View Full Version : Advice for 12th scale on road racing.
11-10-2001, 10:43 PM
I am new to 12 scale racing.
Where I race is in-doors on ozite carpeting.
4 cell stock motors.
I am planning on buying an Associated Rc12L3?
Any thoughts on this car?
Any help welcomed.
11-11-2001, 12:52 AM
This car is a blast to drive. I run 5 cell stock on asphalt. Refer to the Proline/Jaco chart for tire selection.
11-11-2001, 04:48 PM
I'm running on ozite carpet also. Very tight track. Running stock setup (greens all around, 1/2 goop on front, full goop on back tires), Nissan P35 body, low ride height insert, the most restrictive pod spacer in the kit. Running an MVP (high RPM!) with light springs.
Good luck http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif
The L3 is great out of the box. Easy to set up and consistant week to week. The GM3 is the motor of choice where we race. 4499 on the + and reedy 769 on the negative, red & green spring. It's easy to tell who isn't running one.
As for tires most run greens all around but they don't last long. Purple fronts & Gray rears is a good choice if you want tires to last longer but they cost more. They aren't as responsive as greens but they work good.
Good Luck! 1/12th is FUN http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/biggrin.gif!
11-15-2001, 10:47 PM
What is the best servo for 12th scale?
11-20-2001, 10:56 AM
KO's mini servo is unreal, but super fast and expensive ($90.00)!!! I use Air 94145 and love it (as do a lot of pros), but others have trouble with them centering. Mine centers just fine.I gave up my 12L3 for a Speedmerchant and I like it better, though a 12L3 is a good car. Tweak plate or tweak springs, its your choice.
30 plus ounces of torque is sufficient and 0.07 sec. or less to 60 degrees is exceptional. You need at least 30 oz. torque and 0.09 sec. to 60.
[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 11-20-2001).]
11-20-2001, 11:22 AM
Standard universally accepted 12L3 set up for Ozite is as follows.
Purple fronts (sauce for steering amount).
018 or 020 front springs
1 degree toe out 1.5 degree of camber
ride height determned by bumps
Stock caster setting
Arms on chassis-cut tires to get rideheight.
30 wt. oil in VCS shock, grn, red, blue etc. spring (in other words-any of the medium to med. stiff springs).
Set damper plate with light tension and keep it clean. A very light coat of lube.
069 to 074 tweak plates (buy a bunch of them, they are not what they say on the package!!!)
Stiffer the plate, the more steering, but more twitchy. Use all three screws if you hit stuff or youll stress crack a t-plate every weekend, then it wont work right!!!
Grey rears sauced full always. Rear level w/ front or a little lower to smooth out steering.
I hope this helps.
11-20-2001, 05:50 PM
Thanks for all the help!
11-20-2001, 06:08 PM
No problem, now go get a Rev.3!!! :P hahahaha!!! Actually both a friend and I have used 12L3's for sale with lots of spares. If your interested, drop me a line and I'll get abhold of him. We will be racing the Champss this week, so dont expect to hear from us anytime this week though.
12-03-2001, 11:30 PM
Ok, so I have bought a 12L3.
What is the best way to set tweak?
Notch the rear pod with an exacto knife.
Put the notch at the center of the CAR, not the center of the rear pod.
Put the car on a flat surface and with an exacto in the notch, lift the rear. Both rear wheels should lift at the same time.
Hope this helps http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif.
12-04-2001, 01:51 PM
Wow, wrote a long post adding on to john's reply, and poof, its gone. BUMMER!!!!!
You can set tweak on a tweak station (like Niftech's or MIP's (must shorten MIP's to work best)).
1. To start from scratch: Loosen both tweak screws till rear pod can flop a "little" side to side. Evenly tighten both screws till they just make contact with chassis and the rear pod sits level with main chassis (when viewed underneath and looking front to back).
2. Attach a transponder and set car on tweak board and tap VCS shock where it attaches to rear pod, and tap on the servo to set front and rear suspension (very important you do this EVERY time!!).
3. Whatever side the bubble is on is the light side. Tighten the tweak screw opposite the light side and loosen the tweak screw on the light side "equal amounts".
Keeep doing this till bubble sits in the middle.
4. Run it!!!! If when hitting the throttle out of slow turns and the car pulls slightly one way, even though car is perfect on tweak board, check these three things. One, just give a slight tightening of tweak screw to the direction it is pulling (making sure to loosen other side) or two check for uneven tire sizes and re-tweak and last, check diff. It may be really tight. This combined with a slight chassis imbalance and you have a car that wont accelerate straight.
One last note: The car will veer to the direction with the less weighted front tire. So even though tweaking a car is a must, dont be afraid top make a change to the car on what you feel on the track!!!!
Also, tweak the car everytime you change batteries, motor, gearing, suspension. It may help you find a backing off screw in T-plate, something cracked, etc!!!!
Hope this helps, http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/biggrin.gif
12-04-2001, 10:13 PM
I set tweek in a cheaper way, it only cost 50 cents!! Anyways.. I put a quarter on each of the front tires, (making sure there both in the same spot), Then i lift the front of the car with a wrench from the middle of the chassis, in front. Whichever quarter falls off first I tighten down the tweek screw on that side.
Also.. I use purple/grey tires. 0.78 T-plate, with a green spring and 40 weight oil. Try different lubes on the plates to find one you like.
[This message has been edited by Ted Flack (edited 12-04-2001).]
12-08-2001, 11:27 AM
Today will be my first experience in 12th scale.
With advice from all above, I will let everyone know how I did.
Well it's easy to know when you're getting good in 1/12th scale road course:
When your electronics aren't flopping around in your car after a heat http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/biggrin.gif!
Have Fun! 1/12th is GREAT!
Where do you race at?
12-09-2001, 02:26 AM
Man, what great fun!!!!!
Won all three of the heat races.
TQ'd with 37 laps at 8:01.
There were only four of us racing. Other's did not make it tonight. Our best racer was also not there.
I came in second. Not bad for my first time out.
Were I lost it I believe was not gearing up in the main. Started at a rollout of 42.0. Ran all four races with the same gear ratio 96/28. After the race I checked my rollout and it was down to 40.0. If I figured everything correctly I believe that I should have been using a 32 tooth pinion. So I was off speed in the main by 4 teeth!
I race in Knoxville, Tennessee.
I also can't believe that I did not break anything.
Now only if I could get my touring car to run this good.
12-10-2001, 12:50 PM
RunninFree- when I sold someone my TC3, which I raced for a year, he won first time out with it. Now I sold you a 12th scale car that I built and you TQ'd with it!!!! Hmmmmm... http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/rolleyes.gif Hahahaha!!!!! My cars are always faster with someone else driving them!!!!
12-10-2001, 12:52 PM
Not seeing your track, your rolout seems to be real close at 42 (1.65")!!!!
12-10-2001, 06:47 PM
Do you keep rollout the same with say two different motors?
Motor 1: 20,000 rpm.
Motor 2: 18,000 rpm.
How would you go about figuring gearing?
12-10-2001, 11:47 PM
Divide the rpm by the gear ratio and you get a #. Then divide the other motors rpm by the # you got in the first sentence, you will get the gear ratio to run with the other motor.
12-24-2001, 02:01 PM
All right got some new wheels and tires.
What is the best way to lower the front ride height?
I remember from my old 10LSS, I had some tree hole shims to use. I have no idea where they are. Is this still the bese way?
Does Associated still make them? If so does anybody know the part number?
12-24-2001, 06:26 PM
I use the aluminum washers from Associated. Any washer will work if you can't find the plastic spacers.
[This message has been edited by Ted Flack (edited 12-24-2001).]
01-30-2002, 08:25 PM
Vodo-here you go.
01-30-2002, 10:29 PM
Hey thanks a lot.
Can someone give me some basics for carpet road and oval???
02-03-2002, 02:12 AM
What guage of wire do you use?
Our local "fast" racer uses 16 guage. Says that 12 guage can cause "tweaking" of the car - to ridgid.
What do you think?
Man I am getting out horsepowered here lately.
What motors are you running? What springs and brushes?
Also, I have picked up glitch. Someone said that using a Novak receiver on graphite is a no no. Has anyone else had problems usings a Novak receiver?
Thanks for any answers!
02-04-2002, 10:46 AM
16 gauge is fine. Especially running stock. Run the wires in such a way that they have virtually no effect on pod movement AND does not get hit by the body on top. If the wires are being pressed down by the body, then it is probably pressing down on your pod, tweaking the car. I use a little longer wire than you would think is neccesary, but it is run-low and makes a gradual curve to the motor tabs.
Glitching is the WORST!!!! Stand up the reciever with crsytal up, make sure antennae is not touching anything but fiberglass.Use two layers of tape if you need to. Replace crystals if the car took a big hit, then started to glitch. Replace or add caps on motors. Replace motor if it arcs a lot.
Brushes and springs.... E's or 767's with blue or green springs. If blue springs-dont hit anything!!!! You'll hang a brush. Dont be afraid to gear way up or down for a qualifier. Maybe your just in la la land on gearing.
Motors. I am an Epic motor fan. P2K, P2K2, Paradox's are my favorites. Experiment with brushes, springs and cut the heck out of brushes till you find something you like!!!
[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 02-04-2002).]
RunninFree- The fastest motor for 4 cell 1/12th at our track is the GM3 with either Trinity 4499's (E's) or Reedy 769's.
Red spring on +, green on -.
02-19-2002, 05:34 AM
Thanks for everyones help!
Next question. What traction sauce does everyone use?
02-19-2002, 09:14 AM
Paragon is da sauce of choice.
If the track doesn't allow paragon, I'll use TQ-8. And, if the track also doesn't allow TQ products, then I don't race there. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by rchang (edited 02-19-2002).]
What rchang said!! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif.
They banned Paragon at our track...too many watering eyes on the stand http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/frown.gif.
02-19-2002, 01:41 PM
It's not the paragon that makes the eyes water, it is trying not to blink for 8 mins. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Xpressman:
It's not the paragon that makes the eyes water, it is trying not to blink for 8 mins. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/smile.gif</font>
03-01-2002, 05:02 AM
Thinking of getting a 4-cell 1/12 car. I am considering either a CRC Carpet Knife 4-cell or a Trinity SB 4cell. Any comments? How are these cars handle comparing to a 6 cell chassis car? I am now running a Trinity SB 6 cell and an Assoc 12L2. And I usually race on asphalt.
Thanks in advance.
vhmlaw - My son switched from the 6 cell SB to the new 4 cell version of the SB and he is faster with it. He likes it better compared to the "older one". This is on carpet though. He won't let me drive the new one so i can't tell you first hand http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/frown.gif I can only say the 6 cell one was/is sweet!
Trinity sells a conversion kit to change your 6 cell to the 4 cell... save yourself a few $. Many of the parts that fit the "old" fit the "new".
03-01-2002, 01:21 PM
I have a Bloody Knife and my brother has the Trinity 6-cell car. I think the CRC car has alot more steering and feels like it wants to be driven hard. It also has alot of steering that doesn't seam to always be there on the Trinity. I have driven the new Trinity 4-cell car and I like it. Not as mush as my CRC just because I don't want to make myself feel bad. I think the Trinity car is also cheaper then the CRC car. It really comes down to personal prefence.
03-01-2002, 02:41 PM
Right in the middle of the CRC and SB12 is the Rev.3 I think. The SB's have a comfortable push to them. The CRC I hear turns very hard. The Speedmerchant Rev.3 has a lot of steering, but isn't as aggressive as the CRC. That is from what I have "heard" though. On a smooth, high-bite surface the Rev.3 is very-very fast!!! It takes a little more set-up work to get them to work on a bumpy track.
03-04-2002, 05:57 AM
Thank you all for the input. I guess I will get a 4 cell conversion kit for my SB first to see whether the 4 cell chassis really make a difference. Where do u guys get your CRC Carpet Knifies? I find ordering from CRC directly is often fairly expensive.
03-04-2002, 06:02 AM
How often do u guys replace your T-plate? My friend suggests me to replace the T-plate every 25-30 runs. Cause he says it will lose the flex after a while.
03-04-2002, 11:02 AM
I bought my CK from my local hobby shop. Most of the hobby shops here (Columbus Ohio
) carry it. You might be able to order it through a local shop for lower than direct from CRC.
03-04-2002, 01:03 PM
I ran my Rev.3 last weekend in mod and didnt change the set-up all from stock!!! The only change was putting more traction compound on the fronts (from my usual 1/2 to 3/4 to 7/8th). Car was FAST!!! There were three big bumps and the car caught air, but was still driveble!!! The SB12's, 12L3, CRC's were all catching air so maybe I was wrong about the whole Rev.3 being harder to set-up over bumps thing!!!
On the T-plates.... if you re still hitting things pretty hard and pretty often (dont answer that-its nothing personal) then change the t-plate every two races or if you see the corners of the t-plate turning a whiter color. Once you see the fiberglass turn white-the bar is toast. If you cant tweak the car correctly no matter what you do-change the t-plate. If all else is good, but the car wont return to center out of turns-replace. Basically the t-plate has to be good for the car to work, so replace it often. Actually when I ran a 12L3 I would sometimes pull off a good t-plate and keep it as a good spare and put on another one of equal thickness. I would pull the whole t-plate assembly as well. Pivot balls, cups, tweak screws, etc. and build a new one and install it. Its not expensive to do, but can save your butt at a track!!!! Hope that helps!!!
03-04-2002, 04:43 PM
MaShaun, is there a place to race 12th scale (or touring cars, etc.) on foam tires and carpet in Columbus this summer?? Some of us Clevelanders want to run on carpet as well as gas racing this summer.
03-04-2002, 06:28 PM
As far as I know the only place near here is Zanesville Y-City Hobby. (45 minute drive east) where I go to race and from what I hear it becomes quite low numbers on race day during the summer due to outdoor on-road at Hilliard. So even though theres no 12th scale in Hilliard the 12th scale racing seems to suffer from everyone taking out their touring cars. Personally I'd love to see a large group of people racing 12th scale carpet during the summer. I'd much rather be indoors than roasting in the sun.
03-05-2002, 12:53 PM
Maybe-just maybe once or twice this summer we can get enough people from Cleveland and Columbus to gather one or two Sundays this summer at Y-City hobbies. I am sure they would set-us up a road course if we came in numbers!!! I used to race a big bicycle race in Zanesville (A to Z classic). But that was many moons ago!!!!
03-05-2002, 01:55 PM
Ray - I was looking at your post about running mod and discussed it with Chief Speedmerchant last night. We think you are doing great. We also think that the REV3 is the best secret out there. It should be incredible in 1/12 mod because of its flexibility, even over bumps. It should only take some work with the center shock and spring to find the best way over the bumps and away you go. The t-bar has limitations and can't be tuned for every condition. Will I see you in Indy this weekend?
03-05-2002, 02:45 PM
Thanks!!! I really , really like running 12th mod. Its so much fun. The best part is (though it kills runtime) is when you need to get up to someone quick so your in a position to pass at the right corner-you just give the trigger a little squeeze and BAM-right on there behind!!!! Its the lazy mans method-but its a lot easier than in stock!!! hahahaha!!!! BTW-I love 12th anything actually!!!
No Indy for me. We just had a baby three weeks ago!!! Time and funds are gone, but well woth it!!! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/tongue.gif Good luck to you though!!!
03-05-2002, 03:31 PM
As far as I know the track will be open even if no racers show up. Its inside a hobby shop. This would give us a great chance to sync up enough people to pick some weekends to race out there.
03-05-2002, 03:52 PM
I was very close to selling my Rev.3 to buy all 100% new late summer, but I may just hold on to it to run at Zanesville once in awhile. What the heck-Mod 12th and a stock 12th car!!! Its only money!!!
03-05-2002, 07:48 PM
If you want more information about the track their website is http://www.ycityhobby.com
03-13-2002, 04:12 PM
i haveno idea what i am getting into..i just bought a switchblade 1/12th scale..what hop-ups do i need..what tires do i buy, what servo do i use..speed control..? oh hell..i am in trouble..i am 1/8th scale buggy racer, now i am in over my head with a little bitty electric car..jesus, now i gotta buy batteries and a charger..
how do you set on of these little things up? i have no carpet tracks here, only a asphalt track..what am i gonna dooo....?
please help me...:eek:
03-13-2002, 04:31 PM
KO PDS-947 FET
Futaba 9604 (???)
All very good servos.
Hop-ups are not needed on a 12th scale car. If you want to spend big-bucks get a Niftech or IRS axle.
For outdoors-I think you use TRC Grey rear tires and TRC Pink or Magenta fronts.
Speed controls are: Novak Cyclone or Atom. LRP Quantum Sport or Competition. GM V12 and the little Keyence are also good I hear.
I can get you hooked up on chargers, tires, batteries, etc from myself and friends if you like. Our 12th scale season is over here in Cleveland so we all have tons of stuff!!!! hahaha!!!!
I cant give you a good set-up, but this I can tell you. The little cars need to border on perfection!!! Just make sure nothing binds and the car is not tweaked at all.
I love driving 12th scale!!! 8-miunte heats are cool too!!!!
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