I just love corvetts and I use to race nitro trucks.
:thumbsup:

Howdy to all...

I have found I really like the Orion Core stock motor for my RC12L3, "BUT".... problem is.. It is a pain to remove and replace. The P2K Pro has the "flat" area on the can to make it easy to remove and replace.

The Orion Core is completely ROUND! Therefore I find I have to remove the rear axle to replace this motor.

Has anyone else out there come across this problem?

Thanks,

Doug

Hey,

Has anyone heard of "Captain Jack" ? Comes in a Silver/Purple can.

There is a new indoor Carpet track, it is the only stuff they allow.

Everyone is sold out of the stuff.

Any leads?

Doug

It's called Jack the Gripper. Corally produces it. YOu should be able to get it from you local hobby shop. If not you may be able to get it from Superior Hobbies.

Hey NT...

Thanks... I sit corrected.

Hi guys
as far as the motor not fitting in 12l3 it is typical.
all of the other reedy motors and trinity motors either have a
flat spot in the can (trinity) or a notch cut in the can(reedy TI,
MVP) as far as the orion motor goes, you have to pull the top plate off(as you probably already know) In 12th scale that usually isnt a very competative motor anyway.At least not in the midwest.
thanks
Mo

Well I do have a P2K Pro, I wanted to see how this Orion Core does. I will let ya know.

Whew, little nervous, first indor race for me this morning, I better get on the road.

D

Just thought I'd bring this thread back up to the top.

We're starting a 1/12 scale class in our area in a couple weeks, and it looks like we're going to have at least a B main on the first night. Huge interest so far in our local area, and we haven't even run yet. We'll be running on brand new ozite. Track is about 60x25 feet, I believe. Should be pretty tight and technical.

Most of us will be running carpet knives or 12L3's.

Myself and a couple of friends bought carpet knives. We're fairly happy with quality of the kit, but we still have a few issues.

The diff:

The diagrams show three belville washers. We ALL only recieved one washer. Mine is assembled with only the one, and the diff feels great. Very smooth, and doesn't feel like it will slip any. Will there be a problem with running only one?

One of my friends didn't recieve the hub spacer. It seems whoever packs these boxes at CRC needs to pay a bit more attention.

Axle came with two shims. These aren't shown in the diagrams or mentioned in the instructions. Do we need them? Where?

left hub: It's unclear in the directions which way this goes on the axle. I know one way is right, and the other is wrong, but that's all I know.

The front end:

It seems everyone has this problem to various degrees. Jaco rims drag against the front end when assembled as directed. I had to add two front end shims per axle so the wheels don't drag. This works ok, but it barely leaves enough threads exposed on the axles for the nut to be secure. It's barely threading far enough to reach the nylon insert in the nut. Losing a wheel during a race is one of the lamest ways to lose. I'd rather my poor driving take care of that. ;)

Enough with the issues....



I'll be running the following setup to start with:


Jaco purple fronts, gray rears. What diameters should I start with?

.20 springs in the front

Castor is set up like in the directions: a shim on each side of the upper arm. How much castor is this?

Camber is around -1 degree. Will adjust for even tire wear I guess.

I currently have 35 wt. oil in the shock with the included copper spring. This seems like it may be on the soft side for very smooth carpet. What do you guys think?

Tweak springs are the included white ones.

Losi standard hydra fluid in the damper tubes.

I have heard there should be roughly 1mm of droop in the rear. Would this be measured at the rear of the motor pod?

I'm using an Airtronics 94145 servo, and C2 esc. 3000hv's for now, will be switching to gp3300's soon. I haven't really given much thought to motor choice and rollout yet. (stock btw)

Does it sound like I'm on the right track here? Or am I out in left field?


Any input on this stuff will be really helpful, not just for me, but for many in my area. Thanks in advance.

Chad

Bodido - The diff only uses one Belleville washer. I'm pretty sure there is no hub spacer(At least on current axles). You can put a shim on both sides of the pod, but I would try and measure to make sure the overall width is the same from the center out on both sides. The large side of the hub should go into the wheel, it will be pretty snug. Also it is a good idea to file all the flash off the screw holes so the wheel sits flush and spins true. I always use one axle shim on my front axles. It is a good idea to put the axle nuts on backwards to make sure they don't come off.

I would start with 45mm front and 49mm rear tires. You may have to find some thinner front spacers to set ride height and use #1 in the rear. The car should sag slightly in the middle also.

The front end in the kit needs to be shimmed differently on the right side to get the recommended 2 degrees of caster. Look at it closely after assembly. I strongly recommend at least trying the old style Associated front end, most people prefer it.

The rest of the setup is OK to start. Keep going stiffer until it is hard to drive and then back it off some. I usually run .020 front springs, 50wt oil with CRC stiff silver spring, red tweak springs, and 90 or 100wt oil in the tubes. Light Losi Hydra fluid is a good place to start. Lighter tamper fluid will make it more responsive.

Good Luck

Dana Bailes

Thanks Heybales.

The spacer I spoke of is supposed to go between the large flanged bearing and the belville washers according to the included diagram. In the diagram it is labeled "Alum cone". Should I run the "one" belville washer directly against the flanged bearing, and ditch the spacer. This is the included yellow IRS axle setup, if that helps clarify.

I'm sorry. You should definitely have that diff spacer. The spacer rides on the inner race of the baearing. Then the belleville with the hole side first then the nut. Be careful not to overtighten or you can flat spot the bearing.

Dana

Hi,

I race 1/12th stock or 19T on carpet and the track is about 48 by 60 feet most times. I have read this thread from the beginning and I have seen many advocates of the Speedmerchant and I understood that those people preferred it compared to a 12L3 but I am unsure about the verdict between the Speedmerchant Rev. 3 vs. the Carpet Knife 3.1. I own two CK3.1 and one 12L3. The CK is great for stock. Does the Speedmerchant handle about the same as the CK3.1? I would like to hear it from people who have had experience with both of the latter cars. The CK is a better deal so I would like to know why I should go with the Speedmerchant. Oh, by the way, Hobby Etc. is out of Rev.3 kits. Would that mean that a Rev. 4 is in the works? Thanks.

Daniel - You have plenty of hardware. Go to the track and have fun with it. I don't think you will see enough difference to warrant buying a fourth 1/12th scale car. I have driven almost every kind of car out there and I think any of them can produce great results. It is a matter of which car suits your driving style. The one you are most comfortable with is the one you'll be faster with.

Dana

daniel,

As far as I know-there is no rev.4 !!! I have another rev.3 on order. As heybales says-drive what suits you and the rev.3 suits me great!!! the spring cars just take more TLC than the T-plate cars. You gotta stay on top of the side links and always keep the car perfectly tweaked with as little load on the springs as possible.

Ray

Gearing Question. I just picked up a used 12L3 to run at tiderwater rc. The car came with a 96t/64pitch spur gear, I wanted to run a 35t/64p pinion but it won't fit. I'm using a MVP (4 cell )so I wanted to gear up a bit. Question 1; Can I toss the 64 pitch and go with 48 pitch gears? Question 2; Should I toss the 96t/64p and go with something smaller? Question 3; What is the perfered gear set up? Help!!

If you dremel the top, trailing edge of the T-plate you can move the motor closer to the front of the motor pod and can fit a larger pinion in.

Basically the T-plate edge gets bevelled to fit the contour of the motor can.

-----

In regards to the Rev.3, I'm pretty sure the delay in shipping is because they are still working on getting the side damper tubes made. Bolink used to make the side damper tubes but their machine broke and I don't think they have the means to repair it. From what I am told, Speedmerchant found another place to make them in November and is waiting for the tubes to be made.

Thanks Rich :thumbsup: , What gear ratio are you running?

Chris
Look for a rollout of ~ 42 to start for P2K2, ~ 40 for MVP. I did a chart in excel for rollout. Assuming you are using new tires at 50.5mm or 2" that would yeild a 57.8 rollout :eek:

Rich: How much front/rear stagger did you run with the 12L? I set mine up at 2.5mm
Thanks

Lastplace -- roll out is more what you want to look at instead of just gear ratio. It seems most folks run a roll-out between 1.65 to 2.10 -- it depends on the motor, track size, and driving style (ie: throttle finger). I race with folks that
run a roll out of 2.05 on a tight track! I can't run that high. I'm usually somewhere around 1.75.

300M - I'm terrible with terminology but doesn't stagger apply for oval racing? :) If not, I'm guessing you want to know my tire sizes front to rear? I haven't run a 12L in about a year now (I'm running a Rev.3), but I think tire size wise for big races I ran 1.71" fronts and 1.87 rears. The chassis was pretty level (with the front a little bit lower than the rear). Hope that was what you were looking for! :D

300m, Rear tires are 51.5 mm, 96t/64pitch spur, running a MVP, what should my pinion be?? THANKS for the help

P.S. Merry Xmas

:wave:

Merry Christmas to you and your family too!! Figured I would check the mail before the elves got busy :)
I would start with a 24 pinion, rollout 40.45. With the high RPM of the MVP this might be right. 25 ===> 42.1, 26 ==> 43.8
:thumbsup: Have a great one!

Rich: Thanks, yes that is what I was after. The height differance between the front and the rears. Like lastplace, I am new to 1/12. Just had mine 6 weeks longer :)

Thanks 300M, see ya next week:wave:

What would the effects be of tires not being rounded off correctly?

Hi

Just got a used Rev3 in a trade and was wondering how to set up the car..Questions are:-

The effects of changing to softer or harder
1)center springs
2)side spring
3)center shock oil

any input is highly appreciated

thanks

Runnin' Free: Not rounding the edges of the tires wil make the car, (please forgive the pun), edgy. It makes the car wanna tip over in high speed cornering situations. What you do is effectively run the car onto that sharp edge at speed. The rounded tire allows you to use more of the contact patch initially. A tire with a more squared edge can actually be advantageous on loose conditions where the car has no high-speed side bite though.

fReShJiVe: center shock oil and spring: Control how the car handles bumps, and to a certain degree, forward traction. A softer center spring/oil combo will let the car absorb bumps better and give a little more forward bite. Generally, if the track is smooth and has decent bite, you'll wanna run a Black spring, with 60 to 90 wt. oil.

Side springs: the side springs dictate how the weight is transferred latterally, stiff side springs and light dampening and the car will transition very quickly side to side, soft spring thick dampening will make the car lazy through quick transitions.


Ian Ruggles
Team Speedmerchant

CMW - thanks for the setup tips

a few more questions please correct me if i'm wrong:-

1)softer side = less turn in(off power) , more out of turns(on power)
2)softer center = less turn in , more out of turns

1. Yes
2. Yes, out of the corner, but the center shock spring doesn't effect turn-in unless it's way off one way or the other.

But there is a point of diminishing return. Too soft and the car will feel like it bogs down going in (side-off power). Too soft on the center spring and the car will feel soft accelerating out of the corner.

2. Yes, out of the corner, but the center shock spring doesn't effect turn-in unless it's way off one way or the other.

Gee Ian, who told you that?

davidl - please post your tips on the setups...

David doesn't go on message boards to help just usually to be condesending or obnoxious..... He's a ROAR representative you know.....LOL

Player - I will be condesending to you because you don't run 1/12. Plus you fit into one of the most obnoxious rc areas I have ever been to.

Mr. freshjive - I will relay to you that the center spring on a monoball car is very critical. You can't compare it to a tee-bar type car. I am genuinely interested in the answer from Mr. CypressMW. Please understand that I know him very well, and for a long time. We both run the Speedmerchant REV3, but he was a Carpet Knife guy for a while before the REV3. They do different things with the REV3 than the Carpet Knife guys do, and visa versa.
My experience with the REV3 is that the center spring has a lot to say about how agressive the car enters the corner. To me, it means off power steering to the center of the corner. The black spring recommended for the REV3 is much more agressive than the red or copper spring. I believe that description differs from the description you got from Mr. CypressMW (see 2 above).

If you say I don't run 1/12th scale I guess I bought my car for no reason at all?!?!? Right now I am waiting on the Vforce front end to be released, and nobody wants to run 1/12th asphalt down here....

I also guess we are obnoxious because we don't wish to drive 2-3 hours to race at a regionals on a rack just big enogh for Micros......

BTW: the above is the first informative post I have ever read from you..... Congrat!!! You didn't hurt either of your pointer fingrs did you??????

Player - I will be condesending to you because you don't run 1/12. Plus you fit into one of the most obnoxious rc areas I have ever been to.

Mr. freshjive - I will relay to you that the center spring on a monoball car is very critical. You can't compare it to a tee-bar type car. I am genuinely interested in the answer from Mr. CypressMW. Please understand that I know him very well, and for a long time. We both run the Speedmerchant REV3, but he was a Carpet Knife guy for a while before the REV3. They do different things with the REV3 than the Carpet Knife guys do, and visa versa.
My experience with the REV3 is that the center spring has a lot to say about how agressive the car enters the corner. To me, it means off power steering to the center of the corner. The black spring recommended for the REV3 is much more agressive than the red or copper spring. I believe that description differs from the description you got from Mr. CypressMW (see 2 above).

Thanks davidl :thumbsup:

davidl: It's odd that you'd say that, maybe it is the old 'Knife clouding my vision, but I find that the center shock spring's effect, especially with the batteries in the rear position, doesn't have a great effect on initial turn in. I find that its' ability to regulate weight transfer to the rear of the car under acceleration OUT of the corner SUBSTANTIALLY contributes to the car's exceptional corner speed out of the corner. If I change from a black spring to a copper, my initial steering feel going in is the same. If it's too soft then I find the car isn't free at the apex, and will push out because the weight can shift back harder under acceleration. When it's too stiff, it seems to rotate too hard, at the apex, and will be loose off the corner because it hinders weight transfer more. I guess the way I set the car up still differs from that of my teammates. I still use the front-end to get the car INTO the corner, and then use the rest of the car to get through the apex and out.

davidl: You also said "off-power steering" going into a corner........ Who let's off going into a corner? LOL!

Ian, what book are you copying that all out of, I want to buy a copy!!! Does Bruce or Hank sell one?

Greg: That's all me baby!! Maybe I should right a book!........Bad Idea, who's gonna buy a book on set-up written by somebody who can't drive?LOL! :devil:

Damnit!!! you beat me to the punch line!!! But definately not the finish line!!! hahahaha

CMW - I do. And I am not trying to be smart here, but maybe that is why I have a couple Nats championships? :cool: I want to add to this that Bruce and I always compare notes on setup after we think the track has leveled off and it always comes up on bumpy tracks. Bruce sez, "We need to keep the black spring on the center shock so the car will turn in." That is my way of quoting him, but you can get the point. I am now in Indiana and will be monitoring your efforts. Remeber, practice, practice, practice, and when you think you have it, practice some more. You need more laps.

davidl: Practice.....preparation is the key to victory!!

Seriously though, even off-power, I don't notice the turn-in difference between a Black and a Copper. Now between a Black and a Red, I'll notice a difference, but that goes back to the "way-off" portion of my original post. I personally have never run on a track that I felt would warrant a Red spring. Of course, my car has never felt loose going into a corner, but i have experienced a loose condition while accelerating away from corners, and under those circumstances, I go to the copper spring.

Maybe you'd have more than 3 or more national titles, if you drove a little deeper, and pulled a little earlier in the corners, J/K!

DavidL, are you in IN as we speak? shoot me an e-mail at tsuga1@yahoo.com

Do any of you guys have a setup for the Rev.3 for outside?

I believe you David. I have no doubt that Bruce says that, and I guess you guys are probably correct in that it helps keep the weight on the front-end going into the corners. But like I said , I think the difference between a copper and a black is fairly negligible in that regard. As for a red spring that's a whole different story.

I'm glad you're "Back Home In Indiana", and I look forward to racing with you again. Maybe this time I can learn some things from you! :devil:

It's "Back Home A-gain, in In-diana" geez, damn buckeye get it right....

CMW - yea, we can hook up. Things are different now. Don't have to prove anything. It's all good.

Greg - OK, I don't know how much I can help, but I will send you a message.

CMW - I forgot to mention that my experience indicates a noticable difference between the two springs. But, sometimes the bumps are so bad from those silly touring cars that it is better to use the copper or red spring. But you haven't answered my question. Who told you the info you posted earlier? Was it from the Carpet Knife group? And this isn't a flame on other people, especially CRC. Their car is different and will respond to other things.

Alright Buster that's enough of the Hoosier jokes. Us Hoosier boys can tell some Michigander jokes don't you know. Oops better not do that, Jake's a Yooper.

ha ha ha... don't forget, I went to college in IN... you guys going ROAR Nats in NC?

Greg,
No we are going to the off-road fuel Nats in OK City. Been having some fun with the RC10GT. May try to come up to MI for something this summer. If the Nats were foam we'd go but no rubber for us unless there is absolutely nothing else.

you want to go to Road Rash, oops, I mean Road Rage at CORCAR at the end of july then, I'm trying to get Mo and Ian to run a little mod 1/12th....

davidl: It's not information I was given by anyone, it's based on the only significant amount of testing I've really done between the two springs, which was right after I got the car, at Crossroads. I have since run the black spring almost exclusively, since I really only run at two to three different tracks during the course of the season, all of which are smooth enough to not require any less spring tension. I may hit Ultra in a few weeks to do some 1/12th testing, and if I do I'll definitely do some runs on different shock springs, and re-evaluate from there. We'll see...... :devil:
I did however, find the shock spring tension on the CK to have a more pronounced effect on turn-in. I think the weight distribution, and shorter wheelbase of the CRC car, make it a bit more sensitive to shock changes. The inboard springs also make it less sensitive to changes in side spring tension, and slightly more sensitive to changes in side dampening.
Now a question for you davidl... Are you running the low roll-center rear set-up?