Its hard to put a dollar amount on things because when you are talking about the top level guys most of them are sponsored and have been racing for years with a lot of accumulated equipment. I would say that for about 1500 dollars you come into the hobby from scratch and have the equipment capable of winning national level events. The hardest thing would be gaining access to the top level battery packs as a beginner. However 90 percent of racers out there have equipment capable of being in the A-main at nationals, it is just a matter of what you do with it and how well you can drive.

I will be at snowbirds.

S & B

looking forward to meeting you jeff...are you or will you be attending the steak dinner wed night? i know greg and rocket will be going.. :thumbsup:

S & B What would be your starting point on a Hyper SSE Pro2 6cell stock on a flat carpet oval with a 88 ft. race line. 52 X 23 with a 2 ft center. Yes 2 short dragstrips and 2 hairpins. :D
Thanks in Advance Here is a pic of the track (http://go.to/wowracing.com)

wowracer that is a small track. The track I race at used to be not much bigger than that. Where is Beech Bluff, TN?

It is basically in Jackson,TN...West ,TN it is a cool little track we run sub 3 second laps..

team h, Beech Bluff is about 15 miles East of Jackson,TN pretty much in the middle of West Tennessee. :thumbsup:

I would probally start off with two JACO white rear tires, and a Jaco Black on the RF and a Gray on the LF. Two blue side springs, a silver center. 30 wt. in the sides, 55 wt. with a number 2 piston in the center. A red RF spring and a green LF spring. Camber at about 2 on both sides (check tire wear). Caster at 1 and 3 (LF/RF). With a protoform HD montecarlo. Give me your feedback from there?

S & B

S&B - I can tell you that what you have recommended will be pretty close(I'll be trying it as well), but it is very similiar to what most are running at the track now(big surprise). Also, if you ever get the chance to come by WOW raceway, drop by and race, we would love to have you. Also, thanks for posting such in depth theories on chassis dynamics, it has been very enlightening, as well as helpful.

Wowracer1 - posting in a pretty public forum, I don't think the cat is still in the bag, as I know some watchful eyes frequent this forum :dude:

S&B what does moving the center shock mount forward and back other than adjust for differant length springs and possible drupe?

It seems as if most of the flat track set-ups you see are pretty close to one another. It seems that the tigher the track, the softer the side springs you want to run. The most important thing is that the car is comfortable to drive and can handle the tightest shortest line possible on the track.

break7edc, I haven't really thought about this one too much in theory, I'll try to think about it some more and give a better answer than what I can give right now.

S & B

THANKS SKULL&BONES new question on 4 scale set up, just starting with a 4 scale system and i read what you said on the topic of wedge changing after a run. do you or would you use the wedge or cross % to help fine tune ?. i hope i explaind this right, and also how do you really take advantage of the scales as a tool and or teaching set up a aid? thanks for letting us pick you brain. TEAM HYPERDRIVE,BSR

I have used JACO white rear tires and greys (Whites both sides then greys on both either worked well.), and a Jaco Black on the RF and a Gray on the LF. Driver side asc. green spring, and silver on the pass. side, a silver center, 30 wt. in the sides, 30 wt. with a number 2 piston in the center. A red RF spring and a green LF spring. Camber at about 2 on both sides. Caster at 1 and 3 (LF/RF). We run a Nastruck class and I use a HPI 7401 Silverado body with full spoiler.
I will let you know the outcome. What effect should using 55wt. in the center shock make? (Currently 30wt in the center)
Thanks in Advance :thumbsup:

Side shock angle- the flatter the shock the more linear the compression? And if I raise the the center or lower the outside (steeper angle) does it make a progressive compression? The same would hold true for center too (right?)

Also front end placement short wheelbase I would assume, but side to side how would you start and why?

S&B: what does moving the LF in do?

Thanks

the left front is allabout the exit of the corner if ou move it in it tightens the car and moving it out loosens the car.....

Watch the bump steer on the LF ......KSG sells a piece that gets rid of the bump ster its called a toe corrector.......SRM :thumbsup:

the left front is allabout the exit of the corner if ou move it in it tightens the car and moving it out loosens the car.....

Watch the bump steer on the LF ......KSG sells a piece that gets rid of the bump ster its called a toe corrector.......SRM :thumbsup:

Will the Ksg piece fit any car? And who has it?

yup, it fits on the steering arm... associated, or wolfe

Not sure of the price but it need to be in every oval guys pit box.....SRM :thumbsup:

Murdock has them. They are:
$17.00 Part #2020B Left Toe Corrector

Wouldn't you want toe-gain in the corner, so it would zero back in on the straights? Unless of course it toes the wrong way...

Not really. It makes the car slow too much in the center of the corner.

Does anybody have a picture of it?

there are now pics of it on the KSG thread

In the KSG Extreme CS thread there are some pictures of it. After I posted I saw Danny posted about it too!!!! Like usual, Danny was ahead of me.

MobileMikeV , I think SRM got it more or less right.

break7edc, Scales are obviously an important means to keep up with the weight distribution in the car, which is a vital part of the set-up of your car. I would say that you should always scale out your car before it hits the track as to keep up with what the wedge number of your car is. If you are not changing the Left to Right or Fore and Aft weight distribution of your car, you can keep up with the wedge by simply keeping up with the left rear’s weight as an indication of your wedge. If you are moving the weight (batteries, lead, etc.) around in your car, keeping up with wedge becomes a more involved process. To finish I'll give you the simple formulas for calculating rear weight percentage, Left Side weight percentage and cross weight percentage.

R.W.=LR+RR/(LF+RF+LR+RR)*100
L.S.=LF+LR/(LF+RF+LR+RR)*100
C.W.=LR+RF/(LF+RF+LR+RR)*100

S & B

Thanks S&b Talk To You Later.

Battery placement? I have been told that moving the battery to the rear will allow the car to turn better because there would be more weight to transfer to the RF. I found that by moving the battery back it actually tightened the car on entry and exit. I didn't notice a really big change in the L4 car handling but it wasn't turning as well. But the Hyperdrive car really tightened up it was pushing in and not rotating on exit.(the battery can be moved within 3/4 in from the LR tire on the Hyperdrive car.

Battery placement? I have been told that moving the battery to the rear will allow the car to turn better because there would be more weight to transfer to the RF. I found that by moving the battery back it actually tightened the car on entry and exit. I didn't notice a really big change in the L4 car handling but it wasn't turning as well. But the Hyperdrive car really tightened up it was pushing in and not rotating on exit.(the battery can be moved within 3/4 in from the LR tire on the Hyperdrive car.

Interesting,I came to the same conclusion.

I think it depends on if you actually let off the throttle...If you can keep full throttle then you never get that potential weight to transfer..
TJ

With the majority of the weight you are moving being on the left side. You have to make sure you are looking at your weight distribution changes with the above formulas. With a simple change of moving the packs back, it is probally neccessary to take cross weight out of the car with it.

S & B

guys i think that toytowne-S&B basicly said it, moving batt back will loosen the car when the weight transfers. you possibly are tighter on exell-and straights were the weight is not tansfered to the right front. if thats the case,the reason you moved your batt possibly make a differant adjustment that doesnt involve the heaviest weight on the car. being moved to a unbalanced position. PLEASE CORRECT MY INFO SKULL&BONES IF I AM OFF BASE!!!!!

So let me see if I got this right! If you are running on a track that you never have to lift and you car is tight you can move your batteries forward to help that problem?

Brooks

BRD the only thing i can tell about that is there is still wgt transfer going into the corner no matter how little you lift, as far as being tight, whats tight? is your right front rolling over bad? is the left rear coming off the track? is it barrel rolling? if so i would problably 1st check with somone with the same car that is going good and see if my battery is already in the wrong place. also make sure spring rates are proper, tires? i generaly try to loosen the car first by wedge or 1 tire change providing the batt is correct. theres plenty of post on all cars to know were the fast guys are runningthere batterys. EVERYBODY DOES STUFF DIFFERANT IM SURE SOMEONE FAST CAN GIVE SUGGESTIONS TEAMHYPERDRIVE/BSR

Well I was just wondering about that! it is not that my car is tight I was just wondering if that was true!

OK here is another one skull and bones..... i have heard many takes on this, but i was wondering what your's is....What effect does moving the center shock more twoards the front of the car do.....like some cars have 3-8 holes in the center , so u can move the center shock mount up... while doing this u also have to make the shock longer... so i guess my questoion is .... what is achieved by using these forward holes, and a longer shock.... thanks



MIKE BURBEY

KGB FACTORY DRIVER,
TM TIRES TEAM DRIVER,
INTEGY TEAM DRIVER,
BRC TEAM DRIVER,
HEFTY CELLS, (get some)

moving the shock forward on the chassis would put more weight on the front end , wouldn't it?

This thread has completely fallen apart. I think we need to let it die. It is ending up being what I didn't want it to be. I say this for a few reasons.

1. Not that I mind hearing several people's opinions, we should do it on another thread.

2. The disscussion has become loose and ineffective.

3. The questions have become too specific and are better suited to be answered by a guy like E. Anderson, who has more weekly practical racing knowledge than me.

4. Many people have began to spout off completely wrong vehicle dynamics theory, which takes thread away from its original purpose.

5. Most of the disscussion would be better based on a practical handling thread, not a theory based thread.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way. There is nothing wrong with the disscussion, but I think we need a new thread.

Peasce out,

S & B

i have started a basic car handling thread in the gen. Oval discussion be sure to check it out i think we can start over there. :wave:

sorry if i pissed anybody off , i will only ask questions to you skull and bones, which is what i originaly wanted to do but got caught up on my end answering a direct question. hopfully you do start a new thread, again sorry!!!!

break7edc, no don't feel bad. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation. I just felt like I wasn't really giving effective answers anymore.

S & B

ok i have a question, racing a ksg and i have alittle problem. When going thru the turns it seems ok but when coming out and accelerating the car wants to go to the left. also will do it on a straight away, even with the trim set so the car will go to the right under light accel as soon as you accell moderate to heavy it pulls to the left. any ideas

I have one also. in the middle or coming out of the corner If I just touch the pipe the car throws itself to the opposite wall. the car is fast I still got second place. I just started useing the 510 hyperdrive shorty for open spec class with the six cell pack all the way in the back. should I move the pack forward or inward ?

loss of traction usually make the car pull one way or the other.. or a siezed bearing.. when we first start runing for the day on our track, the cars all pull tot he left out of the turns... i mean bad.. the more traction thay builds up. or groove.. the better they get.. try softer tires on the rear...

as for the hitting the pipe. the natural thing for anything to do when it strikes something else is to bounce off..

If i may skull.... beach: try adjusting the RF CAMBER. Generally a car with too much RF camber will want to pull to the inside. Straighten it up just for testing purposes and you will see the difference. In some extreme cases different rear tire compounds will cause the problem under heavy acceleration, also a diff that is too tight or too loose can do that with big horsepower in the car. Tweak will also have an effect but to a lesser degree.Check your rear bottom plate in relation to the back edge of the chassis. If its crooked even a little bit it will make the car not want to track straight.

ok i have a question, racing a ksg and i have alittle problem. When going thru the turns it seems ok but when coming out and accelerating the car wants to go to the left. also will do it on a straight away, even with the trim set so the car will go to the right under light accel as soon as you accell moderate to heavy it pulls to the left. any ideas
Try...

Moving out the LR wheel.
More preload on the LF spring.

Steve.

Ok, I know I should know the answer to this but for some reason I do not. I was reading somewhere that the more castor there is in the front end the more speed that is lost do to scrubbing. What is the reason behind this or is it just something I misread?

Got me a new RC10L40 oval car to have something to do in the winter.......I am having trouble finding out which wheels and tires I should start out running. The place I intend to run at has a green or blue compound rule for foam. I have heard good comments on Parma, could someone help me out with some part numbers please, if not for Parma then maybe other brands........thanks guys!!!!

Jamie check out page 2, post 26.

Got me a new RC10L40 oval car to have something to do in the winter.......I am having trouble finding out which wheels and tires I should start out running. The place I intend to run at has a green or blue compound rule for foam. I have heard good comments on Parma, could someone help me out with some part numbers please, if not for Parma then maybe other brands........thanks guys!!!!John's BSR Tires. They have a spec foam that sounds like it'll fit the bill nicely. They have tires for trucks, buggies, touring cars, and pan cars. You can't buy a better product or customer support than with BSR.
http://www.bsr-racing.com/
Theres a link on there to contact them, and a Phone #