Thats right Larry, Outlaw 250 may 22nd

ahhhh sorry jimmy there will be nitro cars....but maybe it wont be 100 degrees and that will help. Plus there should be quarter scales...they will help spread out the nitro mess. Look forward to seeing you.

Sent u an email Nick.

Hey guys, I went into the truck race this past weekend at the TOUR Championships thinking how happy I would be to place in the top 5 with no delusions of holding the TQ spot all day and winning the A-main as well but man I had as much fun as I have ever had at any race in my life. Looking back on the rules situation I've been thinking about it a little more myself so here's my .02 cents worth.
21.5 SPORTSMAN TRUCK-, open speedo but anyone running a computer updated speedo or timing advanced speedo should have a higher minimum weight( 39 oz. should be about right) Make it heavy enough that any advantage gained will be negated by the weight disadvantage but they can run it and learn how to tune their speedo for when they move to a faster class. That way they can have an option to save a few bucks, run an older speedo and still be competitive. Keep the WGT tires, they are great tires and greatly simplify things for the new guys. Keep the SMC battery, its low cost and can be ran to death. This should be a true begginer class and anyone from the faster classes need to leave it alone.
17.5 COT- open speedo, WGT tires or a spec tire of some sort. I watched my buddies at the championship race go through DOZENS of different compounds looking for what was fast and it's really intimidating to someone wanting to move up a class. The speeds of those cars are'nt much faster than a truck. I have played with my speedo some and run pretty dern close to the 17.5 COT times on WGT tires with a truck body, a couple days of tuning and I would have been just as fast so this class would definitely benefit from the WGT tire as a way to simplify things for the guys coming from the truck class and they would also be able to keep their tire inventory from the truck class and current racers can save some money . Battery should be open and approved per the guidelines used this past season. This is a true intermediate class for guys moving up or people with past experience to get their feet wet again, and anyone running this class or faster should be ineligible for Sportsman truck.
13.5- okay this is gonna ruffle some feathers but let these guys run the wedge stlye/high downforce bodies and the big wings. At the speeds these guys are running now this is definitely an advanced class and the cars will benefit from the extra downforce that these bodies provide. Open battery/open speedo that meets the approval process and open tire as well
10.5 and 7.5- these are definitely expert level classes, open body, tire, speedo. Run whatcha brung and hope you brought enough!
As I said these are the opinions of a new guy to pan car racing but maybe some fresh eye's to the sport can give another view. As I said above I had a really great weekend and because I think I'm ready thats probably the last truck race that I'll run unless they decide to give the 17.5 COT class the option of a truck body(wishful thinking but come on Allan, I love the truck bodies!) I feel that anyone winning a major TOUR race in the Sportsman truck class really needs to consider moving up for the following season and thats what I'm gonna do. It's been fun this season guys and I can't wait to do it again this fall! Jamie Mitchell

i think we need to get away from limiting the batteries. Working in a hobby shop has opened my eyes to alot of things. one is the new racers want to buy as little as possiable. we need a place for the new guys to start. you ask a new racer to spend $50 on a 25c then 3 months later he wants to move up and he finds out his 25c isn't cutting it. :(

17.5 1 cell truck with the zero timing rule

13.5 cot 1cell zero timing

13.5 1 cell with Thd chd etc

10.5 1 cell with thd chd etc.

7.5 1 cell

that is all we need.

if your going to limit tires limit it to something the guys can buy from other racers like 3 pinks and purple or 3 whites and black for carpet. but i don't think you need to have a tire rule.

also food for thought. just because you area has 100-150 run line tracks doesn't mean other areas do. so while a motor change like going to 21.5 might make sense in your area it doesn't in others like here in FLA 21.5 on some of the tracks down here will run out of gear.

I agree with all of this. Honestly dont think I couldnt buy a 25c now if i wanted to.

Certainly not because of availability...
First two places I looked had them (stormer and horizon).

ovalstuff.com has them also..

he has ONE Ron

Yep, lot's of them and 1/4 scale too! I have an extra car for you :thumbsup:NO Nitro Cars Right!!!!!!!!!!

At the tour nats this weekend i have heard rumors that thw 13.5 class might go to an open body rule..although i hope it doesnt if it does i would like to see body rules put inplace so that the bodies will be mounted like they should be and not look like dirt modifieds going around the track..but like I said.i would like to stay with the COT!

I agree 100% with this Jody

I think they should not change a thing. They should lock in what we used this season and use it next year.

bodies should be trimed to the cut line, no lower that would fix that issue.

Now as a racer and Not a race director, Rules should stay the same as they have been with only minor tweaks to be up to date with ESC's

Rules the same. Tweak/update ESC rule(s) Lock em in for the year. Update battery rule if needed.

Other than that lets stop changing rules. There is a class for everyone.

I think that we need to leave the speedos alone and alow technology to run its course!!! I know that we all have our opinions abou ROAR and the others but they set rules on batteries and other things and as far as I know speedos are not one of them!!! I can remember when things like the pit wizard came out alot of guys thought that was cheating but come on this is available to everyone how can it be cheating??? Things like the Mamba are lower priced and FREE to update!!! How can you go wrong??? I juist think that we have enough rules and things to tech!!! This is comming from a racer and track owner/director!!! If anyone wants to know!!!
Thanks

i smell a new class brewing............

i smell a new class brewing............

SURE THE SMELL IS NOT COMING FROM THE BACK OF YOUR SHORTS...LOL

only on days when i drink milk...wooooooo

new classes?.....all new classes do is shrink turnouts

.....

Allan, last weekend Mike Boylan ran a carpet race down here in FL, he added a demo class, 17.5 stock car, open body with spoiler only, open tire and esc with tour legal batteries. We had FUN!!!

Mike, give Allan a call and tell him how it was received...

Keep it simple,

21.5 Truck
17.5 COT
13.5 Open Body Mounted Right..
10.5 Open Body

Ritchie Mac

Good Ritchie!!!!!!

Keep it simple,

21.5 Truck
17.5 COT
13.5 Open Body Mounted Right..
10.5 Open Body

Ritchie Mac

And for all of the guys who want to run COT in 13.5... open body means OPEN BODY... run a COT if your faster with it.

+1 :thumbsup: Ritchie

Bill

I loved the COT body in 13.5 last season. But when the speedo issue started the cars were to fast for the body..They always seemed on the edge.. I loved the rubbing we did at the beginning of the season. These are just my thoughts. I really beleive there needs to be a class for the COT body..

Ritchie Mac

It may be ok to keep the current rules package for the trucks. With the ESC manufactures now making the non timing spedos or a profile for 0 timing, It may be ok to leave the truck class with 17.5 motors. The racers would not need to get new motors/stators, or up grade the ESC. The GTB's could be used and help keep this class lower cost.

It may be ok to keep the current rules package for the trucks. With the ESC manufactures now making the non timing spedos or a profile for 0 timing, It may be ok to leave the truck class with 17.5 motors. The racers would not need to get new motors/stators, or up grade the ESC. The GTB's could be used and help keep this class lower cost.

I agree 100% with ya on keeping a 17.5 for the truck class. Like you said it keeps us from having to buy new motors and lets us move up when we are ready. With Tekin and Castle Creations releasing the new software that flashes the LED's when in neutral it's a lot easier to tech the speedo's as well, the tech man does'nt have to hook up a laptop to tech speedo's, just look for the flashing LED's. Another issue is with the quality control on the 21.5's, as the amount of wire increases on the stator it's a lot harder to have consistant inductance and resistance number's. I have three brand new in package 21.5 Ballistic's that I got in trade and there is a HUGE difference in those number's on all three of those motor's so once again your playing the motor lottery in order to get a good one. I think they should leave the truck's alone since it's so easy to tech the speedo's now.
I ran good enough at Minnreg this weekend to have qualified 3rd in the 17.5 COT A-main with my Truck and would have finished 4th based on my lap count and time for the main with NO TIMING. Chassis set-up is crutial in the slower classes because ANY binding or scrubbing of speed just kill's your momentum. The speed's between the two really are'nt that different, I plan on running the open speedo class with the World GT tire's as well. I bumped my speedo into cheat mode in practice and actually turned faster lap times than the TQ and eventual winner of the 17.5 open speedo class and that was with World GT tire's and my truck body, if I could have ran the 40C battery, I probably would have been even faster.

One other thing about leaving the truck class at17.5/ 0 timing. The racer can work on the set up and not need a computer to to be able to race. It can get to be more of a hassell and just adds more confussion to dial in a speedo also.

Lets race cars not electronics!!!!

We just about have the rule package finished, you will see very few changes in the rules package from last year. There will be a 17.5 car class. I hope to have everything up by next week. Thanks for being patient.

I would like to ask any track owner or promoter who has intrest in holding a TOUR race next year to drop me a email, We are developing a series now, alot depends on the intrest of diffrent tracks.

Thanks
Allan

We just about have the rule package finished, you will see very few changes in the rules package from last year. There will be a 17.5 car class. I hope to have everything up by next week. Thanks for being patient.

I would like to ask any track owner or promoter who has intrest in holding a TOUR race next year to drop me a email, We are developing a series now, alot depends on the intrest of diffrent tracks.

Thanks
Allan

PLEASE ALLAN! After talking with all my fellow truck racers we are BEGGING please leave the truck's at 17.5. Pretty please??? LOL!

Hey Allan, gonna throw Rosewood in for a TOUR race on carpet, I know we have one for the summer so why not make it one for winter as well?

One thing more about the Truck class. If the battery were to be the same as what other classes are using it would be one less thing needed to move up to the next class or race more than one class with the same motor, ESC and battery. If SMC can keep the 25c battery in supply for the small market and a manufacture change mid season is not needed, that is ok. You only need one.

Just my opinion
I could be wrong

And don't let the battery companies rebadge the latest or improved version battery.....Like what happen this past year!

Just how do you propose to stop that? Battery companies can print the same label for a new and improved pack and there's no way to tech it.

... open for ideas on this.

Bill

I ran good enough at Minnreg this weekend to have qualified 3rd in the 17.5 COT A-main with my Truck and would have finished 4th based on my lap count and time for the main with NO TIMING. Chassis set-up is crutial in the slower classes because ANY binding or scrubbing of speed just kill's your momentum. The speed's between the two really are'nt that different, I plan on running the open speedo class with the World GT tire's as well. I bumped my speedo into cheat mode in practice and actually turned faster lap times than the TQ and eventual winner of the 17.5 open speedo class and that was with World GT tire's and my truck body, if I could have ran the 40C battery, I probably would have been even faster.

Jamie,

The 17.5 class at Minnreg was 4 laps off the pace of what we ran at Greeneville.

If chassis set up is that critical then maybe it shouldn't be a beginner class or maybe you've gone beyond running it. :wave:

Bill

Jamie,

The 17.5 class at Minnreg was 4 laps off the pace of what we ran at Greeneville.

If chassis set up is that critical then maybe it shouldn't be a beginner class or maybe you've gone beyond running it. :wave:

Bill

Bill,

It is not an apples to apples comparison. Minnrig track is a bit longer than Greeneville. The racers there do not run much carpet and this was the first time for anyone to run the class. Like many, because of the Snowbirds, I also thought that carpet racing was big in FL. The truth is there are only 4 races on carpet a year down there (all at Minnrig).

Jamie's racing program has greatly improved. He has been getting a lot of help from Lauri and others. His car was one of the freeist there all weekend, even getting the attention of Monti, Mike B. and others. :thumbsup:

One thing for sure when racing at Rosewood you bring an A game. Many good racers coming out of that track. Wish I could catch that bug. LOL

Jamie,

The 17.5 class at Minnreg was 4 laps off the pace of what we ran at Greeneville.

If chassis set up is that critical then maybe it shouldn't be a beginner class or maybe you've gone beyond running it. :wave:

Bill

Hey Bill, that was only my 8th event with my pan car. I ran six weekends at Rosewood, the Tour Championships ( TQ and A-main winner) and the Minnreg event this past weekend,(another TQ and A-main win) I love the class! I wish everyone run it, I welcome the more experienced driver's to the class, the only way you can get better is to outrun someone faster and I love chasing people. I'd be cool even if Monti wanted to run it! LOL! Even if I lose 99 race's out of 100, there's always that one where my program was just a little better than everyone else's and I had just a little more luck. I had rather be lucky than good any day! I'm not taking anything away from the guy's that run the 17.5 COT class at all ! Let me clarify myself just a little because I read back over that post and I definitely did'nt mean to come off as blowing my own horn, I want the truck class to stay as is, because if it does, then the next logical class to move up to is 17.5 COT open speedo, which is WAY more logical than jumping into the deep end in 13.5 and becoming a rolling chicane for the other driver's. I feel like I've improved a great deal mainly in part to the guys I race with at the 'wood'! I've always heard that you practice like you play and every weekend all you guys bring the heat and it makes us all a lot better. The truck I had this weekend would have lapped me in Greenville, maybe twice, and it's thank's to a TON of home work and access to Laurie Willis' oval racing encyclopedia!

17.5 Truck limited ESC
17.5 Car COT Body Unlimited ESC
13.5 Car COT Body Unlimited ESC
10.5 Car Unlimited ESC COT or Nationwide Body


I agree battery should be the same for all classes. But we should set the battery and stick with that for the complete season!!!!!! And don't let the battery companies rebadge the latest or improved version battery.....Like what happen this past year!

+1!:thumbsup:

Jamie,

The 17.5 class at Minnreg was 4 laps off the pace of what we ran at Greeneville.

If chassis set up is that critical then maybe it shouldn't be a beginner class or maybe you've gone beyond running it. :wave:

Bill

I just went back and compared my lap time's at Minnreg to the time's for greenville, and even though Minnreg is a good deal larger, it was the same scenario. All I know is it's one of the most free-est( is that a word?) chassis's I have ever seen, it actually look's like it speed's up going into the corner and does'nt bind or bog at all. I can pinch it off and try to bind it and she flow's like water! LOL!

Just how do you propose to stop that? Battery companies can print the same label for a new and improved pack and there's no way to tech it.

... open for ideas on this.

Bill

Bill, that is a good question!!! :beatdeadhorse: In the past it seemed that every new date code for the same cell the numbers got better. We can only hope the Manufactures play fair :(.

When it comes to this I am trying to be "A glass half-full" type person.

Allen...you have a PM.

Just how do you propose to stop that? Battery companies can print the same label for a new and improved pack and there's no way to tech it.

... open for ideas on this.

Bill

The way that has been explained many times on here. You single source on a non-race oriented pack. Doesn't matter, won't happen. At least not for the TOUR group.

The way that has been explained many times on here. You single source on a non-race oriented pack. Doesn't matter, won't happen. At least not for the TOUR group.

Sometimes I hate agreeing with Pat, but he's right. You have to take away the incentive for a manufacturer to make a better product. That means there can't be any competition. The flip side is, his only incentive then is to make it cheaper so he makes more money, and that can mean that the newer packs are actually worse rather than better. So whomever didn't get the first couple date codes would be at a disadvantage. The nice thing is that the market is so small a single date code could last the manufacturer over half the season.

The way that has been explained many times on here. You single source on a non-race oriented pack. Doesn't matter, won't happen. At least not for the TOUR group.

Hey Pat I consider you part of the TOUR Group, Always open for a better idea. what group is doing something different? Does it involve more than one track? Are all of it followers happy with it? I am all for something that makes everyone happy. Let me know.

Allan A

I know its only the begining of June but when do you guys think that the class structure and body selection will actually be ironed out for the upcoming indoor season? has a dead line of any type been established? I know its early yet but i am ready to start testing:) Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just curious.
thanks,
hogue

I know its only the begining of June but when do you guys think that the class structure and body selection will actually be ironed out for the upcoming indoor season? has a dead line of any type been established? I know its early yet but i am ready to start testing:) Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just curious.
thanks,
hogue

Post #337 1 page back.

We just about have the rule package finished, you will see very few changes in the rules package from last year. There will be a 17.5 car class. I hope to have everything up by next week. Thanks for being patient.

I would like to ask any track owner or promoter who has intrest in holding a TOUR race next year to drop me a email, We are developing a series now, alot depends on the intrest of diffrent tracks.

Thanks
Allan

thanks Seven,

sorry about that.... usually i hate sifting through page upon page of posts to get the info i need...... but i think i could have handled 1 page back:)

thanks
hogue

Here's one possible solution to the battery issue. Take the batteries out of every A main car after major events such as ovalmasters or the birds at tech and then cycle the batteries to see if they meet the pre-determined specs. Then announce to everyone who had what battery and make it an official win.

I do think that a two season lock in on batteries would be a good idea. On ESC's, if we limit ESC's timing it is going to end up being a tech nightmare to check even with all of the new easier ways the mfg's are making to see limited timing. There are new programable ESC's hitting the market every day and they're all different. You'd have to know each of them in detail in tech to be able to control.

I say open the ESC's up and change the motor or spec the ESC and motor now for the sportsman truck. Rest of the classes leave em open and lock in the battery for two seasons and let every class run the whatever batteries are approved, no spec battery for the sportsman truck.

Bill

Bill, that is a good question!!! :beatdeadhorse: In the past it seemed that every new date code for the same cell the numbers got better. We can only hope the Manufactures play fair :(.

When it comes to this I am trying to be "A glass half-full" type person.

Fair doesn't sell products Larry. They're in a race of there own. Rules and Tech that works will make racing as fair as it can be but unfortunately money doesn't know the meaning of fair. :freak:

Bill

Here's one possible solution to the battery issue. Take the batteries out of every A main car after major events such as ovalmasters or the birds at tech and then cycle the batteries to see if they meet the pre-determined specs. Then announce to everyone who had what battery and make it an official win.

I do think that a two season lock in on batteries would be a good idea. On ESC's, if we limit ESC's timing it is going to end up being a tech nightmare to check even with all of the new easier ways the mfg's are making to see limited timing. There are new programable ESC's hitting the market every day and they're all different. You'd have to know each of them in detail in tech to be able to control.

I say open the ESC's up and change the motor or spec the ESC and motor now for the sportsman truck. Rest of the classes leave em open and lock in the battery for two seasons and let every class run the whatever batteries are approved, no spec battery for the sportsman truck.

Bill

I think you hit the nail on the head Mr Bill, lock in speedo's for the truck class that either have no timing or a visible way to quickly tech for a no timing profile and that's what ya got for the season, I do wish they would open the battery up to at least 40C and 5000 mah, it's a much better battery and we can pick up the used one's from you guys from last season to save a couple bucks! Lock everything in for the season and be done with it, period. If it's not approved by the cut-off, then hey, there's always next season! LOL! I can't really spec for the other classes as I don't run them currently, but I'm a firm believer in keeping everything as simple as possible for tech, and I think that locking everything in for the entire season would make things SO much simplier for the racer's.

Sometimes I hate agreeing with Pat, but he's right. You have to take away the incentive for a manufacturer to make a better product. That means there can't be any competition. The flip side is, his only incentive then is to make it cheaper so he makes more money, and that can mean that the newer packs are actually worse rather than better. So whomever didn't get the first couple date codes would be at a disadvantage. The nice thing is that the market is so small a single date code could last the manufacturer over half the season.

First of all you love agreeing with me. Improves the odds you're right! :p

Hey Pat I consider you part of the TOUR Group, Always open for a better idea. what group is doing something different? Does it involve more than one track? Are all of it followers happy with it? I am all for something that makes everyone happy. Let me know.

Allan A

The only group I am a part of is oval racers. I like racing, so I show up (more than I can say for most) to races around the country. I may run the races, but by no means is it an endorsement for the rules\structure, in some cases. It's not a personal slight, we all have differing opinions and that's fine, actually it's good. That being said, there is value in recognizing when an idea isn't working and trying something else.

As for my ideas, they are right in this thread, amongst others, in the earlier pages. They got pages of discussion, so I'm pretty sure you saw. If not, then browse through.

Yes, of course, I realize your post was dripping with sarcasm. In case my response had you thinking I was a little slow on the uptake.

Here's one possible solution to the battery issue. Take the batteries out of every A main car after major events such as ovalmasters or the birds at tech and then cycle the batteries to see if they meet the pre-determined specs. Then announce to everyone who had what battery and make it an official win.

I do think that a two season lock in on batteries would be a good idea. On ESC's, if we limit ESC's timing it is going to end up being a tech nightmare to check even with all of the new easier ways the mfg's are making to see limited timing. There are new programable ESC's hitting the market every day and they're all different. You'd have to know each of them in detail in tech to be able to control.

I say open the ESC's up and change the motor or spec the ESC and motor now for the sportsman truck. Rest of the classes leave em open and lock in the battery for two seasons and let every class run the whatever batteries are approved, no spec battery for the sportsman truck.

Nope. Spec one esc and one battery and be done with it there. Stop worrying about which body we run. Raise the weight limit. Consider some sort of tire control. Problems on road to being solved as well as they can be.

For a much more detailed explanation look back in the thread.