Well I found running the posts on the tranny case gave the car a tonne of bite especially side bite,was fighting a push off power with rubber tires.

Anyway enough with the stupid rubber tires,:rolleyes:lol I was just wondering Walter do you use the posts with foams too?:confused:

Cool-let larger brains prevail!!! I'll lower the camber link and leave your set-up alone and see what it feels like!! Rich, the car is so fast right now!!! Its just a tad hairy as we discussed.

.

Well I found running the posts on the tranny case gave the car a tonne of bite especially side bite,was fighting a push off power with rubber tires.

Anyway enough with the stupid rubber tires,:rolleyes:lol I was just wondering Walter do you use the posts with foams too?:confused:

btw:

http://competitionx.com

is a great site for getting concise info on what the various suspension components of these touring cars do.

Anything I do lately doesn't help. My car is slow no matter what. Will it help if I take it off the shelf and run it? :D LoL

Of course when I got back from lunch I had a moment of doubt...sketched it out and I was right. If the inner pivot point on the arm (Chassis)is below the outer (hub), the rollcenter will be raised if you lower the inner camber link. There are exceptions, but that's pretty much the case on a TC3. I almost always have to sketch it out on paper to see what's happening.

Anyone running 200mm for parking lot racing on asphault? We have a recently repaved parking lot behind the local HobbyTown. Have been trying to run my TC3 with the 200mm kit. Just broke a front a-arm (dumpster, my fault) the other night. If anyone cares to share a setup (either 1900 or 200) for parking lot racing, I would appreciate it. Looking for all the good stuff:

oil wt
springs
camber
caster
toe-in/toe out
ride height
droop
body

You know all the goodies... Oh yeah I have to running a rear shock tower in the front as well as a anti-roll bar in the front. Biggest problem is U-turns, always spin out... TIA:thumbsup:

Dean,

I sent you an e-mail yesterday-please let me know if you got my reply to your question!!!

TO all the other Tc3 drivers-if you want a chassis milled-I am planning a run next week-so please contact me as soon as possible about them!!

Ray
rshuang@ameritech.net

Hey guys. We were talking about the 4x2 layout on the TC3 a few weeks ago. I finally got around to getting a cam and being able to post a few pics of the car im takin to the Birds. But since im new here on the forum i thought it would be good to ask how to post a pic or two of it. Im sure you would save to the hard drive and pull from there... but i havent ever done it on here before. Any tips? Any file (pic) sizes that work best? I was also reading the posts you guys were making on using standoffs on the inside camber link positions. I am assuming its the one that you attach to the tranny case? I have seen it but never had the opportunity to discuss it with anyone. What is tire wear like when using this mod? Does it add an amount of side bite worth the tire wear i can imagine it would cause to the sidewall of the tire? Again i have not done this... forgive me if i seem ignorant. LOL Thanks...

- Racer X

Racer X, to "attache" a file to your post it must be under 30K, other wise you will need to link to it from webspace. I hope that helps, could help a little more if you knew you had the pics on your HD. :)

30 k? Yikes all im gettin off my cam are 80k and above. >grr< I think if i reduce the quality of the pics.. it will solve the issue. Stay tuned... lol

- Dave

Man i have tried and tried... i cant get them small enough to fit on here. I have changed pixel quality and all that. I do know the file is uncompressed... that might be it. Oh well... if yall really wanna see it... email me at DaveWms73@comcast.net. i have a good amount of pics. Shows the 4X2 layout of the batteries, the lowered servo, relieved center brace for more torsional flex (and lower, closer to centerline mounting of weights), and the graphite removable radio tray. Anyhoo... see yas at the Birds!

- Dave

Hey man, shoot some pics to me and I will compress and post them for you. :)
jakerowley@yahoo.com

Ok jake i sent you the pics... and another friend of mine as well. I hope you can get them compressed and on the site...i think the guys might like to look at them! Again thanks for you help. :)
- Dave

Has anyone used these clicker shocks from CRC (https://www1515.boca15-verio.com/team78/web_store/web_store.cgi?page=tc3parts.html&cart_id=443280_1284160). I always have a terrible time getting the shocks to be even for viscosity so this would be a great help.

-Tim

I've been using Yokomo shock caps -- they have a hole and a screw in them which make bleeding and making the shocks equal much much easier.

It was mentioned to me recently that Yokomo has newer caps that have a bladder in them. Those would be even better in my opinion.

-Rich

I use General Silicones bladders in my shocks, I also have a hole drilled in the caps of my associated shocks...no screw or anything just a hole to let the bladder expand without any pressure build up behind it. They work amazingly well.

After breaking yet another a-arm, both after I ripped of my wing in a pile up, I'm going back to 190mm(I have more bodies for 190mm).

Any setup tips for freshly paved parking lot?

Does anybody know anything about the IRS Carbon Chassis? Good or bad?
Some people say the Hardcore Carbon chassis is not stiff enough. Does the IRS share the same porblems?

The IRS chassis seems to flex to much for carpet. Why would you want to change from the stock graphite chassis? If I were going to do anything I would move my batteries closer to the shaft.

chuck

Sorry this took me so long to post, I have been dealing w/ my fathers health issues.

TC3 Chassis (http://www.helmsfuneralhome.com/Jake/TC3/)

Can any of you guys in Michigan point out what helps to free up the Tc3 on foams? I can get my car to be decent, but i have driven a buddy's XXXS lately, and it was super free rolling in the corners.

Here's my setup in general
front
white spring
middle hole tower, inside arm, front tower
#3 70wt
upper inner camber rod
6caster (losi)
2 kickup
.063 swaybar
0 toe in

rear
purple spring
middle hole tower, outer on arm
#3 50wt
upper inner camber rod, outer on hub (losi 1/2*)
3+2 block, w/reversed losi 1/2 hubs
.055 swaybar

batteries back
mid wheel base
Parma X20
batteries moved towards center of car

Plaid purple TRC

I'm not from Michigan but I have some ideas. :D Try the 'F' block on place of the 'R' block and the R+3+0. If you are running stock, run the Losi 1 degree rear hubs reversed. These changes should help the car rotate in and off the turn better.

on my tc3 ... when i tighten the front lock nuts to the wheel the wheel does not turn freely. I was wondering what could have caused that and why this happens?

Originally posted by mattgar99
on my tc3 ... when i tighten the front lock nuts to the wheel the wheel does not turn freely. I was wondering what could have caused that and why this happens?

check the roll pins, they bend easily.
stevent

make sure you dont overtighten the wheel nuts just enough until they snug up the wheel and everything should rotate freely.

Also make sure the cylindrical spacer is in-between the two bearings in the steering knuckle.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kicasso
[B]Can any of you guys in Michigan point out what helps to free up the Tc3 on foams? I can get my car to be decent, but i have driven a buddy's XXXS lately, and it was super free rolling in the corners.

Definately the F block on the rear. I use that and R-2-0 and 1/2 degree losi hubs put on backwards (right on left and left on right). I would also try the same springs all around. I bounce between purles on front and rear to yellows all around. I am also a bit lighter on the oils (50-3 front and 40-3 rear). My shock are in the outer holes of the shock towers. Some Michigan guys have been making wider rear shock towers and standing them up even more (with lighter rear springs, though). I haven't tried this yet.

Jake, thanks for postin the pics of my car...im sorry to hear about your fathers health issues. I appreciate what you have done, and wish your fathers health to improve. :)
As far as the Snowbirds went... it was awesome. A little bit of hacking here and there... heck i doled out a few hacks myself! LOL Alot of tension and pressure there... but the sportsmanship and racing attitude was all the same. I hope to be a little more prepared next time i go! See yas!
- Dave

Thanks guys for the responses. Putting the F block in the rear gives pro squat from what i can tell, correct? This also affects toe in?

Would putting anti dive in the front also be worth trying? My friend put some anti dive in the front on his car.

thanks again

TC3 Chassis (http://www.helmsfuneralhome.com/Jake/TC3/) [/B][/QUOTE]

Hmmmm. Jake - where did this chassis configuration come from? You can still cut some material from under the motor. I wouldn't run that chassis in anything but stock class. I wonder how flexi it got.

Hamilton... its the chassis for my TC3. And belive it or not... it really doesnt flex THAT much more than a standard graphite chassis. The center area was relieved for a bit more torsional flex, and made the car a little bit easier to drive on the high bite track at the Birds. My poor performance was lack of track time, not the car. ( i posted 12.6 lap times with it... just not consistently) I only had six packs on the track... including the qualifiers and the main. My third qualifier was on pace for a fast 23 lap run... and the traffic was uncooperative to say the least. To get into the A in stock you had to have a solid 25 lap pace... and every guy in there had a list of sponsors read off at the beginning of the race. I believe with the necessary practice time put into the track, and a little more time with the cars different handling ability, it was definitely capable of a fast 24 laps. Now add the assistance of sponsored batteries and a motor tech.... and a decent driver...LOL Your statement as far as durability goes... the car took many a hard whack at the Birds... as mentioned above... traffic was unforgiving to say the least. Not a single break! Trial by fire if i do say so myself! :) Modified WOULD be interesting to try. But i would say the extra forces added to the car would make it a little bit slow to run in modified. Testing will only tell. Cyrul had a sweet graphite center brace that ran from the front and rear tranny braces that might be another alternative for more flex control... back to the drawing boards...!

- Dave

Dave,

I think your chassis is sweeeeeetttt!!!!!! And I make milled chassis for profit and i think your chassis is awesome!! Looks like it would be incredible on asphalt or rubber tires on carpet-Anywhere where a "little" bit of chassis flex makes creating grip easier!!! or at least easier to drive on the limit. Thats my one single complaint (well one of them) about the Tc3-its so fast-but its too difficult to drive the exact same line every single lap when your really , really pushing for a killer fast qualifier.

Ray

Are those changes going to help all turning or does it help more on turn in, middle, or off?

I need help getting more in the middle and off. I think with the 4 deg Losi blocks I like the turn-in, but then the car starts to push.

HELP!
SS

I think I have seen that 4 and 2 battery configuration somewhere before. Hmmmm... :confused: Where did I see that??? :confused: Hmmmm... I think... Hmmmm... Jake???

Antidive...
I like the F-0 block up front and 4 degree caster blocks. The F-0 on a high bite surface seems to smooth the car out...and let the chassis rotate a little more consistently. Of course my car is a little different too, with the chassis configuration, the weight is more balanced from right to left, and more forward. So it is going to have more initial steering coming into a corner, and i can run a little less caster. My question to you is, have you played with your bumpsteer any? What about the part of the tires you add traction too? Depending on where you add traction additive to the front tire (left right or inside) and the combination of caster you have... working in conjunction with your bumpsteer and camber, you can slightly variate the amount of steering in and out of a corner. (also the rounded edges on your tires sidewalls play a great affect on this) Of course, the rest of the car has to be close as far as your setup goes. Im talking small amounts of percentages here. Antidive seems to be more of use in Mod. Anytime you increase the amount of chassis roll and pitch as a variable in your setup, the more attention you have to pay to the actual chassis itself. (i.e. hingepin angles, driveline efficiency...regarding torque effects on angled driveline components, ease of part movement, sprung and unsprung weight, etc....) You cant always just add a stiffer spring and get the correct effect. Alot of the time its simple issues that make the car handle like poo... and we as racers are looking elsewhere for the solution. A perfect example was the track conditions at the Birds... an EXTREME amount of rubber was laid down on the track. But the oval cars travelled through some part of the TC track the opposite direction we drove. And even thought the carpet had a very short amount of pile to it, the car would be looser in those sections of the track. Even inconsistent, feeling as if the car was taking a set through the corner, only to surprisingly hit the inside line of the groove where it wasnt affected by the oval cars travelling path, and bite harder and want to pull you into the corner. Everyone was faced with the same racing conditions, so it made it fair for all. But later classes benefitted from the consistent runs from the TC's. Im just babbling here as i usually do. LOL Thanks for the compliments on the chassis Ray. I spent a few long days on that chassis with some calipers, a dremel tool and some sandpaper. I wish i had access to a milling machine and a lathe... i would have had my own car there! I have alot more pics of it if you want them. Finished and with everything mounted. I wish i had the time to make the removable radio tray flush with the chassis, but i got into crunch time and lost all of my practice time there as it is. All i can do is rework it and try again! Im gonna get off here before i babble anymore....LOL SEE YAS!

- Dave

You did that with a DREMEL??? WOW!!

I would like to nominate Dave (x racer x) as a certified Dremel God!

SS

Originally posted by Motor City Hamilton
I think I have seen that 4 and 2 battery configuration somewhere before. Hmmmm... :confused: Where did I see that??? :confused: Hmmmm... I think... Hmmmm... Jake???
LoL

Yes, I remember disucussing your car with you in lansing at the CRL. I still keep thinking about what I want to try. Dremel and the get those batts closer to the centerline or go for the 4x2? I dunno. :D

Keith do you have your chassis dremeled to get the batts in closer to the shaft?

I did make a new one in Cleveland. I still have the 4x2 split and I moved the left side batteries in toward the shaft. I don't use the back battery slot (I'm one forward)so the four leftside batteries are moved in just a little. I cut one rib (does that make sense?). There is a straight rib, then the x pattern ribs, then the rib on the other side. I just cut the straight one out, leaving the full x in the middle. The right side batteries are drawn directly across from the two front lefts and at the same width from the center as the left. I did cut out the extra crap from around the motor. I removed the battery bar mounting posts. All this cutting made me 2 ounces under weight. I added the extra 2 ounces on the right side and now have a car that is balanced to within 2 grams, left to right.

I really believe that this has made my car better. And, although some team drivers will tell me that the stock position is better - and the proof is that I'm not beating them - I saw my lap times get better. I'm not a team driver - just the average joe racer looking for more speed.

Oh - Jake - you going to make it to Jackson this weekend? We can talk more about stuff then.

Hamilton i agree. I think the 4x2 setup makes the car a heck of alot smoother. Transitions from right to left in esses are far easier to navigate on the edge. Im sure others have done the car like this...i did it from one of them late night rebuild sessions when your car is apart... and weighed the varying parts of the car on scales. Servo two cells and a motor... and four cells speedo and receiver on the other. Weight was within half an ounce of each side. But this also varies with equipment used. Heck, the amount of solder used on your batteries can make a difference... afterall...lead IS the base for solder.... I am glad to talk to someone else that has tried this setup. I was awash with alot of input at the Birds. And had few packs to dial it in. I am curious tho, if you have the batteries on the driver side moved one cell forward more, what did your car scale out on a four scale tweak board? I am totally interested in your input... heck maybe we can come up with something that makes this car really hum! LOL (as if we are better designers than Cliff Lett...!!) Anyways... i appreciate the info... i got to go and spend some time with the little lady...see yall soon.... :)

- Dave

P.S. Thanks Squirrel for the compliment... if you were serious...LOL :cool:

You could always just dremel out the entire battery area and put in a graphite battery tray that could slide fore and aft as needed to get your weight distribution 50/50 front to rear if desired. Basically make it adjustable fore and aft like on many of the newer oval cars.

I've seen it done on a TC3, so it is doable. :)

No I won't be in Jackson this weekend... :( I'm trying to get things moved around so I can make the fun run CRL in Lansing. Can't wait to see the Semi bodies in action... :D

I would like to discuss it further with you, possibly at Lichtfield, if not before. I have a couple of questions that I'd like your input on..... :)

Wassup Roger?! Josh's head gettin big? No way man! Sponsorship gettin to him huh? Rumor has it... i may return... i seen Josh and Shane over the holidays... they know im on my way. LOL I told Josh he had a few months to get his ship straight... ill be there to mop up the mess! As far as droppin your servo into the chassis, its a little long and involved, and requires removing the lower ears on your servo. Calipers are required, and a little patience with a dremel tool. I could actually send you a template in the mail, one you could trace on your chassis and make it work. At least it would give you the dimensions to cut the chassis. The rest is done by hand on the servo mounts. You have to lower them, and make sure the servo case presses against the inside of the chassis so it doesnt move left and right while being used. If you got e-mail (im sure you do) i can send you pics that let you see it upclose. But i wouldnt attempt it unless you have a spare chassis to practice on. Been cuttin chassis for a long time man. Check Jadys T3. Its my old truck and has the batteries lowered for high bite tracks as well as the servo. ( not to mention a few other camber locations for rough tracks like Deb's) Matter of fact, if you look at Jady's truck it will give you a good idea how to do it... i patterned the work on the TC3 after what i did to that T3 over 3 years ago. I am however looking forward to getting back to the big city...im tired of playin with Ma n Pa in the woods. LOL E-mail me if ya got any more questions Roger... or if you want me to send yas any info...

- Dave

I just picked up a TC3... actually traded for my TA04. It has had minimal setup done to it, it had ran only once. As of right now it has white springs & 70wt up front & purple & 50wt out back... that's it. My question... what would be a good setup for Larry's track? Camber, toe, link position, shocks position, etc. What color foams... I was thinking either plaids and purples or dbl purple and lime. I'd like a fairly easy to drive setup to get me used to the car... then step it up as I get comfortable. Also, what gearing for a P2K2? Thanks.

Okay, I'm not the greatest driver, and if we had more people racing in West Nowheresville I'd be in the B-main. But I made a setup change today that bought me a whole 'nother lap before the buzzer went...

I cinched down the front diff.

Before, the car would dive really nice into turns but would just push all day long on the way out. With the diff locked up, putting power on hauls the nose around and gets the car pointed in the right direction.

For the sake of reference, this is on a really rough and fairly high-traction parking lot.

HI Walter

I was just wondering since your rubeer tire set-up worked so well for me if you could tell me a set-up for foams.

I will be running on a 60 x 60 tight tight indoor carpet track with no sweepers and alot of 180's!And the track tends to be a little bumpy as it's not a permanent track!

Thanks if you can help me out!:thumbsup:

Front
70 wt/#2 / yellow
f+2 6* castor blocks
rear tower middle hole/ outer hole on arm
links high and long
bud's 078 sway bar
2* camber/ 1*toe out
Jaco purple orange
Rear
60 wt /#2 / copper
F block in place of r block / 3+0
middle hole on tower/ outer hole on arm
links high and long
no sway bar
2* camber
Jaco purples
Battery foward
Protoform stratus 2.0

walterhenderson... interesting you live in Gaylord. My fiancees family lives up there. I didn't know touring cars were all that big up there. I know there's a bit of an off-road crowd, but haven't heard anything about TC's. Where do you usually run? Maybe one weekend when I'm up there, I'll drop by for a looksee (if you race on weekends).

A noob question... why run a rear shock tower up front? I have heard of many people doing this, but I think a few of them (at least a few I have asked) are doing it because everyone else is and have no actual idea why. Camber link or shock placement reasons?

Shock placement -- you are able to stand the shocks up more vertical. The camber link positions are in the same spots.

However, with the new style front lower arms (have the extra shock mounting hole) you can also keep the shock angle the same as if you used the stock front shock tower and the old style lower arm, but you get better leverage since the mount point is farther out on the arm.