I figured I should throw in my opinion... When I first started racing 10 years ago I bought packs from Chuck. Now 10 years later I am buying from him again. I actully talked to Chuck today for a little while just to learn a thing or two. The man is FULL of wonderful information. He will tell you how it is and nothing else. I ordered some batteries a couple weeks ago and threw them on a matcher I have here just to see, and sure enough, Runtime, voltage, internals, and even the MWH were identical.

I see everyone talking about the 3300gp cells.....Has anyone tried the Sanyo 3300s Chuck has? That is all I have been running. I have not yet had a chance to try a GP cell. His 1.141 voltage with 25 or 26 internals will keep up with 1.15 GPs with 16 internals from other companies. I too use to worry about internals of a cell but he explained to me why the internal is what it is. "You can not compare apples and oranges." The Sanyo cell and the GP cell are two totally opposite designs in cell structure. The cell walls are thicker on one than the other, which causes internals to raise or fall. On the same note, TEMP. of the cells play with internal #'s. The GPs normally get a little warmer than a sanyo which in turn contributes to lower IRs. Ever try cycling a pack with a heating pad on top of it? Ever try cycling a pack with a fan blowing on it? Those two factors play A LOT on internal #s.

Either way, I love the Cells from Chuck at World Class I have and that is all I am going to run from here on out. Besides, It is always a joy to talk to Chuck. He is one of the nice guys in the hobby.

Great batteries for the money. I've had the 1700's, and now some sanyo 3300's. Some of they guys at my track pool our $ together and buy in bulk about once a year. Then we all have some new batteries to race each other with.

Keep in mind--no matter what the numbers, any brand new pack will beat your old worn out pack. I have a turbo-thiry, but I don't waste my time trying to duplicate someone else's numbers (from any matcher). Just look for the best cells you can afford. Good luck.

Right -on jamie. Sanyo 3300's are the best kept secret in racing. They cosistantly give me more punch up front and equal finishing times compared to the GP's. Most dont understand this IR thing and just go by what the machine tells. They are a few bucks more and they are just like any of the past sanyo cells. Mine are holding up fine and I like them better than the GP's. If others dont care for them its fine with me, I feel like its a definite edge when using Sanyo's. I think the real reason matchers dont like them is they cost them more to buy and they make less money per cell. Pole Position also sells them, they are a great cell IMHO.

as long as we're talking about sanyo 3300's...... i've raced mine for 4 weeks, and cycled them yesterday for the first time since new. the verdict, junk. going to try and sell them to a sportsman guy this weekend for 20.00 a pack. let me say this again.... GP's rock

I'd give the matcher a call..30 + cycles on mine, still stout. The GP does appear to be indestructable though and appears to be the better cell for the masses, it seems you cant kill them even if abused. My touring car in the summer heat will be the true test.

na, i cycled the packs after i put them together to get the baseline numbers. same T-35, same room temp, same packs, disappointing numbers.

by the way, they are trinity cells, NOT worldclass

Originally posted by pancartom
by the way, they are trinity cells There in lies the problem. :eek:

Ulbrik- You "heard" wrong. It's best to not start rumors. By the way, did you find anyone who would lend you their SMC pack for $200? Who do you run for, again?

Where the heck did that come from? What does Ulbrik have to do with this?

Dyno, this is what Jack is refering to.

Originally posted by Frank Ulbrik
Not sure if it's true or not, but I "heard" through the grapevine that SMC uses a 360 sec cutoff as well.

the poor ulbrik boys! lol guess they still cant find that crying towel yet? go get'em jack! funny how he would have paid anything for those cells at the birds? but now they are no good? lolol :devil:

Originally posted by katf1sh
the poor ulbrik boys! lol guess they still cant find that crying towel yet? go get'em jack! funny how he would have paid anything for those cells at the birds? but now they are no good? lolol :devil:

Ouch!

i can tell this is going nowhere....

Yes, so can I. Lets try and keep this thread constructive and informational on World Class Batteries. :)

allrighty like I said I have used them exclusively for at least 5 years and I would RECOMEND them to anybody.:thumbsup: :D

Psycho, I've seen you drive, and your fast!

You running the MARS series this year? Lets just hope you don't have to deal with a waterpump the day before a MARS race this year...... :)

Actually it was a waterpump and a complete brake job. But yeah I should be good to go for the mars because I slowed down most of my wintertime racing and put the money I would have spent into a mars fund. I was completely bummed out when I was leading points in stock buggy and could not make it out to the 3rd race. About Chuck's cutoffs and all of that gobblygook I have some 2400's from him that were not done on the 5000 cutoff or whatever and I had alot of people tell me that they were gonna be junk, but those were the batteries that I ran in stock buggy last year and those are the batteries that I will be running in stock buggy this year. I have never had a problem with his cells and will continue to go to him with all of my battery needs. AND before anybody asks NOPE I am not sponsored by him and I am quite sure he does not know who I am, you could call him and ask if he knows Ken Kennedy and I am sure he will say WHO?? But seriously I think his stuff is real good.

Jake,
I'm even faster than Ken... and I use World Class too.:lol:

Last year at the Vicksburg MARS race, someone from another battery matching company asked me to use one of his packs in a qualifier (to compare it to my W.C. packs). I ran the about the same time (within a second or two). I know that off-road isn't the best arena to compare batteries, but I think I can drive around Vicksburg with consistancy. I didn't see any difference anywhere. I was told that my WC packs were "junk", but apparently that was good enough to win the Stock truck A main.

I never pay attention to #'s. I just get the best packs I can afford. I never get "the best" choice (factory boys?), but one step lower. I trust Chuck, and I haven't had a battery problem since I started using them (9 or 10 years) - I don't worry about the nunbers game, I just know my batteries seem fine to me.

Yeah, I hear where your coming from Kevin, and I know where that battery you ran came from too. :D LoL

I don't get that wrapped up in numbers either, the only that I am kinda picky about is my oval packs. #'s can be very important in oval!

True off-road is not as battery dependent as some other classes but Kevin is always in the top 3 of stock truck, I have not ran stock truck in years. But it sounds like kevin is laying down the gauntlet ha ha ha :devil: :lol: I might just have to run some truck now.:thumbsup:

Bring it on! Actually, I was thinking about getting one of those buggy-things. Ok, let's take the smack-talk over to the MARS discussion and leave these guys to argue about batts. (Jake, you can come too)

Originally posted by KevinDog
Jake, you can come too Been chatting w/ Dave and Jay all day over there....where you been? LoL

Originally posted by DynoMoHum
Why are you guys saying they seem to be playing with discharge figures? They state that they all are at 30 amps and go to .9 volt cuttoff...

The numbers are not much differnt then what SMC is saying... 1.13, 1.14, 1.15.... Heck SMC is saying 1.16s are seen regularly on the high end even before the 'new shipment'.

I really don't see anything to indicate the numbers from World Class are not to be beleived.
(innocent till proven guilty and all).

DYNO...go back to the world class site and actually read the bottom of the page where the foot notes are. They TELL YOU they are doing this right up front.the guy is 100% correct. don't compare worldclass 1.15 to promatch 1.15s, world class would have to produce a 1.16 or better to compare to a promatch that calulates voltage over the entire cycle, this is the only reason I won't spen omne penny with world class, I want to know full cycle numbers, reguadless of what I pay, same goes for the nerds out there deciding to swich to an OHM reading instead of IR...they can keep them...don't care who swears buy them.
If a cell is that good then report is aributes in the standardized format, and full cycle averages.
sorry, to me ANYONE who "fiddles" with stuff, id NOT doing it for YOUR nbenifit...it's for their own.
Doug B.
Team B.R.C.

I spoke with Chuck on Monday. They are now showing thier numbers at a full run-out, no more 360 sec cutoff. So now he will be on the same method at SMC, Pro-Match, etc.

it's about time. tried to email a few questions about this, but got no reply, but Im just a possible customer.

You know... I just cycled some packs yesterday, and I have an intersting observation... My newest packs have longer run times, and higher voltages listed on the lables. There was some question as to if the matcher of my newest cells was using 360 second cuttoff to calclulate voltages... anyway...


When I cycled my packs yesterday, I noticed that these newer packs have the same voltage as the older ones though the first half of the dishcarge curve, after that the older packs start to loose voltage, and eventualy drop off. The newer packs have significantly higher voltage during the second half of the discharge then do the older packs. The reason I bring this up here is... I could see where you might actualy be able to obtain higher average voltage with full run out then you might with a 360 limited runout... it all depends on how the pack is holding up near the end of the discharge.

SO... I'm not even sure that you can automaticly assume that voltages will be higher with a shortened time period... Full runouts may actualy yeild higher average voltages in some cases.

Maybe it'd be better if we could see average voltages listed for cells at more then one spot in the discharge curve... for instance... 1.19 volt average though 60 seconds, 1.18 through 120 seconds, 1.17 through 180, etc...

I'm begining to better understand why some people are saying voltage numbers don't matter much... I don't agree that higher voltage doesn't matter, but I'm thinking that full runout average voltages may be somewhat misleading, no matter how you figure them... There is much more going on, then these average voltage numbers show.

There are quite a few racers who buy their batteries by run time. The belief is that the voltage will be higher at the 240 sec. mark. Another place they look is how many sec. there batteries had above five ( the start of discharge). Example - 100 sec. when it dropped to 4.99 volts.

Hmmmm...interesting posts here. World Class batteries are top-notch. As spoken in a previous post, my best packs (for general racing) were not even matched by Chuck, but they came from his shop as "left-overs". I bought them way cheap, and they've held up extremely well. I tried Orion batteries and a couple Integy packs...but I am very confused with those companies:

I can buy GP3300 Factory Boys, as stated on WCB's site for $59.75
I had to pay $65.99 for the Orion pack, and they packaged them with 3 GREAT cells in the visualization box, and 3 comparatively CRUMMY cells on the other end, what a rip.

I'll continue to use WCB...Chuck is a nice guy and has been honest with me so far. He certainly hasn't minded telling me that his better batteries are the cheaper ones (comparing GP to Sanyo).

As for the performance issues (stated on Page 1 of the posts), Battery manufacturers tend to lose sight after a while. They come out with a product and the QC (Quality Control) is high. Then they spend that money recovered to develop new products, gradually decreasing the QC for current products. I think that relates to Political Economics? :) Anyways, Chuck has always been upfront with me, and when I win the Nationals in 5 years *smirk*, I'll be proud to have WCB stickers all over my stuff.

As for the discharge voltages...there is a company that makes a cycler/matcher that stores/prints info just like a good dyno. you get graphs and everything, I'll try and come up with a link to their stuff.

Oh, and don't forget, Trinity owns or plays a role in everything that makes anyone any money in the R/C world. Sad to say....Racing may be competitive, but I'm not sure making the products is!

T35BLs allow you to print a graph that represents the discharge curve. The newer GFX units actualy offer several ways to get data from differnt points during the discharge. I think one way they allow it is through the ablity to spit out the actual voltage at like 10 second intervals or something...

It's fairly clear that there is more then one way to look at discharge data and how to determin what it is likely to mean in terms of on track proformance. (just like with a dyno)

Oh... how I would like to have a new CE GFX... :)

I'm not trying to say that what any one matcher does is correct, but, there are reasons to "normalize" or cut off the voltage numbers on batteries. What Mel is talking about with the 5 volts at some time is just another way of comparing batteries with different runtimes.

Unfortunately the industry standard is the full run out and every matcher should provide that number along with any "early" cutoff that they use.

Just as an example, if you have 2 cells with say 400@1.13 and 430@1.12. The cell at 430 is handicapped becasue it has to discharge for an extra 30 seconds. If you set the voltage cut off for this cell to 400 seconds, you will probably find that it has the same or more voltage than the 400 second cell. If you only need 400 seconds at 30 amps, the 430 cell is actually better even though it shows less voltage on the label.

The more I think about it, I like the idea of measuring how long it takes a 4 cell pack to go below 5 volts. I'll have to check my 12th packs out.

One last thing...If you use the entire discharge (in mod for example) then any early voltage cut off is BS. Early cutoff's are only useful if you're only using about that much of the cell's capacity.

Noticed the posts up here concerning cutoff times during matching.
I agree with Fred and Mel.
We have been doing a full 5000 sec run out matching process "industry std". Along with that a "race volt match", this is a lower amp discharge and a timed cutoff matching process.
I have seen cells that are considered to be a "racer" grade have just as much volts as "team" grade cell during a time cut off cycle. This goes right along with what Fred is saying.
Along with what Mel is saying.... I have been doing this when comparing packs. Which one holds xxx volts the longest. I really like this way when sorting thru many packs prior to a big race.

Jeff
OTEC Racing

I cycle my packs differently according to what track I'm at. With 6 cell stick-packs, I discharge at 25A down to 5V, because that's the closest comparison I can make to track performance. It's worked quite well for me, even if "sportsman" stock isn't considered the pinnacle of oval racing...

I think it goes back to something we were all agreeing to last week... about all you can do is to find a matcher you trust, and buy the best you can afford.

For me the ideal situation would be to give me averages at regular intervals, like 60, 120, 180, 240, 360, etc... But this would require some big lables... :) along with the full runout of course.

I also think looking at mWh would be the best for Mod... Highest mWh should mean most total power.

without a full runout, you will not be able to compare your cells to other matchers, which I think stinks. I only have trinity packs but am now switching to pro-match. I have heard very good things about his batteries, and his numbers are very accurate with no number manipulating. He has some gps on the web site 1.16+ at 30 amps:D

Never had a pack of World Class that ever ran good.

What class do you run tractionroll? because I run off-road and I have never had a pack of them run bad. the reason I ask is I am wondering if because I run off-road and and offroad is not really "battery dependant" to be fast if I am just not noticeing something.

What class do you run tractionroll? because I run off-road and I have never had a pack of them run bad. the reason I ask is I am wondering if because I run off-road and and offroad is not really "battery dependant" to be fast if I am just not noticeing something.

I would like to add I run oval and these are the ONLY batteries I use. I have had nothing but great luck with them. Just treat the batteries exactly how Chuck from World class tells you to. They will perform for you.

alottta discussion in here! seems like nothing but good praises on his packs. after i get my 16x9, its either promatch or worldclass matched cells. :p ;)

Now I gotta but in here, Pro Match. :D

haha, i knew i would get that reply. seems most people prefer promatch cells over any other matcher. either one is fine for me since i am in offroad. only number that i usually watch is the IR. voltage is good, but more punch is better. especially with the newest track layout!

http://redstickraceway.com/22803-4.jpg
(unfinished)

Here is a tid bit that u all might not know the nice fella that owns and operates pro-match (Jeff Roe) used to work with Chuck Starry ;)

Here is a tid bit that u all might not know the nice fella that owns and operates pro-match (Jeff Roe) used to work with Chuck Starry ;)and geuss what?i've bought batts from both and they both run great i use 3000's from jeff and 3300's from chuck and they run great both guys are excellent for the hobby because their customer service are top notch!i know at our biggest race up here at k/n someone won both 4-cell mod and 4-cell stock running chucks batts.

and geuss what?i've bought batts from both and they both run great i use 3000's from jeff and 3300's from chuck and they run great both guys are excellent for the hobby because their customer service are top notch!i know at our biggest race up here at k/n someone won both 4-cell mod and 4-cell stock running chucks batts.

Me too I have batteries from both and both are good especially for the price.

Tractionroll: Maybe if you would take care of the batteries the way Chuck describes in his packaging, you would like them more. Then if you did that, maybe I wouldn't have been consistantly 2,3-4 laps faster than you on oval. I don't know, just a maybe.

Then again maybe if I were to use your batteries I might be able to win a couple Nationals.

Just a thought.

WORLD CLASS STILL ROCKS. Keep up the good work Chuck and Thanks again,

Eugene Ryder :thumbsup:


Laps faster, thats a good one. You are the man, LOL Hey can I get some speed secrets from you.

haha, i knew i would get that reply. seems most people prefer promatch cells over any other matcher. either one is fine for me since i am in offroad. only number that i usually watch is the IR. voltage is good, but more punch is better. especially with the newest track layout!

http://redstickraceway.com/22803-4.jpg
(unfinished)


I just ordered some promatch cells and I would say go pick some up. The latest GP's have Internal Resistance as low as 14 in the good packs!!

I just got my pack from pro match. Wow this thing is awsome. One cell is 1.159 av with a 13 IR

I just got mine in from Promatch 1.169 with 13 IR
Will run them on Saturday to try and beat my Track record in pancar

This is a WORLD CLASS Batteries thread, please start a Promatch Batteries thread if you guys want to discuss the particulars of their packs...