As most of you know I am looking ot get rid of some of the rif raf before it gets to bad
I think we have the best Site on the boards and I know a lot of you agree. I think part of this has to do with the ppl we haev on here.
We have a great community of racers and hobbist that are always willing to help out each other.
I am asking now for your input on some things to do about bad traders.

1)How many times should a person get reported as a bad trader before they are banned ?
2)Who should be the ultimate one that says they are a bad trader to be banned ?
3)What considers a trade a bad trade I.E. missing parts items not as desriped Items damaged. Of course not getting any product is a clear sign Who is to be the one that says they are or aren't a bad trader becasue of some of the things listed
4)I was thinking about doing a sticky post stating who are deemed bad traders and I being the only one to post as who it is after they have been officially deemed a bad trader. Like we all know the Barth brothers are They would go on the list first.
5) what do you guys think of the list so far

I want your input on the list and advice on stuff to add to the list.

I DONT WANT: I THINK THIS PERSON IS A BAD TRADER TO BE PUT ON THIS THREAD

LMK and Thanks

Yea,,because I bought something off of ebay and I have never gotten the product.. What should I do,,It has been 3 weeks adn he wont reply to any email or anything,,I paid with paypal and he left good feedback,,jsut new to this and trying to find out what to do

If you used paypal dont wait more than 30 days to file a complaint. If you do you SOL with them.

Yea,,because I bought something off of ebay and I have never gotten the product.. What should I do,,It has been 3 weeks adn he wont reply to any email or anything,,I paid with paypal and he left good feedback,,jsut new to this and trying to find out what to do
AN eBay problem like you describe needs to be reported to "eBay safeharbor" if that person refuses to acknowledge emails and requests.
Also you can pul his/her contact info from the "contact seller tabs"
and get a phone number that they listed. if this info proves to be fake, at worst your out the money, but ebay will ban that seller from accessing ebay alltogether under the sellers master screen name on his ISP account. in short he /she would have to create an entire ne account just to access ebay.
the act of contacting safeharbor, 9 times out of 10 brings the bad ebayer back in line super fast...so I think you should be ok.

Using ebay is another way to cover yourself here....tell the seller to adjust his price for ebay costs, and have him list it while your both online as a "buy it now!"
then you have ebay backing you both...just a thought for mow expensie/ costly items, and extra $5.00 would cover you on a lot of suff.
and paypal is right, when you siogn up the conditions state to report problems imeadiately.....after the first week, contact them reguardless how you think the deal will go...if the seller did nothing wrong, he wont get burned...if he gets mad..so be it, it reflects nothing on him.
In short NEVER sit on a problem for more than 7 days after a transaction, for any reason...make the complaint, just take the time to spell out you are not sure if the seller is scamming or just slow, but want to cover your bases in case it is a scam, and appoligize if it is not.
There...simple, cheep take about 5 mins of your life to cover your walllet.....as for the question what to do????
good one, solomen is need I think..LOL!
I would see if perhaps you could enact using the E-verify ebay uses for sellers who have no credit card, to verify their identity to be ABLE TO USE THE SWAP AND SELL.....
It costs only $5.00 one time fee, and you could make the individual have to pay you that prior to being able to access the sales area..do this for selers only...if they dont pay you the $5.00 (you have to pay e verify for that) write in a $50 cloection fee, and turn it over to a collection agencey..and ban that seller from ever using the boards again..period.
this e verify guarentees the sellers ID, and can't be BS'd through,,.....nothing easy to change either...address car loan, bank account info...etc..to verify the ID not easy stuff to change

i think they should be banned from hobbytalk all together we work hard to get rc stuff to just lose our buts all together it sucks i traded 2 tmaxx trucks to people on this site they were shipped the same day one both persons have received there trucks and i have only received my stuff from one person and that was promatchracer he done me right and i would like to say thanks.

Jack

WHAT ABOUT SOME SORT OF POINTS SYSTEM LIKE EBAY HAS.... whoops darn caps... that way when someone is looking for info they can pop in a name and it will bring up there rating. this will also help with the good traders who deal alot... u also have to look at spammers. i have yet to have it happen , but what if somone tries to degrade a good trader out of spite. there needs to be more than one warning. or maybe if u have good feed alreay and such, then the bad one takes points. prolly alot of work to do but an idea....

I would suggest that if every deal had feedback you would get a good idea of who your dealing with, buyers and sellers. I always look them up on deals I make or ask someone on the board if they know them.Every deal I have made here has been good and the guys selling have been good. I`ve backed out of deals that were to good to be true because someone posted a warning about them Like the Famous Brothers Tim andTom! Yes you should have a system of buyers and seller with comments on deals.You guys have done well on this as far as warnings and Good traders ,but every deal would be better.
Just my opion
CORO KID

1) Three strikes should apply here, depending on the level or trading going on. A missing motor spring is small compared to a missing flywheel on a dyno......
2) I believe a moderator should be the one who decides. Those who have delt with the trader should be taken into consideration by the moderator and heard.
3) Like ebay, it should be anything not mentioned in the description. Minor scratches doesnt mean gouges in a chasiss.....i think its a part of the seller to give a good description in order to keep all questions to a minimum, that way there is no second guessing about what you are buying...
Dave
PS: Great job so far

here is an idea...after the first time...replace member with bad trader...then people will see that and hopefully refer to the boards


Adam

or do something like ebay...a feedback counter...or seller rating that you the moderator controles by good or bad feedback...


Adam

I myself have just been taken on E-bay, I filled a complaint with Safe harbour and with Pay-pal. The thing with Pay-pal is the seller has 10 days to fix the problem. If he dosent repond then I get my money back and Pay-pal goes after them. I will post his info on here just in case.

Is there any way to add a trader review in our personal prifile????????????

this feedback section is great and it kind of resembles what ebay has in a way, but its getting people to leave the feedback is whats tough!
some are good at leaving feedback and others dont think twice about doing it!
but one bad thing about the feedback on here that i have mentioned before is peoples screen names and the search engine. when signing up it should be madatory that there names be at least 5 characters long, since the search engine wont pick up anything less then that or longer then 12 i think?

another thing that should be mandatory is getting phone number info before a trade goes down! anyone who is honest about trading wont have a problem with this at all. just swap numbers and call each other real quick to verify names and addresses

now, as for bad traders:
any problem is a big problem to some people, but its a really tough
call determining when a person should be banned.
there can be huge extenuating circumstances that might be going on
that hinders someone from getting back in contact with the other person
( computer problems, modem problems, cable lines down or getting repaired, isp problems, server viruses, phone service disconnected, hospitalization, etc.)

but more then one incident is way to many i think!

as for who has final word on banning, i say moderators gather the evidence and turn it over to the big man himself and let him decide! it is his board after all?

maybe do some kind of mass emailing to all members explaining the trader info area and how to look for traders and post correctly? not as
many members that should be, have been reading the guidelines posted
up top of this forum.

those are my thoughts so far.....

I would like to see a trader feedback forum thats accesible from the persons posts or messages and profile page,like Ebay.No ratings just peoples comments,I think that will help.
Also,common sense plays a big role in online trading.

I think alot of problems in trades is the his word against your word thing,I bought a B4 from another board and the B4 was represented as in like new condition,the car I got was total junk,I had to replace everything(I do not expect a chassis without scratches)shocks,hinge pins,diff,chassis(most of the holes were stripped)I was very upset when I got the car,the person I got the car from quit answering e-mails,PM's,so all I could do is leave bad trader feedback,well after a few weeks that post just falls off,I think the way to do it is like what ebay does,have feedback that is easy to find,also their are a few times when a trade that is listed as bad gets resolved.I used to do quite a few trades but I have been burned to many times(2)and will NOT trade to people I dont know now,It's just sad that their are so many people who scam,My Vote would be based on intent,In a trade if you try to pass your junk off as "like new" you should not be given access to the sell/trade/buy threads until the problem has been taken care of,if the problem is not taken care of you should be booted off, If you just flat rip someone off(as in you got paid but never sent anything)you should get booted off,asked not to return,and their info.should also be sent to the other "big" boards so everyone will know..screw em,their scamers,I would like to thank you for addressing this problem.

i am tired of being lied to when you buy something on here about the working condition of stuff, when they shipped it, or actually trying to get a FULL refund on stuff thats not what they say it is or the product dont work properly. They have no problem taking your money but when its time to give it back, they make up every excuse to avoid givin the full amout (including paypal fees, shipping fees).

A nice trader rating system will fix this problem.

send the cops after them

One thing that bothers me about Ebays rating sys. There is nothing that stops the seller from making the buyer post feedback before they will post for the buyer! This is a huge problem because they want you to post good feedback or they will post bad for you! (NOT GOOD) The buyer is the first to stick his neck out by simply sending the money for the item they are purchasing, they are the one taking the first chance here as they don't know the seller in most cases! So the seller SHOULD have to leave feedback first as they have been paid for the item they were offering! Then the seller is obligated to leave feedback for the item concidering the condition its in. If the feedback is bad from either then there should be action taken.

Example: I purchased an item off Ebay, it was very good but the service contact for the item (24hr. service by email, to learn about the product & what all it does. They are supposed to reply within 24hrs.) never worked for me! I tried several times for 2 wks. & not one reply! So they are one of these sellers that will only leave positive feedback if you do! I left NEUTERAL feedback stating the item was very good A+++ but the email service needed help! They left me NEGITIVE feedback stating that I didn't try to contact them to resolve the problem & I could not follow instructions as per they're email! What Email, I didn't get one, remember?

Its your call, but I believe this is a good idea & would work well if inforced!

Steve

i think when someone gets a bad report on the boards it should be posted onto the bottom of all their replies.. that way people can see that they have negative feedback and wouldnt have to go searching around to find out..kinda like a warning level or something of that nature..no matter where they post on the boards it would be visable on their posts..like where your signature line is at

Some good feedback here... I have looked into having some type of easy to use trader feedback system that is, for the most part, fair to all involved. As we can see just from this discussion, it's not an easy thing to do.

The present forum software does have a "ratings" system available, but the feedback system where people type in their feedback doesn't quite fit our needs (the person leaving the feedback is not shown).

I most likely could get a "customization" or hack created for a feedback system such as what we need but the problem with this is that every time the forum software is upgrade, these customizations would have to be reapplied or even recreated for the new upgrade (forum software upgrades happen more often then you think). For this reason I VERY seldom use a modification that "hack" the original forum software code.

Also, it looks like there will be a "buy and sell" module coming out for our photo album that may really fit our needs. It is still being tested and if they add in a good feedback system and comment area, I think this would be the ideal solution. The beta version look pretty slick but it is still lacking a few features we need.

Last, but not least, is that the HobbyTalk forum software will soon have a MAJOR upgrade. I am presently running some old beta code for that upgrade and have resisted upgrading again before the "gold" version is released. This upgrade will take a few hours to compete and I don't want to upgrade to the latest beta and then have to go through it again when the "gold" release becomes available. This upgrade will be a major change to the layout of HobbyTalk. While changes can be confusing, the new layout does offer some advantages. Because of all of this, I am not in any hurry to make any wholesale changes at this point.

But I agree we need to seriously look into some better trader feedback system and all of your comments are being taken into consideration. Hopefully once we do the forum software upgrade we can move on to address this issue.

RC universe has a box on the side that shows how many good, bad, and nuetral trades a person has completed.

here is another idea...lets out our location on there...not at the track or something like that....

dont forget to check this thread out that i put up
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=78950

it would be great if everyone would start signing up for this!!

Well I saw on the ClodTalk forum,that you can`t view, sell or trade without approval of board,they check your ebay rating and age and then let you on.So if you have a poor rating no selling or buying.That idea protects everybody to a point. I believe in using feedback on deals and being fair on trades.I think sellers should leave feedback first and buyers second so people can be honest about the deal!I have been lucky here with trades good stuff for a good price and no BS!
Just my .02
Coro Kid

Hey guys,
forgive me for playing the devil's advocate here, but if these a-holes taking cash, are busted with that name, can't they just create a new identity and a generic yahoo mailbox?

I agree with you completely I got taken on a deal on this board here a month or two ago and wasn't real happy I tried to get the guy to do something on it and sent several emails he advertised it as a ready to run I get the car the radio antena is ripped out of the receiver the xtals are missing the clutch bell bearings and fastners are missing no servos the pull starts are thrown in a box the extra engine is missing parts all kinds of things he keeps telling me he's found parts and I still haven't received them. I got good feedback on here I've dealt with Northerner and several others and always had great deals. but 1 or 2 bad apples can ruin it for the rest of us and make you really gun shy about dealing or trading with someone.

heres another problem i ran into in the last few months.


I sold some cars and parts to a person, i packed it and had my wife ship it at the local usps. 2 weeks go by and dont hear anything. Then out of the blue i get an emailing from this person asking where is his package. now i know it was shipped because my wife used the debit card so not only do i have it on my bank statement but i also have the receipt from the post office as well with his zip code on it.

after another 2 weeks of wheres my package, ur a thief crap. i finally went to the post office and asked if there any way of checking it and she said no because i didnt use a tracking #.

So my point is The seller isnt always the thief when buying and selling. The buyer can be a lying dirtbag and a thief just as well.

just because the buyer can say he didnt send my stuff, doesnt mean the person selling it is an automatic fraud. and i see alot of it on here without even 2nd guessing the buyer.

Here is my suggestion and I think it will work really good for right no until we have the software to do something else
Everybody has the option to use a signature. You will see mine has my Yahoo e-mail in it right now Later it will have the words trader feedback in it where you will be able to click on it
If you do not have a thread started in the trader section for feedback Start your on thread and use the post for the link
That way all some one has to do is just click on it and they can find out about a person.
The downfall will be that everybody wont do it

What does everybody think

Well these are all good ideas!I have alway's used the get a phone# senerio!This has always worked till this last deal and they say there somebody else when you call!

i think the clodtalk might have a good idea that you cant even view unless you are a member...or "approved"...and i have had really good luck with the phone number thing too...i just had a transaction that is almost complete...there were 2 numbers in the tracking number that the store gave out that was wrong...its nice to hear a voice to listen to...but they could be a ripoff artist...???

Here is my suggestion and I think it will work really good for right no until we have the software to do something else
Everybody has the option to use a signature. You will see mine has my Yahoo e-mail in it right now Later it will have the words trader feedback in it where you will be able to click on it
If you do not have a thread started in the trader section for feedback Start your on thread and use the post for the link
That way all some one has to do is just click on it and they can find out about a person.
The downfall will be that everybody wont do it

What does everybody think
hay casey that sounds like a very good idea

I think the idea of making the swap and sell area password access only will be the easiest to implement and administer. Don't behave you're out.

I've never used this swap and sell, but are lurkers who purchase here but never register a problem?

Phil

You know there is a solution out there, and you don't even have to have the Forum here modified to run it. Register for a HEATWARE account, and you can track buy/sell/trade stuff all in one place.

I use it for the HardOCP and Anandtech forums. EVERYONE there uses Heatware -- it's considered by the members of those forums to be more valuable than EBay feedback. It's not infallible, but works really well.

I've done a couple of trades on here where I've asked a person to leave me Heatware feedback. www.heatware.com (http://www.heatware.com)

Randy Clements
SLC, UT

from the outside looking in,it never hurts to have friends in low places! what i mean by that is i try to keep in touch w/people on my buddylist and so forth,this way if a deal does go bad and i have someone on my list from that part of the states maybe they can look into for me! i dont mind helping someone out to get something back,dont mind giving my # out so people can call and ask for help! no one wants to get screwed,or be screwed,good traders and sellers stick together and help each other out!

They should be banned after one bad trade!! absolutley!!

Promatchracer im not a scammer or a bad trader i done my part on getting the stuff back but i can see if the person dont return the item ...then they should be banned from the forum

i personally see a lot of good ideas here and some bad ones also. i describe everything as it would be received. i had a b4 posted on the boards and noone was interested in it i described it as brand new never ran. i finally took it to a local race track 1 day and had it sitting in the pits and i was asked if it was for sale i said yes the guy picked it up looked at the bottom and asked if it had been run, i said no and he said it shows. i ended up selling it for a whopping loss. to make a long story short i think it would be better if larger size pic files could be placed into the adds, i take a pic with the comp cam only to be told file size too big. i feel that if you see pics of exactly what you are suppose to get then, if it is not received exactly as pictured the moderators could ban the individual on the spot. as it is know i can only send pics in e-mails, and if the items could be posted in the add everyone could see what exactly is being sold. i have not done to many deals (probably because i do not have anything anyone wants LOL however i am honest about what i am selling/trading and i also think communication is key. i also think that if you put more thing here to make it more like ebay you might as well use ebay, i like to deal here because there is no fees charged and it has like a family atmoshpere (even the dysfunctional scammers and con artists)(A.K.A barth bros) there should be a trader feedback forum like ebay but, WE MUST USE IT FOR IT TO WORK. casey personally i think that just a trader feedback area like the one ebay uses will be enough if we will all just use it. however the main problem we have is multiple screen names (case in point barf i mean barth bros) a problem which in my opinion should take priority. ban a screen name what stops them from making a new one? just my.02