SMROCKET can you go a little further in you reasoning on front and rear weight and the gears I'm not clear on it, thanks :thumbsup:

chuck47 simply put when you run larger spur and pinion gears you move the motor forward in the car closer to the rear pivot point. or running smaller spur and pinion moves the motor away from the rear pivot point, towards the rear axle. moving weight around in any car is a huge tunning tool.

Ok got it I thought it might have something to do with centrifical weight or something. :thumbsup:

One more thought on the big versus small spur gear debate. alarger spur will give you smaller roll out changes and this may help you zero in on amotors sweet spot on a particular track. Meaning a 1 tooth change on your pinion will give you a smaller change in ratio and may aid you in getting closer to the ideal roll out.

It is said that a large gear is supposed to give you a mechanical advantage and I need all the advantages I can get :D Thanks

I race at a concrete oval and what is a good set up ??? i got it the car set a little soft and it still pushes up to the top at the corners ...what tires what weight oil in the shocks and what springs would someone use i run a sb2002 whit a hd grand prix with a buds bi-level super wing mounted to the trunk....HELP PLEASE

chuck47 simply put when you run larger spur and pinion gears you move the motor forward in the car closer to the rear pivot point. or running smaller spur and pinion moves the motor away from the rear pivot point, towards the rear axle. moving weight around in any car is a huge tunning tool.

I never thought of it like that but it truly makes sense,so how does moving the motor back and forth effect the car (loose, tight ETC)?

I always understood it that moving the motor forward would reduce the unsprung weight of the rear, making the shock more effective and the rear dampening less dependent on the t-plate. Just a thought.

My back seemed loose but I just found out that I had to much spring (stiff) on the side shocks and center shock so I have to find out with the settings now that I have. Seems too stiff will make the back loose, there's always something to learn hey :D

My back seemed loose but I just found out that I had to much spring (stiff) on the side shocks and center shock so I have to find out with the settings now that I have. Seems too stiff will make the back loose, there's always something to learn hey :D
yea a rule of thumb is stiffer= looser, softer = tighter.

Always remember ! that famous saying "plant the rear make it steer"

of course this is much easier said than done.

Pepe: I feel that motor placement is more crucial for bumpy tracks then just cornering. The further the forward the motor is on a bumpy track, the better. This results in less motor movement, since it is closer to the pivot point of the rear suspension... thus easier for the suspension to control.
Sometimes more rear bite can be obtained by placing the motor closer to the axle,(usually on a banked track) and sometimes it actually loosens the car, (usually on a flat frack) depending on the car, track, etc. The reason this can react differently is based on how the force is applied. On a flat track, the g-force load is more horizontal, or side to side. With the motor further back, it acts as a pendulum, placing a greater side load on the rear tires...sometimes causing the rear of the car to feel loose. If there is really good bite though, it can also make the car feel tight by sticking the RR harder.
On a banked track, the load is more vertical, so placing the motor closer to the rear is basically like moving ballast to the rear, resulting in more rear bite. There are exceptions to every rule, and by no means has anyone ever started with motor placement to setup their car. It can be used as a fine tuning technique once your car is 99% dialed.
BADSIGN: You're on the right track, but the only way to reduce unsprung weight is to physically lighten or remove weight, not move it's location...there would still be the same amount of unsprung weight, just in a different location.
For anyone who may not know what unsprung weight is, it is any weight that does not have a suspension spring between itself and the ground. As for shocks and springs, consider half of their weight sprung, and half undsprung. A major concern and cost in any type of racing is to reduce unsprung weight at all costs. It is the least "useful" weight in a car since it doesn't contribute to the weight transfer that the suspension governs.
Hope this helps, looks like a good discussion...Keep it going. :thumbsup:

Thanks Todd,very useful information that I didn't know.

Thanks as well Todd. It's amazing to me the tuning differences that I still discover. I never would of thought of the motor! I guess that's what separates me from the fast guys! (and driving ability, practice time, equipment...) :)

New question for Brian, Todd, or anyone else...

What effect does changing the angle of the main shock have? It seems to me it would be a very fine adjustment to use when a spring change would be too much. I'd like to know before I drop $25 on an adjustable shock mount.

And everybody thought TP was just a motor god!

BadSign, I use Raising or lowering the center shock to help the car ride the bumps better, raising it for bumpier tracks and lower for smooth tracks.

Most cars these days have multiple mounting locations for the mount also, this effects weight transfer, more forward for more front bite and vice versa.

I have a question on foam tires, what are the colors combinations going from soft to firm. I generally run Jaco's but have some BSR's also. Thanks

I have a question on foam tires, what are the colors combinations going from soft to firm. I generally run Jaco's but have some BSR's also. Thanks
Chuck, I have a chart that I put together, I will mail it to you in the morning when I am at work, it has both tire makers on it too. :thumbsup:

Hey thanks Jake that will be a big help I'm color blind and have to keep this in order some way :D

Chuck
Check out the setup sheet here, page 2 has both BSR and Jacco. The only missing one is Jacco black which is 42-42 shore.
http://www.classichobbiesraceway.com/SetupSheet/SetupSheet2-03.pdf
Thank Garey Smiley of Classis Hobbies for this fine sheet!

chuck- let me know if you still need that info...i can post it on here if needed.

brian...is it possible to go slower when running harder tires, if the car is totally driveable? i am wondering if it is possible to have tires so hard that the rear is actually slipping slightly and losing speed. running 4 cell stock, on 158' runline track or bigger

Brian thanks for checking on the charts but 300m and jake have sent me the info, boy if a guy wants to know something about Oval racing this is the place :thumbsup: thanks for the info all, let's race :roll:

rcavenger- yes it is very possible that can happen...sometimes you may not notice it but you may be spinnig the rear tires and not know it...this is usually harder to notice when running a lower powered car such as 4 cell stock because the cars feel easy to drive anyway.

well, i have been running narrowed black JACO rears, a black JACO LF, and blue JACO RF on a 158' runline flat track, w/ fairly broad corners. the car is a bullet thru the corners, as far as i can tell. had track record for sometime, then it got beat by 1 second at the last race of the year.

is there any easy way to tell if it is spinning the tires and slowing the car down? or, is it something that can only be seen on the stopwatch?

Maybe just try a softer LR and see if your times pick up?

Brian, Are there any features or adjustments that you should have in a radio that are helpful for oval racing? Earlier in this thread, a comment was made that "a lot of the setup is in the radio." They were talking about the K&N track in CT, but this might apply to any track.

I need to get a radio and have no experience with all the features available. So, I don't know which ones are important to have, and which are not. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, waw...

Brian, Are there any features or adjustments that you should have in a radio that are helpful for oval racing? Earlier in this thread, a comment was made that "a lot of the setup is in the radio." They were talking about the K&N track in CT, but this might apply to any track.

I need to get a radio and have no experience with all the features available. So, I don't know which ones are important to have, and which are not. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, waw...

Throttle curve, steering curve, exponatial(spelling?), and servo speed adjustment are good, especcially the servo speed.

Maverick: Throttle curve?? I use steering, exp and speed. Can you elaborate?

Chuck: :) Brian and others helped me get started last month. I am new to oval.

Mav, Brian, or anyone: I too have the same question as 300m. How 'bout some help with these radio settings, particularly the servo speed. I have a fast servo (Futaba S9550) and have heard that I should slow it down. What do you guys recommend? :confused:

300M I was refering to the set up sheets for the Jaco and BSR foam tire compounds the site you said had a good explanation on it, thanks :thumbsup:

Chuck47: Thanks, I will search the site.
1loosenut: I have the S9450,the speeds are the same, 9450 has more torque. I run mine reduced to 70% on turn and 90% return Sevo is just to strong and fast.

Is there a post on proper shimming the front susp.? Or could someone explain how to do this? Thanks in advance.

B

What can I do to get more turn in?
Do castor changes make a big difference?
When should I use lighter side shock springs? Or heavier side shock springs?

Tome57,

Running split caster can help your car to turn in. Try running more caster on your RF then the LF. I currently like running 0 degree caster on the LF and 4 degree's caster on the RF. I find this setting helps the car to turn in well and stay down in the middle of the turn and get off the corner well. Your car may like a different setting depending on setup and driving style. Be carefull of putting to much caster in the car because this can also scrub some speed. Usually up to 6 degrees on the RF can be used.

Also try moving your wing more forward. This can also help the car to turn in, but may loosen the car getting off the corner.

Geez... is this thread dead already?.... :lol:

No not dead this early Hankster were just gearing up for the summer it's just that the summer has just been soooo cold 44 yesterday shose tires just would not want ot stick in that

Hey Burkhart where are you!!! :thumbsup: :tongue:

Pace :devil:

Tome57,

Running split caster can help your car to turn in. Try running more caster on your RF then the LF. I currently like running 0 degree caster on the LF and 4 degree's caster on the RF. I find this setting helps the car to turn in well and stay down in the middle of the turn and get off the corner well. Your car may like a different setting depending on setup and driving style. Be carefull of putting to much caster in the car because this can also scrub some speed. Usually up to 6 degrees on the RF can be used.

Also try moving your wing more forward. This can also help the car to turn in, but may loosen the car getting off the corner.

castor jacks weight into the tire that you have it in. this is because the as the tire is turned it moves down slightly, thereby raising that side of the car and adding weight there. in real life it has other effects (that help the driver have improved feel) but in rc thats the main thing. well that and the fact that the car pulls with castor split! hehe :)

Brian are planning to come to Seaford on the 7th hope to see you there.
Jason H. SureSot/JBM MOTORSPORTS :jest:

I cannot find an answer to this so someone point me to the right thread if it is out there. Spacers on the rear axle. Adding to the right side only, what does that do, and I know it moves the right tire out but what does that do to hadling? Then what does adding spacers to the left side only accomplish? I am pushing as I apply power and come out of the corners. Goes in nicely but pushes coming out of the corner. This is only my second season outside on asphalt and I still have lots to learn. Thanks Ralf :cool:

Adding to the right side only, what does that do, and I know it moves the right tire out but what does that do to hadling?

Loosen the car up.

Then what does adding spacers to the left side only accomplish?

Tighten the car up.

I am pushing as I apply power and come out of the corners. Goes in nicely but pushes coming out of the corner. This is only my second season outside on asphalt and I still have lots to learn. Thanks Ralf :cool:

What are you running for side shock springs now?

Ralf this thread seems to be dying that Brian started. There is a new thread though that is the same with a new person running it, it is called New Oval Questions go there and it will be more active

Hello everyone,Brian or anyones help would be great.
In stock class on a indoor carpet track(flat)If I take weight from the the left rear wheel car is loosen up the car,But If the car is hooking in the corner it seems to be a little flat coming off the corner(scrubbing speed)
The car can dive hard into the corner and just seems to hold to much bite coming out of the corner.Not in steering just seems to to be to planted to the track to much.To much bite.
What is the proper weight shift,More weight on the left rear right?
One guy has more weight on the right rear and is blistering fast.So I am kinda confused.His corner speed is awesome!
What do most of you run on center shock and t-bar?Stiff or Soft for stock med. traction (somewhat high traction by the Mains) carpet flat track?And as the tracks traction picks up what changes should I make to loosen the car up to keep from losing corner speed?

Thanks for any and all suggestions

What compound tires are you using?

BSR-purple LF pink RF White LR black RR

I would put the pink on the left front and the purple on the left front.
Or better yet, use a green LF and a black RF.

this is a great thread Dont forget about it. Great for beginners and advanced.

What is the proper angle for steering linkage? I'm putting a new car togeather where I have to drill the servo mounting holes and have never given it much thought.

thanks in advance

What is the proper angle for steering linkage? I'm putting a new car togeather where I have to drill the servo mounting holes and have never given it much thought.

thanks in advance

Grasshopper:....Think of this for a secound:

The Associated arms are designed for ON ROAD Racing.
You need alot more steering to get the right ackerman on the front inside wheel.

Ackerman is the geometry of steering where the inside front wheel is steered in a sharper arc than the outside front wheel in order to eliminate tire scrub on the inside wheel.

Think of the amount of ackerman and controlled bump steer you will need if any.

The proper angle for the steering linkage will be the same angle as your upper A-arms to eliminate all bump steer. :thumbsup:


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No. I'm not a crew cheif. I just stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!! :cool:
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Grasshopper:

The proper angle for the steering linkage will be the same angle as your upper A-arms to eliminate all bump steer. :thumbsup:



Just a little clarification about what is said above. If you are looking from the back of the car towards the front......base on the above premise......should the steering linkage look like the letter " T " or a sharp pointed arrow " ^ " from where it connects from the servo extending outward to the front wheels. Of course this will be for OVAL (concrete, high bank) use. :rolleyes:

Thanx :dude:

From what I have gotten from the GURU's it should look like the arrow and from straight the servo should be moved about 3/16 to 1/4 inch ahead to get the arrow effect. Hope this helps some it's not crew chief science or anything like that just what I got from the top dogs and looking at other cars.:cool: