Hey AJ

Had a great time racing with you guys.. I liked the BL enough i'm going to set one car with the 4300 and the other with the 5800.. see ya all in march..

cowboy :thumbsup:

Looking forward to it.

AJ

Also a good 3rd class, with 4300 or 5800 motor :cool:

I have 2 4300 novak systems and they both work great!!!
They worked right from the start and are running fantastic!!!

Dave D

Could someone tell me what the weight difference between the 5800 motor is and a typical brushed MOD motor?

Thanks

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The Novak is 6.5 oz. Mod motors depend on the wind... somewhere around 6 oz.

I have a Novak 4300 Brushless SuperSport and have encountered something unusual when programming the speed control. I have two Futuba 3PDF radios, one programs just fine when I go into the setup mode, the other radio is not usable as the Novak just will not go into the setup mode with this radio. I have changed TX & RX crystals and still no results. Has anyone else had a similar experience or any input on this situation. The radio in question works fine with several other LRP speed controls. :confused:

Hey Guys,

Sometimes radios have "Low" throttle output, that's meaning not enough throw. Try resetting the throttle End-Points and redoing the setup, also you can try reversing the throttle channel.

Drop us a line if you'd like
Tech@teamnovak.com

Thanks
Charlie

Just got one, going to try running it in the open class this summer in my T3 (might upgrade to T4 later). Its going to be a very large track where 8th scale buggies also run.


I keep reading its not equilivant to the 10 turn Novak claims, but can it keep pace with a 12 turn?

In 4 cell... they are just a tick faster then a 19turn with adjustable timing. Not sure about how they do with 6 cells, but I'm told that they do indeed outproform a 19 turn when they have 6 cells worth of voltage. I've also heard in the neighborhood of a 12 turn when 6 cells are used, but I have no real data that I've seen to back this up.

My speculation about why this would be so much differnt between 4 cells and 6 cells is that it's due to the electronics in the controler. It's my belief that the SS controler is not very effcient at very high current rates... say 40 amps or higher... In four cell oval racing we gear up so far that we are often averaging near 30 amps, and in slow corners we are probably demanding that the motor operate at 40 amps or higher at least on some ocasions, and I think the controler is acting like a current limiter at those high amp rates, and therfore restricts the power significantly...

Now why wouldn't this same thing happen at 6 cells? well it probably does, but I suspect that the typical racer doesn't use all the power that would be available at 35 amps and 7.2 volts... and when they load the motor to the point where it's pullng 40 amps or more they probably still have more then enough power even with some limiting that may be occuring.... I also suspect that 6 cell racers don't quit average 30 amps, perticularly when they race off road....

My guess is that if given a more stout controler the 5800 Novak motor would put out more power at high amp loads then it currently does with the SS controler.

Which begs the question... when will Novak or other company put out a controler that can operate at say 60 amps as effciently as it will at 30 amps? or in ohter words... when will we start to see more competition level controlers available?

Just got one, going to try running it in the open class this summer in my T3 (might upgrade to T4 later). Its going to be a very large track where 8th scale buggies also run.


I keep reading its not equilivant to the 10 turn Novak claims, but can it keep pace with a 12 turn?

It really depends on the track. I ran one all summer in a TC3, and it was competitive with 10-12 turn motors. The 10 or less turn motors usually had more punch off the corners, but couldn't run a tall enough gear to really go much faster than the Novak at the end of the straight. (At least not without REALLY BIG batteries). In fact, the brushless motors won the A-main more than brushed mods. Running off-road, I doubt that you'll be giving up anything to brushed mods, since traction is usually a limiting factor. And you WON'T have to work on the motor between heats.

Running off-road, I doubt that you'll be giving up anything to brushed mods, since traction is usually a limiting factor. And you WON'T have to work on the motor between heats.

Thats what I am hoping for. There have been times I ran a stock motor in modified....

Anyone know how they stand up to modified brushe motors in say a touring car on carpet?

hey did anyone hear about that super sport plus brushless/brushed esc novak made

I know Tower has a listing that is named... "Novak Super Sport Plus Brushless/Brush Programmable ESC" and it says "order pending" next to it.

Maybe trying to copy LRP use it with both motors.brushed/brushless

yea i seen that i was looking for more info on it, and i bet it is gonna be better than lrp

I just wished the esc was smaller and a tad lighter. Ain't wanting much am I.

Thats going to be pretty hard to do considering the ESC has to take DC and convert it to three phase AC.

Haven't seen anything yet from Novak that's better then LRP ;)

I think things will ineed get smaller over time, but pat is right that there's alot more going on in a brushless controler then there is a brushed motor controler. I think it's alot like 3 reverseing ESCs in one package. Each of the 3 parts has to be fully capable of putting out full power in either direction, then cycling though each of the three portions of the controler in sequnce controled by some sort of processor or other realitively sophisticated form of control. I suspect that burshless controlers will always be at least twice the size of the smallest ESC.

Actually, a brushless ESC is the same as 1.5 reversing speed controls, or 6 forward-only ones (sorta). Brushless needs to switch 3 motor wires to either + or - on the battery, so a minimum of 6 MOSFETs are needed. A reversing (brushed) ESC needs to switch 2 motor wires (4 MOSFETS minimum), and a forward-only brushed ESC just switches 1 wire (to minus). To lower resistance and increase amp rating, most ESCs use 2 or more MOSFETS in parallel. High-end ones might have 4 or more.

Most "mini" ESC use 6 FETs (maybe 7), the Tekin G-10 uses 20 FETs.

A brushless motor operates on 3 phase AC in a Delta configuration. Basically 3 sine waves 120 degrees out of phase. Its not a simple on/off like brushed motor esc's that utilize pulse width modulation.

There not generating actual sine waves though are they? I assume they are more like square waves...

I have read that the brushless controlers are not as effcient at slow speeds as they are at higher speeds... that is that they tend to warm up more going at say half throttle then they do at full throttle... Is there truth to this? Suposedly this is because they have to turn on/off forward/reverse polarity anyway... Something about that explination just doesn't sound right however... I mean, the amount of times they switch ploarity is directly related to RPM and not nessasarly throttle posistion (depending on load, etc)... It would seem obvious that lower RPM means less switching, and how could this be less effcient?

Kevin... Assuming your description is correct (and I do)... then your saying for a brushless controler to have the same voltage drop (total across two phases)as a forward only ESC, then a brushless controler has to have 12 times as many FETs as a forward only brushed ESC?

Dyno, regular ESC's aren't as efficient at partial throttle either. This is because the on/off is not instaneous there is a ramp up in the square wave.

And I am pretty sure that brushless motors opperate on a simulated sine wave, chopped up by many many steps where the steps are on the order of microseconds. Ill have to take mine into work and put a scope to it when I get it installed.

Kevin... Assuming your description is correct (and I do)... then your saying for a brushless controler to have the same voltage drop (total across two phases)as a forward only ESC, then a brushless controler has to have 12 times as many FETs as a forward only brushed ESC?

Basically, yes. Or fewer FETs that are a lot better. It's the same reason why reversing speed controls for brushed motors aren't as fast as forward only. But, the brushless motor doesn't have the efficiency losses or friction of the comm, so this helps make up for the less efficient ESC. And with all modern ESCs, we're talking millivolts anyway.

And lets remember that all brushless controllers have the same thing to work with. So even if you can't compare the brushless ESC resistance with a brushed ESC, you can compare them to other brushless ESC... it's all relative.

I got my Novak yesterday... I was reading the instructions... they say that the controler can handle 225w... Who knows maybe they are being conservitive... The LRP motor is rated at either 234 or 255W depending on what LRP source you beleive. So, for LRP to say there motor can handle their motor... is not really saying that there controler is very much better then the Novak, maybe 10% better at best based on what info I've found.