A Futaba 9102 perhaps???

Brian,

All the tracks around here (the southeast) use caps both asphalt and concrete, actually my home track just got repaved this week.Honestly caps aren't that hard to get hooked up with, temperature is the biggest variable.There were some consistency issues also but the latest batch of tires seem to be very consistent(Thanks BSR)I'm not sure how it is where you're from but caps rule down here.My tire bill runs about $35 a month how does that compare to foams?

Pepe,
I think brian race jaco's and that may explain why he sour on caps. I feel the same way you do and they think i'm crazy? They have alot less rolling resistance.

Thanks for backing me up on that.
Greg:thumbsup: :wave:

Brian uses Jaco's exclusively !

Jaco doesnt have capped tires that i'm aware of, foams only. Radial tires are good for banked asphalt/concrete ovals like Lake Whipporwhill used to be.

If its a flat track I think its ALOT easier to get foam tires hooked up to it, especially if its not a permanent facility ...i.e parking lot etc.

If ya want less rolling resistance goto a harder foam tire, although the caps are probably still better in the rolling resistance department (brian, help me out here...lol)

The only bad thing with capped tires is they are alot easier to "tweak" if you hit something. Personally, I think the capped tire, while it made oval racing faster, probably did just as much harm because they cost so much to buy unless you knew somebody. I remember buying a set of trc capped tires for close to $100 back in the day at the Whip. I'll vote to race foams anytime, less expensive.

just my .02

Dog,

You're probably right about the flat tracks but we don't have too many flat tracks in our area mostly all banked asphalt and concrete permanent tracks I guess that would explain the popularity of caps here.Out of curiosity how many runs can you get on a set of foams generally?

i usually true them down to about 2.30 and can get about 3 or 4 race days (practice,2 qualifiers and a main)out of a set....maybe more depending on the surface and how good car is. If you leave them untrued....more race days of course. I usually run pinks and purples on flat asphalt oval, maybe a little softer LR if need be.

Jake, You can also try purple fronts and white rears. I've been running that out here in Colorado with good results.

-Eric

Not jake, its me Dave. How's it going Eric? Are you going back to the snowbirds this year?

Well I have have ran one season on a set of bsr tires that is practice and all the races. So that adds up to 80 dollars for a seasons tire bill. Just my .02

brooks

Brian , Hope to see you there and Bring the Frenchman with you he needs a little oval practice before snowbirds hehehehe ...
MACE my server is slow I guess.. I am sure I have over 1000 posts from all of Hanks Site. I think when I changes computers I lost my password and started over... Big crowd cming to Seaford next week see you then SRM
;)

let me clear something up real quick..just because i race for JACO and they dont have a cap does not mean im sour on cap tires...i guess i didnt clarify the fact that most of asphalt tracks that are on the eastcoast are flat and you cant run caps...as far as the cost goes they are expensive..if you can get a million runs on them thats great and im glad that they work for you and keep your bill down over the long haul...the problem is when a guy who is new to racing or thinking about racing goes to a local track and the car he can buy is $160-$170 and the tires that he needs just to start racing is $80-$90 they might think that is hard to swallow and it might scare them away...this has been an issue between people that like caps and people that dont...i dont really care, i just want to see the best racing and the most racers at any given point.

BRD,

I have to wonder what class do you run? 4 cell stock I would guess.I've had this discussion before and have talked to lots of people about it and all agree,if you race every weekend theres no way one set of radials will last a whole season,a season being basically 6-8 months here.I can get at MOST 2 months on a set usually more like 1- 1 1/2 months.I race at least once every weekend sometimes two or three times.

Brian,

I totally agree with you on the cost issue It scares the bajickas out of me if I think about how much I've spent on tires the past 10 years it is by far the most expensive aspect of racing around here.My mother ask me what I wanted for christmas one year and I said a couple of sets of tires for my rc car, little did she know two sets was go to set her back $120,she hasn't ask me what I wanted for Christmas since LOL.

I race 6 cell with ex-spec motor on a pan car. the season was about 4 months and raced ever other weekend. I see what you are talking about if I raced 8 month, ever weekend they would not of made it. But I still got 10 full race weekends out of them.

brdracing

BRD,
Where do you run? C&W?

That was in Loris SC. But I have ran at Clover, SC and jacksonville FL. But most of the time I run in Stony Point NC

brd

pepe,

where do you race?

brooks

I was wondering if I could have some help with suggestions for a rear wing. It has probably been talked about before, but I cant find the post.

I bought an associated 5" wing today and was wondering is this going to be to big to run? also, should I mount it to the pod or to the rear window?

Thanks
Bryon

BRD,

I run mostly at Carolina Speedway in Easley,but also run a lot at C&W in Ashville,and some at Clover all three are great tracks,Carolina just got repaved this past week ran some today before the rain started it is really smooth now,can't wait to get to race on it.

BMullins- the wing you have should work fine..its not really meant for a pan car but it will work...i would mount the wing on the body but check with the fast guys at the track you run at and they should be able t help you..the wing i run is the Thunder Big One and i always mount it on the body.

pepe,

Some one told me that Carolina was not a smooth track to run on, that is one of the reasons that I have not went down to race. But now that I see that they have got it repaved I will be making a trip down to races. If I make plans to race down at Carolina will you give me the set up for it. I run a HD 510 bt?

brooks

BRD,

Yea! carolina was pretty bumpy but not unbearable like some made it out. The new pavement will be a nice change for sure. Yea give me a holler and I will get you going I run basically the same set up at all three tracks just change tires and adjust tweak a little.I'm experimenting with different bodies right now.I can't wait for the new HD to come out i'm going to turn my 0500 into a test car.

Hey Brian what are your thoughts on an offset pod on a flat concrete track and what do you think it does to the car make it turn more going in or off !!!!! I been running offset for years but every one is telling me to go center !!!!!! SEE YA HACKSAW:devil:

building new car never been on a oval track,run touring car and off road,wanted SPEED so everyone said OVAL OVAL,so here we GO!!!!!!!
anyways reading all the post trying to learn alittle,was reading on setups ,someone mention running .05 rake.What is rake?thanks:thumbsup:

lots of good setup info, in many posts here.....check back thru the pages.. Rake is the angle of the chassis , compared to a flat surface... it depends on the track. Front rake would be running the frontend lower than the rearend, this will give the car more steering. Rear rake is rear is lower than the front, more rear traction.....I would start out with no rake , flat chassis. run it a few times and see what the track needs...

hacksaw running a offset pod give the car more traction. you are putting more weight on the left rear tire. only run off set if you realy cant find any grip. you should be faster without a off set pod.

Hey Brian,

I was thinking about putting spacers on the right front caster block, which would lengthen the upper arm, allowing me to lean the tire in more. Right now I have the turnbuckle bottomed out and would like to try running more camber. When I do this, should I do the left front as well? The class is 4-cell 19turn 1/10 scale on a high banked concrete tri-oval, 410' center line, and we use cap tires.

Thanks,

Tom

TOME57 if all your are looking to do is get more chamber, just trim of file some material away. if you lengthen the upper a-arm you will get more mech grip.

hacksaw- i usually start with a center pod and work as much as possible with that until i cant get it to work right...it really depends on the amount of bite you have on your track...you run an offset pod when you are having problems getting the car off the corner...if that is not an issue with your car then you should run a center pod becuase it will give you more corner speed.

ask- jflack is right..to keep the car more neutral run no rake at all...i always run .5mm of rake with the front lower in all my cars but i like my cars very aggressive as far as steering goes.

TOME- rocketkiller is correct...i run my right front arm longer because it gives more mechanical grip not to get more adjustment...the amount of camber that is allowed in the stock front end should be plenty but if you need more just trim the upper arm and eyelet a little bit...you dont need to do that to left front because its a completely different adjustment that doesnt pertain to the left front.

thanks everybody ,I will keep reading and learning from you guy's:thumbsup:

what do you mean by mech grip? and how are you getting it? shimming upright over?

What will running a longer LF upper arm do to the car? Running the right front longer will will give that tire more mechanical and cause the car to gain more steering during the whole corner, right? I have been told this by other racers, but can you explain the dynamics of how the longer arm will give more mechanical grip? Thanks.

toy-mechanical grip is when you are using the cars geometry to get grip instead of using a softer tire or spring.

JPH- the answer that they have given you is correct but to explain the dynamics of it would be very difficult and would require drawings to have it make more sense...running a longer left arm will give you more camber gain on that tire and that will not help an oval car go thru the corner...you need to be able to keep the tire flatter on the track so you can get more traction.

The part about a longer arm and more camber gain is what I don't understand. I have allways thought that running a shorter upper arm will provide more camber gain because it will be more active. This is what I don't understand.

I just drew up a simple lever with the end of it up aginst a line. I then drew up another lever with the end of it aginst the same line but this levers pivot point was .5 inches longer (just to make it seem more dramatic) In autocad inventor I used the assy. program to simulate the levers rotating around the pivot point. Each lever was moved 20* and then it held. The longer lever did move away from the line the less, by about 1/8". Now I must be missing somthing? I'm not trying to doubt you, I just need to know how it works not that it works, or else it's usless to me. Thanks for the time.

how much longer do you make the arm? and are you doing it by moving the caster block towards the center of the car?

Brian, I'm also confused. "Real" race cars use a long Left arm to reduce camber gain and creat more mechanical grip by keeping more tire surface on the track. I would think it would work the same with our frontends. I mught add though that the upper A arm has to be parralel with the lower.

That is the adjustmant tha you would make, bring it into the center of the front end. I normaly would use the asc or wolfe 1/8" spacers. But different leangths will do different things.

a longer upper a-arm will not increase chamber gain. it does increase mech grip. i like to use a old castor block just cut off the top of it, to just use the part with the countersinks so the castor blocks fit toghther perfect. spacers work fine but let the castor block flex more so you need to run the front end tube. if you do it the other way you don't need to run the tube.

sorry guys just read my post and realized i forgot a couple key words...you are correct that a longer does NOT increase camber gain...one thing that a longer front arm does though is it actually fools the spring and the car thinks it is softer...for instance if you run a green front spring with a stock front end it will compress at one rate but if you lengthen that arm the lever will be longer and the spring will compress faster because the lever is longer...that is a bigger reason to not use a longer a front arm because a stiffer spring on the left front will give you more bite...one thing to remember is not everything that transfers from a real race car will work for us...weird as it may sound...i have tried longer left front arms at certain places and didnt really gain anything so ive never tried it since...that was quite a while ago so you may want to try it and see how it works for you...also good job on calling me out about that previous post...im glad someone is paying attention.

I was reading the posts and not really knowing what you guys are talking about, I have a few questions(Of Course).

Rocketkiller stated that he cuts old caster blocks up to use as spacers(I am guessing here)So if he puts the spacers and the castor block back together, this moves the castor blocks towards the middle of the car, Right??? If he does this does this mean that he has to lengthen the camber adjustment turnbuckle out to achieve proper tire wear? So how does this make the car better??

HElP The young for one day they will be old and wise

Thanks
Bryon

the leverage action makes it easier to compress the right front spring giving that tire more grip.

You will have to compensate by making the arm longer. The benifit it having more leverage on the spring like ToyTowne said and ypu can use it to control the ammount the tire will lean over. On short banked tracks where the cars tend to have less body roll I make that arm longer to make the car more stable on the straight.

i think you are think of what a longer top arm does...there will be no difference in leverage on the spring , no matter what length top arm you run....what longer or shorter top arm does is change the angle of the kingpins travel. Too change leverage you must change the location of the bottom arm.......or make the bottom arm longer or shorter.....all pressure from the spring is applied to the bottom arm, the top arm is just a guide for the kingpins path....

The only thing that can occur with longer or short top arm , is if the angle puts the frontend in a bind from the angle of the kingpin. Then you would need to fix that problem.....


The length on the top arm has to do with contact patch on that tire only....corner or straights.....which effects how the car gets into a corner , how its performs in the middle and how it gets off....so there will never be one location that is perfect for any track....you will have to give up something for something else...

jflack, it took me forever to visualize this but the lower arm doesn't collapse the spring. The bottom of the kingpin goes up with the steering block and the upper a-arm. Even though since the tire patch is the pressure point on the spring, the spindle is the leverage on the spring which is followed down to the tire patch. I don't think lengthening the upper a-arms affects the car at all except for the camber curve, like you said. I will have to think about it some more and maybe do some drawing to make sure. And I'll talk it over with my Dad tomorrow.

Moving the whole RF assembly out does a few different things but the biggest thing is the side bite changes and you have to compensate for the spacing on the RR tire also. Cause just moving the RF out is like moving the RR in, so the changes kind of fight each other.

Our frontend basically a split straight axle type frontend...the main load when cornering is transfer thru the bottom a-arm. as the chassis rolls (side to side and rear to front)the spring is compressed by the lower arm, bumps are absorbed by the spring... the top a-arm controls the movement of the action caused by a bump or chassis roll.....This is why we have a hard time getting the front left tire to work correctly on some tracks. There is no down movement of the suspension past the bottom arm...so some left front traction is lost in the corner....In 4 cell we are putting weight on the left front chassis( usually the transponder)...This will add static weight and push that side of the chassis down , helping keep the corner from raising up, loosing traction......


Think of it this way, The tire is where the weight is being transfer TOO.......the transfer point is the bottom a-arm , the pressure apply is the load on the spring.......the load is the roll of the chassis and its weight.......track surface and bumps are inputs to the suspension.....

I would like to see a spring between the upper and lower a arms that would make the cars more to scale with it's counter parts, wouldn't it???

rck- when we were in akron there was a car there that was completely different than anything ive ever seen...it was similar to waht you were saying and it worked pretty decent..he made the show in mod...its hard to compare our cars to real cars because of the speeds that our cars run...some things transfer but not all.

The weight of our car is so light that it effects the suspension components. A double a-arm frontend generally only works on a few type tracks. The car dosn't transfer enough weight side to side or front to back to get proper suspension movement. Some of this is due to the T-plate type rearend....If the cars were full susension car like a touring car it would be more effective.....all this is why we must run a wing at many tracks....Its also why we have no need for a front swaybar....

Brian,usally when you run battery pack about 40 times your pack is not like new anymore,what about a chassis you get some hard hits here and there,heat,bumps etc.What should a racer look for before changing chassis. DOM.

DOM- im not really understanding your question...i dont know if im reading it wrong...please repost if im not and ill give you my answer.