A Big THANK YOU goes out to all that attended yesterday for Oval :thumbsup: . With the new program AND the AMB R/C system, I was more than a little nervous about the outcome. Fortunately, it performed well, and the only real glitch(except for mispronouncing Gebhart) was in the printer driver software, which was solved by the Mains.
Over Labor Day weekend we will be closed for carpet cleaning & sprucing-up, then the FULL RACE season starts on Sept. 6th with Roadcourse, and Sept. 7 for OVAL. Hope everyone can make it! John @ RJ :wave:

Good show John, new software and all.
C-ya soon.

John - Nice job with the new lap counting stuff. The software is "interesting", .... to say the least.

The track had good grip and the air conditioning was appreciated. I turned my "usual" 58 laps. Let's see, ..... I've tried new batteries, a new chassis, a new ESC, different tires, four different motors, different front springs, different tweak, a different radio, a different charging technique and I get ........... 58 LAPS! I could add a 5th cell and I'd turn .......... 58 LAPS! The car is just plain FLAT!

Erock1331 - Nice run. You and Mike were flying! I enjoyed meeting you and racing with you.

Folks from Jamestown, NY - You did extremely well! Nice driving and good competition! Thanks for visiting "our" local hobby shop. I know John helped make you feel right at home. You folks mentioned that you might try to make it once a month or so. Sounds great! We look forward to your return.

Thanks to all for the fun. I'm looking forward to larger crowds and more competition (as long as everyone agrees to only turn 58 laps).

PanMan - Kevin Minster

Thanks Kevin

I had a good time, finally had the car settled down in the main. Still not where I want it to be but I managed to drive it, LOL

Hope to see the NY guys back. Good luck to Jeff Patch who is about to become a daddy in the next month or so. Looks like you will be building another Hyperdrive soon !!!

Kevin
Your car looked really planted, maybe take Mike's advice and make the car real loose then back it off slowly to where you can drive it but isn't too planted. I know mine is on the edge every turn but its fast that way.

I'll take a look at your Quantum too, never know it could be in the settings.

That is all I can think of, cause the car looks dialed, and Mike said you have good numbers on the batts and motors. We'll get you there.

Oh one more thing. And I know it sounds crazy but check your radio settings. I accidentally lowered my throttle control limiter on my radio down at the Nats and battled with setup, motors, rollouts etc to get up to speed for 2 days. Here the the speedo was only getting 75% max throttle. If it wasn't for Frank P. looking at my radio I would have never found it and probably still be off the pace.
So it could be something easy as that. Maybe have someone who has the same radio compare their settings to yours.

Erock - Thanks for the concern. I appreciate your thoughts. We'll hook up next time we meet and I'll show you all of my settings. That's why I even tried a different radio yesterday - I thought it might be the radio settings. I used an old AM with no real settings to worry about. I reset the Quantum that morning. The car still lacks punch. Perhaps it is too tight - something to think about.

I do appreciate you and Mike trying to make me faster. We'll have something to work on next time.

Again, thanks for your advice!

PanMan

Panman, thanks for your help with the software. Now, my help- don't sell yourself too short. YOU still turned about the same as you always do- true, but Mike, Eric, Tom, etc. turned LESS than they normally do. So, who really WAS slower?? Hmmm. Just as long as you & they stay where you are right now, YOU have a better chance of going faster than they.......... Just a thought. Anyway, thanks for your help, and let's hope the "new" season is gonna be the BEST ever!John. :wave:

Everyone,thanks for a really great time. Great track & great people. We really enjoyed it and will definitely be back. I just wish I could have run better(first time out with new car-how's that for an excuse). Eric, Mike, good to see you again and hope to see you at Classic on the 13th. Once again, thanks to everyone, and John you run a class operation. Bob Patch

Jeff & Bob thank you sooo much for making the long trip South. I'm glad that you had a good time, and hope the next time you come to race that we will have alot more competition for you to see/race with. In top form, this place ROCKS!!!! :jest: John @ RJ

John
I'm gonna try and get some of the other Classic guys to come over.

John, ever think of Joining Arcor. And becoming an arcor track? Right now there is no PA representation.

It's $50 a year and if the racers join they can be included in the national points series. They setup links to your track on www.arcor-rc.com so it would give you some advertising there. You can also host state races, etc. It would be nice in case we can't race on Saturday's to come over on Sunday and still get our points by racing at River Jct.
Let me know if you want more info on it and I can lead you in the right direction

Eric Hutkay
Ohio Arcor Director

To All ...

As I was leaving on Sunday, Mike asked if I'd agree to run 19 turn on September 7. (Remember .... The Raceway is closed this weekend, August 31)

I'm asking everyone's opinon on that. Apparently, the talk is to go to 19 turn zero degree for the upcoming fall/winter season. I'm OK with that, I'm just curious as to who wants to run this class. Also, if we're going to go to 19 turn motors, perhaps we should tell John so that he can stock up.

I'm just trying to get some things clear here before we start the class. If we're going to run 19 turn on September 7, I'll have to use an old Chameleon, as I don't have any other 19 turn motors.

Let's get a brief discussion going on this and tell John what to expect.

Thanks!

PanMan

I was thinking, are all the stock guys going to jump to 19T?
If not won't that hurt class size to have about 5 in each class? Unless attendence really picks up here.

I say let the locals decide it being they are the ones who will be there week in/week out.

Before stocking the shelfs, I would see which ARCOR motor runs the best for the track. From my experience Kisbey, Putnam, KC and Fantom all put out good motors. Problem is each has many options as far as which can they use, Epic (P-94, D-4, D-5), Reedy Ti, etc. and some even have thin (RPM based) and thick (Torque based) webs.

Mike, jump in here at any time, LOL

well thats ok if we have 5 and 5 for now cus it will pick up,,, and i think it is a good idea for the fast guys to go to 19 turn thay way the rest of the mid pack racers have a chance to be the front runners in the A main.
as far as the what 19 turn to get ill be talking to KC tommoro and find out . i my self just wana get all the 19 turn racen time in i can B4 the nats,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ill post on here tommoro after i talk to them as what motor to get,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,eric is the 19 turn class at the nats open timing and 0 deg ??

At the Norrca Nats only open 19T will be ran.
Arcor is the only sanctioning body that runs 0 degree at a National Event.

I`ll probably be running stock. I dont think I`ll have the 19 turns ready and will have a short practice time for the Norrca Nats.

Yeah I am running stock to for the Nats, I'll get killed by the locals in 19T let alone the out of towners. LOL
I will probably start playing more with the 19T's after the Norcca's. Maybe run 0 degree or open depending on what the masses run and prep for the ARCOR open in April.

:wave: Hi all, this is Paul Gugliotti. From reading these threads and hearing it through the grape vine, I see we have quite a few more "Imported" racers from Ohio going to River Junction now. Looks like it was a great idea to race oval on Sundays! I hope this doesn't impede our Youngstown/Warren gang from running odd ball classes like east coast mod and late models. LOL

well i wana step it up to 19 turn i think i can do just a well as i do in stock well i hope anyway im going to run 19 turn for a wile and see what happens

Yep you will be fine Mike, I don't think I will have any problem driving it, I just haven't learned the proper techniques for building a mod motor yet. So I would have a major learning curve there.

Hello Paul,

Bring your East Coasts Mods and other clases. Once the fall season really picks up they really start packing them in. They have raced ECM, sprint cars ect there many many times. Just have to wait till everyone gets summer out of there bloodl. :roll:

Hey Paul, good to hear from you! Yes, what they said above.
Eric: I am interested in ARCOR, but aren't we a "small" track for something like a regionals?? :rolleyes:
Eric, Mike, Doggy, Panman: Just get your e-heads together and let me know what motor/motors you want to run, and what you want to do with the class and it's DONE. I think that a "PRO" class is the way to go, and probably others will agree. There should be some sort of a requirement to get "in" the class, though. Possibly a consistent 58 or 59 lap run or better??............ discuss amongst yourselves, but don't get verklempt (Saturday Night Live) Just let me know. John :wave:

John,
I agree with you, River Jct would be too small to host a National race. But there are many ARCOR tracks in the south which are smaller in size and capacity than tracks like Classic, BMS and Sandhills. They still offer the points series to their racers, State races and even have shootouts between the next closest Arcor track. Plus when the racers are involved in the points chase it makes their attendance more regular. I am a good example I never planned on racing much this summer but with the summer points seriees I needed to get 12 races in. Otherwise I would have maybe only raced 6-8 times. Think about it and let me know.
And if still interested we can get you a track packet so you can see what its all about.

Eric, yes I'm still interested!! I was just concerned that they didn't expect us to host "too big" of a race. I think that we should try all avenues to try to get more racers, both at The Raceway, and in R/C in general. And, if during that, we get some publicity, hey :thumbsup:
Thanks, and I'll be waiting for the packet. John @ RJ :wave:

John - I'm OK with the idea of a PRO class. We'd need enough racers to differentiate, though. It's tough to have a Pro and "other" class with 5 cars.

I have two cars and enough batteries, so I'd probably run BOTH eventually - 19 turn and stock. Once there is enough heats to provide plenty of wrench time between races.

I don't know what everyone else is after, but I'd like a class that is less dependent on the "best" motors and batteries. I'd even consider spec motors and stick packs if it would make the racing close. I keep hearing stories about the 19 turn zero degree class - that it's close, tight racing. If that's true, then sign me up. I don't want to get into another class like 4 cell stock where we can almost predict who will finish where. That's really getting old. I race 4 cell stock simply because it's the only game in town - I never said I liked it.

Does anyone have any ideas on rules for spec classes? Maybe from other tracks? Erock - Does ARCOR have spec class rules?

Looks like this season may be interesting!

PanMan

Kevin, I would COMPLETELY agree, but in the beginning, we need to just have the class- no matter what happens with the other classes. Besides, there are ( fill in #) racers RIGHT NOW that can qualify for the class at all. I'm not saying anything about others, just that by skimming-off the "cream" we can then have NEW "cream" getting made. Unfortunately, that could mean that when 19T gets boring for some.......then what?? Mod? turn timing up? brushless? Slot cars?!?!?!?!?!?! :jest:

Kevin
Arcor offers plenty of options

1. Spec Stock
-- Any pan car chassis
-- Trinity Spec Motor 21 Turns (about $24)
-- Trinity Spec 1600mah pack ($13)
-- Race Prep R Brush must be used, serrations allowed
-- Any motor springs allowed
-- Any spec foams are allowed as long as the mfg specifies they are spec, most popular Trinity and Bolink (also the track can designate specific compounds if they choose to make it more even) Usually about $10-12/pr fronts and $12-14/pr rear)
-- No sponsor stickers on the car
-- Very popular, growing class, cheap batts and motors, plus with the 21 turn motor turn almost the same laps as a normal stock class.

Arcor Stock
-- Arcor non matched 3000 mah spec pack ($30-35)
-- Any 24 degree, 27 turn legal motor
-- Any foam tires

Master's stock
-- The normal stock class, 3300 mah allowed
-- Any 27T, 24 degree motor

19T 0 Degree
--3300mah allowed
-- Arcor 19T motor, set at 0 degrees timing

19T Open
-- 3300mah allowed
-- Arcor 19T motor, 36 degrees max timing allowed

Open Mod
Normal mod rules apply

John - I'm fine with just getting the class started. You're the one who suggested a Pro class. I probably wouldn't qualify for the Pro status anyway, so it doesn't matter to me. Like I said, I'm just after a class that provides some decent racing - not the "same ol' same ol'" that's happening now. If we can do it with cost controlled products (spec motors, spec batteries), so much the better.

Eric - Thanks for the scoop on the Arcor classes. I cut and pasted it to a Word document so that I can refer to it in the future. The Spec Stock class looks interesting. Batteries for $13 is right down my alley. A few years ago, I ran with a small Trinity Street Spec series. I had a blast. No center shock - just fuel tubing. Cheap batteries and bulletproof motors. The cars were relatively fast and handled pretty well. Also, the competition was CLOSE - no races won by 4 laps or more. This is the type of racing I'm looking for. I have no desire to participate in a national event and I'm sure I won't be the next Joel Johnson. I just want a hobby that provides me with a couple of hours of fun for a few bucks. Please don't take this wrong, but it's very demoralizing when Eric or Mike O. laps me for the third time. God bless you for your talent and ability to set up a car - more power to you. But, in those types of races, I'm not having fun.

Ok, .... enough of my whining. I'm just looking for a fun class to race at the Raceway. So far, 4 cell stock "ain't it".

Thanks, guys.

PanMan (Kevin)

PanMan for a fun class run late models or East Coast Modifieds with us. On second thought maybe you better not, You'll beat us!!!!

Erock, how does ARCOR points work if you race at more than one track? If John joins would we get points at Classic and RJ? Can you sign me up or do I have to go through the web site?

Glad to see more Ohio guys going to Beaver. I takes me about an hour to go to either Classic or RJ. Like both tracks but getting home from Classic at 1 or 2 in the morning sucks. Going to PA has $3 in tolls but get home at a decent hour and now with changing to early on Sunday it will be even better!!!

PGoogs - Racing ECM's with you guys would be cool, but that would mean I'd have to buy an entirely new car! I've got four pan cars and I'm trying to stay away from more car purchases. It WOULD be fun, though. I've seen you guys run them and they're quick and close! I think you're being generous mentioning that I might win. You guys have those things working really well!

Looks like Sunday is a favorable day for nearly everyone. I'm looking forward to getting the season underway!

PanMan

Googs,
The annual membership is $25 which includes a rulebook, Dash plaque, and T-shirt and includes you in the National points series.

The points series works as follows:

1. ARCOR has established a National Track Championship Points series, in which a racer does not have to leave his home track and may still compete with other ARCOR members at other ARCOR tracks. This series is sponsored by ARCOR and there is no additional cost to the racers or tracks for this series.

2. ARCOR is based on two seasons. Paved and Carpet. Paved season will run from April 1st through September 31st. Carpet season will run from October 1st through March 31st. Every ARCOR class ran on a weekly basis, at every ARCOR track is eligible for the Points series.

3. The National Track Championship series runs for 6 months, consists of 24 races, 12 to count for points. Tracks are responsilbe for sending the weekly results to ARCOR each month, for point recording. Racers must turn in a minimum of 8 races over the 6 month series to be eligible. Races missed may be made up the following month, but may not be made up by races ran the previous month.

4. Only ARCOR members will be counted for points. Points will be awarded by the finish of ARCOR memebr in any given race. Points will be awarded as follows. 1st is 100pts, 2nd is 98 pts, dropping one point for each place. 1 point for a top 10 finish, one point for each ARCOR member beat and 2 points for TQ. TQ will be based on the ARCOR member in the race with the best qualifier time, even if that racer should qualify in a lower place against non-ARCOR members.

5. Points will be tallied each month and posted on the ARCOR web site (www.ARCOR-RC.com) by the 15th of each month.

6. Awards will be Champion and Reserve Champion in each class ran.

I believe you would get points at both tracks. Let me double check though for sure.

I tell the racers since you need 12 races in the series and there is 6 months in a series you need to average 2 races per month. Arcor takes your 2 best runs that month for points keeping and you drop the others. (unless you need make-up's from a prior month).

I will taking sign-ups at our State race on Sept 13. Or you can fill out a membership form found on Arcor's stie www.arcor-rc.com

well i will be racen stock for one more week motors will not be in till next monday but i did talk to dawn from KC racing and it looks like the tie can in the way to go. so maybe we get a big bunch of ppl next week

Mike, Eric, Kevin, etc. just let me know what to get, and we'll have them ASAP. This class is for you guys, so don't be cheap! You can afford them! :jest:

Pan Man, You could run late models, we just mount a Bolink body on a pancar. Not sure about the status of Bolink or getting the bodies but Macalister has an even better looking one and they are available on e-bay or through Macalister web site. I've seen you run too, that's why I said you would be beating us eventually!!!!LOL

I already have 3 Ti's so I wont be needing any soon.

John
I have a Track Application form for you
I don't have your full name and address. Can you email it to me?
Thanks
Eric

eric.hutkay@beldenblake.com

Guys, I found about how the points will work.

According to JB, the prez of ARCOR,
"The Points series was started to encourgae racers to race at their home track. This is why I have home track on the membership form. The only time points can be counted from another track is for Sanctioned races. For the most part, this would involve few racers on the local level, but also help the track that is having a State Race or Sanctioned race.

So, to simply answer our questions. Points are for home track only, Classic guys can't get points at River Jct and vice versa.

Thanks
Eric

Also
Say if I race at Beaver which is not my home track (assuming River Jct. joins ARCOR) and someone beats me, they do not get the extra bonus point for beating an ARCOR me, only at ARCOR sanctioned State, Regional and National events would you get the bonus points.

Kevin - I'm with you 100% on the having fun part. That's the main reason I run the late model, EDM type classes, it's less serious and closer fun racing. The ARCOR Spec class would be a low cost, close racing class - possibly with the late model bodies or even the nostalgia NASCAR bodies like the Bolink 69 Ford, 69 Charger etc or McAllister 55 Chev? There's a lot of possibilities to add a new dimension to the class. This would definitely get away from the battery wars and the "motor of the month club".
Rick Lohr

Running the vintage bodies is a great idea.No wings,no slaming,and full back bumpers(if they don't make them float).That would be the class for me!
The Mcallister bodies look very cool.55 Chevy or 56 Ford.
Using pan cars.The bodies them selves may slow them down enough to keep them close.
Also, don't forget trucks!

Rick I think that is a good idea- but also, it would be good to try to have a class that a visitor (who runs Spec?) could run in when they come racing. I think the body thing would work, but the other class must stay with more "traditional" bodies. Also, if we have too many "different" pancar classes, wouldn't we have 4 or 5 MAX in each of them?? Hmm................... I don't mind it if we have 4 or more in a class, but alot of people like to have B-Mains, etc. to know that they achieved something. This is why? we give the winner of EACH MAIN something for winning, because everyone can't run in the "A" only.
Glitcher- I KNEW you would like running old bodies without the backs cut out. But, where can you get a '55 Chevy fender? :lol:
Just a few comments as the week passes by. John @ RJ :wave:

One thing I have learned are the fad classes dont seem to last. I bought a Legends car about a year a half ago only to have no one ever show up again to race Legends. Then I bought a 1/18th scale BRP car last year. At least we did get to race them about once a month when the Clevelanders came down but that was about it.

I still think the way to go is either the Stock spec class using the Trinity spec packs, spec motors and spec tires. Maybe even throw in a track rule like Classic does and make them run the body with no wing and you have to leave the back in the body in no cutting out.

Or the ARCOR spec class where you can use your regular stock motors but use the ARCOR 3000mah spec pack is an option too.

Lohrr1 - Thanks for the comments. I think we're both after just having some fun racing.

We can discuss all of these different ideas, but I agree with John - We shouldn't dilute the other classes. And, John also says that he'll run anything because the classes are for the RACERS - and he's right.

I guess I really agree with Eric when he says to stay away from the "fads". The more I think about it, the more it seems like the ARCOR Spec class might be the way to go. Why?

1. There's already a set of recognized rules developed. We don't have to make decisions.

2. The possiblity of visiting racers running the class improves. If someone calls the Raceway, John can tell them that we run ARCOR Spec as a class. If they have the stuff, they can run immediately. Chances are people will be racing that same type of "organized" class from another track. And, there's a set of published rules that they can use to check if their set-up is legal BEFORE they get to the track.

3. The rules address the battery and motor issues. The cost is low, so we all can afford a motor or two and a couple of battery packs.

4. We can use the pan chassis that we already have. No car purchases.

5. Low cost to get started. If we want to try the class, all we need to get is one motor and a couple battery packs. Maybe less than $50 to try it! That's about the same as one good 19 turn hand wound motor. Or one decent 4 cell pack of GP3300's.

I guess if everyone said to me "pick a class and vote for it", I'd vote for the ARCOR Spec. It just seems right due to the reasons listed above. Eric stated that it's a "popular class". We could give it a go.

Thanks to everyone for your responses and ideas. Remember, I've cut back on my racing (one to two times a month) so DO NOT make any decisions based on my preferences. We have to do what's right for everyone. The best way to do that is to state what you'd like to do and let John know. We can get organized from there.

Again, thanks to all for your interest!

PanMan (Kevin)

Kevin,
I think you're right about the spec class. It also allows someone to move up to another class if they desire without buying a whole new car. I think that was one of the downfalls of the Trinity Spec class - in order to run any other class you had to buy not only motor, tires and battery but also a whole new car including esc and servo since they were limited. Are you thinking 4 cell or 6 cell spec? Count me in for whichever form of spec class is decided on.
Rick Lohr

i say we go with a laptime brake out class like ycity,, all you have to do is set the min lap to lets say 4.0 if you if you under that it dont count that lap,, so lets say you have a 60 lap run but you have 3 laptimes that are under 4.0 guess what you just got a 57,,,,,there goes the battery war there goes the motor war,,,, but my self i wana run all out stock or 19 turn,,,,its does not matter what class you race in what track you race at you cant make every one happy,,,,and if you think about there is no real motor/battery war,,,,, the real war is all SETUP SETUP SETUP.,,,, i allwase try to help but some people listen some people dont.if you run the same setup at jacks,classic,beaver and washington thats not good,,,here is a good example i just got a new car diff type from the old one.with the old car i run 62 or 63 all the time why is it with the new car i only run 2 59s and a 60 SETUP SETUP SETUP
sorry just trying to get a point acrossed

Agreed Mike about setup.
Every heat I have ran at Beaver I have always had a different setup. If you don't try things you won't get faster. 3 trips over there and went from 59's to 61's. I'll take that progress.

Ya Ya Eric, I seen the heat and the batterys you pulled out of the secret box (the one that was guarded by Wells Fargo) hehe. But I agree with you and Mike. I was a hard head in the beginning and since I have got alot better with set up, I run the 60 laps etc. Although once you got that batters and motor then come along :)

Hey guys got some updated info and prices by talking to a track that runs the ARCOR spec classes.

The ARCOR stock class.
Uses a 3000mah matched pack which comes from Pro-match so the cells are reputable. Also note there are no lables on the pack in effort to eliminate the numbers game. The guy I talked to said he cycled some packs and they were nearly identicle.
Price is $33 per pack

The Stock spec class uses the Trinity 4-cell 1600mah pack which sells for $12.99-$18 range depending on where you get them.
and the Trinity spec motor is $29

Hope that helps in deciding which class would be better to run if stock wants to go spec to even out the field.

Rick - Looks like Eric's last post answers our questions. I, too, was wondering if the ARCOR Spec was 6 cell or 4 cell so, ..... thanks to Eric for clearing that up. 4 cell it is!

Mike and Eric - I totally agree that set-up is a MAJOR player in the car's speed. I'd also like to add "driver ability" to that equation. I know I'm not the most consistent driver out there, and those tenths are costing me laps. This is all true and I couldn't agree more with your statements concerning the importance of set-up.

HOWEVER, - Mike - you drove my car and you KNOW it's flat. Down on speed - period. You know that my set-up isn't too far off from yours. Batteries and motors DO play a significant role in the performance of the car. If not, you guys can drop your cells and motors off at John's and donate them to the "Kevin Speed Fund". I'm sure you'd be happy with any motor and battery pack as a replacement. Let's face it - it takes EVERYTHING working well to produce a fast race car. You guys check the match, voltage level and internal resistance of your cells and you dyno your motors. If it didn't matter or wasn't important, you wouldn't do that.

I plan on racing this Sunday at the Raceway, so I hope to see everyone there! You can look for me - I'll be the one turning 58 to 59 laps while Eric and Mike lap me numerous times. On second thought, I might not even make it into the A Main! It sure was close last time!

Kevin

Kevin you got a private message

Eric - You have messages in return. Thanks.

In a general outlook of this whole discusson, the fact of the matter is the fast guys will always be fast no matter what class the run. When your in a RACE there is always a WINNER and the RUNNER UPS. NO one wins all the time. You never know whats going to happen in a race. I have beat everyone that races at RJ and alot of them have beaten me. Somethimes your car works better, sometimes you avoid all the mishaps. If its your day you win, if not try harder next time. For me I love the challenge of trying to be one of the top guys. Im always trying to go faster, drive better, get my cars setup better etc. Somethimes it works somethimes Im scratching my head. I will be there sunday with all my best stuff and my racing face looking foward to the A-Main. But If im not it wont be the first but I assure you I will still have fun, talk the talk and give it everyting I have.