more rear bite...it helps get the car off the corner if thats a problem..usually thats not a problem on carpet but sometimes it can be an issue on concrete or asphalt tracks.

Brian -- A question in regard to the Center shock...

Racing at a big race this weekend, I had my Carpet Pro "suddenly" develop a handling problem after I got "helped" into the boards... I looked the car over and couldn't find anything loose, or broken, or bent or ???, so I just struggled for the rest of the day (7th place A-main, 19turn, but WAY off the leaders pace)...

AFTER the races, I bugged some of the "big dogs" and got them to look my chassis over... One found the problem, and the other came up with the cause... The center shock felt like it had no oil in it -- just no "damping" force at all! The bottom line is that the shock had plenty of oil, and none had leaked out -- the shock is the "old"/"buggy" style green hard anodized Associated shock, with the rubber bladder in the cap. This style of shock has worked well for me for YEARS, but in this case, it seems the big "hit" I received caused the bladder to collapse (almost turn inside out), so that the oil now could run down toward the cap, leaving none around the piston...

On my newer cars (the Carpet Pro is just my oldest G-Force converted to the Carpet Pro chassis plate and battery slider), I've used the Associated VCS (touring car) style center shock. I've never noticed a performance difference, so I left the "buggy" style shock on the Carpet Pro.

Should I change the Carpet Pro over to the "new" VCS style shock, or was this just a weird situation?

I would suggest trying an HPI threaded shock, bar none the best shock out there in my very humble oppinion. I know that Brian uses them, and I have been using them for about a year and a half now, and they are great. Easy to build, and super super smooth.

Tfrahm- that is a pretty freak problem that i have never seen happen..obviously its possible but usually not going to happen even if you take a wall down with a wreck...the new VCS style shocks work much better than the old ones but the HPI shock is bar none the best on the planet...i would not change your shock just because of this problem you had...you could race for the next 15 years and that probably would never happen again but if you want to try a different shock i would definetely recommend the HPI.

yeah brian is definately right.

what probably happened is that the shock velocity was so high that not enough oil could flow through the piston and instead just pushed on the bladder. this can actually happen to any bladder shock but like brian said you could go 15 years without it happening again.

get hpi...its bomb!

Hey Brian, heres a silly little question:I run long wolfe kingpins with lots of shims(actually a short piece of eighth inch brass tubing in lieu of a bunch of shims) with standard Wolfe springs. I run the blue Wolfe spring keeper under the spring. My question is, what about running another keeper on top of the spring? Reason i ask is, many times I've noticed the top of the spring leaning in against the kingpin/ pivotball. It must be rubbing and hindering that action. Another keeper on top would keep everything lined up nicely. Obviously, I'd have to go back to just a few shims to avoid too much preload?