New to oval,building my car now(rc10l3)any set-up opions would be Great!(going to run on flat ozite track,about 130ft.dr.line)anyways I have a questions on gears,so if it sound crazy remember a newbe to oval. I see some people running big spur and some not so big,does either have an effect on out of corner torque/speed or going smaller help keep the motor cooler. many ways to get roll-out what is the effects of big to small spur gears?thanks
:thumbsup:

I try to run as big of spur, pinion as I can. From what Im told it is more efficiant. It works for me. Someone correct me if Im wrong?

ok thanks,any theory behind it?I see the fast guy's running them.Just curious to why/whats the difference-has to be some logic to it.

The reason I run the biggest spur I can is so I can make finer gearing adjustments.

Tom

finer?well I am trying to figure out how to build this car as I go without backtracking(disassemble/reassemble)trying to figure out what size of spur for 4cell stock(130ft-150ft drive line)have misc.choices in pods,shocks,camber blocks,front sprins etc etc,I know I need to get at the track with the car ,just trying to get it somewhat in the ballpark,oval all new to me.thanks for everyone's input:thumbsup:

brian

i am looking for a setup for a high banked asfalt/slirry track. i run the mac-attack and we used to run caps on the concrete and then they put this down to get rid of them. do you think i am going to cange the car alot or do you think the setup from befor will work with foams. also what foams do you think i should try out, and what springs and oil should i use. i ran red and white on the concrete. i am runing factory mod also if that will help.

Thanks,
Andrew

SO FOAMS ONLY AT SHOWTIME NOW? ALOT OF NORTHERN CALIF. WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. ANY INPUT FROM SOME OF THE REGULARS THERE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
THANKS KEVIN

askalot- the biggest reason that running a bigger spur can be better is that is slightly more efficient and a bit quieter...bigger gears have a truer pitch than a smaller one...you wont see the difference in effiency at all.

kisbey- i would try and run the car similar to what had running caps because the track surface is different and the tires being different you just need to go out and get a base setup...even if its wrong you have to start somewhere...see what the car is doing with that setup and adjust from there.

Todd,

Nice run Dude! I thought I did good running a 38, but you set the bar up a little higher on your run with the 39. I was at Race Rock as well, but maybe you just listened to Brian a little closer then I did.
BTW - The other guys name is Tony, I think?

Brian,

I would also like to thank you for coming to Race Rock and giving the seminar. I told my wife that you told me that my old "swizzle stick" SB2 was out of date and that I stood no chance of being competitive with it. LOL That was all it took and the week after the race I went out and got a new L3O and cannot believe the difference. It was just like you said. I built the car, laid it down on the track and the setup was very close to where I needed to be. Thanks again for the words of wisdom and hopefully you can make it next year again. If not, then I'm sure we'll see ya at the Birds.

Brian ,I did a very stupid thing last night at the CDRCSCC mini Quad series. I have a Pana 3000 and a Sanyo 3000, 6 cell packs,well I carged the pana at 8 amps and .07 cut off,I heard it snapping slightly and discon it. I can only assume I ruined it. Will zapping it help ? or you can't zapp metel hydrides ?
What should one do to elim this prob in the future? 0f coarse if people have both as do I. We use the packs for stock racing,oval.
Thanks Bill

Thans Brian Burkhart for the reply,running a big spur gear(what size do you recomend?able to put about anything on with the pods I have)so it would mean a big pinion to get roll out,does this cause more motor heat?I always ran everything smaller in touring car and offroad,thought I was doing somthing about the motor heat having everything smaller,but but I may be overlooking something by not trying big spur/pinion set ups,so if you or anyone could shed some light on the differences would be Great-thanks:thumbsup:

Kevin,

I have been out there testing and i think that foams will work pretty good. also i am trying to get don to go all foams except for the expert mod drivers if they want to run caps. with the caps in mod i was running 4.7 and with caps on the old layout we were doing 4.5's. with the foams i had like 2 4.8s and the rest were 4.9's and 5.0's. i was running 2 green rears and purple fronts it worked good today.

Brian,

all i changed were my front springs from whites to a green and red


Thanks
Andrew

Barry- no problem at all..i ahd a blast at the race...it was the most fun ive had in a while..im glad the new car is working well for you.

Team21- as much as id love to tell you there is something that can be done i seriusly doubt it..panasonics are very fragile and they dont like high amp rates at all..you mihgt be able to cycle them normal a couple times and that might help a bit but im not sure..as far as the charger there really is nothing that can be done other than being extremely careful.

askalot- you do have to run a bigger pinion with a bigger spur but it wont the motor up anymore than the smaller combination...as long as you have a similar rollout you will be fine...i run a 124 spur everywhere i go.

Kisbey- sounds pretty good...bite should come up a bit and maybe you can get closer to those cap tire times. Good Luck

Try this for JACO http://www.jacoracing.com/

Originally posted by Kisbey_Modified
Kevin,

I have been out there testing and i think that foams will work pretty good. also i am trying to get don to go all foams except for the expert mod drivers if they want to run caps. with the caps in mod i was running 4.7 and with caps on the old layout we were doing 4.5's. with the foams i had like 2 4.8s and the rest were 4.9's and 5.0's. i was running 2 green rears and purple fronts it worked good today.

Brian,

all i changed were my front springs from whites to a green and red


Thanks
Andrew

thanks for the infoz andrew. get don to ban caps. i mean isnt the point of going to asphalt to run foams, seems like a waste if he paved it just to get more traction.

foams!

Brian
I have to let everyone know,I cycled the Pana 3000 after hearing it the night before girggleing and crackleing. I am amazed I cycled it ,and WOW the #'s are still fine,I can't believe it.I never heard the cells vent ,but boy they sure made some awful noises. Here are the present #'s, 9.81 peak volt, Disc. 292 at 30 amp,Dis. Ave. 6.36,and I.R. 222 ---I guess I'll double check the settings from now on.

Thanks Brian,every fast guy I see runs the big spur,I have been on this spur gear dilema since I started racing,figured out going from 48 pitch to 64 gave me finer gearing ability,just trying to figure out the logic behind the big spur gear set-up,I am going to run the big set-up because ALL fast guy's seem to ,just want to know why I am so I can tell the next newbe thats asks,I can give a honest answer.thanks for your time:thumbsup:

"Here are the present #'s, 9.81 peak volt, Disc. 292 at 30 amp,Dis. Ave. 6.36,and I.R. 222 "

Looks like these things are dead!

Ted- congrats on your promotion..i heard all about it.

Team21- not to bring you down but those number sound like the battery got hurt pretty bad...292 is actually good runtime for 2400's..6.36 averages out at 1.06 per cell which is not very good..the internals at 222 is 37 per cell which isnt very good either...avg sanyo disharge is 350secs. 6.92v 19.2Actual IR...not trying to be mean but the battery took quite a hit but dont feel bad if the numbers were that way before then it really doesnt matter.

To all:

I'm not sure if this has already been asked, but could someone explain what different caster angles do for steering. A general rule would be great, not looking for exact degrees. Would running different degrees on each front tire help or hurt steering? Also when referring to more or less caster would the king pin be more horizontal or verticle.
thanks

Ted - Drop me some mail. I don't have your email address or number and Rick said we need to chat. Thanks.

Brian - Wassup bro? Goin to NORRCA?

Ted - What promotion? What are you doing now?

Brian, thanks! I thought I was busy before, but now....WHEW...I am learning a lot more about chassis and aero stuff though. We got some new heads approved for your buddy Tony to run on the dirt cars, should help. Putnam should be happy too!

Greg, will do. I was talking to Rick this morning about the important stuff......R/C Cars. Sounds like he did pretty good last weekend.

Ted - do you by chance know the Brauns - they are racing Arca now in a Dodge and doing good. They were big in R/C and were my biggest sponsors for a long time. There car has one a few races this year...

See ya!

Mike, no I don't know them, I have heard of them but never had the pleasure to meet them. I keep running into people that race R/C cars and work on full scale cars. Jeremy Mayfield is an absolute R/C junkie,I think he has one of everything, his favorite is 1/8 dirt car that he runs on a dirt oval at his house. Ward Burton wants to get his kids started but I told him he probably couldn't afford it! The biggest trouble these guys have is time to play, the race and work schedule is crazy.
Hopefully we can get some of these guys to come visit us at the Snowbirds.

Ted

Hi all.

Holy Cow! What a thread. Iv read ALL afternoon and Im not even 1/2 way through! Great consistant info Brian!

Im new & running a 10L30 stock except for a IRS axle. Would this setup you discribe be good for a big carpet flat oval course?

oops...forgot the L3O setup
Frt springs = red right, green left, long front kingpins with Adj caster blocks, run thr right front arm with an angle and
run the left front arm flat.
T- Bar = TRC 6263 spring steel
Rear Springs = Red left rear, gold right rear, Red offroad spring cut to length
Oil = 35 in sides and 60 in center(Trinity shock oil)
Ride height = as low as your rules allow or high enough that you dont hit..also run about a .5 mm of rake in the
chassis
Tires = Black RR, White LR, Black RF, Green LF
Body = Protoform HD Monte Carlo 1223L
Wing = Thunder 2000L Small wing


Iv never run a pan on carpet, and have heard this car likes to push. Heres the 150' track. http://www.iroaronline.org/images/oval.jpg
Im starting out with the stock & sportsman class.

Brian::Which body would you use? can you get away with not running a wing in the slower classes & does the removal of it improve speed? Would you recommend black jayco's all the way around for least resistance? Is the idea is to free up a car so its fast, and learn to control its agressive characteristics? How do you setup a car for correct ackerman & bump steer?

So much info is kind of overwelming to a newbie like myself. Interesting..

Thanks

Mike

That is the long term plan.. if these guys keep getting involved then more and more will start to take notice of R/C.. and it works out perfect the 'Birds are the week before Daytona less than 1 hour away!

See ya!

Giantscale

that set up looks like a very good starting point.
My choice on front tires is usually blue lf and
double blue rf BSR's.

RustyDog- more caster angle is when the angle of the kingpin leans back toward the back of the car..generally more catser will help the car the turn more aggressively going into the corner and tend to push a bit more coming up off the corner...also more caster makes the car a bit less twitchy when going down the straightaways...as far as split i would mess a whole lot with it...id get yourself comfortable with how it affects your car before going to far into it.

ADX- yeah me and the frenchman will be going down for that race..should be a good time.

Ted- sounds like fun...i should be at Martinsville in a few weeks...hopefully ill see you there.

Giant- glad the info is helping..i run a protoform HD Monte Carlo on flat tracks and usually a standard Monte Carlo or a Pontiac depending on how much front downforce is needed...you always want to run the hardest tire you can because they will be faster but only if you can keep the car going in a straight line..in 4cell stock i would definetely run 4 blacks...as far as setting your car up aggressive and trying to deal with it thats a catch 22...sometimes you can teach yourself to drive an aggressive car but you might not be fast doing it...Nascar is a perfect exampleof this type of thing...some drivers can run a car very loose and save tires by be very gentle...others need the car tighter but they tend to use tires up a bit more...you can try and adapt your driving style to aggressive but only the stopwatch will tell you if you are making progress...i would not run a wing in the slower classes such as 4cell stock...it should improve your speed a bit...i would not get into ackerman a whole lot because it will probably get you going in a bunch of different directions...a good servo svaer that has good tie-rod locations is the Kimbrough large with the small end(stock on L3O).

Brian,

I've got about 1 year of oval racing under my belt. Your posts have been a wonderful help.

Can you explain the difference between a loose & tight diff? Am I correct in thinking that if I hold both rear wheels and I can't move the spur, my diff is tight? What is preferred as far as diff setup.

I can't wait to try "left trim". Can you also explain "Rear Steer" further?

thanks,

eric

i always run my diff as loose as possablw without slipping off the line. running it tighter will produce drag while turning and cause the car to push. imo. rear steer is simply that the left side wheel bse is shorter then the right, helping the car to turn under power.

eric- im glad the posts are helping you...you should not be able to move the spur when you hold the rear tires...but you also dont want it too tight because it will make the car tight like rocketkiller said...the diff should never slip off the line...rear steer is good for shorter tracks where your almost turning all the time...this is helpful because when the car is turning the rear tires arent inline with the fronts therefore causing drag...so if your turning all the way around the track this setup can be very helpful.

What does shims under the t plate balls do beside keeping the chassis from getting all dug up ?

disruptor- if you put shims under the front and rear of the t-bar pivot balls it actually lowers the rear of the car...you can get more rear bite by putting a shim under just the front pivot ball.

Rocket, Thanks!

Brian,

Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to make sure my diff is tight but not too tight. I need all the .01's i can get.

One other question: I also struggle with scrubbing speed through the turns(welcome to racing!). I run 10th scale, stock on a 250' flat carpet oval with ozite carpet. I run the following tire combination:

LF Pink
RF Purple
LR Blue
RR Blue

Could this tire setup be contributing to my issue? I clearly also understand that my driving lines(or lack there of sometimes) are probably my most major issue, however, I also want to ensure a properly performing car.

thanks,

eric

eric- you really shouldnt mix natural rubber tires(pinks,purples) with standard foams(blues,greens) together...you should always try to stay consistent...im not saying this is going speed you up or slow you down but it makes your car more consistent because of the way the rubber type tires heat up versus the standards not heating up...i would try 4 blacks on your car and see how that does...black is probably the fastest tire on ozite carpet especially in stock classes.

thanks Brian !!!

Brian,

Thanks...I'll give it a try.

eric

Brian-

When using different compound tires would it be better to try a soft LF or a harder RR first? And what one would have the greater effect? Thanks.

Hi Brian,
Just wondering if you could tell me how to hook up a 10 d in a Sprint Car at Coopers. lol. Hope you have put this on your schedule. Should be the best Dirt Oval race ever. Let me know your plans.:cool: :dude:

Xpressman- those two have a completely different affect on the car..when running a softer LF you will help to get the car to turn a bit harder going into and in the center of the corner...running a harder RR will make the car turn more but its because the rear is obviously loosened up...the harder RR will make the car looser everywhere not just going in and in the middle...it will actually make the car much looser coming off running the harder right rear...if you can get away with it the car will be faster running the harder right rear but only if you can keep it straight coming off the corner.

Brian any tips you can give on setup for an Assoc. L3O w/a factory team Chassis on 4 cell stock at MSA racing in Crossville 5deg concrete oval approx 285 ft. would be greatly appreciated.

Brain
having left rear softer than right rear should make it tighter all
the time, the lr softer will drive the car right. I may be wrong with this my 2 cents.

TJ

wow- ive never run there so i probably wouldnt be of much help with a setup.

toy- certain occasions that is the case but if your right rear is too hard the softness of your left rear doesnt really matter because the right rear does a majority of the work.

Brian or anyone,
We are switching our racing class this year from 6 cell stock to 4 cell 19t. The track is a small (about 180ft drive line) d shaped oval. I used BSR blue fronts & BSR green rears last year, what would you guys recommend for 4 cell 19t? I have an old style ADX & it was hooked up good last year, where would I start with battery position with 4 cells? Here's what I ran last year:
LF - Green Wolfe STD Spring
RF - Green Wolfe STD Spring
B3 King Pins
LR - 30wt oil, Silver Spring
RR - 30wt oil, Blue Spring
Center shock - 40wt oil, silver spring, about 9/32 preload (from edge of cap to top of spring collar - blue threaded assoc. shock)
Inline steering blocks
LF Caster = 3, Camber = 0
RF Caster = 4, Camber = -1.5
Battery Position 19/32 out from chassis to tray & 5/32 from rear of chassis to battery tray.
I also run the IRS Caster Blocks, looking at the front of the car the settings are:
RF - in the top, outer hole
LF - in the lowest (3rd down), outer hole.

I have two cars so I plan to get one set-up & use the other to test different set-ups. Any suggested changes, I am not sure going from 4 to 6 cell how it will throw off the weight. I have read alot off this thread on things I plan to try & wanted to get an idea where to start. I also have JACO tires to use also (except grays which I want to get a set soon). Thanks!!!

Brian - I see a bunch of different t-plates for oval pan cars out there. (i.e., spring steel, fiberglass (many different thicknesses), graphite) What does a different t-plate do for the handling on oval tracks? Should I have different plates for different tracks?

Heres what TEAM ADX ran last year
RF Caster – 4 Deg.
RF Camber – 2 Deg.
RF Spring – Wolfe Green
RF Arm – Lower Position
RF Tire – JACO Black
Ride Height – 5mm

LF Caster – 2 Deg.
LF Camber – 1 Deg.
LF Spring – Wolfe Green
LF Arm – Upper Position
LF Tire – JACO Green
Ride Height – 5mm

T-plate – TRC Med. Sprung Steel
Center Shock – Asc. VCS Macro
40 Wt., #2 Piston, Cut down Blue Asc. Spring
Shock Location – All the way forward
Zero Deg. Rear Steer
Ride Height (Under Rear Pod) – 5.5mm

LR Shock – Asc. VCS Micro
Asc. Red Spring, 30 wt.
LR Tire – JACO White

RR Shock – Asc. VCS Micro
Asc. Gold Spring, 30 wt.
RR Tire – JACO Aqua

Battery Position - All the way out and 1/2" forward

Body – Protoform HD Monte Carlo
Wing – Small Thunder mounted to the body

Hope this helps...:wave: :wave:

Thanks Steve,
You & Mick sure helped me out alot at the Outlaw race at Willow Mill this year. I was with Jeff Patch, I learned alot in those couple days about things to better the cars performance. Thanks Again & look forward to racing again with you guys sometime. Shaun N. (Naz53)

4cell- the t-bar is going to affect the car dramatically...the most used is the double slot spring steel from TRC...spring steel has a couple advantages...one is it has no memory so it will be much more consistent...the other is the strength of them...you can can bend or tweak them but you have to hit pretty hard to do so...a fiberglass bar can be inconsistent because if you bend fiberglass in your hand it will never come back to the same spot twice so when it is flexing in the car it is doing the same thing...i feel they make the car more difficult to drive and less consistent...different thickness bars will change how fast the rear of the car reacts...a thicker bar will give you less traction than a thinner one...if your track is really bumpy then you might want to go with fiberglass but id try to stick with spring steel.

Hey Brian,

I know the "best" carpet tires are usually blacks, but what difference would I see in using Blues, or maybe greens? I usually use blacks but I have a ton of blues and greens that I acquired when I bought some rc stuff online and wonder if I can use them. I run 4-cell 19turn.

Tom