Tom,

Awesome explanation!!! You must read Carrol Smith books!!

Wanna really make your head hurt??? Remember as the car moves the roll center is constantly in flux. Its never in the same spot for more than a millisecond of time.
All this talk of suspension geomtery is soo interesting but it really does make my feeble brian matter hurt!!!!

Ray,
Yep...exactly right.

The NUMBER 1 TUNING ITEM THAT NOBODY DOES!!!.....is.......

Try EVERY single camber and shock link on the car....on back to back to back packs....WITH a LAP TIMER!!

Ray:

Hi, you need to get a CAD program that lets you "model" your camber links and changes............now we need to figure out just how far the suspension does move...... THAT WILL really drive you nuts....I know as we have a program at work that I can play with.....now if I only learned all that geometry(sp??) in school.
oooh to be young again.

DaWrench.and fading fast.

DaWrench and Tom, I finally did play around with roll center changes and Caster changes and it really was quite interesting. What I felt most was Caster of course. I went with more caster and yes it did take away turn in. The trade off was the car came back at the apex and exit with more grip and control. It was also very easy to drive in the flowing parts of the track as well. Losing the turn in might not be a serious problem for most people, but I tend to lift too late and turn in too late for corners, so it was hurting me a little on one part of the track. It was cool to "feel" what we discussed in theory here!!!.

Hey all,

I'm sure alot of my questions have alredy been answered here, so I will read all 7 pages (when I have time). I just bought a RTR TC3 last nite. Most of the guys here in town run Nitro RS4s on a dusty asphault parking lot. Is it possible to make the TC3 keep up? If so any suggestions? Thanks in advanced...

If the Nitro cars are dialed in, and the track is more suited (size-wise) to Nitro racing, then I wouldn't expect your RTR TC3 could keep up with them.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by SilverEvader:
Hey all,

I'm sure alot of my questions have alredy been answered here, so I will read all 7 pages (when I have time). I just bought a RTR TC3 last nite. Most of the guys here in town run Nitro RS4s on a dusty asphault parking lot. Is it possible to make the TC3 keep up? If so any suggestions? Thanks in advanced...</font>

yep - I agree with Aaron.

The nitro cars are especially going to have the advantage on the straightaways.

Unless the nitro car folks are fairly good drivers, I would not recommend running your electric car with them. The reason is, if they aren't courteous drivers and also can't hold a steady line, you are going to have a very high risk of broken parts.

Are you talking about yourself again???

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by rchang:
...Unless the nitro car folks are fairly good drivers, which I'm not, I would not recommend running your electric car with them. The reason is, if they aren't courteous drivers and also can't hold a steady line, like myself, then you are going to have a very high risk of broken parts.</font>

Hardy hardy har har har! Funny boy. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/biggrin.gif

Thanks so much. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/eek.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by rchang:
Hardy hardy har har har! Funny boy. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/biggrin.gif</font>

Kinda what I figured. Just found out that I am not the only electric thats gonna be out there so I should have some fair competition, well except for them mod motors they all have.

I'm glad there's a TC3 forum!

I just got into R/C, and have a RTR TC3. I had a battery problem that is now fixed (I think they were "false peaking"). The car runs like a scalded dog, and my run time was over 10 minutes. The motor wasn't hot, and neither were the batteries.

Anyway....here's my questions:

1) The drivetrain seems to have freed itself up (the wheels are a lot easier to turn) and the car has less than 20 minutes of run time. This is normal, right? How often should I check the diffs to insure they are lubed? (or do I need to check at all?)

2) The car was "tracking" to the left (looking from the rear) when I first ran it. It wouldn't hold a straight line. (this is with NO steering input on the transmitter) I don't have a gauge, so I checked the camber using the "3X5 card" method. Both front and rear left side wheels were more like 4 degrees than 2 degrees! I adjusted the camber (again using a 3X5 card) and all four wheels are pretty darn close, now. Ran the car again last night, and it's still tracking left, though not quite as bad. BTW-If I run the car in reverse, it tracks straight. :confused:

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm new at this!

Thanks in advance!

Allen

How do the Losis do on your local tracks. I had one and the speed did not seem to match the TC3s. I sold it and kept the TC3. A couple of guys went to a track about a month after the XXXs came out there were losis everywhere. They went back a month later and there was only 1 losi running. It was the same people but they bought new FTTC3s. Now I am talking stock racing not mod. How do the cars fair in your area?

Hey all,

I just bought a Robinson Racing spur gear for me TC3 and when I went to install it I could not tget the motor out. I took out the 2 allen screws(1 with spring, 1 without) that hold down the battery clamp. At this point it appears only the motor cam(which is screwed to the motor) is the only thing left holding the motor in. Tried to pull straight up on the motor, didn't work. Tried to rock the motor side to side, while pulling up, didn't work. Am I missing something. Oh yeah I already had the pnion loose and the spur out. This is a RTR straight out the box with 2 packs run on it.

SilverEvader,

You have done all you can. At this point the cam pretty much had to have eaten a rock/pebble and the motor is stuck in it. am afraid a very strong pull, or a push from the bottom is your only chance. maybe some lube dripped into the cam and motor mount area might help too. remember to clean that out completely whe you are done!!!:mad:

Ray,

I took it back apart and used a pair of needlenose in the holes in the casing to rock it back and forth. It worked, there was a bunch of grit around the cam. I appreciate the help...:thumbsup:

Hey all I just traded for a tc3 and it was missing a couple of things.A battery strap the screws for the motor mount (and spring)and direction booklet I was wondering if anyone had the time to send me a copy of their exploded view of the chassis and parts list so I can have some views to go by.I would really appreciate it if someone could help me out:thumbsup:
Will Garner

You can download the exploded view, parts list and instruction manual from the Associated website. www.rc10.com :)

Originally posted by sheath
You can download the exploded view, parts list and instruction manual from the Associated website. www.rc10.com :)

Thanks dude I got it it took me a second to find it but i got it.:thumbsup: :hat:

I just bought a TC3 and the only steering servo I have handy is a Hitec 225. It's small and will require new mounting holes. I just question if this is strong enough for a touring car. The data sheet lists 67 oz-in. torque at 6 volts. Any thoughts??

hello ontheedge,

Dont put that servo in your car. You'll hate it and you'll also think you are having serious handling problems as you getbtter and better at driving. the reason is torque speed and what is seldom printed on less expensive servos-holding power. When you are going through a fast corner with a cheap servo, the servo cant hold the position you have asked of it at the wheel. Therfore the car wanders. Also-dont expect the plastic gears in the servo to last when (not saying you will) hit a board!!! Go and get at least a JR Z550 race servo, or a middle road Hitec or Futaba servo for now. When you are ready-get a VERY GOOD servo. One thats more than you should spend!!! Futaba 9404 or 9402, JR 8450 digital, KO or Airtronics 94357, etc.

I did exactly what you are planning 4-years ago and ended up buying everything twice!!! Cheap stuff first-qulaity stuff second. look for used good servos for now as well!!!

ray

rich beings I dont know much about the TC3 would the 605bb do it.I think it would but it sounds you know more about it.I had good luck with them in my nitro cars.
Will Garner.:thumbsup:

Can anyone answer the "rookie" questions I posted the other day? I asked about diff maintenance and the car "tracking" to one side.

(see above post titled "more rookie questions")

Thanks!

Allen:thumbsup:

TC3 Tracking....first...make sure one of the wheel nuts is not overtightened and all the bearings are free.

Next....make sure the front and rear diff's are set the same. If the rear is tighter than the front, the rear will try to overtake the front.

Also...make sure the front toe out is the same on the left and the right. Yes...I did type toe OUT....helps cars track correctly...and four wheel drive tends to pull the wheels in when under power.

See if any of this helps.

Ray,

Thanks for the help. This is a great example of the good of these posts, you just saved me a lot of potential aggravation.

Boss,

Thanks for the reply. I'm learnin'!

I'll see how it checks out.

Thanks again! Allen:thumbsup:

BigAl......that is what we are here for...including YOU! :)

Boss,

Being new to TC, what is the best way to check the diffs??? Just how critical is it to set them the same?

I am having problems keeping the rear pins in the hubs. It seems that the set screw will not tighten enough to keep the pin from moving. I installed new rear hubs and noticed that there was a thin layer of graphite that kept the set screw from actually touching the pin. Is this normal or should the graphite be drilled out? Could I use a Dremel tool and put a flat spot on the pin to keep it from coming out? Thanks for the help.

Yeah, that's a not so great part.

Before I install the hinge pin, I screw the set screw all the way in so that it pierces that thin membrane of plastic/graphite, unscrew the set screw, and then push the hinge pin in so that it knocks that membrane out.

If there is still cruft in there, use an x-acto knife to clean it out (just to cut away the threads where the set screw goes).

Then, install the hub and it should work properly.

You're such a nice guy. :D

Originally posted by rchang
Yeah, that's a not so great part.

Before I install the hinge pin, I screw the set screw all the way in so that it pierces that thin membrane of plastic/graphite, unscrew the set screw, and then push the hinge pin in so that it knocks that membrane out.

If there is still cruft in there, use an x-acto knife to clean it out (just to cut away the threads where the set screw goes).

Then, install the hub and it should work properly.

:dude:
I am having a problem with the axle bearings on my TC3. Is there any thing I should be doing differently?
Here is a run down of the car and conditions FT TC3 with all the graphite parts except the front hubs and they are the plastic versions to prevent from breaking then easily. I run the aluminum bones and graphite hex adapters. Indoor carpet, BUD”S bumper on the front. Now these bearings are going bad after maybe 5 runs and it seems to be the front that I see the most problems. This is a big expense in running this car. Now most people would jump up and suggest that I need to not hit as many boards. But I don’t think that I am that bad I mean that is something that I would understand but this is ridiculous. Anyone got any ideas???

Tracey Fogleson

That is way too fast to be losing bearings for sure!!! Make sure of one thing and that is you are using good quality nylock nuts. Use high quality or new so that you dont have to tighten them so much to keep the wheels on. Next-make sure you are using the crush sleeeves inbetween the bearings in the hubs. Also-take the hubs out of the car, but with the driveshaft, hex adapetr, etc. all attached. Do the bearings spin freely like this when new? If not-you might have bent stub-axles or a pooorly mlded hub carrier(unlikely).
IMHO-the wheel nuts are too tight. Bearings are not designed to take huge side-loads. Also-shim out most of the play between the pin and the bearing. That might help a little too.

:thumbsup:

I think you may have hit on something, I tend to tighten the wheel nut very tight to prevent them from coming off. This may have a lot to do with this problem. I have checked the axle to see if they were straight, and they look great. I do run the sleeves, but I have noticed that the roll pins are bent. Someone told me that I should use the aluminum hex adapters because they are better is this true have you found this to help?

Tracey Fogleson

Tracey - if you are going to be at Toledo this weekend, let me take a peek at your car.

The biggest thing with the bearings is keeping them free of carpet fuzz. Are you running shields on your bearings? Also, what Ray said is causes of the problem you have.

I've run the same bearings all season. I probably clean them once a month maybe. But, I check them every other run to make sure there isn't carpet fuzz accumulating between the steering knuckle and the drive hex.

Hi Tracey,

Yeah, over tightening is a problem. If you are having problems with the wheel nuts falling off, you can either thread lock them in, or else use the Trinity wheel nuts (they are shallower so the nylon locking part hits the axle better).

I run the graphite wheel hexes, so the aluminum one shouldn't matter.

-Rich


Originally posted by DriverX
:thumbsup:

I think you may have hit on something, I tend to tighten the wheel nut very tight to prevent them from coming off. This may have a lot to do with this problem. I have checked the axle to see if they were straight, and they look great. I do run the sleeves, but I have noticed that the roll pins are bent. Someone told me that I should use the aluminum hex adapters because they are better is this true have you found this to help?

Tracey Fogleson

:D ALuminum hex adapters are good, but dont know if it solve the bering problem at all. I bend my roll pins after awhile too. It's inevitable!!! They weigh a little more-but try and get steel hex nuts in the half height size (half as thick as regular nuts). If you cant find them anywhere-let me know and I'll hook-you-up.

a mind is a terrible ting???

Thanks for backing me up Mr. Chang. WHat a nice guy you!!!!

Rich I don't know if seeing the car will help I have it apart now so it prolly is not going to help but I can bring it. I am having so much fun with the 12th scale car that I may not run the TC3 until next fall but who knows.

what are you guys doing to get the free feeling in the car? I mean with the motor out of the car and spin a tire that is the free feeling that I am looking for. I think that I am closer now than before but man some of these cars just are super free. I have removed the seals from the inner tranny bearings and stuff like that but it still seems not to be where I would like it. is there anything you are doing diffrent.

Tracey Fogleson
:dude:

Hi Tracey,

Yeah, I'm done with TC until this fall. I'm just running 1/12th this Sunday, and then I am done with all electric racing until fall. Nitro nitro nitro! haha!

For freeing up the car, the big thing is the tranny cases. If the diff w/bearings is tight in the diff housings (upper and lower) then that is a lot of the problem. I had to lightly and carefully dremel out the flat edge of where the bearings rest in the upper and lower diff housings.

The basic test is, put the diff with bearings into the lower diff housing. If it slides in easy, then you are golden. If you can remove it without feeling any resistance, then you are golden. The same for the upper diff housing. If those are not the case, then you will need to break out the dremel or some sand paper.

I've seen a lot of instances where you put the diff w/bearings in the diff housing, hold the diff housing upside down (so that the diff assembly should drop out) and it is stuck in the diff housing. That's bad and causes the tranny to be bound up.

The other thing is whether all the grease that comes in the bearings has been sprayed out. I oil my bearings with either Trinity Royal Oil or Zubak Speed Lube (depends on what mood I am in, or whichever bottle is closer to me).

Rich, after you worked on the tranny cases did you then put shims in on the outdrives to take up any side to side play and how much gear mesh on the tranny gears would you use? thanks a bunch what I have done so far has made a world of diffrence.

see you sunday :cool:

Hi,

I luckily managed to do it so that I didn't have to use any shims.

However, there is nothing wrong with using shims, so if you have too much side-to-side play, then the shims can be used.

-Rich

Anyone got any preference on which bodies have any advantages???
:devil:

I'm pretty lame - all I've ever run is the Stratus bodies. I prefer the Proline Stratus since it has a lot smoother profile compared to the Andy's Stratus and Andy's Yokomo Stratus.

A lot of folks ran the Volvo body this last season and seemed to like that, too.

I personally like the HPI Cougar body.I bought it because I used to have one and I got it for looks and the "cool" factor but man was I in for a shock!It was the only body that Ive ever had that I noticed performance gains.Ive had alot of bodies over time but this one just rocks.Ill be getting another for this season.I used it on nitro but I dont know if it will be good on elec.If you want to try something different then I say go with the Cougar.

Way back over on "About", there were some posts about two (or more?) versions of "conversions" to change the rear of the TC3 to adjustable Toe-In...

Both main approaches invovled using the front A-arms, hubs, etc. on the rear, with turnbuckles tied to the chassis as "tie-rods" to adjust the toe-in. One version put the shocks on the front, one put them on the back.

It's been a long time, and I would like to see the pictures, and conversion details again. My reason is simple, I have one TC3 that still has the defective rear hubs and the LHS still has bad ones in stock... I'm tired of putting up with the weird handling and would like to "fix" it once and for all...

This is my "backup" sedan, so I've put it off until now. One key for me would be finding the new front A-arms with the additional outer shock mounting hole...

The article you are looking for is on teamrcv.com. Go to articles. Then type TC3 in the search box. That is what you are looking for.

Tom actually the so called rear toe problem in many cars isnt caused by the rear bearing carriers but the suspension mounts. Most people put one side on and then bend the other so that it fits. This causes excessive toe on one side. You basically have to bend both sides an equal amount.

Been usin the lexus. Just threw the car together after a season of oval with a "way out" setup. Car was glued to the parking lot. Gonna try a 300M next. Will let you know. BTW, the 300M is THE oval body. Unless they'll let you run Parma's dirt modified.


:lol:

So what changes do I need to make when I go from 3 deg toe in to 2 deg? Ran 0 deg on oval all winter. WAAAY fast! Want to change to 2 deg for on road in parking lot. Other than the rather large w/b change what else do I need to change?