View Full Version : Winding your own armature advice


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Dyno
01-03-2011, 07:33 PM
I have been wanting to try winding up some of my own T- Jet armatures for a while and finally decided to give it a try. Ive spent countless hours looking for information on this subject, (there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of info out there) along with talking to a friend who winds his own drag arms. He walked me through the whole process and I understand it totally, but my question is what gauge or gauges of wire are suitable for road racing? Im looking for a good combination of torque and top end hp, maybe 4 or 5 ohms? Something a little hotter than a mean green. I only home race, so following any class rules isnt important to me.

Thanks,

Dyno

slotcar58
01-03-2011, 08:50 PM
If you want something hotter an a mean green try 37 or a 38 double wind (like a Super II). I believe 36 would be too hot for a non-magnet car. Good luck!

T-jetjim
01-03-2011, 09:48 PM
HO World has a How To rewind T-jet arms:

http://howorld.net/archives/howto/rewind/armature.html

Dyno
01-04-2011, 08:59 AM
If you want something hotter an a mean green try 37 or a 38 double wind (like a Super II). I believe 36 would be too hot for a non-magnet car. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I have several Tjets with Neo mags on the bottom of them so I might have to try both winds. I should be getting the wire today so next stretch of free time I get I will report back with my great success or miserable failure.

Dyno

Dyno
01-04-2011, 09:01 AM
HO World has a How To rewind T-jet arms:

http://howorld.net/archives/howto/rewind/armature.html

Thanks for the info, Im shocked I didnt run into that article before. It basically summed up what I already knew but added a few more tidbits of info.

Dyno

joegri
01-04-2011, 05:33 PM
dyno yer way braver and taleted than i . to take on this task ya gotta have good juju on yer team. i dont have any advice but i am watchin what ya got going. i do have an interest in what you,re gonna try good luck! as far as hypo arms are concerened i just got a custom wound arm from tjetsgrig/jim it,s over the top smooth and fast.hope yours come out well !!

Dyno
01-04-2011, 07:09 PM
dyno yer way braver and taleted than i . to take on this task ya gotta have good juju on yer team. i dont have any advice but i am watchin what ya got going. i do have an interest in what you,re gonna try good luck! as far as hypo arms are concerened i just got a custom wound arm from tjetsgrig/jim it,s over the top smooth and fast.hope yours come out well !!

I dont know if Im more talented... I just like to try and make my own stuff. I hear the first few you make dont run so well. The thing I do have on my team is a friend who winds stupidly fast drag arms showing me the ropes. He should be a huge help.

Boosted-Z71
01-04-2011, 11:25 PM
I have wound a couple pancake arms for my T-jets, and they have come out very well, I want to start trying to work on some that would be Fray type legal, I have found that for the winding process a bobin tool like the fishing fly builders use works very good. There are types that have an extended tip & you can lay that wire wrap right in place on the stack easily, and it goes pretty fast. Does any one have a chart for the wire diameter & length required to produce a specific ohm after the pole is wound? if so I would really appreciate that info, also any tricks or tools to remove & attach the com plate would be appreciated.

I made a crude little press to reform the tabs but you have to be soo careful, I know there has to be a better way. I use a brass sleeve to center the comm plate on the stack, then remove it afterwards.

Also if anyone knows what to use to dye the armature stacks with, that information would be nice to know as well. I just got my first lamination stack done, checked the shaft & now after a little lathe work its near perfectly round. I may just paint this one on the ends but it would be nice to dye it like some I have seen.

One other piece of advice from a novice for rewinds, I have had really good luck balancing my arms with epoxy afterwards, and they run very smooth, get yourself a watch makers poising tool, I picked up a really nice ruby jaw unit for $15 from ebay, Just take your time when you balance, I blow on the arm with a straw to rotate it. I practiced with modeling clay until I got the "expertise" & nerve up to start using the epoxy.

Boosted

usdra
01-05-2011, 10:02 AM
http://www.wiretron.com/ this website has a resistance calculator you can download. Does not work with windows 7. After you figure out the ohms per foot (opf) 72% of that figure will be your reading at the pole. 37awg wire is .512148 opf. For this example we will figure a roughly 3ohm arm. opf.512148 x 9ft x 72%= 3.32ohms.

Eric
www.mobydiditperformace.com

tjetsgrig
01-05-2011, 05:41 PM
The thing I do have on my team is a friend who winds stupidly fast drag arms showing me the ropes. He should be a huge help.

This fast?? This is one of my 2 laminate motors.......2 car batteries. :D :D


YouTube - Aurora Outlaw Tjet Scale 1/4 mile

Boosted-Z71
01-05-2011, 06:07 PM
http://www.wiretron.com/ this website has a resistance calculator you can download. Does not work with windows 7. After you figure out the ohms per foot (opf) 72% of that figure will be your reading at the pole. 37awg wire is .512148 opf. For this example we will figure a roughly 3ohm arm. opf.512148 x 9ft x 72%= 3.32ohms.

Eric
www.mobydiditperformace.com

Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for.

The vid on the drag t-jet is just sick, unbelievably fast, How many runs do you get on brushes & comm of that type build? I have no experience with any drag type cars, but that is impressive.

How do you stop the thing without demolishing the car?

Boosted

Dyno
01-05-2011, 07:34 PM
I have wound a couple pancake arms for my T-jets, and they have come out very well, I want to start trying to work on some that would be Fray type legal, I have found that for the winding process a bobin tool like the fishing fly builders use works very good. There are types that have an extended tip & you can lay that wire wrap right in place on the stack easily, and it goes pretty fast. Does any one have a chart for the wire diameter & length required to produce a specific ohm after the pole is wound? if so I would really appreciate that info, also any tricks or tools to remove & attach the com plate would be appreciated.

I made a crude little press to reform the tabs but you have to be soo careful, I know there has to be a better way. I use a brass sleeve to center the comm plate on the stack, then remove it afterwards.

Also if anyone knows what to use to dye the armature stacks with, that information would be nice to know as well. I just got my first lamination stack done, checked the shaft & now after a little lathe work its near perfectly round. I may just paint this one on the ends but it would be nice to dye it like some I have seen.

One other piece of advice from a novice for rewinds, I have had really good luck balancing my arms with epoxy afterwards, and they run very smooth, get yourself a watch makers poising tool, I picked up a really nice ruby jaw unit for $15 from ebay, Just take your time when you balance, I blow on the arm with a straw to rotate it. I practiced with modeling clay until I got the "expertise" & nerve up to start using the epoxy.

Boosted


There are plenty of wire gauge guides online, I did a google search and found plenty. I made a magnetic balancer out of a gear press that is rediculously sensitive. I only epoxy balanced once so far and it was ok, it was far easier to grind small slits and remove material with a dremel. I get mixed reviews on whats the better approach.

Dyno
01-05-2011, 07:37 PM
This fast?? This is one of my 2 laminate motors.......2 car batteries. :D :D


YouTube - Aurora Outlaw Tjet Scale 1/4 mile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvPe6_avveM)



I dont know about THAT fast...lol I have to ask him.

Boosted-Z71
01-05-2011, 10:48 PM
Yeah, I have a magnetic type balancer as well, but I prefer the poising tool. As for the method I was not sure which was best, grinding the stack or the epoxy method. I am waiting to see how the trued stack setup turns out in terms of how close I can get the air gap to what I want.

Boosted

tjetsgrig
01-05-2011, 11:32 PM
Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for.

The vid on the drag t-jet is just sick, unbelievably fast, How many runs do you get on brushes & comm of that type build? I have no experience with any drag type cars, but that is impressive.

How do you stop the thing without demolishing the car?

Boosted

Hey, thanks Boost!

I can get quite a few runs out of a comm. They will wear away on the trailing egde of the comm segments getting smaller with each pass. Once the e.t.'s start to drop off, it's time for a new motor! As far as balancing goes, I lean more towards epoxy, grinding the stack tends to change your magnetic field, in my opinion ( I've tried both ways w/better e.t.'s with epoxy ).

Jim Sgrig

Joe65SkylarkGS
01-06-2011, 08:56 AM
This fast?? This is one of my 2 laminate motors.......2 car batteries. :D :D


YouTube - Aurora Outlaw Tjet Scale 1/4 mile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvPe6_avveM)



Crazy!!!!!:freak:


Jim you are the man!!!:wave:

Dyno
01-06-2011, 08:57 AM
This fast?? This is one of my 2 laminate motors.......2 car batteries. :D :D


YouTube - Aurora Outlaw Tjet Scale 1/4 mile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvPe6_avveM)

Ok, I showed my friend your video and he was impressed. He has been out of HO drag racing for about 8 yrs, but at the time he was running .4teens at 54 mph.

tjetsgrig
01-06-2011, 04:58 PM
Ok, I showed my friend your video and he was impressed. He has been out of HO drag racing for about 8 yrs, but at the time he was running .4teens at 54 mph.

0.4teens @ 54mph is very respectable for a 2 laminate motor!! My goal was to try and break the .3's @ over 60mph with a 2 laminate.......I have accomplished that. I will say though, I have gone considerably faster with one of my Custom 5 laminate motors.......unofficial ( not in a sanctioned event ), 0.299 @ 80.05mph.......with a Tjet!!


Jim Sgrig

tjetsgrig
01-06-2011, 04:59 PM
Crazy!!!!!:freak:


Jim you are the man!!!:wave:

Thanks Joe!!

tjetsgrig
01-06-2011, 05:02 PM
Ok, my winding advice? Lots of time and patience! Lay your wire out tight and flat, silver bearing solder.........and don't be discouraged if more than a few attempts are unsuccessfull. It took a long time for me to go this fast!

Boosted-Z71
01-06-2011, 06:12 PM
Tjetsgrig sent you a pm on the arm

Boosted

hrnts69
01-06-2011, 08:32 PM
Hey Guys, iam wondering whats the normal guage/length of wire for a 2.0ohm, and 1.0ohm Motor? Ive have a couple Mean Greens that i dewond and wanting to wind them about 1.0ohm for Drag Racing. Whats the wire combo to acheive this?

Also, are you guys going down to 22,26,30 guage wire? Or is that too big??

Thanks

usdra
01-07-2011, 01:52 AM
Hey Guys, iam wondering whats the normal guage/length of wire for a 2.0ohm, and 1.0ohm Motor? Ive have a couple Mean Greens that i dewond and wanting to wind them about 1.0ohm for Drag Racing. Whats the wire combo to acheive this?

Also, are you guys going down to 22,26,30 guage wire? Or is that too big??

Thanks

Post 11 has a link to a resistance calculator & a formula for figuring out what you want to know. For the 1.0 ohm I use 34awg & for the 2.0 ohm I use either 35awg or 36awg. Never used bigger than 31awg wire.

Eric
www.mobydiditperformance.com

wheelszk
01-07-2011, 09:29 AM
[QUOTE=Boosted-Z71;3624316] I want to start trying to work on some that would be Fray type legal,

I'm sure mean 16ohm type, because rewinds or dewinds are not legal in fray. I'm just saying.:rolleyes:

Boosted-Z71
01-07-2011, 10:42 AM
Yes your correct, I should have worded that a bit different

Boosted

Brixmix
01-07-2011, 02:36 PM
There NOT legal in ECHORR, Fray , The Quarrel, HOPRA, and UFHORA in the T-jet class

alpink
01-07-2011, 04:03 PM
what ever sgrig says is good enough for me. I have seen him make the guy with the Sherline lathe very unhappy, in person. I have plenty of his outlaw t-jet drag cars and they are all ballistic. however, when it is time to let the smoke out, it might be rather fiery instead! LOL

Dyno
01-07-2011, 08:26 PM
Well I drove through six inches of snow tonight to pick up the wire and an old Laganke armature winding tool. If time and the GF permits, I'm going to attempt my first wind tonight or tomorrow. I will post pics of my results either good or bad. Wish me luck...

Boosted-Z71
01-07-2011, 08:33 PM
Good luck, just take your time, I measure wire length & count turns as well.

Post up pics & info when you finish, nothing like winding one & hitting the trigger & see it go, But I will tell you I was sick to my stomach when a stock arm went up in flames the other day in one of my tweaked fray built chassis, It took forever to clean it back up, fortunately I got it apart before it actually melted the brush holes, still had to do a ton of careful scraping to get the remainder of the brushes out. That is the 1st one I have lit up in years, I think the house still smells, (read as wife not happy), bought lots of candles & air freshners today.

Boosted

joegri
01-07-2011, 09:41 PM
i dig all this talk of arm wraping and such cuz i dont have an idea what you,re all talkin bout but it sure is interesting and always check for pics and new post! so wrap on dyno and best of luck.

Joe65SkylarkGS
01-07-2011, 10:26 PM
i dig all this talk of arm wraping and such cuz i dont have an idea what you,re all talkin bout but it sure is interesting and always check for pics and new post! so wrap on dyno and best of luck.


LMAO!!!! I seen Jim wind a little when I went to his place. Amazing procedure. He did it just to show me cause I never seen it done before either.

I think you guys are wound up a little too tight yourselves!!!!

Dyno
01-08-2011, 12:34 AM
How can I explain my evening except for frustrating, yet informative.

This first attempt took me 3 hours! I first tried 16 feet and change of 36 gauge for 5 ohms and I couldnt get the comm plate on. I then tried 13' 7" for 4 ohms. After winding each pole and flattening the wire with a flat head screwdriver I was able to fit the comm back on. I epoxied it in place and made sure my wires were clocked correctly. The next part is were everything went down hill really fast. I was trying to lightly sand the wire ends to remove the epoxy coating and wouldnt you know it, I broke the last wire, and unfortunately it was the rear wire that I couldn't unwind and reattach.:cry: So I decided to keep on going and practice the soldering of the wires to the comm and filing the solder. That was the easiest part of the whole operation. I checked the ohms of the poles and got 5.9 5.9 and 11.8.
I put it in a chassis with dash magnets and it ran. Not well by any means and got HOT fast. It then sputtered and died. I gave it a nudge and it ran again. Then it died with a tiny wisp of smoke. I pulled it out of the chassis so I didnt melt it and checked the continuity.....nothing. I learned a lot from this project, and Im more determined than ever to wind a real screamer. I need to run to my friends house and get som comm plates because I only had one and I wasted it in a hurry. I will take a picture tomorrow of try number 1 and post it here.

Dyno

Joe65SkylarkGS
01-08-2011, 01:03 AM
Wow what a night bud.

I am sure you will get it. Even if it kills ya!!!lol

Boosted-Z71
01-08-2011, 01:35 AM
I use the liquid flux cleaner or laquer thinner and just soak the wire ends to remove the coating.

Sounds like you had a really good one if that one wire had not broke on you.

Boosted

Dyno
01-08-2011, 09:28 AM
I use the liquid flux cleaner or laquer thinner and just soak the wire ends to remove the coating.

Sounds like you had a really good one if that one wire had not broke on you.

Boosted


I was wondering if there was a liquid to do it. I even thought that maybe the heat of the solder would vaporize it. I have a roll of 38 coming monday. I will give it a shot again.

Here the picture of my first (in a line of probably many)
dud.

alpink
01-08-2011, 09:56 AM
dyno, you can get acid flux at most 1/24 slot tracks and online. just be sure to clean it real good with lighter fluid, naptha or motor cleaner after use. in any case, wrap each wire twice on the pole(with a short tail that you will trim off after) before soldering. most times, scraping the insulation off the wire is NOT necessary. use a high quality silver bearing solder judiciously, if you are not already, try to chock the armature shaft(top of it) in a pin vise to allow you to solder all three poles quickly and easily. even just holding the armature upside down in a regular vise is OK. as sgrig has said, you have to keep trying until you get a system that works for you.
Alan Galinko, Jim Sgrignioli, Bob Lincoln, Eric Hirt and many others have been custom winding armatures for decades and none of them were instant experts, although they all are now. I have tried it and just don't have the patience. so, I just order with sgrig and wait until the magical arm is ready. I have gotten custom arms from all the above along with a few others that I have lost contact with. I respect all these guys even though I give Alan a lot of grief. but he is a big boy with a good sense of humor and can take the ribbing. if I told you how I treat sgrig you would wonder why he even associates with me anymore... LOL !

Dyno
01-08-2011, 10:12 AM
dyno, you can get acid flux at most 1/24 slot tracks and online. just be sure to clean it real good with lighter fluid, naptha or motor cleaner after use. in any case, wrap each wire twice on the pole(with a short tail that you will trim off after) before soldering. most times, scraping the insulation off the wire is NOT necessary. use a high quality silver bearing solder judiciously, if you are not already, try to chock the armature shaft(top of it) in a pin vise to allow you to solder all three poles quickly and easily. even just holding the armature upside down in a regular vise is OK. as sgrig has said, you have to keep trying until you get a system that works for you.
Alan Galinko, Jim Sgrignioli, Bob Lincoln, Eric Hirt and many others have been custom winding armatures for decades and none of them were instant experts, although they all are now. I have tried it and just don't have the patience. so, I just order with sgrig and wait until the magical arm is ready. I have gotten custom arms from all the above along with a few others that I have lost contact with. I respect all these guys even though I give Alan a lot of grief. but he is a big boy with a good sense of humor and can take the ribbing. if I told you how I treat sgrig you would wonder why he even associates with me anymore... LOL !


I have acid flux here and silver solder also. The soldering of the wires was a snap. I used a piece of trim wood with a 1/16th hole in it to rest the arm in while I soldered the poles. I wish I knew about the acid trick last night, it would have saved me a headache. Also, I wound the arm by hand because I didnt have a vice to hold the La Ganke winder, and my GF didnt want to sit in the basement and hold the end of the wire as I held the rewinder in one hand and cranked with the other :freak:. I have nothing against paying for a custom arm at all, its just that Im the kind of guy that gets great satisfaction in doing things for myself. I know I can do it. My friend is coming bye this week I hope and giving me a class. He said it should take about 25 minutes to do a simple 2 lam motor. I guess I need to speed things up a bit...lol

joegri
01-08-2011, 10:56 AM
dyno you should be very proud of yerself! ya wrapped an arm that actually moved. that is an accomplishment all by itself. now go get,em killer. my money is on the 3rd try for a screamer!!! wrappin an arm n casting are places i dont want to go, i,ll leave that to the pro,s. good luck and dont look back they might be gainin on ya!

2racer
01-08-2011, 11:10 AM
I had a arm that was 18.3 ohms on all three points a wire came off the botom. After I resoldered it 0ne pole became 6.5 any ideas why?

Dyno
01-08-2011, 11:43 AM
I had a arm that was 18.3 ohms on all three points a wire came off the botom. After I resoldered it 0ne pole became 6.5 any ideas why?

I'm no expert here but I assume the wire that was re soldered was far shorter than it's original length thus lowering the ohm value.

Boosted-Z71
01-08-2011, 11:57 AM
Dyno I know what you mean by doing it yourself & that satisfaction, I do all my own work on whatever it is, theres days at home that I have been everything from the guy maintaining the septic system to an emergency doctor. I too just want to do it myself. I just ordered an arm from TjetSgrig, It may very well be my fastest arm when I get it installed, I will enjoy it but it will also give me something to shoot for in my own winds.
Keep winding, it's the only way to get better is to practice.

Boosted-Z71

Dyno
01-08-2011, 12:05 PM
Dyno I know what you mean by doing it yourself & that satisfaction, I do all my own work on whatever it is, theres days at home that I have been everything from the guy maintaining the septic system to an emergency doctor. I too just want to do it myself. I just ordered an arm from TjetSgrig, It may very well be my fastest arm when I get it installed, I will enjoy it but it will also give me something to shoot for in my own winds.
Keep winding, it's the only way to get better is to practice.

Boosted-Z71

This is what I plan to do...:thumbsup:

K.L. VanAtta
01-08-2011, 12:57 PM
Hello Everyone,

I did a lot of rewinding of pancake and Tyco/Riggen inline arms back in the early 70’s when racing in the HOPRA events close to me. For a gauge to my success I had Randy Kemp of K & K racing to compare to; I did buy many K & K arms as at the time they were the best.

I didn’t do any drag racing only road racing, used 37 gauge and 36 gauge wire from Belden with at minimum 150 degrees C heavy polythermaleze insulation ( try PlanetEngineeres for single 1 pound spools of wire in many different insulations and gauges ) with an occasional 35 gauge, 39 gauge double winds, 39/40 gauge double winds, and 40 gauge double winds done for experimentation. My standard arm was a 10 feet of 36 gauge wire on a 2 lamination blank with a old T-Jet comm; would adjust from there if the track had long straights or needed more “punch”.

When winding an arm lay the first layer down nice and straight and packed tightly so that the next layer will not push through; do not extend the first layer into the curved area of the winding surface near the tip. Use only fingers and soft tools to move the wire into position or to tamp the wire down, the use of metal anything can lead to the scratching of the insulation on the wire and to arm failure. The second layer, and if possible, all further layers of wire should naturally fall into the “valley” created by the two wires below it. The “idea” is to produce the “ideal” arm with flat straight layers of windings. I’ve managed a few, they are very good and last a long time.

A word on balancing. Once you have a workable technique for rewinding down the need for balancing becomes somewhat less important. Being able to repeat the technique for the three poles introduces minimal variation in mass. Thus the choice for balancing becomes the removal of mass not the addition of mass. The amount of magnetizable material removed is minor when compared to the magnet field produced by the pole energizing.

However the amount of mass one may add in balancing through epoxy can have on the overall performance of the armature could be significant. Increase in heat and a longer time to reach maximum RPMs are first to come to mind. Regardless of what balancing you did initially, after the first few runs or first race it’s time to rebalance because all those little wires have moved around a bit ( it’s good to epoxy coat the windings ).

My 2 cents worth.

Keith VanAtta

Boosted-Z71
01-08-2011, 01:10 PM
One thing I recently started doing to help with balance is to balance the comm stack prior to winding, By means I am no expert here but it seems to make the final job much easier as was mentioned prior.

Boosted

Dyno
01-08-2011, 01:24 PM
Hello Everyone,

I did a lot of rewinding of pancake and Tyco/Riggen inline arms back in the early 70’s when racing in the HOPRA events close to me. For a gauge to my success I had Randy Kemp of K & K racing to compare to; I did buy many K & K arms as at the time they were the best.

I didn’t do any drag racing only road racing, used 37 gauge and 36 gauge wire from Belden with at minimum 150 degrees C heavy polythermaleze insulation ( try PlanetEngineeres for single 1 pound spools of wire in many different insulations and gauges ) with an occasional 35 gauge, 39 gauge double winds, 39/40 gauge double winds, and 40 gauge double winds done for experimentation. My standard arm was a 10 feet of 36 gauge wire on a 2 lamination blank with a old T-Jet comm; would adjust from there if the track had long straights or needed more “punch”.

When winding an arm lay the first layer down nice and straight and packed tightly so that the next layer will not push through; do not extend the first layer into the curved area of the winding surface near the tip. Use only fingers and soft tools to move the wire into position or to tamp the wire down, the use of metal anything can lead to the scratching of the insulation on the wire and to arm failure. The second layer, and if possible, all further layers of wire should naturally fall into the “valley” created by the two wires below it. The “idea” is to produce the “ideal” arm with flat straight layers of windings. I’ve managed a few, they are very good and last a long time.

A word on balancing. Once you have a workable technique for rewinding down the need for balancing becomes somewhat less important. Being able to repeat the technique for the three poles introduces minimal variation in mass. Thus the choice for balancing becomes the removal of mass not the addition of mass. The amount of magnetizable material removed is minor when compared to the magnet field produced by the pole energizing.

However the amount of mass one may add in balancing through epoxy can have on the overall performance of the armature could be significant. Increase in heat and a longer time to reach maximum RPMs are first to come to mind. Regardless of what balancing you did initially, after the first few runs or first race it’s time to rebalance because all those little wires have moved around a bit ( it’s good to epoxy coat the windings ).

My 2 cents worth.

Keith VanAtta

Thanks for the great advice Keith. Now I have some questions. By my calculations 10 feet of 36 would give a final ohm value of 3.04 ohms. Is this suitable for a fairly tight home track with 19.6 volts and 4.5 amps? Most of the Aurora arms that get lower in ohms seem to lose torque and gain top end, is this due to the apparently smaller gauge wire Aurora used? Would a lower ohm arm comprised of a thicker gauge make up for this lost torque and add top end punch also?

Dyno

K.L. VanAtta
01-08-2011, 01:57 PM
Dyno,

There are a lot of factors that go into making a fast car on any given track. Armature/motor wise for what you’re describing I would try a single 37 of about 12 feet, magnet to arm air gap of 10 to 15 thousandths of an inch with Super II, JL, or Dash magnets. If you’re just playing at home and have no worries about rules, then a 0.008 K & S tin shim behind each magnet will help in terms of the magnetic field to the arm.

In general try for 4.5 to 5.0 ohms for a drive-able car. Remember that a smaller magnet to armature air gap will give better brakes and acceleration but will run hotter. A larger air gap will give better top end but slower acceleration. It is a game of compromise to match the car to your driving style to the track to all the lanes.

Adjust from there with gears. In the 70’s we were limited to the stock 15 tooth, the Tyco 18 and 19 tooth crowns, and the Super II 19 tooth crown. Now it looks as if you can use anything from 20 to 24 as long as it doesn’t hit the rails. Of course the former options are still available.

Keith VanAtta

Dyno
01-08-2011, 02:33 PM
Keith, thanks again for the advice. :thumbsup:

My track only has 7 foot straights and some tight turns, including a hairpin. However Im in the process of helping a friend build a fairly large 4 lane at his house with 15 foot straights. I dont have any 37 gauge wire. I have a spool of 36 now, and a spool of 38 coming on monday. How does 10 feet of 38 sound. It should be about 4.8 ohms I believe. One more question. Whats the advantage of a double or triple wind?

Thanks, Dyno

pic of my layout

K.L. VanAtta
01-08-2011, 03:15 PM
Dyno,

Without going into a bunch of DC Electric Motor Theory, which has been covered very well here on HobbyTalk by several members/HO racers ( excellent job! ), the 38 gauge can not transmit the same maximum amount of current ( expressed in amps ) as 37 gauge or lower numerical wire sizes. This then affects the ability of the armature pole to produce a magnet field which then propels it to the magnet. The larger the wire ( smaller numerical wire gauge ) the greater the amount of current it can carry and the stronger of a magnetic field it can produce which equals a faster spinning, higher torque motor.

Of course this is slot car racing and sometimes the general rules of physics appear not to apply, but, that is only because there are so many variables that must be accounted for.

The one big drawback of the pancake motor design is the gear train. Inline cars have two gears compared to five in the pancake motor car. Consider this when comparing the power of the two types of motors; think of the massive amount of energy those five gears consume!

In principle two wires of a smaller gauge will carry slightly more current than a single wire that is three gauges larger. A 40 gauge double wind will be equivalent to a single 37 gauge wind of the same winding dimensions.

Keith VanAtta

tjetsgrig
01-08-2011, 03:51 PM
These are a couple of my Custom Quads........keep at it Dyno!!

Joe65SkylarkGS
01-08-2011, 03:54 PM
These are a couple of my Custom Quads........keep at it Dyno!!

Those are flying just sitting there bud!!!:woohoo: