Road dog has a good point.
I am an average racer at best.I have fun just the same.When I make it to the "A" main it's a great thrill(or luck or only 5 cars).If I don't have the goal of running with the "BIG DOGS" it seems to take some of the challenge away.
So I tend to find my challenges in other ways,One week I'll run sprint car with my "BUDDIES",or try truck for a while and I can jump on any new class that crops up,build a new car run it for a while,go to some other class.
I don't try to kill it every week,just have fun.Allot of that fun is watching Mike and Ray drive,it is wild!They are both very smooth and deadly competitive and if I was in that race I wouldn't be able to watch and learn.
Still,by my point of view,the spec classes would be welcome,a chance to build and dial in a new or different car and set up.But I hope the fast guys still race the normal classes,I would be a little dissapointed not watching Ray come back from a lap down after Mike puts him in the pipe on the first turn.
Just my thoughts,I'm open to anything.

why do i have to be the one to put him in the pipe LOL HAHAHA

ok look at it this way if the 4 fastest guys run reg stock or 19 what going to happen is the next 4 fastest guys win every week ,,,,,its just more of the same,,,,, you wana cutt cost or you wana have every one have the same chance to win every week,,,,,,,speck is not going to solve anything thing the way i look at it.....the brake out class is the only way that every one has the same chance to win every week,,

True Mike you have a point. Motor is only so much. Maybe good for a 1/4 to a 1/2 lap. Battery another half lap and that is if you don't wreck.
Guranteed If Mike took anyone's 3300 battery and Monster motor in the building, he would probably stay close to the same laps if any maybe drop 1 lap at the most.

So essentially the same guys that were fast in 19T or stock will still be up front in spec because if their setup was fast in those other classes they will fast in any class.

It's nice racing at Classic because we have enough racers to adequately fill all the classes and have a natural progression.

Beginner stock (35-45 laps) is for the newbies

Busch stock - (45-50 laps) is for the guys whose driving has progressed passed a beginner level, and want to hone their skills before moving to Masters stock. Great learning class because the racing is real close. Or I have seen people run this class simply cause it's good clean racing and they do not have to spend a ton of money.

Masters Stock (51-54 laps) For the advanced racer preparing for 19T and Mod or for National events.

19T and Mod class - For the advanced racers, National champs, Veterans of the hobby.

I know not every track has 60+ pan cars a night like they do. So I am not sure what direction you guys want to go. But one thing is definately have all the weekly racers, just not a couple guys, collectively make a decision so you dont alienate anyone. And definately have the track owner in on the decision making process. That way he knows what to expect and what to stock accordingly.
The last thing you want to do is say lets start this class, say spec, and then the locals show up to run regular stock then you have a dilema. Or even worse yet spreading the classes so thin that there is only 4 guys running each class. That's no fun.

Man that was a lot of rambling, LOL

Erock,
1) Is Classic going to run the ARCOR spec class instead of or in addition to Busch? Just wondering since Classic is an ARCOR track now and since the classes are pretty close in their intention of being a "transition" class.
2) Can you change home tracks with ARCOR. Reason I'm asking is I'm considering running the ARCOR race at Classic next week and if John joins ARCOR later and this spec class happens, I will run it and will want to switch home tracks. But if Classic run spec class...Decisions Decisions.

well the day of racing went pritty good with the new car could have ran 62 in the main but there was some hold ups LOL,,,,,,,,well anyway there will be hand full of us running arcor 19 turn next week should be fun

PGoogs,
No decision has been made yet for Classic. The Busch class as they run now is basically what the ARCOR stock class is.

The most notable differences are:

Busch
Any 3000mah matched pack
Back of the body left in
Spec tires (Green rear, Blue Front)

Arcor stock
Only Arcor 3000mah matched pack allowed no lables
Back of the body can be cut out
Any tires ran

I plan to discuss with Walt that it makes sense for Classic to switch to the Arcor stock instead of Busch for a couple of reasons.
1. It is very hard to find matched 3000mah packs. Running the Arcor 3000mah pack solves that problem.
2. You can run the same motor so, if you are running ARCOR stock with a Monster then decide to move up, you don't need to buy another moter to run Masters' stock.
3. The Arcor open being held at Classic this April. That way if guys are running Arcor stock already there will be a class for them to participate in at the Open.

Oh and as far as home track is concerned. If you come to the state race, just call Classic your home track for now, then if River Jct joins you can switch and have that as your home track. But as I said above only points count at your home track not at both.

Yesterday was OK - some improvement. Thanks to Mike O'Brien for helping me with my sled. We made a few tire changes to loosen the thing up. I would have turned 60 in the A-Main, but ran into the same "hold-ups" that Mike did. Mike checked my time sheet and I'm starting to get some consistent sub 4's, so we're going in the right direction. Again, thanks to Mike for taking the time to help me with the car.

It was a decent day, but again the turnout was low. Nine 4 cell stock and five 12th scale. Three heats total. Where is everyone? I guess the nice weather is still keeping people busy with "other" things.

Kevin

Kevin, glad to see the improvement.
Wish I could have made it out. Just trying to get ready for the state race next week.
Not sure when I will make it out again to Beaver, hopefully soon.

I'll be there next week,remember to bring those sprint cars!
Lets see a show of hands,who is coming and what classes they would like to run.

So everyone knows, I just talked with the lady in charge of the event on the 27th at BeaverRun, and the R/C part is ***CANCELLED******
Apparently, they have committed the skid pad area for vendors, stage, and cars, and cannot give us the space that we will need. Also, the electric power would be a problem too. So, tell your friends that the R/C at BEAVERRUN is not running, and we'll be racing here on the 27th for roadcourse. thanks, John @ RJ :wave:

John
Did you get the ARCOR package from me yet?
Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks
Eric

Yes, Eric I/we did, and we're looking into it, but probably will go with it. I DO WISH, though, that ARCOR would allow racers to get their points anywhere they race. This would allow them to get the points if they are out-of-town, visiting a track within driving distance, or just plain HATE the place they race at currently, and want to change to another facility. just thinking out loud. John@ RJ :wave:
P.S. Good Luck officiating this coming weekend, and hope to see you the next one here. John :)

Yeah I agree with you on the points. It would be nice to be able to travel and get points. But I kind of see why ARCOR made the rule the way they did that way racers stay home and support their local track.

So you guys know, I called KC Motors, and have 4 ARCOR-legal 19T on the way. If there is interest for this Sunday, we will have them available. Maybe, if everyone wants to discuss it, we should start to "nail down" any/ all aspects of this newly-emerging class. Personally, I like having a motor that is faster than stock, but I think that the best races to watch/ be in are those that have EVERYONE about 1 ft. apart at the finish( and during the race). Just an idea...... Thanks for reading this, John @ RJ :wave:

Im running 19T. :P

Just a quick note: The KC motors have arrived, and we have a LARGE amount of 3300 batteries - all ready for the "new" 19T class to start up! Besides "dog", who else is ready for some more SPEED???? John @ RJ :wave:

Sorry, I won't be there this week. Maybe next.

Kevin

19 turn class went pritty well first run i ran a 64.400 sec run 65.400 and the main i probley had a 67 lap car but i had a body clip problem i lost 3 of 4 one clip is just not enuff lol KEVEN this in the class for you fast and fun lap times where around 3.5 to 3.7 in the main i run about 6 3.4s
and a lot of 3.5s ,,,once we get the roll out right and the car hooked up probley see 68 laps or so

oh by the way all the people that ran 19 turn all ran KC motors except one person all the motors past over my dyno at one point and getting a good motor is not a problem



KC motors ROCK!!!!!!! BIG MO

Mike,How did you loose those body clips?LOL :tongue:

trying to avoid roaddogs bumper laying on the front stright AGAIN!!!!!!
HAHAHA i think wayne bent them so thay would fall out

Hey Mike, what about people sticking their hands into traffic, trying to get racing souvenirs.....LOL
Personally, I think that this class(19 T) will DEFINATELY develop into a "premier" class soon- they just need some time for setup, and to get a few more in the class. Then, this class wil be a race to watch!!! John @ RJ :wave:

ya i think i lost a clip on that allso ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the silver bullet will be back in action this week 68 laps on the way

Mike,
Can I get set up for 19t or do you still want the racers to qualify?
My car is always dialed(thanks to you and others)I'm just lacking speed,I'm sure I could run in the class without getting in the way,I'm not upset it's just that I would like to keep my options open.
By the the way,Jon and I are working on the speed issue.$$$$$$
You know I'm not a hack,I thought that may be enough.

What are the qualifications to be in the 19T class? Has anyone given furthur thought to a "spec" class? John, did you join ARCOR yet? I joined at Classic for the State Race but already asked ARCOR about switching tracks and they said just to let them know. Rick and I will probably be down to race a week from next Sunday. What classes are running now?

OK, now it's time for me to say a few things:
First, the 19T class was/is created to get the "top" guys out of stock and to have something MORE for them to shoot for. Yes, I feel that the 19T class should be open to all, but I also think that these guys deserve the higher-quality race(top 5 cars 1-2 seconds apart SAME LAP) that they have worked for. So, why? not have a 19T INVITATIONAL Class for ONLY those who have turned xx amount of laps PREVIOUSLY(may or may not have timing advanced, weight limit etc.); and a 19T class that follows the ARCOR rules more closely, for those who would like to participate in the ARCOR points series' . We have been SERIOUSLY considering signing-up with ARCOR to be a sanctioned track, and will make the decision shortly. This would also allow visitors to come and race in the 19T class with the SAME components that they race at their home track with (and be equal).
I think my biggest concern, is that we don't have everyone running off into another class, just because "it's what so & so is doing". If racers want to have another class started, it's as simple as having 3-4 cars min. on a REGULAR BASIS to run- That's IT!!! We welcome other classes to be started, and encourage racers to "find their niche" in racing. But, by the same token, as a race director, I want to see a "B" or "C" main in some of the other mainstream classes. This allows for the natural strata of abilities to occur, while making for some AWESOME B,C, or D-Main races!
Now, I'll be getting down from my soapbox, so PLEEZE continue this below. John @ The Raceway :wave:

well i think maybe we should have a 19 turn sub class if you make the top 5 or 6 to be in the A more power to you i dont wana run any one off or stop the outsiders from comming to run 19 turn

One thing you have to consider to, and I am just being realistic, is just putting a 19T motor in your car versus a stock is not magically make your car handle. If you are 2-3 laps off in stock you will still be 2-3 laps off in 19T or mod unless you work on the chassis and overall race program. Rebuilding the shocks once every 2 months is not going to get the job done. (hint, hint, Wayne) LOL

For instance last year at my local track I set the stock record. Then I moved up and tried running 19T, 0 dergree and was 2 laps off the leaders pace. So there is definately work to be done. Just simply strapping in the bigger motor is not going to get you laps.

Since the 19T class was supposed to be designed to get the sponsored/fast guys out of stock, I think your best bet is to set a lap rule in stock. Say run 60 or 61 laps to be eligible for 19T 0 degree. That way people know they car and setup has what it takes to run 19T.

Like I said I am not trying to slam I am just trying to be realistic. You just have to watch because there is a fine line and you do not want to turn people away.

Dont believe eveything mike tells you, my shocks work fine :P

ha ha
I will learn not to trust the big guy, LOL

WOW! This is getting WAY too complicated. All I want to do is come to the track, be somewhat competitive and have fun for a couple of hours.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear to me. Since I have never made a 60 lap run, I don't qualify for the "elite" class. I guess I'll kick butt with my 59's in the beginner's class.

Once I learn how to set up a chassis, look out! I'll be fast then.

WAY too many rules for me to think about. If this is the way we're headed, count me out.

Kevin

YOU CAN REBUILD SHOCKS!!??
Seriously,I understand, and am fine with that,I just wanted everyone to know because I was not sure.
I think it's a great way to do it,the only problem I can see is cherry pickers staying in or coming down to run stock against folks that are trying to better themselves.
Will a racer have to leave stock if they run to well?Should they?
Do you think that we will be able to tell someone that?
Do you think that racers should be observed,and if they "qualify" be discussed amongst the 19T class,wether they can run?
It may be tough.
Perhaps if you only allow ARCOR racers in that class,it may be a little more defining.
Just my thoughts.Most people should understand that having that class as a premier class will benifit racing over all,but you know there is always someone........
P.S.-Mike is not a hack.

Hey Kevin
I see your point.
I said all along that it's your guy's track. I dont race there on a weekly basis so leave me out of the decision making process. Some people asked a while back for some class options and I suggested the ARCOR classes.

As far as me making the minimum lap requirement comments. I just suggested that because at Classic we have that rule in our Busch class. If you ran 50 laps or above it was required for you to move into regular stock. 2 years ago that rule worked very well. Everyone strived for 50 which was the ticket to move on. We had about 5-6 guys achieve it and move on. Last year on the other hand, guys were running 45-46 laps and were competitive in Busch and they decided on their own to move into the regular stock class. Only problem with that is we were turning 53-54 laps. Big difference. Actually too much difference when you begin to lap guys after about 5 laps.

Since I have been racing pan cars running Busch that one season has been the most satisfying. We had a different winner every week almost and were all running within 1-2 laps of each other. I think that is what everyone wants.

Hey Kevin, are you getting OLDER? I recall YOU getting 60 the last time. And, besides that, this is why we are discussing the topic here, instead of me making an idiot of myself dictating class specs to 3 people racing.

Anyway, I see what my post has brought forward, and I want to make clear AGAIN, that the 19T idea is NOT to exclude people, but to encourage people, who were dis-couraged from the same 4 or 5 people winning at 4 cell Nascar, to run in 4 cell Nascar and "try" to make the A-MAIN. By shaving-off the top guys (and giving them something that they can strive for), this allows those who are B-Mainers to get into the A, and refine their skills, so that they too, can transition to the next level. Isn't that what everybody does already? Set goals for yourself, work to try to achieve them, then set new goals, etc??? Just some loud thinking........... John @ RJ :wave:

John is right.
If everyone jumped into 19T we would still have the same people in the A main and the same people in the B,and C main.
It's just like mod sedan on saturday,usually the faster guys will run it and the rest move up a main,there is always going to be someone faster,I just want to have fun.
And I always do.
If you don't have a sprint car,you can't run sprint car.
If you don't have a truck,you can't run truck.
If you don't have a pan car you can't run pan car.etc...
If you don't have competition,you can't race yourself.
The class was killer fast and allot of fun to watch,I will run it eventually,but I doubt that I will win the "A"main,my learning curve is very different than most of the faster guys,they will be and should be always faster,I've accepted that,and I don't have a problem with it,sure there are times I get frustrated but those same "faster guys" are always there to help,Panman being one of them.
I do have goals,allot of them have been reached with the assistance of people much more talented,and dedicated than me,I wouldn't like to see anyone stop racing for any reason.
Like John said,he can and will run any class we come up with,and I will be there to run it and have fun with it.
This seems to be a bigger deal than it really is,so we can just show up and race and eat pizza.
See you on Sunday.

all i want to to is race race race i dont care what class it may be. i spend a lot of time on my cars,motors exc exc. i just dont think its right for me to spend 15 hrs + a week working on my stuff to come up on somone that looks likes this I :roll: I on the stright away LOL that wants to race with you every lap and is 8 laps off the pace.thats why i went to 19 turn to get away from some of that,,, and all i hear is mike got this mike got that ,,, im not out to piss people off all i wana do is have fun and race

keven /panman you have Private Messages

hey Where's my private message?, I feel all left out LOL

Heck he probably PM someone else...hes a computer nOOb.

Mike - You have a private message back at you.

Kevin

Hey why doesn't anybody PM meeeeee????

dont make me open this

Everyone - Go to the Oval main page and read the thread "ARCOR 19T Updates". Some interesting discussions going on in there. I know this wouldn't hit our level, but do we really want to start a class that has all this "crap" going on? Drilling armatures? Illegal weights? Tear downs after A-Main wins? Egads! This is supposed to be a hobby!

I only mention it because A) - We're talking about moving to the 19 turn class and B) - John's talking about becoming an ARCOR santioned track. These rules would then affect us.

I know it seems like all I do is complain, but I want a fun, fair, competitive class. 4 cell stock ain't it and it looks like 19 turn is being legislated to death.

Let's get back to that Spec class. $28 motors and two batteries for under $40. I just don't know how many would be interested.

John - perhaps now is the time for you to develop a brief survey form for racers. Let's see what the majority wants to do.

Ok ........... I'll shut up now.

Kevin

Kevin,
Since the 19T class seems to be heading to an "invitational" class, on behalf of the "Late Model Racers Association" I would like to invite to run the "fun" class!
Rick Lohr

Rick, I (we) are trying to find a good solution to the standard problem of most R/C facilities- finding a place for the top guys to compete, and STILL GIVE others a chance at their own A-Main victories. If I/We had envisioned that this would be heading this direction, I NEVER would have invited the discussion of the topic. But, since my VERY EXISTENCE is for the racers, I felt that we could DEMOCRATICALLY come up with a solution for all to benefit. Unfortunately, any decision affects (mostly) those who come here on a regular basis and should be considered by them when choosing the path that eventually ALL MUST FOLLOW. Really, this is all about **fun** and everyone having about the same level of it. I just want that to happen, nothing more, and certainly nothing less. John @ RJ :confused:

nevermind ill just shut up

Well, after today's 19T class running, I feel EVEN MORE STRONGLY, that it should be reserved for those who need to "go to the next level", and only them. The best thing that can happen in this respect(if we are going to still run this class) is for someone (ME: the track director) to officially allow/disallow people for the class. Unfortunately, the best way to solve this is for me to be the "bad guy" in this situation. I care WAAAAAAY TOO MUCH about the quality of the race to let a few people who feel "discriminated against" to dictate what happens in a MOD-type class. So, if you are interested in running the 19T class, please contact/see me for entry. John @ River Junction Raceway. :devil:

i say we run 36 deg open 19 let em fly

Hey that's a good idea- how about a FLAT figure 8 as well. If nothing else, it will teach brake control, and the force drivers to look ahead. Oh wait, roadcourse does that already...... :jest:

I'm up for the figure 8, we used to do that with the Legends cars. The last one remaining won. LOL

Mike, lets just run 5 Turns next time. I got some 450 runtimes, LOL I can make 4 min