Dale, I am always good for a pitcher of Miller Lite

Sissy girlie beer.

LOL, Its cheap... and you SHOULD be drinking light beer!! :tongue:

-Sean

T-spec parts are in stock at Horizon; BTW what's the T stand for?

1. Toolbox
2. Turd
3. Toy
4. Tuesday
5. Trinity





















JUST KIDDING. Kind of.

Have to take a look at the rules when they come out. It might be interesting as far as the big race goes kind of like the tamiya/hpi/kyosho races.

Look who's talking; LOL

LOL, Its cheap... and you SHOULD be drinking light beer!! :tongue:

-Sean

So far, we have agreed to: Tamiya F201 based car, not necessarily TCS-legal, 19 turn fixed-can motor limit, no removing the motor on race night, any battery, hopefully Type A tires only or a spec tire, no tire warmers!, a points chase for driver and manufacturer's championships, and the body must be in pre-approved and current F1 team colors.

What we haven't gotten down yet is; what weeks will be points paying or not, number of events that equals a season, length of each heat, number of cars allowed per heat and how to penalize the field so that our Schumacher representative can be as dominant as the real deal is... just kidding Dale! :jest:

Thoughts? ...other than Ben's? :eek: ..........................( oh yeah, hey ferguson!......beer)

-SeanYou forgot the third party officiating panel on rule compliance :)

Look who's talking; LOL
LOL! Ouch! I still don't tip THOSE scales! ...do I? :eek:

-Sean

I think Nick's sell's car kits slightly above his cost so I would be surprised if we could do any better than the $156.00 tax included that I had heard but I will check. I talked to Eric and Matt saturday and they are going to do the F1 cars and they think they want to run Toyota. Seth and I Ferrari. What about you guys? I should have some information soon on when we will start our indoor on-road season.

I've got the Renault Team filled. Just need to get the cars.

-Jason

Wallyworld,
Sean and I are going with the BAR Honda, and I believe that Jason Pfieffer and a co-worker of his are going with the Renault. We need to recruit another McLaren driver to team up with Karl.
I'm dropping off copies of the August race calendar at the track today (Tuesday) at lunch time. It's already posted on the website.

See there.... just as I post, we have a confirmed Renault team.

Alright, Dale and Seth are #1 & 2 in the Ferrari's, Karl is #1 McLaren, Jason is #1 in the Renault, he also is bringing in another (new) guy for the #2 Renault, Scott and I have decided to team up for the BAR Honda, Eric and Matt take Toyota. That's 9 cars and 5 teams already! Of course only two of those cars actually exist right now but who is counting? What is the car limit we want to set for the heats and the mains?

-Sean

What about puting the #1 drivers in one heat and the #2 drivers in a seperate heat?

-Jason

Maybe for the heats and on non-points weeks, but the mains I think should be on time only. I think the first time we get a bunch of open wheel cars out there and see how hard it is to race without killing the cars and the marshalls we will have to reconsider how many cars make up a heat, 8 or 10 max.

-Sean

Has anyone figured out the points structure? For the starting grid for the main are we going to use the fastest time/ # of laps or the fastest one lap? What about a bonus point for taking the poll? How far down in the order do we want to award points? Are we going to limit tyre options?

Enough questions for now.

-Jason

Current F1 is paying points to 8th place, no pole points this year. 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 I think we should do the same. The B Main winner should be considered finishing next, behind the last place A Main driver. If this is points paying, cool, if not qualify better next time.

I think we will have to keep the heat format because several cars can run the same lap to the hundredth, unless the software will go to the thousandth. Then we could consider the heats practice and qualifying, set the mains and run a timed event.

I would like to see a tire rule to even the field and limit costs, but I am open to suggestions.

No pitstops!! Scott blocks enough of my view of the track already, I don't need him getting up and down on the drivers' stand too!!

-Sean

Has anyone figured out how long one of these cars will run before the batt. dumps. Might be something worth looking into so we can determine the lenght of the heats/ main. I think that we should have one endurance event. multiple batts. pitt under green. :devil:

-Jason

It needs to be a set number of cars that WILL always be in the main. If you keep changing it around depending on how many cars are there I don't think that would be fair. Because one week you might qualify 5th and end up in the B rather then having a shot at full points.

I'll be the number 1 driver for Orange Arrows F1. muahhhhhhhhh

You guys use personals, so can't you run like 20 cars at once? lol

It needs to be a set number of cars that WILL always be in the main. If you keep changing it around depending on how many cars are there I don't think that would be fair. Because one week you might qualify 5th and end up in the B rather then having a shot at full points.
I'll be the number 1 driver for Orange Arrows F1. muahhhhhhhhh
Your right, good point. I think 8 cars would be a good number. Maybe we can mess with the points so you have to finish well in the A just to make points.

Maybe we could make this too realistic by having you and Ben be our version of the FIA. Ben suggested we need a third party sanctioning body. We have already established that you two never agree so it would be just like having a real F1 set of rules!!

Too bad you aren't serious about the Arrows car, and too bad that team doesn't run in F1 anymore.
You guys use personals, so can't you run like 20 cars at once? lol
Could and should are not in the same ballpark here, are they? I would hate to marshall that!! lol.
-Sean (beer)

He could always run the Menardi. lol.

-Jason

Your right, good point. I think 8 cars would be a good number. Maybe we can mess with the points so you have to finish well in the A just to make points.

Maybe we could make this too realistic by having you and Ben be our version of the FIA. Ben suggested we need a third party sanctioning body. We have already established that you two never agree so it would be just like having a real F1 set of rules!!

Too bad you aren't serious about the Arrows car, and too bad that team doesn't run in F1 anymore.

Could and should are not in the same ballpark here, are they? I would hate to marshall that!! lol.
-Sean (beer)

Sean,

I am serious about the Arrows Orange F1. I am looking at the car right now and it is complete with fell decals and barge boards. If it is a team and you want a car painted liek it just start searching and you can find it as long as you have a Japanese translator on yur computer.

I think a test session of some sort would give us an idea of what motor would be the best, and how long the heats should be based upon battery life with the chosen motor. I was reading another posting board where someone suggested that a 19 turn would be too much for indoor tracks. He suggested the high speed gear set and stock motors. Not sure if it was ROAR stock or kit stock. I'll see if I can track down the board I was looking at.

Here's what I think you'll need to be compeditive.

1) F201 Williams kit (it has the high speed gears)
2) Aluminum motor mount (Tamiya or other brand)
3) Reinforced lower arms (They're a must)
4) Front and rear piston sets
5) Tamiya type A tires (the kit tires are junk)
6) One pair of universals for the front

I think that's it for the absolutely must have's.

There's other hop-ups that are more of a convenience or style thing. Aluminum rocker arms, Turnbuckles (Call Lunsford), Aluminum shock bodies, light weight diffs...

The high speed gear set might actually be overgeared for a Monster stock or the like on carpet.

That is pretty much what they say for the series that they are racing at Lazer in Adrian, MI.

I think it might be trail and error but the kit motor might be the way to go. This way you can't mess with the motor by rebuilding it. Most you could do is spray it out. Plus if the high speed gear set is over geared for a stock it will cause the motor to really need to be rebuild.

I think the above list should be the most allowed aftermarket stuff so it does keep the cost down it gets rid of the major tuning part so it is all driving.

The only problem that I can see is runtime. With the high bite carpet amp draw on the motor is alot greater then outside so we might need to do some test runs the first week to see if it is possible to run whatever race length is decided on or make it longer so you have to be easier driving the cars and pace yourself. That way we are assured Dale will win and Ben won't finish. Sorry I had to. hehehe

hey it all sounds great.. There is one thing that i would like to talk more about and that is the points. wouldent it be nice to have a system where there are points for every car say cars 1-16 get points if they finnish the main. the reason for this is that not every one will be showing up all season long every race so for those that do show up and finnish the main race will get pionts. this will make you want to show up say a good racer that is sure to win the a-main dosent show up he gets no points but a slow racer that shows up all the time gets points and may be can come close to the top by always finishing a main. i am not saying points for DNF just pionts for persistance. the 1-8 pionts would be a race only for the top guys and teams "which yes that is what its for"

what do you think?
seth

i think that this will help in the manufacture race the top driver does bad but hey the #2 driver gets some points also so its not so bad...

we are running F1 cars at hobbytown south in Indy

So far the cars have proved to be very durable. Will not be able to run a mod motor because of the fixed gearing, However I have found that the kit motor works as well as a paradox or p2k. The cars will run about 7-8 min with a 3300 stick pack with out a problem. the track we are running on is 120 x 60

Hope this helps you guys

Rob Feeser

Thanks for the input Rob! Is this outdoor asphalt road course in Indy? This is going to be a carpet deal in Fort Wayne for now. I am concerned how the wings and arms will hold up against the boards, but we'll find out. We aren't planning on going with TCS rules so there shouldn't be a gearing issue. What issues have you found with the car? Thanks!

-Sean

hey it all sounds great.. wouldent it be nice to have a system where there are points for every car say cars 1-16 get points if they finnish the main. the reason for this is that not every one will be showing up all season long every race so for those that do show up and finnish the main race will get pionts. this will make you want to show up say a good racer that is sure to win the a-main dosent show up he gets no points but a slow racer that shows up all the time gets points and may be can come close to the top by always finishing a main. the 1-8 pionts would be a race only for the top guys and teams "which yes that is what its for"
what do you think?
seth

I like this idea, Seth. If I win all the time, which won't happen, and decide not to show up, and Karl never finishes in the points while I am gone then there is no reason for him to show up because he won't be able to gain any ground on me. Right now, I don't think we will have a situation where half the field won't make the points every week. I think if we end up with 16 cars and 8 points paying positions we will hear the alarm clock and have to wake up.

-Sean

[QUOTE=Xpressman]Here's what I think you'll need to be compeditive.

1) F201 Williams kit (it has the high speed gears)
2) Aluminum motor mount (Tamiya or other brand)
3) Reinforced lower arms (They're a must)
4) Front and rear piston sets
5) Tamiya type A tires (the kit tires are junk)
6) One pair of universals for the front

I think that's it for the absolutely must have's.

There's other hop-ups that are more of a convenience or style thing. Aluminum rocker arms, Turnbuckles (Call Lunsford), Aluminum shock bodies, light weight diffs
I think the above list should be the most allowed aftermarket stuff so it does keep the cost down it gets rid of the major tuning part so it is all driving.

(WALLYWORLDS COMMENTS)
The lightweght diffs are important to have on these cars because the original diffs that come with the kit aren't durable enough. Also I'm not to concerned about tire cost because after putting paragon on them and with the all wheel drive and the wide contact patch these tires have any decent tires (other than the original junk plastic-rubber tires) your going to be able to get to hook up. Also to learn a lot more on these cars go to fomula1-rc.com if you haven't done so already. I have the carbon fiber chassis kit on my car that RC Hub sells for about $55-$60 that comes with an adjustable aluminum heat sink motor mount. One of the best values for RC cars after market parts out there.

I belive that we are going to leave the rules open when it comes to the chasis since it looks like some of us will be going the ebay route for our cars. This way if we get one that already has an aftermarket chassis we won't have to spend extra money to put our cars back to stock which would also downgrade our cars.

-Jason

Plus some of the aftermarket chassis kits are less expensive then the stock units too. From what I've seen with the cars either type of chassis isn't going to have an advantage over another.

Here's what we found with the F1 cars at Lazer over the past 2 years:

Motors-

The kit motors seem like a good idea at first but what ends up happening is the newest motor wins the race. Used (or water dipped) kit motors are slower than a new motor fresh out of the package. We're running Monster stocks at Lazer this season and other than the heat, they're ok with spec Trinity brushes. I think that we are probably going to go to 19 turns next season because they run cooler and aren't much faster than stock.

Batteries-

Good batteries will make the car faster but we have 3300 "spec" batteries from O'Tec this year and the cars are really quite even. The fastest cars don't always win anyways.

Chassis-

We opened up the chassis rules this year and I think that there is no differance between the kit chassis and the aftermarket ones. I've won races with the kit chassis and lost races to the aftermarket ones. Aftermarket chassis are great as long as you keep the stock gearing and enforce a minimum weight.

Weight-

I think we decided on 53oz for legal weight. A bone stock car will weigh a little more and a tricked out car will weigh less. I think that the weight is a huge part of the car's overall performance. I was almost 2oz lighter than some other cars last year.

Hop-ups-

1) Reinforced Arms. Must have...

2) Tamiya Type A and or B tires (Stick with the Tamiya's so that there isn't a tire war)

3) Tamiya shock shafts/pistons and 1 set of hop-up springs.

4) Locker arm brace. Cheap thing from Formula1-RC. This will be an absolute must have on carpet.

5) Front universals. Dogbones in the front suck.

6) I run a plastic front diff. It's not a must but it does hold up well.

Last thing have fun with the class. No matter what you do some cars will be faster than others. Don't make speed the priority, it's all in the cornering.

Did anyone happen to notice that at www.formula1-rc.com they will have the BAR decals soon?

-Jason

p.s. Your welcome MR. Menardi boy. lol

Thanks for the post Fred! All the work you guys have done over the past few years will mean less teething time for us and we appreciate it. I have been talking about having fun on Tuesday nights instead of working our tails off, although, maybe I should... R/C'ing is and should be fun, but with the limited time of Tuesday nights it takes away from the racing. I think we can make this work, cheaply. I like the idea of fixed gearing, until everyone gets a good chassis. What do the rest of you guys think?

-Sean

I'd say either the stock gearing or the high speed gear set. The Williams kit comes with the high speed and I think that the Tuned chassis does as well.

-Jason

so far we have had no issues with the cars, but we are running on a fairly large track. Carpet will be another issue since it will be a much tighter corse, more like Monoco. I ran a monster stock in mine the first weekend and they get real hot, had a temp gun and it was over 300 degrees, spit would sizzle.


Rob

Sounds like the stock gearing and a ROAR stock or kit motor may be the way to go for us on carpet indoors. Both the Lazer and Hobbytown Indy guys are running on big outdoor tracks and are having heat issues with the motors(with the high speed gear set, I assume???). It would just be worse on a smaller track with a high traction surface. I guess that's where a test session on our track would come in helpful. We could find out first hand what our track can handle.

Under or overgeared will cause heat issues. I think these other two tracks are big and the cars might not be long enough in the leg. I like the 19 turn idea. I also like open gear selection. With our track being tighter, and the higher power of the 19 turn, we won't be on the gas as much. This should reduce the motor temperature. Stock ends up feeling like restrictor plate racing after the first 2 minutes, and we would break too much stuff with an open mod. We need to set up a road course and test Scott's car and Dale's car in several different configurations each before we draw any conclusions.

-Sean

From what I've seen on other message boards the stock gears match up well with the 19 turn motors. I agree with the testing of the 2 cars. It will also alow us to see the differences in the 2 chassis.

-Jason

Dale/Scott,
When can you guys have the cars and the track ready? Just a basic roval will even do. When would be a good time for everyone to try this out?

-Sean

Well here is the deal. Orange Arrows F1 might not get to race if he doesn't get a job and get money. Kinda like the real TWR and Orange Arrows F1. So if anyone knows ofr employment plues feel free to let me know.

I believe that I win for most realistic to the real F1 team. And no I don;t have a drivers suit.

Thanks

Brian

Outdoors the high speed gearset is to high for stock but it's still faster. The low speed gearset is too slow. With 19 turn motors and the two Tamiya gearsets (easy to tech) you'll be fine on crpet. I think the Grand Rapids guys ran 19's with the high speed gears on carpet.

We just let the stock motors cook outdoors but I think that, regardless of what gear you run, you'll be burning any stock motor up in the F1's. The cars scrub too much speed in the corners for a low torque stock motor.

19T indoors with PVC dividers causes visions of broken front A-arms to go dancing through my head! I did plenty of testing last winter in Grand Rapids & in my opinion, the kit motor with hi speed gears worked fairly well - not real fast though. 27T stockers would be better if the track isn't too narrow (ours was), & I had better luck with a P2K & HS gears, rather than a monster w/ std gears. 19T was about right for bigger outdoor tracks, but was a bit much for indoors. Can't say about Tamiya tires, but the Pit mediums worked well indoors & out.

Denney

19T indoors with PVC dividers causes visions of broken front A-arms to go dancing through my head! I did plenty of testing last winter in Grand Rapids & in my opinion, the kit motor with hi speed gears worked fairly well - not real fast though. 27T stockers would be better if the track isn't too narrow (ours was), & I had better luck with a P2K & HS gears, rather than a monster w/ std gears. 19T was about right for bigger outdoor tracks, but was a bit much for indoors. Can't say about Tamiya tires, but the Pit mediums worked well indoors & out.

Denney

Don't worry Denney, it isn't PVC, its 2x4's!! :freak: You have a very valid point. The breakage concern is great. Thanks for the input on the motor/gear selection too!

-Sean

Sean,
My car is ready to go... just charge a battery and I'm set. It has the kit motor installed right now. Whenever the track is available, I could probably make it.

-Scott

The center strip of carpet was glued tonight so the track should be available by saturday or monday. Thanks goes to Cory Richardson and his friend Shane for all the hard work they put in reworking the track for us carpet racers. We have a great thing going hear at Summit Raceway because of a lot of committed racers stepping up to help out. The future looks great and nobody deserves it more than our local racers.

Should we look at this coming Tuesday for an initial shakedown? Who can be there after 5pm?

-Sean

I can be there around 5:30.

Summit Raceway has a T-spec racer from Trinity in now. Maybe we can through some electronics in this one and thrash it around a little bit tuesday also. When I looked at this car for the first time I thought it looked like their main objectives was to build this car as reasonable price and bullit proof as possible. This is a very solid looking car at an unbelievable price! Hopefully if we decide to run these at the raceway it will encourage new racers to do on-road racing.

Tuesday sounds good to me also.