Yeah, strapping tape really isn't that bad. Just do it so that the tape ends are at the top of the batteries. That way, you just undo the tape, pull out the batteries, strap in new batteries, and put a small piece of tape to hold the ends down if they have lost their stickiness.

That way you don't have to keep feeding the tape through the chassis and 'wasting' your tape.

-Rich

First i must thank all of you for your helpful idea's, but i was set on not using tape so this is what i did.....

after 2 days of thinking and asking questions i finally musterd up some kind of engineering of my own, I used a graphite battery bar from a xxxt, cut it shorter so that it just fit between the two rear body mount posts.... i then drilled holes on each end of the battery bar and slid it down the post so that it held the batterys snug...then drilled a hole in each post, and put a body clip in to hold the battery bar down......the battery bar clears the rear shock at all pivot points, and it is not so snug that it is tweeking the chasis........NOW, just need to race test it....:D
thanks guys, tony (aka mr. clean)

Well, hey now.... I guess if it works maybe you should patent your idea and sell it back to Associated! Or.. you could have simply bought a Calandra Carpet Knife!!

hey yeah, anyone that uses my idea send all checks payable to tony raison....he he;)

besides the carpet knife i was going to buy was sold out from underneith me,,, actually, it was right in front of me wasn't it..;)
I think i like the L3 a little more anyway :D

Originally posted by mxatv151
hey yeah, anyone that uses my idea send all checks payable to tony raison....he he;) And I supposed you expect us to sign our names to these checks too don't you?

That should work okay tony. the only problem I can see is if the bar is loose enough to let the batteries "wiggle" around on the chassis. What you might want to do if that happens is get yourself some little pieces of soft foam to place between the battery hold down and the battery itself. Just a thought.

actually the battery bar already has foam on it, and i rapped the batterys w/ a piece of tape around each 2 cells, just to make sure they stay togeather....

Sweeeet now the last test will be when you plow into the boards at full speed. If that happens and the battery stays still you know it is all good. And trust me these little puppies can hit the boards pretty darn hard. I seen where people have hit so hard that their speedo and reciever came loose from there servo tape.:eek: OUCH

Originally posted by psycho02
I seen where people have hit so hard that their speedo and reciever came loose from there servo tape.:eek: OUCH And believe me, Ken knows what he's talking about. After all, those cars that hit the boards that hard were probably sitting on his hood and getting a "little" push, if you get where I'm coming from!!!

Only you Johnny boy only you.

Originally posted by psycho02
Only you Johnny boy only you. Well, after your post on our thread, I had to throw something back your way! Besides... does the truth hurt??????

no way johnny throw it all at me bubba the truth is that i am a very clean 12th scale driver.

Originally posted by psycho02
no way johnny throw it all at me bubba the truth is that i am a very clean 12th scale driver. What the he77 does taking a shower before coming to the track have to do with anything???

ha ha ha john but you know what i mean. the sad thing is that i don't have my 12th scale batteries yet.

Actually NOT taking a shower before going to the races can make you a better driver.... well not really, but if you reek badly enough then the other guys will find it hard to drive wth one hand holding their nose, or their eyes watering...:D :D LOL

Its been a while since I used my carpet knife..
Whats some average gearing for a 100 tooth spur with this car on a fairly tight technical track?
Thanks
MaShaun

depends on the motor your running

....Hi all....
You have a brand new "Newbie" here! Am trying to figure out how to post in the right spot here! well here goes...

I have raced Off Road and TC3 Stock Class here in Colorado.
I am making the jump to the pan car class! I just put together a Associated rc12L3. I have read numerous postings on here. wow you guys are great for Info! Thanks to one and all!

Ok here's my question:
I have seen numerous postings on "Damper Plates" and how to keep the tension light and have a "very light coat of Lube".
I have not seen this in the great and powerful Manual that comes with the car. Is this something new? How much tension? What kind of Lube?

Thanks ahead of time for your responses...

Doug

Ok.. since I wasn't specific enough

P2K2 Pro motor
I'm not looking for the "all answer" I just can't remember ballpark ratio's its been so long

:confused: Everyone must be racing?

mashaun with out knowing your tire dia. and roughly the size of the track it will be hard to give you an appropriate answer a little more info and i might be able to help

With 1.90" rear tires, start with a 29 tooth pinion. That's a safe place to start. If you find you have too much/enough rip out of the corners and not enough straight away speed, then gear up. Keep going up until you feel you have a good balance of straight away speed and acceleration out of the corner. Once you find a good gearing, work out your ratio and then adjust your pinion selection as your tire size decreases.

-Rich


Originally posted by MaShaun
Its been a while since I used my carpet knife..
Whats some average gearing for a 100 tooth spur with this car on a fairly tight technical track?
Thanks
MaShaun

Are there any advantages to running a large spur / pinion combo , -vs- a smaller spur / pinion combo with the same size tire and the same (well almost) rollout ? :confused:

I'm not an expert on this topic.

From what I've experienced and what I've also been told in discussions with other folks at the track, the gearing ratio is the same using your above scenario.

What it does affect is the position of the motor can. A larger spur means you will run a smaller pinion and the motor will be closer to the front of the car (farther from the rear axle). A smaller spur means the motor will be closer to the rear of the car (close to the rear axle).

So, that affects your weight distribution (especially over the rear tires).

Personally, I'm not sure I've ever really felt a difference... With my 12L I didn't have much room to move the can and was maxing out with a 100 tooth spur. However, with my Speedmerchant I am finding I have a LOT of room to move the motor fore. So, I'm tempted to put on a bigger spur (I currently run a 100 spur).


-Rich

This is what AE says off of their web site about this topic:

What is the advantage or disadvantage of using a larger pinion and spur to achieve the same final/overall gear ratio?

For instance, on the 48 pitch gears:
69/23 = 7.50
72/24 = 7.50
75/25 = 7.50.

With the smaller spur it will spool up faster, meaning the motor will get to speed faster and with the larger spur, it will have more torque.



So, there are two differing views on that. I don't know which is "more correct."

Fred Baumgartner was one of the folks that I was discussing this with, so I'll try and get him on here to explain what he told me.

-Rich

Generally, a gear ratio is a gear ratio. The mechanical advantage on the motor is the same for any given rollout. The idea that running a larger or smaller gear giving more or less punch given the same ratio is a load of pooh. Yes, larger gears are generally more efficient but, you'll never be able to feel the difference.

On a pan car (12th or 10th) the bigger gear moves the motor foreward in the car. This is what everyone's feeling on the car. Weight distribution, leverage of the sprung motor weight (closer to the t-bar), and the weight transfer are much larger factors in what you're feeling on the track.

I've spoken to a few of the other engineers here at work and the response varried from laughter to a long drawn out equation with the reply of "not much if any". Fact is there is a little going on with the bigger spur gears but not as much as the variation of gear mesh each time you set the motor.

Ok , thanks guys , there goes that idea .lol
makes sense now :rolleyes: I went to the 94 spur on my 12L cause the 100 was max also. I ran 94 / 29 sun. with 1.9" tires = 1.83 rollout you think thats to tall for Larrys ? I'm clamped the last 5 min. and it seems to scrub alot of corner speed , and I try to drive a smooth line . check it out on friday. BOB

Thanks everyone for the info.. looks like I was pretty close to the right gearing with that rollout. Reason I wasnt too concerned about rollout was that I was more worried about cooking my motor but it looks like I'm ok..

Hi Bob - I watched your car a little bit this last week. Your car looked to have a good amount of overall speed. You are losing a lot of your lap time mainly b/c your car doesn't turn. :( And, b/c your car doesn't turn, you probably have a lot of steering throw and hence why you are scrubbing a lot of speed in the corner (and why you are dumping your batteries quicker).

I'm just racing sedan this Friday, so I'll have more 'free time.' So, if it is okay with you, let me do a quick rebuild of your car. I'm not sure what time you can get to the track, but I'm hoping to be there around 2:00p.

-Rich

Nah, our 1/12ths are pretty light so your risk of roasting a motor in 1/12th is a lot less than in TC.

The motor at most will just get really hot and you'll dump your batteries quicker.

-Rich


Originally posted by MaShaun
Thanks everyone for the info.. looks like I was pretty close to the right gearing with that rollout. Reason I wasnt too concerned about rollout was that I was more worried about cooking my motor but it looks like I'm ok..

"I'm just racing sedan this Friday, so I'll have more 'free time.' So, if it is okay with you, let me do a quick rebuild of your car. I'm not sure what time you can get to the track, but I'm hoping to be there around 2:00p."
-Rich [/B][/QUOTE]

Bob, I hope to be there about 3:00 so between Rich and I we could really screw up your car! I think it will be one class for me this week, not sure which one yet.

Ted

Oh yes indeed! We can definitely mess up that little car. :lol: We'll tag-team like in the WWF.

Hey thanks Rich and Ted ,
I can leave out at like 3pm. so with traffic and all .........hope I can make it there by 4:30 - 5 .
The overall speed seems OK , are you guys sauceing the front tires full ? I'm doing half front and full rear. Maybe my servo is to slow?
Check it out on friday I'd really appreciate it . I dont seem to be dumping with the 3300s and a 5 amp @ 5 volts motor . But I still need a stronger motor as I dont think this one will make it thru tech. ( no tag on the arm , and no taper on the shaft ) ( OLD green machine "Fast ones " ) it was given to me .
"Racing on a budget " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob :thumbsup:

OH YEAH ,, Rich........... its now the WW "E" .:p

Will the thinner T plate cause my car to turn better?

Nope. Thinner t-bar puts more weight on the rear wheels and gives less steering. Maybe try thicker lube on the rear top plates? Then go to the front of the car and mess around. Do you want more turn-in or more out?

Turn in - more castor (2 to 4 degrees)and/or less camber (-1.0 or -1.5 degrees).

More steering out - less castor (0 to 2 degrees) and/or more camber (-1.5 to -2.5 degrees).

Also, maybe dope full front and only 3/4 rear, if you really need that much more?

If that doesn't work, try letting off the gas, once in a while. :)

Oh, hey... two more.

Make sure you run 3 screws in the rear pod/t-plate. That will give less rear.

And, maybe put a thin washer under the front t-plate screw. That will also give more front.

There... you should be spinning out in no time. :)

OK heres my setup so you all know ahead of time:
purple front 1/2 sauced
grey rears full sauce
94/ 29 with a 1.9 tire = 1.83 rollout, 4 diff balls in HPI spur gear.I
old GM with 4499 s shaved edge pulling 5 amps at 5 volts
thick T plate 2 screws thru plate
ass. silicon grease on the dampner
I loosened the t plate pivots for smooth action ( per Rich )
about .010 -.020" end play on rear axle .
3mm ride height rear , just slightly more in the front( could this be my problem ?) maybe 3.5mm.
cyclone esc
3300s & 3000s
10 degree front mounts shim on each side for the 4 - 2 caster
1.0 neg camber
0 toe
30 wt in shock w/ kit spring gold? I shortened the shock cups to allow some slight droop in the rear pod.
kit front springs .018"
also I'm running a hobbyco (yuk) servo and its like .12 time ( not fast enough)? I've never spun out , but with Greens F/R I did traction roll,..............thanksagain Bob
:roll:

I always ran the nose lower than the rear. I'd put the front at 3mm and the rear slightly higher. Less air gets under the chassis and more weight is distributed to the front. Try that and maybe a shim under the front t-bar screw.

The rest sounds pretty good except for that HPI gear. I would throw that out and get a Kymbrough. HPI gears don't seem to be that true - slightly out-of round. And put all of the diff balls in it. You don't gain an advantage by putting more pressure on fewer diff balls.

Oh yeah ..... and if I let off for the corner s i lose alot of momentum , so I'm pretty much clamped the whole time except to get outta Richs ( and everyone elses ) way. or if I get off line .
Could it be its stuck TOO good and its just sucked down speed in the corners ?
I would really like to make this thing fast before the CRL race so I won't be in like "G " main with Greg.
Bob :devil:

Hi Bob,

Part of your turning problem is your front springs. The traction at Larry's came up a lot last Friday. So, you will either want .020" or .022" front springs. If you can pick some up before Friday, that would be cool. Otherwise, I have some you can have.

The other is the T-plate. Like Keith suggested, running 3 screws will be much better. That will help free up the rear of the car.

Your front tires are also not sauced enough (in my opinion). When I ran the 12L I pretty much doped 90% of the inside of the front tires (especially with running purple fronts).

I also ran at least -1 deg toe-out.

With these 1/12ths, you need them to cut-in to the corner pretty good. The front springs, toe, center shock play a big role in that.

For the center spring, I normally ran the green spring. I think gold might be too stiff for you.

We'll get the car set on Friday. :) If you don't like the way it feels after that, we can adjust from there.

-Rich

Originally posted by rcsilly
OK heres my setup so you all know ahead of time:
purple front 1/2 sauced
grey rears full sauce
94/ 29 with a 1.9 tire = 1.83 rollout, 4 diff balls in HPI spur gear.I
old GM with 4499 s shaved edge pulling 5 amps at 5 volts
thick T plate 2 screws thru plate
ass. silicon grease on the dampner
I loosened the t plate pivots for smooth action ( per Rich )
about .010 -.020" end play on rear axle .
3mm ride height rear , just slightly more in the front( could this be my problem ?) maybe 3.5mm.
cyclone esc
3300s & 3000s
10 degree front mounts shim on each side for the 4 - 2 caster
1.0 neg camber
0 toe
30 wt in shock w/ kit spring gold? I shortened the shock cups to allow some slight droop in the rear pod.
kit front springs .018"
also I'm running a hobbyco (yuk) servo and its like .12 time ( not fast enough)? I've never spun out , but with Greens F/R I did traction roll,..............thanksagain Bob
:roll:

My bet is that the sides of your car are dragging in the corners. Check the sides, under the back corner of the batter slots. Is there any rubber build-up on the bottom of the chassis, there? If so, you're too low.

Damn, and I just sold all of my 12th scale stuff. You are making me miss it. I raced it for 20 years.

OK , I found some washers to use as shims under the plate , they are .024" thick . use 1 under the front plate pivot right .
I need to have someone cut my front tires down .they are coned like .020" outside to inside,and the left is .025" smaller than the right ( guess I shoulda swapped them more often). I'm running 1 (READ 4)washer under the front mounts I would like to remove them and run a smaller tire , and maintain 3mm. Willies truer doesnt have 1/12th adapters and the truer at Larrys is not working so I'm told.
I've got some Kimbrough gears , just thought 4 balls - vs - 6 = less rotating weight ?
Also the rear height adjusters /bearings, fit very tight and I read in one of Joshs posts about opening up the holes & getting the inserts and the bearing to fit easier, and not possibly causing the bearing to bind , so I'll work on that too.
OK ...... 3mm front
3.5mm rear
shim frt T mount
open up rear adj./brg holes

I will try that , time to get started
Thanks again Keith........... Bob

rcsilly -
Motor city is right about your diff balls, include all of them. your diff setup also affects your handling.

A tight diff will cause your car to push, for failure to rotate in the rear.

A loose diff will cause excess slippage, poor acceleration and or poor handling in the corners.

So take time to find the balance, it will only take a few moments.:)

Keith, I have TONS of corally stuff, including one new car, and teh brand new car and a ton of tires on top of what me and Brian got from you a couple of years ago... I'm sure we can work smething out...

Oh, and is anyone else needs anything Corally, let me knwo, I have like 20 years worth of stuff I'm looking to get rid of...

Bob, it seems that over the years teh ride height adjusters have been slightly increasing on size... I have some of the really old white ones off my original 10L and they fit perfectly! just a little trimming of the edges on the block and you should be all set, either use the Samurai dremel, sandpaper, or a exacto... Caution, requires a steady hand... ha ha :devil:

Yeahhhh I made 100 posts,
Ok Rich thanks ,it did seem alot better traction fri than last week.
I'll try to find the spacer for the 3rd T plate screw. I dont think my kit had 3 , among other missing parts ,tweek screws etc.
. Ok heavier front springs
softer rear spring
toe out
6 balls back in the diff
macdwnlw : I have tried adjusting the diff to where it is as loose as not to loose forward bite and it seemed to help in the corners.
MCH : I see just a hint of rubber on the left edge of the chassis, and a little on the leading edge of the T plate , gotta go up a little.
"STILL SEARCHING" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BOB

you might want to radius the edge of the chassis so teh edge will slide on the carpet instead of digging in, remember, 1/12th ride height for the CRL is 3mm....

Bob, just find an old T-bar and slice off and throw away the section that the pivot ball holders go into. You can then just use the left over section as your spacer between the T-bar and the rear pod plate.

Oh, don't bother building your diff before Friday. I'll show you some tricks for that. :)

-Rich



Originally posted by rcsilly
Yeahhhh I made 100 posts,
Ok Rich thanks ,it did seem alot better traction fri than last week.
I'll try to find the spacer for the 3rd T plate screw.

Greg -
Any chassis contact with the track should be avoided.