I run TM tire they have a wide compoud selection.
www.tm-rc-racingcomponents.com
I run
Pink RF
Magenta LF
G2 RR
G4 LR
they also carry spec tires and they work awsome did some testing for TM ran the spec tires in the pro class and worked great

I have all these in stock
www.fastlanehobby.com

Shane

Try this here instead!!!

http://www.tm-rc-racingcomponents.com/

Sorry Shane.

Skull & Bones

I have a KSG car.....I have tried everything to get it to roll nicely into the corners without "helping" it........get the grip in the middle of the corner and go hammer down out of the corner.....got any suggestions??? I have read every post you have made...and your knowledge of race cars is astounding!!!!!!!

Any help would be greatlt appreciated.....

Kris

thanks for your help davz, Mayhem Racing, vwal........that should get me on my way :) :)

What ever happened to old mysterious S&B?

Scull and Bones is on the road ,,,,NASCAR style with the 30 car ..The 30 car has been ruinning in the top 10 for the last 5-6 weeks ...The same amount of time Scull and Bones has been calling the shots for the 30 car .....The boyz a wizard at RCR .......

ROCKET

Thanks vwal for the correction

Shane

miller or salvas ?
do either of you know where the roll center should be for a flat track. I have excel
program from jeff curtis. looking for detailed numbers

thanks
Tj Towne

Sorry, I don't use such programs ...

I really doubt there's (1) answer to your question. I think you should try a basic setup and start from there. Feel your car's reaction and adjust accordingly.

Steve.

Scull and Bones is on the road ,,,,NASCAR style with the 30 car ..The 30 car has been ruinning in the top 10 for the last 5-6 weeks ...The same amount of time Scull and Bones has been calling the shots for the 30 car .....The boyz a wizard at RCR .......

ROCKET

they also have a real driver now too....

Yes Scull and Bones says the Driver is awesome ,,,,, Look for this car to make a good run the rest of the year .I called him and they were at Darleton Yesterday I was cool hearing the cars go by ......They were a little loose on the long runs but the speed was good .....

Look for Sculll and Bones to be back at RC very soon ....SRM

We will be back to laying whipps as soon as the Nascar season is over , we plan to race at Thunder road the weekend after Thanksgiving and then again Dec.4 for the VA. state champs. Getting ready for the Bird. Whuz up Miller!


Peace , Rhinehart

That's good news Chris! Look forward to seeing you there.

Mclin do you know if Thunder Road is open the weekend before the Va. State Champ. race?

Thanks, Rhino

Rhino, ThunderRoad should be open the weekend before Dec. 4th race. Here is Ernie's e-mail address Thunder_Road_RC@Hotmail.com Give him a e-mail and he can tell you for sure.

Chris, are you running stock or nineteen turn at the $$$ race? Matt and I and hopefully a few misfits will be coming down to collect our prize money.lol


Are you going to be running one of Ozzies cars? Matt and I have one on the way. The big guy has been working hard to get all his vendors in line to start production any day now. Heres a link. Click on whats new and scroll down to look at a conversion kit. www.ripmotorsports.com (http://www.ripmotorsports.com) later Bill

P.S. To all thoughs involved thanks for working so hard to make your track better. I'm sure all your hard work will be rewarded with improved attendance and and and an occational guest appearance by yours truely,,your welcome.lol see ya

Bill,
Are you and Matt going to Sandhills for the Norrca nats.

A bunch of us from Ohio are going down and running stock, should be a blast.

Hope to see you there.

Eric H.

Great,It seems like are are always willing to travel across many states to give us fits. Matt is a go and I'm waiting on approval for time off from work. My wife has been hasseling me a bit though, she said Snowbirds od Sandhills.I said love me or leave me,,,,thats the last thing I remember before I woke up spralled across the floor.lol Fingers crossed though. Bill

Bill,
Jeff and I will be there. I'm not shore what class I will run yet,I guess
what ever the bigger class is. I think I might like to run with you guy's this year and run stock.

See ya there

Peace, Rhino

Great,It seems like are are always willing to travel across many states to give us fits.
Bill,
You crack me up, !!
Hope you get the time off from work....always a fun time running with you guys.
Stock should be a good field this year down there for the Norrca race...
Adam Martin is coming down with us, Lauren Liehr, Andy Stotts,
I know Jody Miller has been running there and is quick. Johnny Medlin (local kid) is always fast....I talked to Postalwait, he is running stock too...should be a good one.

Hey Bill...what are the chances that battery tray will bolt right onto a KSG?? I like the looks of that car. Let me know. Thanks.

vwal
The battery tray will not fit a ksg car right out of the package, but with some minor drilling it will. I appreciate your kind comment about the car. I am really hoping that people like it and are successful with it. Bill Osborn and Myself put countless hours into it.

Eric Beltz
www.sureshotracing.com (http://www.sureshotracing.com/)
www.ripmotorsports.com (http://www.ripmotorsports.com/)

I'm trying to find the address (which I saw somewhere on this computer) for a download to set the car up with the four scales that Skull and Bones put earlier in the thread. I did the set up on paper and now want to check it on a co9mputer program. Thanks

Scull and Bones is on the road ,,,,NASCAR style with the 30 car ..The 30 car has been ruinning in the top 10 for the last 5-6 weeks ...The same amount of time Scull and Bones has been calling the shots for the 30 car .....The boyz a wizard at RCR .......

ROCKET
So, Kevin Hamlin is Scull and Bones?

negative

So, Kevin Hamlin is Scull and Bones? Jeff Curtis.

__________________
Brent Pearcy
Bulit Motorsports (http://www.bulitmotorsports.com/), TQCells (http://www3.sympatico.ca/tqcells/)

On page 5 of this thread (way back in 2003) there was a roll center program that I down loaded but never messed with much. Did anyone else down load it and if so what is the Dynamic LF and RF travel at wheel? What are you measuring?The program had a -.060 and -.150

I believe that is how far you want the program to travel your suspension at that corner of the car. I will have to look at it again, it has been a while since I have done that, but I am thinking that is how much travel at the kingpin you want it to see, I could be wrong though!!!

V Wall, I can see that as being the case but how do you go about coming up with the measurment. Changing it slightly makes a huge difference in rool center so it has to be important enough to warrant it being there.

davepull, I need more info, what does the car do on entry, most problem center off are aggravated by a corner entry condition, and are often caused by over driving a car on entry (not allowing it to rotate getting to center).

I am also asuming that your problem is occurring on power. On power pushes can be fixed with a variety of changes. But lets get the root cause of the problem figured out first and then we can formulate a better answer.

S & B


I LIKE THIS GUY!!:thumbsup:

By studing the problems of other drivers one can better understand and learn from them.

S & B your a GOOD MAN!

That part I am not sure....I guess you could lower the car until it hits the track and then know how far you are traveling!!! I am not sure though to be honest.

you can put an orthodontic (sp?)rubber band on the king pin and run the car to see how much travel you get.... I have had one on my center shock for years.

If the track is smooth that would work fine I am sure...but any bumps with throw off your corner travel and you will think you are getting more travel than you are, I would think. I Wish S&B would come back and let us know how to measure that....

This is going to be hard to explain without a picture but I found the definition of wheel rate in a suspension book.

“The wheel rate of the spring is the effective rate of the suspension spring at the lower ball joint of the A-arm which compresses the spring (on an independent front suspension), The wheel rate is the spring rate corrected by the mechanical advantage, or leverage. This correction factor is the motion ratio of the linkage squared. The motion ration, or leverage ratio, it the pivot point of the spring center distance divided by the total effective length of the A-arm”.

As I said, without a picture this is tough to understand. BUT in our case with a static front end and the spring being in the center of our “ball joint” and not inboard as they are on a real car, both of the above measurements are the same!

In other words, I am still confused as to where Jazzie got his measurements from LOL............but Steve and I are still looking!

What is "really" needed, is for someone to write a book, starting from scratch,
about r/c cars, by NOT using books/theories on real cars as a basis for comparison...
People use these theories as if they are interchangeable..
But in a lot of cases, they aren't.
:rolleyes:

Yeah, we have no ratio since the spring is in the middle of the kingpin like you said. I am pretty sure that they don't know how to get that number either maybe since I would say it is all but impossible to see that or have any way to measure it while racing and be acturate enough to do what is needed with it. Just my opinion though. If anyone knows let us know!!!

Yeah, we have no ratio since the spring is in the middle of the kingpin like you said.

Not that any of this is really important, but there actually is a motion ratio
involved..
You guys are incorrectly using the kingpin/balljoint as a reference.
It should actually be the center of the tire's contact patch..
Let's say for example only, you space your wheel out 1/8".
You have just changed your wheel rate, as the spring is now effectively
softer. even though you did not change your spring physically...

Obviously, if the center of the wheel is centered over the kingpin,
then the assumption is correct. And as this is a desireable condition, in many
instances your calculatioins would be right.
But if the center of the wheel is NOT over the kingpin, your calculations
would be incorrect.

The spring rate is how stiff the spring is.
The wheel rate is how stiff the car 'thinks' the spring is.... :cool:

Correct, I didn't think of moving the tire since I usually keep mine where it is and move the a-arm instead, that way you change one thing at a time!! But that will change that for sure. I am not sure where this wheel rate thing came into this, unless McLin was wanting to know more about that as it doesn't have anything to do with the number in the program. But race car talk is always fun so I won't complain!! Where is S&B these days, who is he working for an such?

But race car talk is always fun so I won't complain!! Where is S&B these days, who is he working for an such?

Yes it is.
But as I mentioned before, I see too much stuff taken from real car theory,
and brought over to r/c stuff, when in reality, they should not be...
So what we see, is a lot of 'techie' stuff, that all sounds real good,
and is in fact correct, but just for the wrong type of vehicle often times. :cool:

Yes it is.
But as I mentioned before, I see too much stuff taken from real car theory,
and brought over to r/c stuff, when in reality, they should not be...
So what we see, is a lot of 'techie' stuff, that all sounds real good,
and is in fact correct, but just for the wrong type of vehicle often times. :cool:

Having raced both R/C and stock cars for quite some time I'm having to disagree with you here.

There are very similar in MOST respects in handling.
Also, R/C racing actually becomes a cross over to the full size cars.
I think thats why its so popular in Nascar.

I didn't want to say it but, I also have been involved with big cars for quite some time and there is a lot that transfers over. Granted with real cars we don't have the luxury of changing tire compounds to help the car out but as far as front end stuff it is all the same. Most of the concepts work fine, if they didn't then why would S&B be on here telling us how to make our toy cars work better using real car methods of thinking? It all crosses over but may be a bit different. I have tried some big car type setups that didn't work on these car but some have worked fine. It all depends, not all of it works but most of it does.

Where this all started is I simply want to know how you derive at the figure to input in the "Dynamic wheel travel!

I get that part...but I didn't see how wheel rate mattered. It seems as though dynamic wheel travel is something no one knows how to measure, to me anyway. There are few ways I can even think of to check it and as you said, a little bit makes a big difference so I don't see how you could ever be accurate enough to be sure. One thing I hadn't noticed with that program is you can't alter the upper arm length, at least that I saw...I don't get why you can play with so many other things but not that length. That measurement is solely based off the camber with that program I believe, would be nice to be able to change it but I will live with it, it is cool to play with!!

Having raced both R/C and stock cars for quite some time I'm having to disagree with you here.

There are very similar in MOST respects in handling.



I never said there were NO similarities..

Look at what you said...
they are 'similar'... in 'most' respects.
That sure leaves a lot of room for things that are not the same...
That's all I ever said.. :rolleyes:

And we wonder why new people aren't flocking to RC oval racing? GEEZ!

Customer in hobby shop: "I'd like to look at that oval car kit please"
LHS:" Do you have a degree in physics?"
Customer: "why, uh, no."
LHS: "THEN NO OVAL CAR FOR YOU!"
LHS:"NEXT......."

Customer in hobby shop: "I'd like to look at that oval car kit please"
LHS:" Do you have a degree in physics?"
Customer: "why, uh, no."
LHS: "THEN NO OVAL CAR FOR YOU!"
LHS:"NEXT......."

LOL... And even then, I get myself lost!!! Got to admit though that my specialty wasn't kinetics and mechanics...

Physics? I just wanna know which spring is stiffer, red or green???!!!??

I didn't say you were wrong, sorry, I meant there is that crosses over than what I got from reading your posts. Guess I came off wrong as well as you. You guys are right that is why more people don't race oval, it is the hardest class to get your stuff really fast. Sure, we go in circles but everything has to be right or you won't go fast!! Yeah, my chemistry isn't helping much with racing....shoulda went with physics!!!!

milky go to the r/c conference on the left side of the page,there is a spring rate chart,initially posted by Marc Fryar,shop foreman at Bill Davis Racing [Nextel #22],and has been updated,will tell you all you need on which spring is stiffer.

Physics? I just wanna know which spring is stiffer, red or green???!!!??

Green most of the time, but you gotta measure them to be absolutely sure. LOL