CrazyDave

1. No there won't be any racing or practice at all until further notice.
2. Another one of our building options is in Wayland, the other is on West River Drive. The track in West Olive is being built by one of our fellow racers, and will be a seperate club. He is mostly concetrating on indoor and outdoor off-road tracks.
3. By more exposure what exactly do you mean??
a.) More exposure by what street it is on?
b.) More exposure by what city it is in?
c.) Or more exposure by the affordability and condition the building is in?

Personally I highly oppose the first two for the reason that if we only base our decision on where to race by how many people are going to see the building from the street or that it's in G.R., Wayland or wherever we won't find what we NEED, only something that will be very visible and expensive (the two go together and can't be seperated, just look at the cost of prop. that fronts 28th street in G.R. compared to prop. that fronts say 29th. street. It's a very significant number.)

Right now I have personnaly visited one of the two buildings we have prospects with and it is very nice, but I feel it is too much for what it is. And the club won't be able to afford it with it's curtrent turn-outs that we've had. I have not seen the other one but have been told it is more affordable, but I don't know what condition it is in, or if it will fit our needs. But as soon as we figure out where we will be, everyone will be notified and posts made on here and such.

the bottom line is people will come race wherever we have the track, even if they complain about the location. So in the end exposure and location don't even make a difference, and shouldn't. Price and building conditions ahould be the only thing driving the decision.

More exposure means more racers exspecially new ones. I think that's what he means. I know R and L in kalamazoo draws about the same number of racers with basically one track and one type of racing off road. GLRC has Oval and Stadium. I think the biggest thing hurting the club is the lack of a consistant location. If your new to rc cars unless you know some one or camp out on the net you don't know where you can race. Granted if you buy your stuff locally the guys at the hobby shop will know where to race but how many people are buying from tower and have no idea where grlc races at since it changes from year to year not to mention sometimes within the year. Well anyway just my 2 cents find a location that is available every year and has some otehr type of business in it during the summer. That's why the Halloweeen USA stores work well.Or how about a Rogers Plaza or North kent mall both dying bring 100+ racers a week indoors and in the summer outdoors and you havea draw for the mall owners.

Yes higher visability does usually mean higher rents but if you can offer something to the landlords that maybe will help the other businesses they mayt go for it. For example how many paying club memebers are there? what is the average income? How many bring Guests with them when they race? What age range attend our races and are members. Now mister landlord for 6 months out of the year I can deliever a very deliever 100 of these types of people to you on a weekly basis and also there friends and families. Can we get a better price on rent?

Do you honestly think to buy, maintain and operate the carousel in rivertown you can do that for 1.00 a ride. No it's there to draw kids and parents with wallets and in turn the mall can deliver to it's retail stores more customers and since most shopping mall get a cut of retail sales there rent goes up with more customers.

Originally posted by crashmaster
i know that phat dakota is andy,nitrorod is jerrod,damige inc. is erick and sandy, kwada kid is steven s,daroot'e'yeah is bill i think how am i doing so far


Ok Muller...Eric is Damageinc all by hisself...i have my own...

:lol: :p

I was just thinking of ways to have your club more visable to prospective rc racers. You are correct in what you said, people will come to race no matter where the location is, however, I heard talk about Lansing? in previous posts, or maybe it was something about a race in lansing. I think that in all consideration to something in Kent county is a viable solution. Just out of curiosity, what does rent for a building cost? What is the membership cost? and is their a break even point? Has the GLRC club been successful?

I think the club is great. I am somewhat new to be involved with you guys, and have not yet joined. I will join the next chance I get. I certainly hope that the club is successful, and can remain successful for the future of this growing sport/hobby.

oh and muller did you figure out who the rcwhatever it is is yet?


because i know!

These are some great questions and I hope they dont get lost in the shuffle.

Originally posted by Crazydave25
Just out of curiosity, what does rent for a building cost? What is the membership cost? and is their a break even point? Has the GLRC club been successful?

Originally posted by nitrorod
These are some great questions and I hope they dont get lost in the shuffle.
Here's a few answers...

Rent: $3,000.00 per month. (most always includes elec & heat)
Insurance: $150.00 per month.
Duct tape: $75.00 per month.
Carpet: $2,500.00 every couple of years. (or $200.00 set aside per month)
Trash bags, garbage service, paper, misc. $100.00 per month


Membership cost: $25.00
Entry fees: $12.00 member, $15.00 non-member

So, taking the figure of $3,525.00 and dividing that by four weeks equals $881.25 per week as the cost of operation. Now, divide the $881.25 by $$13.50 (avg. racer entry) and you need to have 65.3 racers EVERY weekend to break even.

Let's not forget the initial startup cost for computer, AMB scoring system, scoring software (very expensive), carpet, borders, tables, chairs, drivers stand and the list goes on.

Has anyone contributed for Sponsors? Selling Ads, etc.? I noticed a big Riders sign and some others at the place on thornhills.

contributed - Riders?, Don't we wish!

Well I would say that we need to cut costs somewhere because the best weekend I see this year is in the 50 range.

Originally posted by John Warner
Here's a few answers... (I shortened this up to save space)

So, taking the figure of $3,525.00 and dividing that by four weeks equals $881.25 per week as the cost of operation. Now, divide the $881.25 by $$13.50 (avg. racer entry) and you need to have 65.3 racers EVERY weekend to break even.

A way to cut cost on duct tape would be to leave our track out for a few weeks. Problem is we have to change for oval which means we go through like 4 to 5 rolls a week.

Duct Tape isn't the real issue here. As far as the tape goes, if everyone would bring a couple of rolls each we'd pretty much have it covered.

Cutting costs.... I guess we could find a much cheaper place, but then we we'd lose racers because it would either be to small, or not up to their standards.

We could cut buying carpet and maybe Rider's would buy it for us every couple of years or so.

Garbage service, toilet paper, printer paper, trash bags.... again, maybe if everyone brought...??? The same thing with getting rid of the trash every week. Maybe people could take some to work with them and put it in the dumpster there??

Any other suggestions from anybody?????

Hey who the heck is crazy Dave? I thought I was the only one from Spring Lake:confused:

I know that here in holland west shoremall is trying to get permisission from the township to bring in bands and such so they can generate traffic in the mall. I'm sure grand rapids has a similar story with malls like rogers plaza and north kent etc. why not ask them for just any empty store front that they have and rent it for the months we need it. I can' imagine they would turn us town without considering it. Especially if we can say we have at leats 50 or so paying racers every weekend plus whatevcer we generate during the week. Now if we offer them let's say 1500.00 a month on the provision that we promote the races at the local hobby shops etc. and that we take the other 1500 and run ads in the local papers drumming up more people for there retail tenents.


As I see it the club has 2 assets equipment to run races and people. Now let's take our people and try to maximize that asset we all buy things (hmm 400.00 for a turbo 35bl so we have money and if your buying a 400 charger you better be buying a nice gift for your wife or significant other)presnet for christmas etc. Now I assume we all work so if we race all day saturday and sunday when are we gonna buy gifts cause if your racing saturday and sunday with your little toys you better be buying good presents Well the best solution forall of us is before or after a race pick up a little something. Now we also have to eat so were going to be spending money in the restaurants of the mall.

I do recall when I was younger the racing that went on at the malls around gr and it seemed like there were more people racing not to mention this is how I was exposed to it orginally.

When we rent buildings like the thornhills building and others teh only thing we are is tenents but to any other buisness taht relys on exposure and people we are potential customers.

Originally posted by psycho02
Hey who the heck is crazy Dave? I thought I was the only one from Spring Lake:confused: Gee Ken, You really don't know who crazy dave is??? Geesh!

ummmmmmmmm nope I really don't the only 2 daves I know are dave muller he is definitely crashmaster (obviously) and Dave Herring who is fishrc so yep I am lost on that one.

Location: Spring Lake, MI USA
Interests: RC, Sports, Music, Guitar, and BEER
Occupation: Computer Geek

Does this help you any??

ummmmmmm NO JOHN NOT AT ALL I know spring lake is a small town and all but that does not mean that everybody knows everybody sheeeeeeesh.:roll: until today I thought that I was the only rc racer in spring lake. And oh btw I already looked at the bio on the profile what do you think I am a :hat:

Well, that makes two of us because I don't know either.

Originally posted by John Warner
Duct Tape isn't the real issue here. As far as the tape goes, if everyone would bring a couple of rolls each we'd pretty much have it covered.

Cutting costs.... I guess we could find a much cheaper place, but then we we'd lose racers because it would either be to small, or not up to their standards.

We could cut buying carpet and maybe Rider's would buy it for us every couple of years or so.

Garbage service, toilet paper, printer paper, trash bags.... again, maybe if everyone brought...??? The same thing with getting rid of the trash every week. Maybe people could take some to work with them and put it in the dumpster there??

Any other suggestions from anybody?????

Why not ask people to donate the stuff that you have to have, plus some monetary donations. You know if me and Eric had the money we would be donating money for you. But such as the trash thing. I don't know how much Eric could fit in his car but even if you wanted to swing by our house before you go home to drop off all the trash in the dumpsters..we don't get charged for that.

Just a though though.......

:)

Oh and let us know when you would be moving so we can try to get out there to help you guys.. I don't want you to get stuck doing it all by yourself.

The only problem I see with a mall location is that would they be happy with us being open before and after the time the mall is open. Almost every day we are open we would either be there before they open in the morning or well past the time they close at night. There are some nights last year, and even this short year we've had so far that we didn't get out of the track until after 1 or 2am. I'm sure they would have some concern about that I think, but it is a good option that is worth looking in to.

I see your point about the late nights and early mornings. I know most malls in the area open earlier for employees and also the mall walkers. As for the late nights if we started on time and kept the racing going we could finish a lot earlier. I know this has been a major topic in the past but I think part of that problem comes from the fact we need as many racers as we can get and will be flexible, if were in a high visabilty area (like a mall) hopefully will get some more new racers and therefore we can say racing starts at x - time and that's it. I know in my situation part of the problem is justifying leaving the significant other at home by herself for 10-12 hours if this were to happen I could say come along you can go shopping or whatever else.

As it is now I know with me and a few other racers it's a comprimise between racing and couch or No racing and nice warm bed with benefits. So I can only race every other weekend like I am now and that works fairly well.

As far as the mall angle we should propose to the mall owners as a long term solution not just a quick fix. For example we will rent from you for 6 months every year for the next five years and we will take any space within the mall that is xxx minimum square feet. By doing so the mall owners know that for 6 months every year for the next five they will be at 80% occupancy and when were not there they will be at 70% occupancy as an example. We could even commit to doing our parking lot racing in the summer in there lot as well.

Another benefit of a long term agreement with a mall would be that we could than try to attract some of the roving national races or events(Hpi Challenge) etc. Or even putting on our own new national event. Cleveland in November Grand Rapids in December.

Just a few more ideas to think about.

>>>For example we will rent from you for 6 months every year for the next five years<<<

Let's see, as an example, that would be $3000.00 per month for 6 months for 5 years. That is a total of $90,000.00

Who's going to step forward and sign a contract to commit to that? What happens if the club happens to fold? Would you pay that 90 grand out of your pocket? Sounds good just saying it but I doubt you'll find anyone willing to commit their home and everything they own for a club RC track.

HEAR YE, HEAR YE!!!

Come join us for the track packing-up party this Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I just got off of the phone with John and all I have to do is call the building owner and let him know what day/days we will be comming down to pack things up and he will be there to let us in. I have his # and will be letting him know I will be down there this weekend. I know this weekend is Cleveland, and Turkey day is comming up So I don't know how many of you will be able to come. But I know there has been a lot of response to the email and posts made about helping the club move.

I also got word from John that he looked at the Wayland building and even though it was more affordable it didn't meet our needs. There is one more building that could be a possibilty, but as of right now we are leaning towards the building on West River Drive. It also has another good feature or two as well. First off the building owner understands the hardships we have faced this season so far and is willing to cooperate with us. And the other is that his kids are racers of ours and is part of our "Racing Family" that shares the clubs' interests.

So keep an eye out on here, and I image John will be sending out an email to let everyone know as well, what times we will be down there. Also it would be wise to bring a cordless drill to help break down the track borders, and remove the electrical boxes from the pit tables.

Originally posted by hankster
>>>For example we will rent from you for 6 months every year for the next five years<<<

Let's see, as an example, that would be $3000.00 per month for 6 months for 5 years. That is a total of $90,000.00

Who's going to step forward and sign a contract to commit to that? What happens if the club happens to fold? Would you pay that 90 grand out of your pocket? Sounds good just saying it but I doubt you'll find anyone willing to commit their home and everything they own for a club RC track.

Very good point Hank. I know that I can't, and wouldn't, commit to a finacial burden such as that and I'm sure none of the other directors could finacially be able to risk $90K on our club, even though we all wish we could have a permanent place that we could rely on.

Well I'm assuming the club is organized as non profit under michigan law and most likely has it's own tax id number etc. Therfore the club itself is signing the lease not the individual the only liabiltiy would be assumed by the club. No of course whne teh club is entering the lease we would have to establish the following

How long the club has existed?

Number of members that the club has per year since inception?

Revenue generated for each race since the club was started?

My assumption with all of this is that for the last sevral yeasr the club has consistently paid 3000.00 a month rent now were negotiating for a long term lower monthly rent. After all it's always more to rent short term then it is long term.

Originally posted by hankster
>>>For example we will rent from you for 6 months every year for the next five years<<<

Let's see, as an example, that would be $3000.00 per month for 6 months for 5 years. That is a total of $90,000.00

Who's going to step forward and sign a contract to commit to that? What happens if the club happens to fold? Would you pay that 90 grand out of your pocket? Sounds good just saying it but I doubt you'll find anyone willing to commit their home and everything they own for a club RC track. Now there's something I can relate to very well! But, 90,000.00..... not a chance!

Times for Packing up.


I someone could post the times for packing up and tearing down this coming up weekend. I wil let as many people I know to try and help you guys out.

Dave

Andy I can help Fri. and Sat.I will charge my drill batteries tonight. Just post the times you are going to be there.Is there any heat in the building or do I need to dress for the cold.:lol:

I can be there too. Probably Fri and/or Sat with Drill.

Denney

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Originally posted by Phat Dakota
HEAR YE, HEAR YE!!!

Come join us for the track packing-up party this Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I just got off of the phone with John and all I have to do is call the building owner and let him know what day/days we will be comming down to pack things up and he will be there to let us in. I have his # and will be letting him know I will be down there this weekend. I know this weekend is Cleveland, and Turkey day is comming up So I don't know how many of you will be able to come. But I know there has been a lot of response to the email and posts made about helping the club move.

I also got word from John that he looked at the Wayland building and even though it was more affordable it didn't meet our needs. There is one more building that could be a possibilty, but as of right now we are leaning towards the building on West River Drive. It also has another good feature or two as well. First off the building owner understands the hardships we have faced this season so far and is willing to cooperate with us. And the other is that his kids are racers of ours and is part of our "Racing Family" that shares the clubs' interests.

So keep an eye out on here, and I image John will be sending out an email to let everyone know as well, what times we will be down there. Also it would be wise to bring a cordless drill to help break down the track borders, and remove the electrical boxes from the pit tables.

Hey Andy who owns the building on West River Dr.? Me and Eric wanna know...yes we are nosey!

Originally posted by crashmaster
rc12L34 i don't have the slitic clue:rolleyes:

the one up above...do you know who it is yet? If not i can't tell you...it's an ancient chinese secret!

:devil: :lol:

Originally posted by crashmaster
that is the only one i don't know yet please help me would you give me hints on who it is :(

You know him and he doesn't like Jerrod....Does that help you any??

Originally posted by crashmaster
please sandy i will be nice to eric on the track the next time we race


HAHAHAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What as he passes you??? LMAO!!!

Originally posted by crashmaster
it must be obi no daa it is jeff herdis

No that's OB1

Originally posted by crashmaster
if i recall corectly i beet hem the last time we raced the l is on you

That was because he was glitching really really bad...But he fixed that...No more beat.....


:p

Originally posted by crashmaster
yaeh yeah but i got new motors so he'll need help to beet me:roll: :devil:

and how legal are they?

Dave what server do you have?

Originally posted by crashmaster
how dare you ask that ?:cool:


I can ask anything i want

:p

I need to call the building owner and let him know but I was planning on being at the track around noon or so all this weekend. And I don't know for sure about the heat, but I would have to guess it's not on.

And Sandy, Sorry for not being much help but all I can tell you about the guy's name is it's Jim. I forgot his last name, but he's known John for a while.

See everyone this weekend:wave:

One last thing. I just wanted to wish all our racers heading off to Cleveland Tommorrow, GOOD LUCK GUYS!!!

Originally posted by Phat Dakota
I need to call the building owner and let him know but I was planning on being at the track around noon or so all this weekend. And I don't know for sure about the heat, but I would have to guess it's not on.

And Sandy, Sorry for not being much help but all I can tell you about the guy's name is it's Jim. I forgot his last name, but he's known John for a while.

See everyone this weekend:wave:

One last thing. I just wanted to wish all our racers heading off to Cleveland Tommorrow, GOOD LUCK GUYS!!!


That's alright Andy...i'll have Eric ask John....

Originally posted by crashmaster
hay what do you mean by server

hay andy moose wants to know i could pick up the body

you know aol? or whichever one it is that you get online with

Originally posted by crashmaster
aol is that good or not good should i use another one

I have aol...i've always had aol, for the last 4-5 years

Originally posted by Rainn2378
I have aol...i've always had aol, for the last 4-5 years

You gotta look at people's profiles on hobbytalk...a lot of people put their screen names on there for aol and yahoo and stuff

Originally posted by crashmaster
yea but that takes all the fun out of it

Says who?

Originally posted by crashmaster
andy moose wants me to come and pick up his body whin would be a good time

Spell check?

Originally posted by crashmaster
sandy i know my spelling suck leave me alone on that one plz:(

Just picking on ya

>>>3000.00 a month rent now were negotiating for a long term lower monthly rent.<<<

I guess you have no idea the costs for a retail type footage. Prime footage is $100+ per sqaure foot, non prime would be about half that. Now figure a track needs 10K sqaure foot... 3 grand is a bargin.

Also, very few, if any, malls will contract with a non-profit (unless they are well established - i.e. Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc.) so as soon as it would be said a non-profit would be signing the contract they wouldn't want to talk to you.

Sorry, but even for a small run down mall, an extra hundred people once a week ain't squat. Almost any type of business would get 5 times that in a day.

My suggestion, try a "fair grounds" or other such community type org.