Tour folk, I have been running 13.5 COT since last summer, outdoor flat ashpalt oval. Really enjoyed the speeds of this class as with was early on, just about right for my reducing skill set, getting old, 20+ years racin, did not start til I was over 40. I have chosen to not chace the tech stuff. I continue to run an LRP, no data links or pc, just flashing lites. I think a class with those early speeds of 13.5 COT would be good for local racers and a place for the novice to move up to without a huge jump in speeds.

BTW, thanks for all your work in getting a rules platform to work from.

leave the rules as is! No need for change!!!!!That includes the wing on the COT body!

leave the rules as is! No need for change!!!!!That includes the wing on the COT body!
AGREED~!

Tour folk, I have been running 13.5 COT since last summer, outdoor flat ashpalt oval. Really enjoyed the speeds of this class as with was early on, just about right for my reducing skill set, getting old, 20+ years racin, did not start til I was over 40. I have chosen to not chace the tech stuff. I continue to run an LRP, no data links or pc, just flashing lites. I think a class with those early speeds of 13.5 COT would be good for local racers and a place for the novice to move up to without a huge jump in speeds.

BTW, thanks for all your work in getting a rules platform to work from.

17.5 COT is running about the same speeds... maybe a tick slower than 13.5 COT was at the beginning of the season.

I agree with VA Racer:

17.5 limited or 21.5 open for entry class (EXCEPTION - Green BSR Specs)
17.5 COT open
13.5 Nationwide
10.5 Nationwide
7.5 at large races

Limit all new technology to what is available or submitted prior to Sept. 31st for the entire season.

I would also have a standard tech routine that was followed at all TOUR events.

Bill

i agree, drop the COT body for 13.5
just make the deadline sept 1 we start our indoor season early in sept

I also agree that the motors, batteries and ESC's must be approved by Sept. 1st to be run that season. If they aren't approved, they are not allowed til the following season.

This is more important then ANY other rule!!!!:dude:[/QUOTE]


hellz yeah! :thumbsup:

Leave the rules as is! No need for change!!!!!That includes the wing on the COT body!

10.5 with a fixed timing esc would be interesting. Probably about the same speed as 13.5 open, but with a lot more rip.

John

Ok guys,

I'm kinda new to this TOUR thing, but let me jump in here......LOL!!! Now that I am left with nothing but an opinion and a hotline to Allan, I can be a little more objective and less emotional. (If this post came up in Sept 09 I would have been nuts!!)

I'm not going to go into classes or pending decisions, I'm just going to reference a few principles that I learned and steer this conversation to something productive. Here it goes:


First, could someone please save me the time of reading 13 pages and summarize this for me. I'm not trying to be a smart a$$. What I would like to see is if there is any concensus being drawn by the folks posting. In other words, if you took all of the 13 pages of helpful suggestions...does it come to a conclusion....or does the thread just contradict itself so that it goes nowhere. Another way to look at it.........YOU........pretend to be TOUR Director for a day. Leave your opinion COMPLETELY out of it.....and draw a conclusion from the suggestions given here.....and tell me the classes, rules, and specifics that you would come up with....THAT YOU COULD DEFEND IN A PUBLIC FORUM.......if this were all on your shoulders.
Just for fun......post your "complete unofficial TOUR package" like this....................reply with the "Title" as "TOUR Director for a Day - (your name)" Remember, the idea is to keep your opinions out of it. Just use the input you've seen on this post to guide your decision. You may not even agree with the format you come up with. Boy does that sound familiar.Let's see what happens!!

Steve

tour trucks 17.5 1 cell old azz esc's
13.5 open esc new nascar cot bodies
17.5 cot bodies we have now tc wing open esc
10.5 open esc
the rest is too damn fast 7.5 as it stands now open esc

rules set in stone for 9 months starting in sept this goes for batts and esc's

or atthe very least make it a two month window for new crap..if i can't buy it in sept i cant use it in november..the 9 month rule is alot easier.

most tracks around here start in october.... cut off date should be october at the latest.

17.5 Amateur Trucks (remain spec tires, limited timing, 25C)
17.5 Sportsman COT (COTs, open speedos)
13.5 Super Stock COT (COTs, open speedo)
10.5 Modified (stock car bodies with wings)
Pro Modified (stock cars, 7.5 or open modified at big races mainly)

The biggest class at the 'birds and last weekend in Florida at the Speedway race (1/3 the field) was COT... can't see not running this. The last few years the biggest classes seem to be killed off the next year, so let's keep some momentum going. I vote keep the wings and no spoilers. They work now and are simple. Plus Dale came out with replacement wings, we are all set here. Trucks is solid and growing. We need a place for them. 10.5 is working and working very well... Really only seems we need a class above trucks and below the speeds of 13.5 COT, that is where 17.5 comes in. Then keep the 21.5 2S trucks around for an 'Outlaw Modified' class for places that support it...

just seems like around here in the PA and NJ area most guys running 13.5 open COT (which is the biggest class) dont like the COT body and want to change to a nationwide style body for next year, as a matter of fact i believe a bunch of guys are gonna run it at Marshalls on sat. and at the Strand the following week

17.5 Amateur Trucks (remain spec tires, limited timing, 25C)
17.5 Sportsman COT (COTs, open speedos)
13.5 Super Stock COT (COTs, open speedo)
10.5 Modified (stock car bodies with wings)
Pro Modified (stock cars, 7.5 or open modified at big races mainly)

The biggest class at the 'birds and last weekend in Florida at the Speedway race (1/3 the field) was COT... can't see not running this. The last few years the biggest classes seem to be killed off the next year, so let's keep some momentum going. I vote keep the wings and no spoilers. They work now and are simple. Plus Dale came out with replacement wings, we are all set here. Trucks is solid and growing. We need a place for them. 10.5 is working and working very well... Really only seems we need a class above trucks and below the speeds of 13.5 COT, that is where 17.5 comes in. Then keep the 21.5 2S trucks around for an 'Outlaw Modified' class for places that support it...


I agree but instead of checking speedo and policing it cant we just outlaw speedo's and let the newbie buy non adjustable?

Also can we figure out how to keep the transitition from carpet to paved as simple as we can.

I got 3 new people involved in 13.5 cot. and today one of them said to me. Ok so i have to buy a new body now, or i have to buy a new motor to run outdoor? now he is a dirt oval racer and he said DANG cant the classes be the same from indoor to outdoor like DIrtoval? He made a good point. how long before he talks to the other two newbies and they feel the same. Also I got 3 brand new local racers interested and one even buying a new car and complete set up for " 13.5, and he first statement was now i can run this in the winter too right" I said yes most of it. It didnt go over well since he just order a new car.

so please keep the changes simple from the first year to the second. and please keep paved as close to the regular tour rules to reduce the cost for transistioning to outdoor.


Like 13.5 cot bodies with a SUPERTANG WING MOUNTED tot he COT bodies, I do not know. because that is something else i just spoke to him about. He said oh i have to buy a 30.00 wing mount, a wing, wing buttons, and wing rod in addition. another good point for a new racer coming over to run some from dirtoval.

just seems like around here in the PA and NJ area most guys running 13.5 open COT (which is the biggest class) dont like the COT body and want to change to a nationwide style body for next year, as a matter of fact i believe a bunch of guys are gonna run it at Marshalls on sat. and at the Strand the following week

COT, the one thing I beleive is that it leveled the playing field. And that is not such a bad thing. hate it love it, whatever it is all relative. and one body kind of stopped the guy winning one week with a THD then the next with a CHD. and everyone folowing that lead.

i'd have to disagree... the fast guys stayed fast and the slower guys got slower with COT.

[QUOTE=Team T2C;3291806]I agree but instead of checking speedo and policing it cant we just outlaw speedo's and let the newbie buy non adjustable?

Also can we figure out how to keep the transitition from carpet to paved as simple as we can.

so please keep the changes simple from the first year to the second. and please keep paved as close to the regular tour rules to reduce the cost for transistioning to outdoor.

I agree, it needs to be a little more simple.:thumbsup:

Maybe three regular classes, and open mod (7.5 or something)if there is enough to warrant having it. I don't know how it is around the country but , the tracks I've been to, I've only saw them around the time of the big races. :dude:

i'd have to disagree... the fast guys stayed fast and the slower guys got slower with COT.

it still leveled it. just showed some do more work on set up then others

lmao!!!!!!

How does making everyone in COT spend $22 for a new body and $20-30 for a wing help anything? I have a question: What is the best way to mount a Nationwide body? One more question: What is the best way to mount a COT body? I can answer the COT question: BY THE RULES!!!!!!!!!! If you can't get the COT body to work, try working on your chassis setup an/or driving skills!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does making everyone in COT spend $22 for a new body and $20-30 for a wing help anything? I have a question: What is the best way to mount a Nationwide body? One more question: What is the best way to mount a COT body? I can answer the COT question: BY THE RULES!!!!!!!!!! If you can't get the COT body to work, try working on your chassis setup an/or driving skills!!!!!!!!!!!!!

first off i dont run 13.5 COT (hate the body LOL) ive ran 10.5 all year, but since the "mamba: era speeds have gotten a little fast for our track, and alot of guys have agreed , from both 13.5 and 10.5 to run an open body 13.5 class next year and kinda combine both classes
as far as mounting a COT as you say BY THE RULES how many tracks tech the body on a weekly show!!

The Biggest problem is drivers stepping down a class to run 2 classes. I'm talking big events: All this does is push Medium skilled drivers to the lower classes.


With the proposed classes:

10.5
13.5
17.5
trucks

Now the upper level drivers that were in 7.5 and 10.5, now will be running 10.5 and 13.5. This will happen, especially with a body change in 13.5 COT to the same body 10.5 is running.
So all those guys in the COT A-Main at the Bird will run 17.5 COT.....So how does the help!!!!!!



Jimmy, i think this is a point that needs brought out. my goodness a few of us got berated for running 13.5 at the Birds. Just think what the boards will look like if some of us ended up running 17.5 open. And to think that many that ran 13.5 at the Birds ran 13.5 at the Ovalmasters which would be the same speed as the 17.5 open. Cause remember, 10.5 at the OM was the same speed as 13.5 at the Birds. No one cried when Rick killed us in 10.5 then.

[QUOTE=RCThunder;3291539]
17.5 Amateur Trucks (remain spec tires, limited timing, 25C)
17.5 Sportsman COT (COTs,open speedo) (spec tire would be great)
13.5 Super Stock COT (COTs, open speedo)
10.5 Modified (stock car bodies with wings)
Pro Modified (stock cars, 7.5 or open modified at big races mainly)

Just my opinion
As a 17.5 truck driver I would hope to get better In a year or two
but when I see the speeds of 13.5 200 vegas I think I would be
getting In over my head. We need a class to move up to and take
our knowlege of spec tires ,batteries exc.. to the next level.
I already know $$$ = going fast but we really need these classes
to make this sport grow and keep people interested In racing.
Paul Seymour:thumbsup:

17.5 Amateur Trucks (remain spec tires, limited timing, 25C)
17.5 Sportsman COT (COTs, open speedos)
13.5 Super Stock COT (COTs, open speedo)
10.5 Modified (stock car bodies with wings)
Pro Modified (stock cars, 7.5 or open modified at big races mainly)

The biggest class at the 'birds and last weekend in Florida at the Speedway race (1/3 the field) was COT... can't see not running this. The last few years the biggest classes seem to be killed off the next year, so let's keep some momentum going. I vote keep the wings and no spoilers. They work now and are simple. Plus Dale came out with replacement wings, we are all set here. Trucks is solid and growing. We need a place for them. 10.5 is working and working very well... Really only seems we need a class above trucks and below the speeds of 13.5 COT, that is where 17.5 comes in. Then keep the 21.5 2S trucks around for an 'Outlaw Modified' class for places that support it...instead of have two classes with cot's why not make the sportsman class use the nationwide body with spec tires 25c lipo controlled speedo

Thanks for all the input, we will continue to read your suggestions, try and use what is possible. File away the rest of it for future use. Our goal is to tweak the rules if needed, but to not make wholesale changes. Try and continue to have sportsman type classes and (for lack of another word) expert type classes. Everyone will not get everything they want, we found that out last year amoung ourselfs. But we will try and do what is best for the majority.

Hope to see a lot of you at the TOUR Nats. Please support YOUR National Race. You do not have to pre enter, you can make a last min entry.

Thanks
Allan A

ok dumb question, Why so many classes? and my reason for asking is the following. We had the most participants when there were two classes. adding classes may be just reducing the amount of racers.

Correct me if i a wrong but wasnt it 4 classes total back then in two different scales? when pan car oval was huge?

so why do we have 5 or 6 classes?


Just asking dont flame! but i would sure rather go to a race( total 120 racers) with 50-60 in one class then to go to a race where there is 5 clases and only 10-15 in each class.

I do not know about you guys but I do not want to enter PRO mod and say i was in the A main at the birds. Because that is just an entry and i am there. not taking anything away from them. But i would rather say i was 1 in the f main when there is 96 entries then to say i was in the b main with 18 entries

Thanks for all the input, we will continue to read your suggestions, try and use what is possible. File away the rest of it for future use. Our goal is to tweak the rules if needed, but to not make wholesale changes. Try and continue to have sportsman type classes and (for lack of another word) expert type classes. Everyone will not get everything they want, we found that out last year amoung ourselfs. But we will try and do what is best for the majority.

Hope to see a lot of you at the TOUR Nats. Please support YOUR National Race. You do not have to pre enter, you can make a last min entry.

Thanks
Allan A

Thanks for the reply Allen
Glad to see you realize that we need sportsman classes so new drivers
can have a good time and also sharpen their skills without feeling
In the way of the faster more advanced and sponsored drivers.
keep up the good work.:thumbsup:

T2C I am 63 years old, I have been racing for 20 years or better. With the invent or the fast ESC, 13.5 is to fast, tour truck is for beginners I don't belong there. I don't mind being in the f or h main but I don't want to get in the way of the fast racer"s in the heats. That leaves no where to be, might as well quit, but a class like 17.5 with cot body is my kind of speed and many others to. R.C. Thunder had the correct classes named. You may be able to run Mod and 7.5 but, I can't, these classes are for certain people, I admire them and you to if you race them. Enough said thanks very much Flipper

ok dumb question, Why so many classes? and my reason for asking is the following. We had the most participants when there were two classes. adding classes may be just reducing the amount of racers.

Correct me if i a wrong but wasnt it 4 classes total back then in two different scales? when pan car oval was huge?

so why do we have 5 or 6 classes?


Just asking dont flame! but i would sure rather go to a race( total 120 racers) with 50-60 in one class then to go to a race where there is 5 clases and only 10-15 in each class.

I do not know about you guys but I do not want to enter PRO mod and say i was in the A main at the birds. Because that is just an entry and i am there. not taking anything away from them. But i would rather say i was 1 in the f main when there is 96 entries then to say i was in the b main with 18 entries

now i agree with you :thumbsup:

Here in lies a problem with OVAL RACING Rules and Mentality.

Some guys ONLY race CARPET or CONCRETE or PAVED tracks

Some guys ONLY race a track that is 88ft, where other ONLY race a track that is 300+ feet.

The "Old Glory Days" everyone ran STOCK or MOD on these tracks...and found even STOCK (6) cell was TOO FAST for a 88 ft track, although on a 350 ft track it felt like watching PAINT DRY.

For years now people complain "TOO MANY CLASSES", it's NOT about how many classes have RULES Written, it's about building a FOLLOWING in your area of what classes work BEST for your tracks.

Having RULES written for 100 classes, just gives a track owner and group of racers OPTIONS w/o having to create their OWN new rules. It DOESN'T MEAN you have to RUN all 100 classes.

SOME Places LOVE Nationwide type bodies, some love COT's... Some places LOVE Indy Car type cars, and others like to race USAC Sprint type bodies on their pan cars! Does that make them WRONG?

This "IN YOUR FACE" attitude by many of todays OVAL Racers hurts OVAL RACING a lot more than having RULES written and structured for 'Extra' classes!

To be a NATIONAL OVAL ORGANIZATION you would have to have rules in place to work for all OVAL TRACKS...

from the

88ft Carpet BULL RING
170 Snowbirds CLONE tracks (which some people feel is the ONLY OVAL TRACK SIZE THAT COUNTS)
240 ft Asphalt flat track
380 ft 1/4 Scale size Asphalt track
280 ft Banked Concrete Capped tire track

I'm happy to say out here in CALIF. We're getting our Small CAPPED TRACK back soon, plus we have 2 new Carpet Track locations, a Paved Track and a VELODROME. But setting up classes to be able to be exciting for ALL on these 5 VERY Different size and types of tracks is difficult. (17.5 1 cell is good on the 165 carpet - but GEAR IT and ENJOY IT on a 820 ft VELO) YAWN!!!!

Valid points from both Joe and Flipper. :thumbsup:

A Motor, Body, or Battery change isn't too much when traveling from track to track. It is alot better than having to change all three when traveling.

I'm Behind you Allan, and will help in any way.

oval is just not for beginners in the sport of RC!!!!!, i think that may be what we are all missing.

Lets face it: it takes:

Money!!!!!
Patience!!!!!!
Knowledge!!!!!
Techonology!!!!!
TIME!!!!!

To even get close,and then it takes alot more to be consitant and very fast.

So Maybe the focus should be on how to make it more appealing in order to get more experienced racers involved in Oval instead of thinking you are going to get someone to throwdown 2k to go out there and look like a fool. ( Pan car oval has done the opposite, driving people away) Racing is relative! to the RULES!!!

Dirt oval has proven it, and i am on both sides of the fences concerning it. but they put their foot down and spec'ed the classes motor and batt and didnt change, they didnt even consider changes. The cars got faster. Exactly 10 laps from one year to the next at the same race and same track. but no one jumped and said RULES CHANGE!!!

And now they are a success with 9 classes and 537ish entries at the USOW(DEC) and 370ish at the Freeze (feb) in less then 3 months apart.. But nothing has really changed concerning rules for what two years? And dirt guys know what to expect. Just like in the old days of oval. We knew that we had hand out motors and we better bring the best batts for stock class, and you all know the rest.

Also the rules from indoor to outdoor doesnt change in Dirt oval. (just something i want to point out becuase a racer i got into pancar indoor is upset because he has to change just to go out door racing.

I say keep it simple! especially at first, stop changing the rules make them stick for atleast a year or two before changing them again. the tour has the backing and can be good for oval. But let set them , lock them And lets just race.

and just a FYI:here is where the newbies will go and will always go. http://www.easyrc.com/cars-trucks/carstrucks4.html
and that is because they race against their skills and not rules.

Do you even see where they even consider telling a newbie about pancar? on road or oval? heck no it would take a year to explain it and make it simple enough for them to want to run out and buy one. In off road racing If they make it a whole lap and do not need a marshall that is a win for the day. Not a battery, bodies, ESC, Motor, and now seems a car of the week thing.

Oh Btw Happy Easter Everyone!

oval is just not for beginners in the sport of RC!!!!!, i think that may be what we are all missing.

Lets face it: it takes:

Money!!!!!
Patience!!!!!!
Knowledge!!!!!
Techonology!!!!!
TIME!!!!!

To even get close,and then it takes alot more to be consitant and very fast.

So Maybe the focus should be on how to make it more appealing in order to get more experienced racers involved in Oval instead of thinking you are going to get someone to throwdown 2k to go out there and look like a fool. ( Pan car oval has done the opposite, driving people away) Racing is relative! to the RULES!!!

Dirt oval has proven it, and i am on both sides of the fences concerning it. but they put their foot down and spec'ed the classes motor and batt and didnt change, they didnt even consider changes. The cars got faster. Exactly 10 laps from one year to the next at the same race and same track. but no one jumped and said RULES CHANGE!!!

And now they are a success with 9 classes and 537ish entries at the USOW(DEC) and 370ish at the Freeze (feb) in less then 3 months apart.. But nothing has really changed concerning rules for what two years? And dirt guys know what to expect. Just like in the old days of oval. We knew that we had hand out motors and we better bring the best batts for stock class, and you all know the rest.

Also the rules from indoor to outdoor doesnt change in Dirt oval. (just something i want to point out becuase a racer i got into pancar indoor is upset because he has to change just to go out door racing.

I say keep it simple! especially at first, stop changing the rules make them stick for atleast a year or two before changing them again. the tour has the backing and can be good for oval. But let set them , lock them And lets just race.

and just a FYI:here is where the newbies will go and will always go. http://www.easyrc.com/cars-trucks/carstrucks4.html
and that is because they race against their skills and not rules.

Do you even see where they even consider telling a newbie about pancar? on road or oval? heck no it would take a year to explain it and make it simple enough for them to want to run out and buy one. In off road racing If they make it a whole lap and do not need a marshall that is a win for the day. Not a battery, bodies, ESC, Motor, and now seems a car of the week thing.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Flipper, last I checked, the truck class was called the Sportsman division, not the novice class. In honesty it is for both. At our local track, it brought some people who had been out of it for several years. The problem was they changed the rule and opened up the speedos, again making it too fast for some. You may not think that is where you belong, but from what you just said, you are who the class is aimed at.

This is the reason why I think the truck should go 21.5 with open speedos and the 17.5's should be pared with the COT's. Honestly I love the 13.5 class as is, and if Protoform were to come out with a nationwide COT line of bodies, I'd put those on the 17.5's and leave the current COT's on the 13.5's..

Everyone has their own opinions on what should happen, but chances are all those same people will still be racing regardless of what happens. In the end the local tracks need to do what best fits them because the racers are who pays their bills. Locally we will have a new track for 2010/2011 and it has already decided its rules based on what it sees a need for locally. Needless to say if TOUR stays as is, 10.5 will be the only class using TOUR rules.

Hey Shawn - HAPPY EASTER right back at ya! How's the weather back there now?

My CUZ in New York said she had 80 degrees the other day! (They are up by Newfane or Lockport NY)

On the DIRT OVAL Deal - IMHO when it died, or NEAR died a few years (say 20) ago, it was due in large part to getting TOO technical, and TOO expensive.

IT had to basically DIE to fix it... IHMO again, OVAL needs to die the same death to make it better. But, those of us DIE HARDS who refuse to QUIT keep it going, and unfortunately "WE" that are keeping it alive can't agree on things.

LOOK Around at RC in general

26-27 years ago, there was racing...but what cars?

the old 1/12th scales didn't have much to them
the DIRT cars at least where I was...were Tamiya Frogs, or Hornets or something...and some Kyosho cars....then came the Gold Tub RC10. This ONE CAR got used for EVERYTHING.... Dirt Oval, On-Road, Off-Road and even some parking lot oval races.

Being in California, our little dirt track had Brian and Jerry from Custom Works come over a few times, plus the old Racer's Haven track in Bakersfield was pretty much their HOME TRACK I do believe...

Our largest classes then (we had 5 classes in 1985) were 2wd STOCK and 4wd MODIFIED

we did have 2wd MOD and 4wd STOCK and some goofy plastic truck called a Big Bear or something.

Our 4wd MOD Class was 98% YOKOMOs and a couple Kyoshos (ultimas or optimas or something I forget) Our track owner won a couple Dirt Oval NATIONAL championships with his YOKOMO againts the original DOMINATORS from Custom Works (which Custom Works basically BOUGHT from him and give him Custom Works cars to get rid of that thing) Our little tiny dirt bull ring (about 90ft runline) had 13 of the original Custom Works PROTO TYPE Hand Cut 4wd cars - and the guys paid $1,000 each for them in the late 80's. (They didn't care, that was what was NEEDED to beat one)

My question from THAT DAY on has been - Did that, or DOES that make the racing better? We still had the same 30 guys in the class (for about a month) except 13 of them were now putting 2-3 laps on the other guys. (2 months later our 4wd Mod class only had 15 guys running it) MOST of the other got out, the rest dropped to 2wd STOCK and kicked THOSE guys butts.

The Expensive Technology took us from 80+ entries a week down to 35-40 in less than 6 months - and this was 23-24 years ago.

The trend has NOT changed...

I've worn a lot of hats since 1985 when I started RC racing


Local Club Racer - Dirt Oval, Off-Road, On-Road and Paved Oval
Traveling "Organization" Racer, didn't miss a NORRCA Paved Oval Race in the Western States in 5 years, Nevada, Arizona, California. (they had a series, state championships, nationals)
Worked on Rules and Scheduling for NORRCA, and was their Web Master for a few years, along with working w/ JR Sitman behind the scenes for a couple years.
Directing and Promoting MY traveling series, and local club races for the past 10 years.


I took our series to "SPEC" products a few years ago, so at least I could have some control over how the progression of equipment affected some of our racers. Many of these guys are thankful, some aren't..

In general, the ones who aren't are guys who get sponsorship support...or have some other conflict. ie: The travel out of state once or twice a year to a ROAR or other 'big' race.

IMHO: What hurts racers? (Not just OVAL Racers)

Too many confusing choices!
too many tire choices
too many motor choices
too many battery choices
too many class choices
too many TRACK choices
too many BIG RACE choices

Some of these same things hurt Local Hobby Shops.

While some say what I did HURTS a hobby shop, but doing what I did in creating a 'Spec' motor and battery, a LHS only has to stock ONE type of product for our racers.

In the old days a LHS would have a pile of say Pro-Match, TRINITY, ESP, ORION, SMC, etc batteries. (All the same MFG type and mAh) with prices all over the board.

Same thing for Motors... You'd have all the different favorite "TUNERS or WINDERS" motors. KCRacing, KISBEY, TRINITY, FANTOM, PUTNAM, etc. All the same winds...etc.

That made for a LOT of inventory, that many times NEVER moved out the doors.

ONE BODY type, ONE MOTOR Brand, ONE BATTERY Brand (if I had my way we'd be on ONE Tire Brand too)

It's NOT the products that produce GOOD RACING!~ It's the RACERS! That's who I feel we need to keep - even if we went back to busting down an old DUST BUSTER for the motor and battery pack!!

weather is GREAT!!!!

I think oval is dying! And i think the TOUR can save it. BUT ONLY IF the racers say one important thing.

PLEASE "TOUR" SET THE RULES AND STICK TO THEM.

as long as the racers have faith in the TOUR it can be a success.
I have all the faith in the tour. I want the tour to set the rules. it make it easy for me.

I can say go here and look at the classes and rules to race at my track. If there is a question if it is legal, lets look at the rules!

Just like I do for Dirtoval, someone asks I say here is the link. www.diroval/rule blah blah

I only have to carry one motor one batt for the electric spec dirtoval racers. that is it.

As i said, that class got 10 laps faster in one year using the same motor and batts. so that is 10 laps in a speedo firmware upgrade.

I beleive it is maxed out now. I do not beleive speedo will get much better then what they just did!


So, If we could

Agree to one batts (LOL) like the old days ( this will Never happen)
Agree to a " speed difference" (LOL) for the 3 levels I think there shoud be

Then go form there.

I think

17.5 Truck Spec Tire ( open ESC) 4000 25c
13.5 COT OPEN 4900mah MAX
10.5 OPEN 4900mah MAX

this Still would be fine. This allows the fast guys to run two classes(10.5-13.5) and the intermidiate to run two classes(13,5-17.5)and a starter class for newbies.

Competition would be larger and closer then ever! we use IFMAR and resorts, so qaulifying is not a problem anymore.


Simple and EFFECTIVE.

Oh and to keep cost down keep the MAH rating lower then the latest greatest thing. We are not dumping like back in the day when we had to GEAR them down to make 4 minutes. So limit the packs mah for each class it will lower the cost overall for the racers and classes.

Snowbirds, OM let there be a pro open mod! and let those guys amaze us! show us the future two years from now!


Now Joe did thing get more expensive the answer is no. The Tekin 411p and 411K ( brochure right here from 1991) which were the last speedos i bought before leaving cost the same as the RS i am runnning now. As for my futuba radio it is the same cost as my PCM's were. So I do not think it got more expensive. I just think we got way to many choices.

we had sanyo's!!!! we had nothing else!!! heck half my racing career were 1200 yellow cells. now look at roars list. HAHA to buy and test everyone is expensive compared to matching some old sanyos and going racing!

Bunny hop LOL

Heck lipos lowered the cost of racing, only us racers made them expensive. changing and buying the latest greatest. If there were rules that stoped that we wouldnt have the speedo problems or the cost problems.

Simple example, USA OVAL purposed a single batt the 4000 25c. I bet we would have not been as fast as we are now if we would have spec one batt. but then you get the sponsor thing going. oh well worked in dirtoval sponsored understood spec, it worked in the BRL.

it made it simple, it made it affordable.

oh and tires ( that is a joke now)

WE had what yellow, green, blue, Orange and Goomies. i think that was about it.


And caps we had

silver, gold, greens (L-Rs), cant remeber anymore from those rubber band days!!!!

i think we need to get away from limiting the batteries. Working in a hobby shop has opened my eyes to alot of things. one is the new racers want to buy as little as possiable. we need a place for the new guys to start. you ask a new racer to spend $50 on a 25c then 3 months later he wants to move up and he finds out his 25c isn't cutting it. :(

17.5 1 cell truck with the zero timing rule

13.5 cot 1cell zero timing

13.5 1 cell with Thd chd etc

10.5 1 cell with thd chd etc.

7.5 1 cell

that is all we need.

if your going to limit tires limit it to something the guys can buy from other racers like 3 pinks and purple or 3 whites and black for carpet. but i don't think you need to have a tire rule.

also food for thought. just because you area has 100-150 run line tracks doesn't mean other areas do. so while a motor change like going to 21.5 might make sense in your area it doesn't in others like here in FLA 21.5 on some of the tracks down here will run out of gear.

btw have you guys tried to buy a 25c pack. I know that they have been on BO for a while now

4 cell stock was the biggest class for who knows how long and the rules didn't allow any extra timing. you wanna slow the classes down, get rid of the timing and stick with the same motors in all the classes or allow the timing and slow the classes down by going 1 step lower with the motors in every class.

good luck to the tour setting rules. they'll never be able to make the decision that pleases everyone.

one other thing i'd like to see.... some tour races in the northeast or some divisional thing you guys spoke of a couple months ago.

one other thing i'd like to see.... some tour races in the northeast or some divisional thing you guys spoke of a couple months ago.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

i'd have to disagree... the fast guys stayed fast and the slower guys got slower with COT.

I second that. At least on the small tight tracks.

Answer: Make them run 1/12th scale.

cool so the 22.00 for a new body and motor you were unhappy with doesn't compare to making the fast guys buy a 500.00 12th scale car body motor esc and tires huh? :rolleyes:

well as a track owner and not a racer! i want a set of national rules that brings more tacers to the track, I could care less if it make everyone happy!!!!!

i want to be able to tell someone that is thinking of dropping money on pan car oval that it will be the same at least for a 1-2 years before everything you own is worthless.

well as a track owner and not a racer! i want a set of national rules that brings more tacers to the track, I could care less if it make everyone happy!!!!!

i want to be able to tell someone that is thinking of dropping money on pan car oval that it will be the same at least for a 1-2 years before everything you own is worthless.


would changing rules every year help that? I would think stability would. I haven't run the same class for more than a year the last 4 years it seems. stock, then 13.5 4cell, then 21.5 2s, then 10.5 1s. i've had to retool each year. consistency from year to year would go a long way to helping keep racers at the track.

anyone remember how great it was with those orange/green 3300's that we had for like 3 straight years? that's consistency.

would changing rules every year help that? I would think stability would. I haven't run the same class for more than a year the last 4 years it seems. stock, then 13.5 4cell, then 21.5 2s, then 10.5 1s. i've had to retool each year. consistency from year to year would go a long way to helping keep racers at the track.

anyone remember how great it was with those orange/green 3300's that we had for like 3 straight years? that's consistency.

yea kind of my point.

at the end of this thread was a Outdoor Class test video.

17.5 COT SPEC CAP tire Open Speedo

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=3295431#post3295431

As someone new reading this i just want to stop now, sell what I have collected and go back to dirt. It is way easy to understand Spec and Mod there. I was interested in pan car for awhile but everytime I talk to someone about what I need to get this thing on the track its "Just what the rules should be out soon and we will know what we need." All I know is in the dirt oval community I can take my cars to at lease 30 different tracks and the rules are the same. The tour seem to be tring to do that for pan car but don't change them every six months. There were the same whiners when the DODC rules came out but now two years later everyone knows what to bring to race anywhere.

Well Guys, Here is a perfect example. This is Someone I have pushed PAn car oval on. Marc Please Stick in there. we locked the 17.5 COT SPEC tire Open ESC in at 281 and i know you will enjoy it !!!

anyone remember how great it was with those orange/green 3300's that we had for like 3 straight years? that's consistency.

That had NOTHING to do with RULES, they were just THE BEST Battery out at that time - and as SOON as something better came along - BAM! Change!!