: Toro S200 won't start
01-07-2010, 12:32 AM
I volunteered to fix my friend's S200 for him, but I'm not having very good luck. He said it ran last year and it has fresh gas in it, although I don't know if it was drained last year. It would run for a few seconds on starting fluid, so I cleaned the carb. Didn't help. I thought maybe the diaphragm was bad, so I bought a new one. That didn't seem to help. It is stamped with "F", and I found the order the diaphragm and gasket go on the Internet, but when I took it apart the first time, they were the opposite and I don't think it has been taken apart before. I drained the fuel and put new in, and that didn't seem to help. I am getting spark, I'm assuming there is good compression since it started for a few seconds and it ran last year, and I'm getting fuel. What do I do next?
01-09-2010, 03:51 PM
Adjusted carb a little and got it started. Ran it for a few minutes, blew a little snow and it cut out and died. Managed to get it started again, but won't stay running without pressing primer. Where should the adjustment screws be? 1 1/4? They don't seem to work real well there.
01-09-2010, 11:15 PM
adjust the metering arm up a little. did you give the carb a good clean? I would thing 1-2 would be good enough. If it does not throttle up properly then adjust it out a little.
01-10-2010, 01:54 PM
I did clean the carb twice. When I took it apart, the gasket was against the plate and the diaphragm was against the carb and I don't think it had ever been taken apart before. All sources I've seen say they should be switched if it has an "F" stamped on it. And this one does. But I shouldn't change it if that's how it was originally should I?
I tried to start it again today, and it would not start. It only runs a few seconds on starting fluid.
01-10-2010, 06:31 PM
gasket should be against the carb body.
take a straight edge and see how high the arm is. I beleive those should be even with the straight edge.
a little higher will make sure there is more fuel in the metering chamber. a little lower will have less fuel in metering chamber. Also no high enough will cause no fuel to go through.
01-10-2010, 10:37 PM
First off I'm not a small engine mechanic so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.
Which way did you install the diaphragm itself? No not the gasket/diaphragm, diaphragm/gasket question (although I think bec98x is wrong when he says gasket first. - With letter "F" diaphragm should go against carb body) . But which side of the diaphragm faces the carburetor? The side with the big (almost one inch diameter ) washer, or the side with the little pop rivet with a dimple? If I'm not mistaken the side with the big washer should press against the needle valve. (Mine works so I guess I'm right). If it is placed in upside down (with the dimple against the valve) then it may never touch the needle valve to open the intake. The little dimple is too deep.
I ask this because the first time I did one of these I thought the dimple went up because it looked like the needle valve should sit in the middle of the dimple to keep things aligned.
Hope my description makes sense.
01-11-2010, 12:30 AM
That makes a lot of sense. I have the small dimpled side towards the needle. I will switch that tomorrow and see what happens.
01-11-2010, 08:13 AM
Sometimes even the diagrams are wrong. But what I also take from it is that maybe your friend tried to replace the kit or had someone else before you give it a try which usually causes headaches. I just scratch my head when a customer brings in parts torn apart and asks us to fix it. You said you cleaned the carb and I assume to blew out all the ports when you had it apart (varnish can cause a lot of fuel issues). You also said the gas was fresh....but I have seen fresh gas with water in it. With snow blowers...its an instant freeze once you take it outside to try and blow the snow.
What we usually do is drain all the gas even if a customer says its fresh and replace it with what we know is fresh. While there, we check the tank to make sure there is noting floating in the tank that could cause it to plug the whole...it happens a lot with older metal tanks.
We then check for spark with a new gaped plug.
Next is the primer bulb...is there any wear or cracks that can cause air leaks.
Next...fuel line, again any wear or cracks...these are cheap fixes.
Next...drain everything out of the carburetor including any possible water, check the float to see that its working properly and doesn't have a pin hole in it.
Next...pull the needle valve and blow out ports.
Next...do a carburetor kit if it looks worn and check gaskets
Next...if all that doesn't take care of the issue, you may have to replace the whole carburetor as it may have a hairline crack in the body caused by water in the gas expanding.
Hope that helps...
01-11-2010, 01:12 PM
It would help if you posted the engine model number, codes and serial number usually found on the engine shroud just above the spark plug. Have a good one. Geo
01-11-2010, 07:44 PM
I tried putting the washer looking side of the diaphragm towards the needle and it still only ran a few seconds on starting fluid. I know it is possible, but do you suppose I got a bad diaphragm?
Toro S200 Mod: 38120 Ser: 9149863
01-11-2010, 08:34 PM
The numbers posted are for the snowblower, not the engine. The engine info will be more like AH520,AH600 or HSK600, although the 38120 shows having a AH520 that is no guarrante it is on your blower. Have a good one. Geo
01-11-2010, 09:04 PM
Yes it is an AH520.
01-11-2010, 11:08 PM
The manual for your engine is in the link below, the carb is covered on about page 4. You may have an air leak and all the carb fixing in the world won't help that. If you can keep it running for a short period spray carb behind the carb and along all of the crankcase mating surfaces, if the engine tempo changes you have found a leak and can take th appropriate action, you may have a bad gasket between the carb and the block. Have a good one. Geo
01-11-2010, 11:50 PM
I did wonder if I had the carb on tight. The only way I could get one of the nuts holding the carb on off was with vise grips, so I don't really know how tight I got it back on. Is there any special trick in getting to these nuts?
01-12-2010, 12:04 AM
Ok - round 2.
We have the diaphragm next to the carb body.
The metal disc next to the needle valve.
Then the gasket. Then the primer plate.
Push the primer until you hear a "squishy" sound which indicates gas has gotten down to the carb from the tank. If you hear just air then either the gas line is blocked or the primer isn't moving the diaphragm to open the needle valve, or the gas cap is not venting. If it's the cap just loosen it enough to allow air in. Try priming again.
If still nothing it might be the "check ball" as shown in diagram 8 on page 9 of the manual that geogrubb attached to his message. If this is rusted shut/clogged you "might" run at idle but you most likely will not run with any throttle. Looking at the same diagram the path for gas at idle goes up the far left. The main "power" flow goes up past the check ball.
Also make sure the throttle plate is opening the right way IF you have the 3 teeny tiny holes on the inside of the main bore. Otherwise it may not matter.
These are represented in the drawing as 3 little cirlces in a straight line inside a bigger circle. As the throttle plate opens it should reveal these barely visible holes one by one as the plate goes INTO the bore on the same side as the holes. This allows the engine to draw more and more gas as each one is revealed. When you go full throttle the gas from these is small compared to what should be coming out of the check ball opening.
And of course you tried geogrubb's trick of spraying carb cleaner to temporarily seal gasket leaks which prevent all of this suction from happening in the first place.
Got it running yet, I'm tired. LOL
01-27-2010, 11:29 PM
I ended up putting the old diaphragm back in to see what it would do and it started right up. It kind of surged for a minute or two until it warmed up, and then it seemed to run fine. I started once for a couple days, and then I went to start it a few days ago. It started, but it just surged for a few minutes and died. I couldn't get it started after that. I couldn't remember what I was supposed to do with the carb cleaner and the gasket, so before all of this I just sprayed some around the gasket. Whether or not that made it start, I couldn't tell you. I haven't tried that again yet, but I wondered if you think this could mean the gasket is bad?
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