Well guys, here are the complete BRL rules for the 2009-2010 season. As I indicated in an earlier post, I believe that the effort by the TOUR to provide a unified set of rules for the major carpet oval events deserves our support. So you will find that the BRL rules follow the TOUR rules for the 13.5, 10.5 and 7.5 single cell classes. For our 21.5 / 2 cell class we will follow the same rules as we did last season.

I have defined only our 4 points classes. Where there is local interest, we will run the 17.5 Sportsman Truck class following the TOUR rules specifically for that class and our general car and competition rules.

There are areas the TOUR rules don’t address and areas where they could be considered open to interpretation. In those areas (general car specifications, for one); the BRL rules fill in the gaps. I don’t believe there are any conflicts, but if there appears to be a conflict between the TOUR rules and the BRL rules; the BRL rules will apply. One area where some might perceive a conflict is in the area of receiver packs. In order to deal with suspicions regarding additional voltage from these packs providing a performance boost in single cell classes, the BRL will have limits on receiver pack capacity and wiring gauge used to connect the receiver pack.

There may be some question about the availability of a few of the single cell batteries and motors on the approved list. I’ve spoken directly with the manufacturers in question and I’ve been assured that the products in question will be available in early October. So I’ve accepted them on the approved list.

There has also been some fine tuning on the points system. Some have questioned the importance placed on the Finals. But like NASCAR, we'd prefer not to have our champion decided too early. However, this year your points will be from your best 4 events which creates the mathematical possibility that someone could lock up a class win before the Finals. And with points from 4 of 6 events counting, the influence of the Finals (even with 1.5x point value) is reduced.

It’s just a short time to our first event at Tri-State Hobbies. I hope you’re looking forward to the start of this BRL season as much as I am. Early next week, I’ll announce the sponsors for our 4 classes and some events.

See ya at the races……………….

Thanks for all the hard work Chuck !!!!!:thumbsup:

Thanks BIG and little Chuck. Dedication all i can say. You guys rock.:thumbsup::dude:


Shane #24 :wave:

Thanks BIG and little Chuck. Dedication all i can say. You guys rock.:thumbsup::dude:


Shane #24 :wave:

Way to suck up Shane. :thumbsup: You let them beat you at the track too just so you won't get put in a heat race with Bob.

Wait a minute, we are going to Milwaukee, Hays SR.

Thanks BIG and little Chuck. You guys rock. :thumbsup::dude:

Thanks to you Chuck we will be able to continue to have a fun and exciting racing series to compete in, with the best racers and great friendships! I am anxiously awaiting for the drop of the green flag on this season. It will be a lot of fun :thumbsup:

The file for the rules package has been updated with a couple of changes in response to some questions.

I've tried to make it more clear that the 7.5 and 10.5 classes are covered by the general rule on spoilers and wings (allowing a 1.5" spoiler for instance) while the 21.5 and 13.5 classes have specific rules on wings and spoilers.

Also, I've added an availability section covering motors, batteries and ESC's. Basically it states that these items must be available to the general public 15 days prior to an event. The intent is to level the playing field (in terms of equipment) between team drivers and all the rest. If the average racers can't buy it, the team guys can't run it. There will be an exception when we run an Open Mod class, but otherwise the idea is all racers will run commercially available motors, batteries and ESC's. I realize there will still be ways to sneak stuff in, but I hope team drivers and manufacturers will respect the intent.

“Available to the general public” is defined as able to be purchased through recognized distribution channels (including the manufacturer’s website) in North America. Our shop is a dealer for all the major distributors and I'll be checking manufacturers' websites later this week. If I can't buy it, it isn't available to the general public. This is likely to be an issue only for this first event. If you're a team driver and there is likely to be any doubt as to the public availability of what you're running, then it's in your best interest to get any questions resolved prior to the event. Either come to Tri-State with evidence it was available or contact me and get it resolved in advance (the preferred method).

We're trying hard to accomodate more manufacturers than in the past but I'm also committed to maintaining as level a playing field in the BRL as possible. That is one of the key's to our success all these years.

Good job Chuck! See you in Cincy.

Looks great guys! If my math is right, this Friday is the cutoff for availability for the first race...See everyone in Cinci!

Do you have to sign up in advance for the Cinncy race or just show up Saturday? If so, where or who do I contact to get signed up? Thanks in advance.

No advance registration is needed. Sign up at the track. There will be a roll call thread started tomorrow.

sounds good thanks for the info.

While I can't run the BRL event at Cincy, I'll be helping Monti lay in the grove.

Sucks I have to work till 4 pm on Saturday!

Chuck you have a PM.

AJ

While I can't run the BRL event at Cincy, I'll be helping Monti lay in the grove.

Sucks I have to work till 4 pm on Saturday!

well, thats a bunch of crap!!!!:thumbsup::wave:

While I can't run the BRL event at Cincy, I'll be helping Monti lay in the grove.

Sucks I have to work till 4 pm on Saturday!


You could probably get two rounds in yet on Saturday!! :thumbsup:

I just wanted to say "Great Job" to Chuck and the BRL team for putting together a fantastic format for the BRL this year. Chuck was instrumental in helpiung Allan and I put together the TOUR rules and I thank him for all of his help and dedication. We at the TOUR are 100% in support of what you guys have put together and I hope to make it out to a few of your events this year. Keep up the great work!!

Steve

I just wanted to say "Great Job" to Chuck and the BRL team for putting together a fantastic format for the BRL this year. Chuck was instrumental in helpiung Allan and I put together the TOUR rules and I thank him for all of his help and dedication. We at the TOUR are 100% in support of what you guys have put together and I hope to make it out to a few of your events this year. Keep up the great work!!

Stevesteve, i just wanted to take a moment to thank you and allen also for your time and effort to help bring a unified set of rules to our series as well i think we have the best series out there!! hopefully it will continue to improve!!!!!! hats off to all four of you!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Rick kanschat

Steve,

Thanks for the good word and especially for all the work done by you and Allan. Guys like Boylan and I put in our 2 cents worth and drove you mad but it was your and Allan's determination that produced the final product, a basic set of national guidelines for carpet oval racing.

I think we're going to have a great BRL season and I'm hoping that other events and tracks have a great year as well.

Thanks again,
Chuck

As most of you guys know, the BRL has an availability rule covering batteries, motors, and ESC's. Basically, these items have to be available through recognized distribution channels 15 days prior to a BRL event no matter whether they are shown on any approval list or not. With the Green Bay race approaching on November 21, and 22; it seems like a good idea to make some clarification on what will be allowed at that race and what will not.

Although listed as approved batteries per the TOUR and BRL based on earlier information, the Thunderpower 50c battery (PN50001SPR50) and the Epic 5200 40C battery (PNTEP2003) have not been generally available in time and will not be permitted at the Hyperdrive 300 at Victory R/C.

Also the Advanced Electronics ESC distributed by CRC and the new Novak Kinetic ESC have not been available in time and will also not be permitted at this race.

As most of you guys know, the BRL has an availability rule covering batteries, motors, and ESC's. Basically, these items have to be available through recognized distribution channels 15 days prior to a BRL event no matter whether they are shown on any approval list or not. With the Green Bay race approaching on November 21, and 22; it seems like a good idea to make some clarification on what will be allowed at that race and what will not.

Although listed as approved batteries per the TOUR and BRL based on earlier information, the Thunderpower 50c battery (PN50001SPR50) and the Epic 5200 40C battery (PNTEP2003) have not been generally available in time and will not be permitted at the Hyperdrive 300 at Victory R/C.

Also the Advanced Electronics ESC distributed by CRC and the new Novak Kinetic ESC have not been available in time and will also not be permitted at this race.

Kudos.

nothing like having to spend $350 on a ESC to help this hobby...

Thats a good first step for the GB race but I think we need to put a freeze on existing esc to help keep the cost down. Allow them for next year, it would be nice to put a package together and beable to run it one full season before having to update! You know some/most guys will have to have these forceing others who can't afford them to feel at a disadvantage as they will be! I would have to think twice about attending an event I knew ahead of time I had no chance of being competitive because of new exspensive equipment.

Thats a good first step for the GB race but I think we need to put a freeze on existing esc to help keep the cost down. Allow them for next year, it would be nice to put a package together and beable to run it one full season before having to update! You know some/most guys will have to have these forceing others who can't afford them to feel at a disadvantage as they will be! I would have to think twice about attending an event I knew ahead of time I had no chance of being competitive because of new exspensive equipment.

I'm with Mike on this one!

$350-$400 for a freaking speed control is just ridiculous! I'll admit, we're oval racers, and if there is a perceived advantage, you know we're gonna want it. I think it would be great Chuck & Chuck if you guys would put the ca-bosh to this deal right now, and if anything, at the very least, put it to a vote for the guys that run the BRL if they want to run them or not.

It's stuff like this that will ruin a good thing. Lets not let it get to that point!

Thats a good first step for the GB race but I think we need to put a freeze on existing esc to help keep the cost down. Allow them for next year, it would be nice to put a package together and beable to run it one full season before having to update! You know some/most guys will have to have these forceing others who can't afford them to feel at a disadvantage as they will be! I would have to think twice about attending an event I knew ahead of time I had no chance of being competitive because of new exspensive equipment.

Only problem with that is there are speedos like the Tekin that allow you to change the software without having to buy a "new" speedo. So if Tekin hits the software right to run like the AE speedo, now we all have to buy the Tekin and Hotwire since it's already approved, and will be faster. Guess you could limit it to non-programable speedos, but that will certainly ruffle some feathers as well.

I'm in the camp that will choose to stay home and save $350 in travel, food, hotel and entry rather than spend the additional $350 to keep up. Unfortunately for oval racing, I'm guessing I'm not the only one in the camp either.....

As most of you guys know, the BRL has an availability rule covering batteries, motors, and ESC's. Basically, these items have to be available through recognized distribution channels 15 days prior to a BRL event no matter whether they are shown on any approval list or not. With the Green Bay race approaching on November 21, and 22; it seems like a good idea to make some clarification on what will be allowed at that race and what will not.

Although listed as approved batteries per the TOUR and BRL based on earlier information, the Thunderpower 50c battery (PN50001SPR50) and the Epic 5200 40C battery (PNTEP2003) have not been generally available in time and will not be permitted at the Hyperdrive 300 at Victory R/C.

Also the Advanced Electronics ESC distributed by CRC and the new Novak Kinetic ESC have not been available in time and will also not be permitted at this race.

Have you guys given any thought to not allowing the unavailable batteries for the rest of the season? I know they were on the approved list, but was under the impression that was because they told everyone they would be available in October, just not October 1st. We're now looking at December release dates (maybe) which is basically mid-season.....kinda defeats the purpose of locking in an approved list if new products are allowed mid-season. Just a thought!

As most of you guys know, the BRL has an availability rule covering batteries, motors, and ESC's. Basically, these items have to be available through recognized distribution channels 15 days prior to a BRL event no matter whether they are shown on any approval list or not. With the Green Bay race approaching on November 21, and 22; it seems like a good idea to make some clarification on what will be allowed at that race and what will not.

Although listed as approved batteries per the TOUR and BRL based on earlier information, the Thunderpower 50c battery (PN50001SPR50) and the Epic 5200 40C battery (PNTEP2003) have not been generally available in time and will not be permitted at the Hyperdrive 300 at Victory R/C.

Also the Advanced Electronics ESC distributed by CRC and the new Novak Kinetic ESC have not been available in time and will also not be permitted at this race.

THANKS FOR KEEPING THE UNDER HANDED CRAP TO A MINIMUM
:thumbsup:CHAD

Have you guys given any thought to not allowing the unavailable batteries for the rest of the season? I know they were on the approved list, but was under the impression that was because they told everyone they would be available in October, just not October 1st. We're now looking at December release dates (maybe) which is basically mid-season.....kinda defeats the purpose of locking in an approved list if new products are allowed mid-season. Just a thought!
100% agree. That was a mystery to me at the time...."approved" based on what?...the "promise" that it would be readily available in time?!
My faith is in Chuck, as well as the ideals that Sonny put forth originally. At some point we have to stop thinking like lawyers and arguing just to expose a loophole, and start using common sense and reason. Let's face it, in the BRL the racers are very familiar with each other and trust that the guy on the stand beside them races for, and within the same principles, that they do.
It may not be illegal to run the new speedo...but you may find yourself beating a field of 3 other guys very soon. As far as batteries...they knew the date...all had a chance to get them there in time and we still have a choice between those part numbers that made the date.
dk

nothing like having to spend $350 on a ESC to help this hobby...


I’m sorry for bring up the past , in no way does it help the future of oval racing and I wish the brl and oval the best in the future

kinda defeats the purpose of locking in an approved list if new products are allowed mid-season. Just a thought!

Totally agree. When we used to race Go-Karts if a new part came along after the homologation date it was not allowed until the next season. I would sure hate to see all the new Li-Po batteries I just bought be Obsolete in a month or so.

My 2 cents
Jack

I think that is what everyone is asking for. Don't obsolete the car,speed-o-,batteries etc. after just a few races! Lets freeze everything and have a hard approval date for next year and stick to it. Not saying don't allow new technoogy just do it in a way that won't cost me $1,500.00 in the middle of the year. I have faith that Chuck will address this issue in the best interest of BRL racers!

If you want to tech. esc software just plug them in and read what version was just run when they come off the track. Won't stop "special" profiles but you weren't going to stop that any way.

:thumbsup:

i don't see a problem , it was ok when the tekin/spx came out and was ok to run in "spec" 21.5. now that all classes are open mod , why stop now?
:wave:

Those ESCs where more like $200 rather than $350... I really don't have a problem with the AE ESC... I have a problem with its price and lack of availability.

I agree with Mikes idea of putting a freeze on it. Its not a perfect solution, but is better than the alternative of having people stay home because they know they're beat or spending 350 on a new esc. Oval simply cannot take many more blows that force people to spend a poop load of money to keep up. If there are questions on the Tekin do as Mike stated.

Hays

I'd be all for a hard freeze on everything electronic.

I'd be even more for saying screw what the rest of the country does and we just spec one brand again. Hindsight being 20\20 if we as an entire group had stuck to our guns on that they'd all be begging to come race with us now.

Here here Pat! Best brushless race ever was the first one at Allen's one class 100+ in it!

I agree with Hays Jr and Pat, we should freeze all electronics. Enough is enough.

Only problem with that is there are speedos like the Tekin that allow you to change the software without having to buy a "new" speedo. So if Tekin hits the software right to run like the AE speedo, now we all have to buy the Tekin and Hotwire since it's already approved, and will be faster...
That's our issue with freezing speedos as of today...
If you want to tech. esc software just plug them in and read what version was just run when they come off the track. Won't stop "special" profiles but you weren't going to stop that any way.
That's a possible solution, and probably a tech nightmare. You definitely won't see me running three classes then :)

Anything I say isn't official, but we're talking about it a lot this week. Big C is on the road so he may not chime in (and because his word is official he probably won't for a little while). We've always known that one of the great things about the BRL is the desire to keep costs down and have "friendly competition" and not a battle of wallets. That isn't being forgotten, we are listening.

I'd be all for a hard freeze on everything electronic.

I'd be even more for saying screw what the rest of the country does and we just spec one brand again. Hindsight being 2020 if we as an entire group had stuck to our guns on that they'd all be begging to come race with us now.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

best post i've read to date....................

I’m sorry for bring up the past , in no way does it help the future of oval racing and I wish the brl and oval the best in the future
JMO
Brian Cook

Don't know what or where you have been running but we raced all last year with one motor and one battery per car. This year ( so far ) same thing one motor and one battery per car and trying to keep it that way!

I’m sorry for bring up the past , in no way does it help the future of oval racing and I wish the brl and oval the best in the future

Here here Pat! Best brushless race ever was the first one at Allen's one class 100+ in it!

I liked that race too.

What a good idea.:)

I don't have a final BRL position on the Advanced ESC (or any other). But I'm clearly sensitive to the desire to keep costs under control.

I do want to point out a couple of things. First, while the first Novak Nationals may have been a great race (1 class, all the same motor); that was a different time. There weren't many alternative sensored brushless motors other than Novak at the time and brushless motors weren't really considered race motors. Sonny and Novak took a step into the unknown and put on a great race.

But even in its first year following that event, the BRL series allowed more than one ESC and had more than one class. Let's face it, we've got different skill levels and one class doesn't fit all. The series has evolved over time as the technology and the industry has evolved. Right now we're discussing ESC's but we could just as easily be discussing mono-ball rear suspensions. If the new cars sporting that design prove to be consistently a tenth or two faster than today's T plate cars are we gonna hear cries to ban new chassis introduced after the start of the season? A car kit is basically as expensive as the AE ESC. So if price is the criteria, we should be banning any new chassis from being introduced as well.

This is racing and racers and race product manufacturers are always looking to make improvements. Where do we start (or stop) with the concept of a freeze on technology? The challenge facing a race or series director is finding the right balance between allowing racers to innovate / improve and trying to keep a level playing field. While some of you may feel the answer is simple, it doesn't look that simple from where I sit. Among other challenges, a freeze forces anyone who fries his ESC to buy an "outdated" one if he wants to continue with the BRL season. And then he gets to buy an up to date one later on or if he wants to be competitive outside the BRL. No bargain there for that unlucky racer.

Here is a little more on my perspective on the ESC issue. Unlike brushed motors where full voltage is basically full voltage, we're seeing that the performance of a brushless motor can be influenced by the software in the ESC. That is actually a concern raised years ago when the switch to brushless racing was underway. And, just like the ECU's on full scale racers, controlling the box is no longer the key. If you really want a level playing field you've got to control the software. And not simply a revision level of downloadable software. It'd be real simple to change the content of a software download without changing the revision number. Or to have a revision that fixes a needed non-performance bug that also just happens to improve performance. Or someone could change the firmware and software in a non-programmable ESC and leave the PN on the "box" the same as a running change to the product. The only way to really insure a level playing field is to lock in one ESC manufacturer, have the ESC's supplied to the series and handed out to the racers to be returned and quarantined after every event. I know I'm not prepared for that step and I doubt you guys really are either.

In fact, some factory team drivers were suspected of having different programming in their ESC's long before software updates by download were possible and when ESC choice was limited. I believe this was a factor when the BRL decided to open up to any brand of ESC for the 2008-2009 season. Basically, if you can't control the "smoke" in the magic box, at least allow everyone an opportunity to buy the best box they can. And get away from the perception that only the team drivers have the best software.

I've spent a considerable amount of time talking with ESC manufacturers over the last 4 to 6 weeks. I've "decided" this issue about a half dozen times but the decision hasn't always been the same. I'll spend considerable time again this week on the phone with them. I'll announce a decision for the BRL before Monday, Nov 16th.

I don't have a final BRL position on the Advanced ESC (or any other). But I'm clearly sensitive to the desire to keep costs under control.

I do want to point out a couple of things. First, while the first Novak Nationals may have been a great race (1 class, all the same motor); that was a different time. There weren't many alternative sensored brushless motors other than Novak at the time and brushless motors weren't really considered race motors. Sonny and Novak took a step into the unknown and put on a great race.

But even in its first year following that event, the BRL series allowed more than one ESC and had more than one class. Let's face it, we've got different skill levels and one class doesn't fit all. The series has evolved over time as the technology and the industry has evolved. Right now we're discussing ESC's but we could just as easily be discussing mono-ball rear suspensions. If the new cars sporting that design prove to be consistently a tenth or two faster than today's T plate cars are we gonna hear cries to ban new chassis introduced after the start of the season? A car kit is basically as expensive as the AE ESC. So if price is the criteria, we should be banning any new chassis from being introduced as well.

This is racing and racers and race product manufacturers are always looking to make improvements. Where do we start (or stop) with the concept of a freeze on technology? The challenge facing a race or series director is finding the right balance between allowing racers to innovate / improve and trying to keep a level playing field. While some of you may feel the answer is simple, it doesn't look that simple from where I sit. Among other challenges, a freeze forces anyone who fries his ESC to buy an "outdated" one if he wants to continue with the BRL season. And then he gets to buy an up to date one later on or if he wants to be competitive outside the BRL. No bargain there for that unlucky racer.

Here is a little more on my perspective on the ESC issue. Unlike brushed motors where full voltage is basically full voltage, we're seeing that the performance of a brushless motor can be influenced by the software in the ESC. That is actually a concern raised years ago when the switch to brushless racing was underway. And, just like the ECU's on full scale racers, controlling the box is no longer the key. If you really want a level playing field you've got to control the software. And not simply a revision level of downloadable software. It'd be real simple to change the content of a software download without changing the revision number. Or to have a revision that fixes a needed non-performance bug that also just happens to improve performance. Or someone could change the firmware and software in a non-programmable ESC and leave the PN on the "box" the same as a running change to the product. The only way to really insure a level playing field is to lock in one ESC manufacturer, have the ESC's supplied to the series and handed out to the racers to be returned and quarantined after every event. I know I'm not prepared for that step and I doubt you guys really are either.

In fact, some factory team drivers were suspected of having different programming in their ESC's long before software updates by download were possible and when ESC choice was limited. I believe this was a factor when the BRL decided to open up to any brand of ESC for the 2008-2009 season. Basically, if you can't control the "smoke" in the magic box, at least allow everyone an opportunity to buy the best box they can. And get away from the perception that only the team drivers have the best software.

I've spent a considerable amount of time talking with ESC manufacturers over the last 4 to 6 weeks. I've "decided" this issue about a half dozen times but the decision hasn't always been the same. I'll spend considerable time again this week on the phone with them. I'll announce a decision for the BRL before Monday, Nov 16th.

you the man BIGCHUCK!

I like a good explanation where a little common sense is being used and it shows whatever decision you make it will be with much thought and less emotion than just a knee jerk.

The racers that aren't biased for one reason or another and aren't meatheads will support you what ever your decision!

thank you for the time to spell this out so well!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :

u the man chuck:)

now for any doubters still out there!!! the brl is in good hands!!! thank you big chuck!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I think if you took a poll of the BRL racers from the last 3 years, you would find that 95 percent of the guys were very happy to have 1 motor brand and 2 speedo companies to choose from. I think if the series rules allowed only 1 motor and 1 speedo company you would still have a good group of racers going to BRL races. Most of the local tracks that BRL racers race at run BRL rules. Somebody could look at the other "BIG" and see what percentage of the BRL racers go there.

This going to be an interesting year in oval racing. We had 3 very good years in the BRL and I know that it's going to be tough decisions for the Chucks this year. I do think the series is in good hands and they will make decisions that are best for all the racers.

By the way, that first big brushless race started out with about 20 guys getting together for a race at Allen's and snowballed into almost 100 racers at 1 event in 1 class. It was "Allen's Midwest Brushless Oval Challenge". The next year Sonny started the BRL and we know the rest. It was a very cool race for that time.

Lets all get are brushed stuff back out and go racing!!!!

-Matt Gansen

Not to beat the subject more, but what is the ruling on the CC speed control for Green Bay? Currently commercially available? I know the AE and Kinetic are not, but the CC MMPro?

While many may like the one motor/speed control as someone who races outside the BRL stronghold, I would never buy a speed control I could not update. This is not new technology as CC has had it for several years.

This year I plan on making 4 of the BRL races, but if the rules had been one motor/speed control and it wasnt one I already had I would have stayed home. So keep up the good work.

John

I think you find more info on the Round 2 Green Bay thread.

I'm sure you weren't the only one that stayed away from the BRL because of the rules the last couple years and that's too bad. We as BRL racers have had a lot of FUN racing together the last 3 years with the rules. All races last year had great attendance. We even had a crazy Canuck come down to race and liked it so much we can't keep him away. Maybe higher border fences?:)