brian- can we get some clarification as to where exactly you are putting the red spring, because the physical left shock is actually the RR shock, and the physical right shock is actually the LR shock.

if i remember correctly you had the red spring on the RR tire (left shock) and the gold on the LR tire (right shock) to prevent roll in the rear end. is this correct?

thanks much for all your help dawg (no thats not derrogatory)

I would be interested in Brian's response too, but I can tell you that all the racers that I know of refer to the physical shock location...

This approach is consistent from one car to another, and thus when they talk about the "left" shock, they actually mean the shock on the left side of the chassis (facing forward), which as you pointed out is the shock that actually controls the force applied to the right rear tire...

This common approach is a bit confusing -- if a racer pulls his car over to you and asks you to crank in some "left rear", you have to remember that he really means to adjust the shock on the RIGHT side of the chassis (to add left rear tweak)... Sort of like the old tweak screw days, when the right screw controled left rear tweak... I'm so confused! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/confused.gif

Brian, I have a question about running a stiffer left side spring too.

I know that it will hold the chassis more level in the corner, but in your opinion will that loosen or tighten the car. I say it loosens the car in the middle of the corner because it transfers more weight to the RR tire.

Let me know your opinion.

Danny B.

...Brian refers to "left shock" and "right shock" as if you were sitting in the car driving it. Left shock is on the same side as the battery, right shock is on the same side as the nerf wing. He runs a stiffer spring on the left shock,(battery side) to help eliminate chassis roll. Hope this helps...

Todd is correct about the shock positioning and also about the stiffer spring....the stiffer spring keeps the chassis flatter in the corner and therefore loosens the car up...its not just in the middle but its more noticed on entering the corner because the car isnt dumping over too badly...99% of all flat track races are won or lost on whether or not your car can get in the corner hard enough..this even more important in stock and 19t where you cant make up for a bad car with horsepower.

phew words to live by right there! that is the truth.

Okay guys I'm a little confused here about this caster thing.No caster on the right front for maximum steering from the middle out,a small amount of left front caster to help get in the turn, correct? Also whats the difference between changing the caster with shims under the lower a-arms and shims on the caster blocks is it not the same result?

pepe,

In order to get the maximum steering from the middle out, you want to run split caster, which is little or no caster on the LF and 4 degrees or more on the RF.

I sometimes add shims/spacers under the front part of the lower a-arm to add more caster to one or both sides. This is something I've learned about recently and I'm not sure why it works (more caster on both sides). Maybe Brian or someone can explain it.

There is no difference between using the shims on the caster blocks vs. shims under the front of the a-arms except that you can add more caster (greater than 4 degrees) by using shims under the front of the a-arms.

You all feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with anything I've said...I've been known to get things mixed up when I'm trying to explain them without a chassis in front of me. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by CUrcracer (edited 03-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by CUrcracer (edited 03-05-2002).]

Posted this before I realized I could edit the post above...sorry guys.

[This message has been edited by CUrcracer (edited 03-05-2002).]

Burky - If you run a stiffer spring on the LR shock, doesn't that automatically put reverse tweak into the car (all other things being equal and assuming you run both side shock collars at equal length) ? Do you run it like that or do you adjust to bring the pod back to level ?

I want a new car for this weekend , i race 6 cell oval stock on a flat carpet (123ft drive line ) the track is about 45 ft wide . Brian do you our does anybody have any suggestions . I know that the car doesn't make the man but some cars may be better for my track (flat and short ) Thanks for any help you can give me .

Hey Brian,

I was wondering what type of batteries and charging methods you would recommend for 19T/4 cell racing on a velodrome (Indianapolis).

Chris, i m sure Brian will say the same thing of me!!

i suggest you the MacAttack for flat carpet for 6cells stock class!! i use this car at the snowbird for the 6cells stock and my car was a missile...i qualify second and miss the Tq by only .15 sec...and during my best run i hit a marshall and lost 1.5 sec!! and during the main my car was faster than any car on the track but i was bad lucky i hit a lap car and broke my front end!!

this car is really nice and really fast!! you just have to put the magic Brian Carpet set-up on it!!

Pace

Chassis Doc- yes you are right that if everything i equal you will have right rear in the car which is backwards..i adjust the shock collars to get the desired amount of left rear in the car.

Chris- just like Pace suggested id recommend the MacAttack for flat carpet oval...it also works good on banked tracks so your not limited to what tracks it will work well on.

BadSign- it depends on what kind of batteries you are running...we only run the Sanyo 3000HV in all of our classes and we charge them at 8amps with a .08v cutoff...HV's like to be hot and they run better when they are that way...we deadshort ours for 19T racing but this kills runtime by about 30-40 seconds so i probably wouldnt recommend it for velodrome racing because runtime may be a factor

i di could not find a mac attack so i traded for a hyperdrive adriniline i will have to race it for a couple of weeks until i can get a mack does anybody have any help with a hyperdrive thanks <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Brian Burkhart:
Chassis Doc- yes you are right that if everything i equal you will have right rear in the car which is backwards..i adjust the shock collars to get the desired amount of left rear in the car.

Chris- just like Pace suggested id recommend the MacAttack for flat carpet oval...it also works good on banked tracks so your not limited to what tracks it will work well on.

BadSign- it depends on what kind of batteries you are running...we only run the Sanyo 3000HV in all of our classes and we charge them at 8amps with a .08v cutoff...HV's like to be hot and they run better when they are that way...we deadshort ours for 19T racing but this kills runtime by about 30-40 seconds so i probably wouldnt recommend it for velodrome racing because runtime may be a factor</font>

Brian and/or anyone else,

I'm getting things ready to go race on a flat carpet track for the first time in years (Race City in Mooresville, NC) and could use some setup help w/ info. such as tires (brand and compound), gearing, body/wing, shocks, and more...the more info. and details, the better...like I said, it's been a long time since I've run a flat carpet track and I know things are completely different than running paved oval. By the way, I'll be running a triple-shock MacAttack (non-carpet pro) w/ the t-plate rear pod. Thanks!

thanks todd and brian. i was pretty sure that when you said left shock you meant physical left shock. damn these reversed shocks.

and thanks again to brian for some good setup tips, i stole your setup from the birds and ran it on one of the asphalt ovals here and it steered INSANE and it goes through the corner like there IS NO CORNER. it was a tad loose though (hehe wicked steering really) so i tuned that down a bit, and its SICK fast. i wouldnt have thought to try no roll in the back and promoting roll in the front but boy does it work....wait i mean it doesnt work..yeah thats it...DONT set your car up like brians...yeah that will umm make you slow...yeah yeah. hehe

seriously though, thanks again brian for being cool and helpin everyone out, too bad you dont drive for kgb http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif

Hey Brian.. Just what the heck is a Black..? I've been running TC's to long, my memory is clouded.

Thanks CUcracer!
I was going by what the instructions on the assoc front end said for caster Which is totally backwards from what everybody else is telling me about caster,this is why I'm confused somebody please chime in and explain what's going on I just want to understand why I'm making the changes I'm making! your split caster front end seems to be what everybody is running and I really don't understand why, other than IT WORKS.

Bobby- a black is mixed tire not a true rubber based tire but also not a true foam based tire..its in the middle...also Jaco is the ONLY tire manufacturer witht this tire..others have black but its not the same tire.

KGB- no problem..im glad it has helped.

CUrc- my best advice about Race City is go there and ask a couple of locals for some help..i went down there to test and i can tell you that nothing from a standard flat track setup works at all...its a cool place to race but its very strange when it comes to getting your car right..not trying to be evasive about setup but its a difficult place to get hooked up on and be fast...at least in modified.

Pepe- i dont really mess with split a whole lot but keep in mind that the more caster you run the car turns harder going in and gets tighter coming off and the less you run the more the car pushes going in but steers more coming off.

ok i got a stupid question...I'm running on a flat 144ft carpet oval and i was wondering should i be able to hold my throttle wide open all the way around if my car is hooked up. Or do most ppl blip there throttle in the corner?..thanx

Trackdog- it depends on how wide the infield is and what class your running...in modified or 19t i always lift regardless if i have to or not because i use it as a timing point. blipping the throttle is probably not slowing you down anyway.

Looks like I might be heading to Sandhills Raceway for their ROAR State Championship race on March 16th. For people that have raced there, what would be a good starting setup running a MacAttack and Jaco tires for 19T.

What body do you all prefer for flat and baked carpet ovals?

CUrc- i think the last time i ran there i ran silver side springs with 30et oil. high ball studs to get the shocks flat. Red associated center spring with 60wt oil. .020 associated front springs..wing on the body and i ran the protoform regular Monte Carlo..flat tracks i prefer the HD Protoform Monte Carlo.

hey brian, would you suggest using the steel t-plate on my Mac-Attack car

Brian, thanks for the info ........ I've actually learned something today ....... now if I can just remember it ............ lol.

Brian, is it normal to get a very small lip on the inside of the RF tire for foams? I am running a purple RF on a slightly banked Asphault track. Thanks, Curtis.

Brian,tried adapting your Snowbirds set-up to my car for a track that is very similar.With the exceptions of tires,I run BSR's and I was using the pivoting pod.The car turned in really hard which was really good but if I missed the line any the back wanted to snap aroung in the middle of the corner.Adding tweak and putting on a harder tire on the RF didn't really affect the entry but caused the car to push off.Tried putting a stiffer spring on the right front but the car was still snapping around.What would be your next step?I went back to my normal set-up tweaked on it a little and went 2 laps faster but the car just doesn't turn in as hard that way,with the heavier spring on the RR.My set=up is slow in and good off what I took from your set-up is fast in and really twitchy in the center and off.I'm thinking that there is to much pod movement with the pivoting pod to really use your set-up effectively.Any opinions?Thanks for your help.

Ovalman- yes that is vey normal...especially on asphalt.

Bob- its hard to say what i would try next...keep in mind that the setup that i run and also gave everyone is a vey aggresive setup as far as sterring goes which it seems you have found that out...you might want to try and move the battery in on the tray and also slide them back a little bit...also you can really adjust your car by fine tuning how much traction compound you run on the right front...if your doing the whole tire try and do only 3/4...this may seem like a bad way to get your car to work but if your chassis is balanced compound has alot to do with how the car works.

OK, thanks, Also what are your suggestions for storing 3000HV's for 19turn use? Thanks, Curtis.

Ovalman- i would store them as normal...by that i mean just dump them to 5.40 and then tray them...i have never dead shorted 3000's so im not sure about that...i do know that by doing that you lose 30-40 seconds of runtime....at the Snowbirds the pack i ran was only put in a tray but not deadshorted.

What type of tray do you use? And did you use the same pack the whole weekend at the snowbirds? Thanks, Curtis.

Hi Curtis, Pro-Match make's tray's called "2x4's" They will hold 2-4cell pack's or a 6-cell pack. I keep my 3000's stored in the tray's! The great thing about this is, the tray's keep the batt's susspended at a 1/2 Volt or You will get the normal 20-30 sec loss of run time just as if you Dead-Shorted them, but there's no question in my mind that this treatment of them is much better then acually soildering a wire across for the dead-short. You can contavt Pro-Match @ 520 855 2226

Hey Big John, I allready got some of those trays from Jeff. I have 3 packs that I started leaving on them, but I haven't cycled them to see how the numbers have changed yet.

Hello i'm new to the forum and was looking for a setup for the L4O.I run on a 155'driveline flat carpet oval (verymild ripples in straights).I currently run white rears,green lf,black rf.any help would be appreciated
thank you.

Ovalman- i used a trinity realtime tray and yes i used the same pack all weekend in 19T.

Impact- go back in this thread where i posted the setup i ran at the snowbirds and check that one out..i ran the MacAtaack this year but last year i ran the L3 Factory Car and used the same setup.

Brian B: I've run electric oval for 14 years, this year I'm running a RACEtech Nitro Slider with the three shock kit, a OS.12CV, and fixed 60/17 gear ratio. The Track is Lagoon Park R/C Raceway in Montgomery, AL. Asphalt oval with 310ft run line, 265ft infield line, 25ft diameter turns, 30ft wide all around, pretty flat at about 5 degrees banking.

I have a few questions. :)

1.) I have heard guys say they run a stiffer spring on the front left before, but don't understand why?

2.) I run Wolf stuff up front, do you prefer standard or progressive rate springs, and why?

3.) The nitro slider, like my electric G-Force, is slotted on the front right so the right front steering assembly can be slid back. What is the advantage of having the front right back farther than the front left?

Thanks in advance.

Alex- you run a stiffer left front spring because it the weight of the left front spring keeps the tire planted better. I always run standard Wolfe springs because they are more consistent than Progressives...when a spring is progressive it is softer initially then gets siffer and this causes light cars such as pan cars to react very strangely becuase of the variation in stiffness. if you are going to run a different wheelbase on each side of the front you want to run the right front longer than the left front to get the car to turn better. you never want the right front shorter.

Hey Brian,

My questions are about wings and spoilers. When do you run a wing? When do you mount it to the body or pod? When should I use a spoiler? When should I use a wing and a spoiler? What is the basic starting point for the wing - height and front to back measurement?

I race on flat asphalt, flat carpet, and high banked carpet, 4-cell 19 turn and stock.

Thanks,

Tom

Big Al: If you run your left side wheelbase shorter, the car should turn into the corner harder. If you run the right side wheelbase shorter, it should turn from the center out harder. We sometimes make these adjustments on the full size race cars, but usually only when our hands are tied to straighten out the car some other way. For R/C, if your on caps, and you have exhausted all options such as tires, springs, etc; try these adjustments to get a little extra where you need it. Use VERY SMALL increments of adjstments, because it doesn't take much.
Hope this helps...

Yes, thank you Todd, and Brian. I'm glad you guys are sharing your knowledge, I'll pass it on to our locals. :thumbsup:

Brian What is a good starting point for width of rear axel on mac attack carpet flat track. and what does spacing them out left or right do? Should a guy put the spacer on the right front to move it out? On shocks what does heavier springs oil or lighter springs or oil do to the car I have been running Dillion tweak and am switching to shocks and need to be enlightened on this please.Should a guy run a spoiler on a car with a wing I run a wing but i see some guys run both? Thank You In advance.

LittleAl- i usually dont measure rear axle width but i run a Wolfe graphite axle that has an 1/8" shoulder on the right side then i run a 1/4" spacer with a narrow IRS left side hub...spacing the rear wheels farther apart gives the car less rear traction and the closer the rear wheels are together the tighter the car gets...moving the left rear in gives you more bite off the corner...moving the right rear out loosens the car up....heavier springs tend to loosen the car up but for side springs the stiffer you can run the better on flat tracks because the car stays flatter in the corner...oil wise is also similar with heavier oil loosening the car up but it also slows the reactions of the car down because the shocks cant rebound as fast so the car feels lazy...if you are running a wing you should run a spoiler too regardless...wings are more for directional stability and the spoiler is more for actual downforce to the rear of the car.

Thanks for the information. One more thing is the racetech a arm spacer to move the right front out good or bad?Thanks again.

I was wondering what the best set up is for the diff? Some people pin their diff and some don't what's the best way or is it just personal preference? I've tried both ways and can't really tell any difference. Also what's the best starting point for spacing of rear axle? Thanks.

i prefer pinned diff!!

Pace

Hi BB..did you ever race at RCO in Hanover,Pa on there indoor asphalt oval? what set-up did you use with no traction compound...

Hey Brian,

My car does this little "wiggle" right at the apex of the turn. Entering and exiting seem ok but right in the middle it is a little out-of-sorts.
The class is 1/10 4-cell 19turn. I have 4-cell ADX chassis black BSR rears, black TRC RF, green TRC LF, 0.020 front springs, Raceway caster blocks top hole LF, middle hole RF, batteries all the way back and in, 0.063 t-plate, 30 wt oil in all shocks, with gold touring car spring, copper left, red right, IRS extended pod, short wheelbase, centered pod, Pontiac HD with wing mounted to body. The track is 162' with two dragstrips and two hairpins, kind of like a paper clip.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tom

I have a few other questions. How high should the side dams be on the wing? When rebuilding both the Associated macro (center) and micro (side) shocks how important is it to have the shock rebound? Some guys I know are starting to use no rebound so the shocks are kind of like swizzle sticks with springs.

Thanks,

Tom

Pepe- i always run a pinned diff...its much more consistent diff action.

Dave- ive never run on the asphalt at RCO so im not sure where id even start especially without compound.

TOME- the first thing i would do i put a heavier oil in the center shock...i never run anything less than 50wt on carpet...id start there but dont be afraid to go higher...ive used as high as 90 wt in certain situations...the heavier oil should calm the back of the car down...as far as shocks go, i always build mine with rebound...thats the advantage of a shock versus a stick is that you can control rebound more precisely and rebound is just as important as compression...you should always build your side shocks so they rebound at the same speed...if not the car will not be consistent.