1/4 Scale Manufactures are always on the edge on designing parts to be cost effective. There is technology out there to improve the cars,but at a cost. Such technology could be made available. Id like to start a general discussion of customers thoughts of the subject.

My immediate thought is softer dirt tires.

Maybe tires that "air up" are out of the question but maybe plastic beadlocks on the wheel halves and then a regular tire with a soft foam insert?

Maybe there are not near enough dirt tires sold for a return on investment...I dont know but I would imagine most guys would pay a little more for better performance on dirt and that may even promote more dirt racing.

This is not to say that I dont like what you are doing currently because that is not the case at all. :thumbsup:

I think that would depend on what exactly the technology is effecting, the benefits and the cost.

For reference, look at the mess the 1/10 scale brushless world is entering right now. There is a speed control that is definately faster but at a cost of almost twice what is out there now.

You quartscale guys have it REALLY GOOD right now. Simple rules, good competiton and great fun.

Do NOT screw it up by "improving" something for the sake of speed.

For example, say you guys opened up your tire rule by eliminating the mandated tires. This would allow you to make softer/grippier tires. That in itself would bring the lap times down. But at $200 per set of tires, I can full well see that some guys would not hesitie to have super soft qualifying tires and even have a new set every round. This would make it rediculous to be able to race. $1000 for a weekend to race a toy car? Now way!

Now the above senario is by no means meant to slam anyone, only one such example I pulled out of thin air, or somewhere else ;).

If you guys want to keep your racing close and like it is, make baby steps, little tiny baby steps when making changes. And REALLY think about those changes.

IMHO the biggest thing that needs to be done to promote Quarter Scale racing is to make it more visible. This is true for all scales.

You want more people to see and know about this stuff? Well they are not coming to us, for the most part. We must take it to them. How do we do that? Call the local news stations and newspapers, let them know of your scedule and keep bugging them. There are slow news days that they will come out and do a feature on us. Try buying that advertisement on TV.

Another way is to take the cars to a more visible location and put on an exibition race. Leave the computer at the track and take a flagman. Apporoach a local strip mall or big parking lot to set up a race. I know in the past there has been some resisitence to this, but the economy is down and lots of these palces are looking for something/anything to get people in the stores. Don't you think this would be a draw? I heard all the reasons for not doing it, insurance, too dangerous and "we build this track and we are NOT going parking lot racing when we have this track". And that same guy is griping about no new racers. :rolleyes:

When talking to the property manager, take a car or two with you. Be ready to run them in the parking lot and show them how they work. Most of all when doing the exibition, tone it down, for safety reasons. Only 3-4 cars at a time, reduce the speeds and always have cars on the track and people working the crowd, explaining what we do. Have flyers with the info on them. Bring all the trailers and the loudest PA system you can carry.

IMHO, this will do more for racing than any single product you can come up with.

Mr. Bishop, I apologize if this hijacked your thread. If you like I will be more than happy to delete this and move it to another thread.

Harper, We actually have a tire available that is a one piece molded ,pin spike,tire with a soft core. We've done quite a bit of playing with "air" tires,with the parts we have available, there just not dependable. It will take molds specific to make it happen.
Scott H, Promoting the sport is the best thing we could do, problem is it takes alot of volunteers and money to make it happen. The economy has hurt most everybody, all we can do is to be persistant and go that extra effort to make us grow.
Let me add some words to the subject: If you were able to purchase "better parts" for your factory built Race cars, either made by the manufacture,or aftermarket, should it be governed by design or dollar amounts or let it fly?

You said improve the cars, or is it to improve the tires, which would improve the cars. Maybe a little more info if you could. Might help the thread from getting off your specific topic:thumbsup:. Got me curious more than anything.

Are there not aftermarket replacement parts for the cars now?

Do you have to run the chassis as made? I do not think so, I believe I heve seen cars advertised of brand X with brand Y steering assemblies. Or something like that.

Isn't Freddy already going down this road? Making parts for all the cars out there? I believe he is making the parts to OEM specs for the respective cars but I am not sure. Now what if he were to find that moving a mounting point was an advantage, that would be a NEW part. Is there a QSAC rule that prohibits this? I think there is an "impact" rule, I will have to look.

Correct me if I am wrong Todd but I think you are refering to the part of the Impact Parts Rule that talks about "excessive cost verus benefit to the racer".

Are you asking if the rule should be lifted or governed in a different manner?

Brent, I wasn't asking to change rules.
Lets take clutch bells for example. If you were able to purchase a trick clutch bell that was significally lighter than stock, and it costs $100.00 would you like that option as long as it was available to anyone? They are out there already!!

Todd, great topic and glad to see you here. My opinion is that 1/4 scale as a hobby almost does not justify its own manufacturing. In another words... there are lots of GREAT 1/5 scale parts on the market today that could be used in our application. They would be cheaper, lighter, easier to get, etc... I am also suprised that the chassis in most cases (except larry cross) are still tube chassis. All the scale appearance has been cut off those chassis. WCM has tried to bring that back with their cage car, but other then that, their is NO reason to make them out of tubing. Aluminum chassis would be cheaper and much easier to produce. With these changes cars could possibly sell in the $700-$800 range, thats the most economical way to make the hobby grow again.

NOW... if someone had, lets say 500k to invest into the hobby. I would say building competitive SCALE looking cars would be a great idea. Lets face it, thats what attracted all of us to this scale to begin with. The cars need to be just as fun to look at when sitting there then they are to drive. With the proper funding, I believe a SCALE car WITH rear end could be produced and sold in the $1200 range.

Sorry Todd I'm not trying to give you a hard time but that is what the Impact Part committee is supposed to determine.

Having said that I am also curious about what the membership feels is too much for "better parts" but I think has to be broken down by what parts we are talking about. In your example I wouldn't spend the money because I spent a lot of time and effort playing with lightened shoes, for two reasons, later engagement and less rotating mass. Not to mention that it was a legal area to play in with GN. After all that effort I found that the stock shoes work just as well. If there was a difference it was simply so small I couldn't quantify it. Are there other parts of the car that could use improvement? I'm sure there are. Would I spend the money? Probably because that's the nature of competive racing.

reading this again, I guess I went off topic quite a bit.

I dont think any price is too high for any part. If you have a trick widget that is awesome someone will buy it at ANY price. Just because someone has dumped 8 grand into their car does not mean they will beat the 1200 dollar car. Now look at the bigger picture and impact that selling high dollar hi tech parts has... It will ultimately make the hobby grow. Hop ups attract people off all scales and lets face it, that is where the money IS made, motivating more people to produce more stuff while bringing people into the hobby that have significant expendable income.

Holding this scale back by 20 years by mandating outdated parts and technologies is not the way to go. It seems to me, the only real big change in cars over the past few years is shock positioning... how boring..

The person setting up there own car is the one making changes. Shim it this way or whatever. This is change. Or are you wanting a Lengend class? Stronger replacement parts I'm all four that.

Todd bishop said,
"We actually have a tire available that is a one piece molded ,pin spike,tire with a soft core."

If that is the soft tyre I have Todd, then at speed it certainly "grows". Looks just like a full-size sprinter! I love it!
I would like to see a similar tyre, in some different stagger sizes for the left rear, As Jeff said, there is probably not the market for the R&D required on dirt tyres at this stage.

Jeff said..."I dont know but I would imagine most guys would pay a little more for better performance on dirt and that may even promote more dirt racing."
I agree with Jeff... I would pay for better performance, which in turn makes for better racing which in itself is a terrific promotional tool.!

Anyway...Having said that Todd Bishop makes a superb product.

Thanks Bob for that! You guys are right about tires, the market is not large enough to support making non profitable tooling. I do have a desire to make something new for the dirt!

I have to agree with QSL! The 1/4 scale technology is stuck in the 70's with such items as the shocks, we need more realistic shocks like XRay makes for their 1/10 scale touring cars. They are like a real Koni shock, you can adjust the rebound etc. the body's also are not up to par anymore, they really need some updating, make them look more like a modern late model stock car or a cup car?? The more realistic they look the more the general public can relate and are more apped to get interested in thus making the sport grow! gust my 2 sence!

No disrespect on the ones that say this is what 10th scale done the only thing they did was kill it I know that's were I came from the shocks we have are great and user friendly the bodys we have work 3 different ones that have different handling aspects shopping carts need to stay at the store we are not worried about driver safety unless bob elliot's driver comes out of his sprint there is some things in chassis geometry that could change but its not bad the way it is

Well said WILLY

1/4 Scale Manufactures are always on the edge on designing parts to be cost effective. There is technology out there to improve the cars,but at a cost. Such technology could be made available. Id like to start a general discussion of customers thoughts of the subject.Hi Todd,
I was just wondering what "technology is out there but at a cost".

This is no way picking on you.


For flat parts waterjetting is the cheapest way to go.Less material waste means more parts.Cheaper per part.Example:A-Arm $5.00 But the part needs to look pretty.So one can race.
CNC Milling Center with a palet changer.Saves time but someone needs to load an unload the palets.

Round parts CNC is ok. But a person needs to feed the machine.Unless it has a bar feed.Screw machines have bar feeders.Put the 12ft bar in then walk away.Example:Shocks $8.00 complete no spring.Springs can be made for pennies.I do mean pennies.

Plastic injection molding i already told you what i can get rims made for.Tires one phone call that was all i made.Just like the anodizing call i did for Freddie.

Do i want to make rims or tires no.

All that is needed.Would be for the manufactures to work together.Each one would make certain parts.
Example: One would make frames for everyone.A-Arms made by one guy for everyone.I think one can get my idea.

I saw a website say all parts are made in house.Then why is the price so high for the cars.Not picking just wondering.
For the dirt tires i have a couple of ideas there.Like Todd said tooling is not worth the expense.For tire demand.

For QSL and the Larry Cross frame. I wonder what i charged him?? And its cost to make.

Then it would be time to Advertize again.When QSAC or 1/4 scale was in their best years.Why was it?

I am not against anyone.Just Facts
I know its bashing time.It will be ok.


Just my few cents.
Ed

Dam Ed I can't believe you said bar feed screw machine reminds me that I use to have a job and nightmares of operating 3 of them LOL

Dam Ed I can't believe you said bar feed screw machine reminds me that I use to have a job and nightmares of operating 3 of them LOL

Brown&Sharpe Double OGS

They were cam driven.Somtimes one could use the same cam for different jobs.We had a 6 spindle also.Different machine forgot the name.
A Traub screw machine with bar feed 20,000 pcs a day.

Ed

For those people who don't know Terry Rae, he was the original designer/builder of the Lightning car. In talking to him the other day, he mentioned that it was 13 yrs ago Lightning was born, and it still is the basically the same design as it was then.
All of the cars built today are very competitive with each other, it all comes down to knowledge of setup, also driver ability doesn't hurt!
All cars have made baby steps with improvments over the years.
If you could see the races from 15 yrs ago, you wouldn't believe the differance in driver quality today.
The only way to know the future of Qsac is to hear ideas from racers on what they want to see in products. Politics or other call Brent............ :)

Ed I ran conomatic and ACME-Gridley 1 5/8's 8 spindle manual adustment and chucking 20 foot sticks

on the cup cars id like to see a cot car but it be a three piece body a front rear and a cockpit or birdcage section that way you can just buy the section you need to replace and paint it and go

If it is made stock up on the nose pieces cause you will replace every time you hit the track to run that frontend it is a tuning tool and if you bump in to something it will get broke with the materials we have to work with ABS, lexan, and composite

I would love to have a quarter scale set of these: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOSA5301

Easily replaceable double o-ring seals and bushings with a knurled cap on the bottom end. Other features include titanium nitride coated shafts, built in ball bushings, o-ringed cap seal, and an internal volume compensation bladder that keeps the oil and air seperate. I run these on some of my 1/10 electric dirt oval cars and love em. I would like be willing to pay $300-$400 for a set of these of my GN, but at that price would they be allowed? Could a mfg even make these and sell these at extremely low volumes and make a buck at that price?

Ed I ran conomatic and ACME-Gridley 1 5/8's 8 spindle manual adustment and chucking 20 foot sticksThats cool.I am not that fimliar with that machine.Do you have recess lighting in your home?If you do i made tooling for the spining lathe.Then made the Punch and Die to cut the window or opening in them.Operating Room lights 42.00 inches in dia.Also the big lights you will see at ball fields


The r/c stuff is nothing.


ED

Todd
great topic, and something that probably should be addressed within the impact rule as to HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH ?

i think what Todd is asking( if im wrong Todd let me know) is if a tire or a shock was made or could be made and they cost $200 each, should QSAC allow that part to be used or is that too much money for the average Joe Racer to spend, or feel like he would have to spend to keep up with the guys who do have them?

Have we kept ourselves in the stoneage by trying to keep cost down?
Is this hurting us and keeping number of racers down?

Ed manual machines are a lost art the ones I ran were world war 2 tech its hard to find someone that can run them but glad I had the chance because it is something to fall back on and not anybody can do it

I would love to have a quarter scale set of these: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOSA5301

Easily replaceable double o-ring seals and bushings with a knurled cap on the bottom end. Other features include titanium nitride coated shafts, built in ball bushings, o-ringed cap seal, and an internal volume compensation bladder that keeps the oil and air seperate. I run these on some of my 1/10 electric dirt oval cars and love em. I would like be willing to pay $300-$400 for a set of these of my GN, but at that price would they be allowed? Could a mfg even make these and sell these at extremely low volumes and make a buck at that price?

They are called 10mm. What part of the shock is the 10mm.
ED

Ed manual machines are a lost art the ones I ran were world war 2 tech its hard to find someone that can run them but glad I had the chance because it is something to fall back on and not anybody can do it
Willy not trying to compete with you. Just don't take this the wrong way.I used a 1941 monarch lathe.In the 80s i could hold .0005 with no problem.Everyone tried but they could not.With dial calipers.I had one job.That had to be concentric id to OD and face the .0005. it never got rejected.We had jobs that were suposed to be heat treated and ground to size.I turned it after teat treating.With just a brazed carbide tool.
These days one needs a CNC background before they get hired.

ED

Todd
great topic, and something that probably should be addressed within the impact rule as to HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH ?

i think what Todd is asking( if im wrong Todd let me know) is if a tire or a shock was made or could be made and they cost $200 each, should QSAC allow that part to be used or is that too much money for the average Joe Racer to spend, or feel like he would have to spend to keep up with the guys who do have them?

Have we kept ourselves in the stoneage by trying to keep cost down?
Is this hurting us and keeping number of racers down?

Mike, I think this has hurt 1/4 scale alittle bit. The only thing is, I cant really see how we can have anything much different. There's only so many ways to build the cars in thier current state. I mean things like 4wheel disc brakes for front/rear bias, Bodies that look like something you can see racing sat. nights at your local track. (I hate the C.O.T ) but something like a fivestar type latemodel body or something. PRC had a ASA outlaw body that looked just like a local LM. The roof lines on the cars today are WAY to low for scale.

Look at 5th scale. They have all kinds of stuff out there. People say we have to much power now. there power to wieght is alot different than ours. So is there price. But people spend the money and they race them. $250 clutches, $450 hydro brakes, they have technology and people spend the money. Hell look at boats, $3000.00 for a twin cly. engine, I seen a guy with two of them in the back of a boat. Well sorry to get of topic just some thoughts to ponder.

For those people who don't know Terry Rae, he was the original designer/builder of the Lightning car. In talking to him the other day, he mentioned that it was 13 yrs ago Lightning was born, and it still is the basically the same design as it was then.
All of the cars built today are very competitive with each other, it all comes down to knowledge of setup, also driver ability doesn't hurt!
All cars have made baby steps with improvments over the years.
If you could see the races from 15 yrs ago, you wouldn't believe the differance in driver quality today.
The only way to know the future of Qsac is to hear ideas from racers on what they want to see in products. Politics or other call Brent............ :)

Todd, this is true. The sportsman cars today are probly as fast as the baddest cars back in the day. But dont you think somewhere along the line they have just lost there big appeal they used to have? Now people just see how big they are and thats as far as the WOW factor goes. Back then it was "look at that it has a chassis like a real race car, It even has a littlequick change rearend".

The cars are alot better today, Alot of that is becasue of you. The tires are lightyears ahead of tires from way back, that helps tremendously.

We are in such a small box when it comes to technology and design now.

What do you have up your sleeve for dirt? :)

To quote Todd...

If you could see the races from 15 yrs ago, you wouldn't believe the differance in driver quality today.

Hell yeah..he's dead right.
I suppose we were all new at it back them! I have a couple of videos of major Australian races from the mid/late 1990s and everyone looks to be racing at 1/2 pace. With the improvements in every aspect, right across the class, the speed and consistency these days is quite amazing.
And yes...I'll ask also.. "What do you have up your sleeve for dirt?"

OK, I have to chime in here and it looks like I will be in the minority. Please do not do anything that will make racing 1/4 scale more expensive, either to get into or stay in. When ever you talk to new people about racing and you get around to price and you say it costs about $1000, you just lost most of them, yea there is money out there and I have seen people spent tons of money on smaller cars, for example I talked to a new guy in 1/10 scale, he said it cost him $700 to get into this hobby, that is why 1/10 is struggling, they have priced out the average joe racer from the hobby, a hobby can only go so far with the deticated racers and no average joes racing. What 1/4 scale does have going for it is dependability and stability, that is what drew me to the hobby, I do not have to update my chassis evey year or two, unless I want to. I can take my 10 year old chassis and still race it and be competive, we do not have problems with the motor of the month, battey of the week and tire of the day like smaller scales. Now 1/10 has tried to fix their problem but it cost is up there now.

What I do believe we need is to promote this great hobby of ours that we love so much, get it in everyones face and have fun with it, You can see it in other scales, they grow and decline based on visability.

By the way the 1/10 scale guy I talked to.....did not even know 1/4 scale excisted until I told him I raced them. After explaining everything to him and cost of the hobby, he said he wished he would have ran into me sooner, he would have rather spend $1000 on a 1/4 then spend the $700 on 1/10.

By the way.......Why are these cars and parts not in the hobby stores? (visibility)

One problem of no hobbyshop selling a 1/4 scale is none of the current 1/4 manufactures produce 10th,12th, 5th or 8th scale cars if they did they would be on the shelves just look at the HPI buggy mostly plastic and composite plastic cost just as much but that name has been around and folks are familiar with that in smaller scales that's why they stock it

Im entitled to a opinion,so let me share my thoughts! If we stay with the basic cars throughout the classes, the sport will never grow. Thats like going to a candy store and only being able to buy yellow suckers. There should be a class with a stable set of rules for the up and comming racers. Lets call this class Sportsman for now. As i've seen in other posts, if a sportsman driver wins so many races, they will be required to move up the fence to the next class. We don't want pro's running Sportsman. The rules should also be tightened up,absolutley stock components,as supplied from the manufacture of your choice. That also encourages manufactures to build a car better than another manufacture.
G/N class should be able to cut loose, stock frames,again,(to help manufactures stay in business,which may encourage the customer to buy a newer model) no mods, but be able to purchase aftermarket items like trick clutchs, bells, shocks,bumpers.
There has to be a give and take. You have the people with limited budgets,but there is also people with large amounts of money, that will in the long run make us grow.

I would love to have a quarter scale set of these: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOSA5301

Easily replaceable double o-ring seals and bushings with a knurled cap on the bottom end. Other features include titanium nitride coated shafts, built in ball bushings, o-ringed cap seal, and an internal volume compensation bladder that keeps the oil and air seperate. I run these on some of my 1/10 electric dirt oval cars and love em. I would like be willing to pay $300-$400 for a set of these of my GN, but at that price would they be allowed? Could a mfg even make these and sell these at extremely low volumes and make a buck at that price?

Scott here is a set, Little over $100 for 2 sets, No air or bleeding, Have run over a half a season without rebuilding and still had no air in them, $10 rebuild kits for 2 shocks with shafts and seals. Been running these on all my cars and sprint. Had to make a 15 MM extension to be same size as a WCM but has 4 MM more travel.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSKD9

This might not be the right one but I have the part # at home it was $109 for 8 shocks used WCM shock ends on the shaft.

Joey

There are no 1/4 scales in hobbyshops because you can't make any money on them. Take a 1/10 scale car. you have four cars that cost you $1450.00 you sell them, and you profit around $435ish. You buy a 1/4 scale car and it cost you $1350.00 You sell it you profit $100.00. The four cars will sell ten times faster than the 1/4 scale. So what would you do? The manufactures dont want to sell these cars at a "dealer rate" or they cant I dont know which. I do know when I first got into racing 1/4 scales I really liked the chassis I had and wanted to be a dealer and they did'nt even offer a dealer program. Thats a big problem for promoting. Back years ago you could buy Raco's from tower and great northern hobbies out of NY.

Todd, I agree 100%.

Another way I think the manufacturer could help us all out is by offering cars as kits. That would cut down on time for them which would make the cars alittle cheaper. Instead of assembling cars they could be building other parts, chassis or whatever. Just an idea. I know they would have to make a manual but they would only have to do that once. Just an Idea.

I'm relatively new to the hobby, (4 years) so I really don't know from where we have come, but here's my opinion for what it's worth. I'm and average joe, with a very slightly better than average income. I started racing R/C for fun, and do so on a very limited budget. I just can't justify spending a whole lot more than I do now. I buy one set of tires, and try to stretch them out for the season. Every now and then, some one will throw me a bone, and I'll run that till it's down to the foam. Otherwise, I am done for the year when my tires are gone. Good parts that are durable are most important to me. I can't pay $240 for the quality shocks that are available now. If QSAC wants to have a GN class where $$$ are the name of the game, that's fine with me. But we need a sportsman class for us guys that want to race, be competitive, and have fun with out spending thousands of dollars a year. We are already an eliteist club, and that will never change. But if you make it even more expensive to participate than it is now, I for one will have to get back on the porch.

David P

dpopham, I agree. There has to be a sportsman/limited whatever you want to call it class. There needs to be a starting place for every budget and skill level. But on the same token there needs to be a class where people who have the money, experience, and knowledge can run as well. There just isnt a big gap between any of the cars today, like there used to be. We need to keep who we have but we need to draw in more people also. I think a more open class would help that.

I say there is something to be learned from 1/5 scale. You run what you brung. There are $700 cars and $3000 cars on the same track. Little restriction to what you can do to the car. This is from my local experience with the HPI Offroad series track over here. It seems extremely successful as well.

I think taking the OBAMA approach to RC just does not fit. Everyone CANT afford to do it. To hold back the hobby so a few people can at the cost of losing higher expendable income participants just is not cool. I cant afford a ferrari. I dont see them putting plasic 10" wheels on their cars and droping in geo storm engines just so I can barely afford one... you get my point.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that back in the hayday of 1/4 scale, there were a lot more people involved with more money to spend. That translated into tooling and parts that would not have been possible if it were not for them. This is the type of hobby where it does not make sence to spend 10-15k on a tire mold as todd stated above. So the only way to get that tool is either a person with the skills to MAKE that mold gets into the hobby and does it knowing there will be virtually no payback OR someone with a lot of expendable income funds it because they think its cool.

Well, like I said, we are an eliteist club or group, and that will never change. The metro area here has a population of approx 250,000 and we have maybe 4 members/racers for the area. And I'd say all but maybe 1 fit in my catagory.

I just hope there will always be some guys around that like to take our $500 - $800 beater cars and come have some fun.

Please explain why you consider us eliteists. How are we more elite than any other r/c group or any sport/hobby group for that matter? Thanks.

Maybe it's not the best choice of words. what I'm saying is the Montgomery metro area has a population of about 250,000-300,000 and we have about 4 local members, local being 30-50 miles. I'm not saying 1/4 scale is any different than any other hobby. I'm just saying if you don't try to include average joe in your plans by minimizing costs, I don't see the sport, hobby, organization or what ever you call it, growing much beyond what it is now. But that's just me.

I think it would be benificial if 1/4 scale WAS for eliteists. I believe that was the fact during the late 80's into the mid 90's but now and days other scales are just as expensive and more high tech. 1/4 scale needs something to seperate itself from the other competition. Size alone is just not cutting it. Again, when I show someone my collection and they start asking how much this stuff costs... they have a wierd look on their face when I show them a basic belt driven GN and tell them they run in the $1500 range. Now when I show them my full cage delara with rear end, tuned pipe, steering wheel and gauges and tell them something like that sells in the $2500 range used. They respect it.

Not trying to make anyone mad here, just stating what I have observed over the years. Trying to be honest!

To me, what separates 1/4 scale racing is being able to race all out, without having to use a dustpan to collect a $2500 car if I am involved in an incident on the track. I like the fact that if I get turned into the wall, most of the time the most that happens is to break a $3.00 hiem joint and maybe a plastic bumper.

Back to the orginal question though, I would pay a little more for something If there was a quantitive value attached, such as improved durability or performance. But lets not make things more complicated or delicate for the sake of making them more complicated or delicate.

[QUOTE=QSL;3065995]I think it would be benificial if 1/4 scale WAS for eliteists. I believe that was the fact during the late 80's into the mid 90's but now and days other scales are just as expensive and more high tech. 1/4 scale needs something to seperate itself from the other competition. Size alone is just not cutting it. Again, when I show someone my collection and they start asking how much this stuff costs... they have a wierd look on their face when I show them a basic belt driven GN and tell them they run in the $1500 range. Now when I show them my full cage delara with rear end, tuned pipe, steering wheel and gauges and tell them something like that sells in the $2500 range used. They respect it.

Not trying to make anyone mad here, just stating what I have observed over the years. Trying to be honest![/QUOTE


Which track do you race at the most?

I rarely go out and race anymore due to lack of interest in my part. Turnouts are low and the track that was just built a couple years ago has been converted to 1/5 scale. Southern california. Why? Does this differ track to track??

I have raced ¼ scale cars for quite a few years. I remember the quick change rear ends and the cars with aluminum chassis. I always thought they looked good but weren’t nearly as good for racing as the steel chassis and belt drive systems we have now. With RC is seems the closer you try to get to scale the worse the RC vehicle performs. I also fly airplanes, helicopters, have raced 1/10 and 1/8 scale cars and this has always seemed to be the case. The simpler the cars got the better the racing got. It also has always seemed to me that faster cars do not always equal better racing.

The one thing that always appealed to me about QSAC racing was that money was not going to buy you a win, even at the national races. I always knew my one car was going to be just as competitive as the guy that designed and built the car. I would hate to see prices get to the point of the guys with the most money he is willing to invest wins. I think that has been the down fall of other forms RC racing.

Several have talked about 1/5 scale racing on here but I can’t seem to find much about it online. Is it off road racing? And how is it supposed to be better than QSAC racing? I am just curious also…

no 1/5 around here. only place i know is california , mexico and europe. which i why it should n't be used as a reason to do what they do. yes, for the same amount of money , the car is more advanced. but who are you going to race with? and being more advanced in techo goodies isnt' going to make the racing better. just more $$ in maintence and repairs. If I actually raced it instead of dusted it off once in while.