Hey Everyone,

The TOUR has been put in a unique position that none of us expected to be in, regarding 1-cell batteries. Therefore we have taken a very bold stand in order to protect the racers to the largest degree possible, while still provide adequate manufacturer involvement and competition. Let me take you through the process:


· The TOUR was willing to accept the guidance of ROAR by adopting the ROAR approved battery list. ROAR had committed to changing its approval process from an “open” approval to a “bi-annual” approval such that Oct 1st and May 1st would represent the 2 dates that revised battery list would be available to the public. This list would not change for 6 months at a time, providing some stability in our industry, along with a degree of fairness to manufacturers allowing them to continue development of technology and put themselves into a better competitive position every 6 months. It was a good compromise, and allowed us (the TOUR) to maintain consistency with ROAR and thus, consistency with the rest of the R/C world.
· On Thursday August 27th, we were notified that ROAR was abandoning this process, 5 days before the submission deadline of September 1st, and returning to an “open” approval process. This will allow manufacturers to submit products for approval at any time throughout the year, until May, when ROAR says they will then begin the “bi-annual” approval process.

The TOUR respects ROAR’s right to make this change due to manufacturing and shipping delays in the over sea’s market, but we as an organization can not tolerate the effect this will have on Oval Racing. The oval racers have asked for stability throughout a given racing season, with regard to batteries. The TOUR has pledged to provide leadership and direction. Though we strive to maintain consistency with ROAR and the rest of the R/C world, this is one area where the TOUR will respectfully differ and set its own standards. Here is what we intend to do:

· The TOUR will compile a list of “TOUR Approved” batteries over the next 2 weeks and post this list as an update to the TOUR rules. This will be the only batteries legal for use, under TOUR rules, until May of 2010.
· We will compile this list by contacting manufacturers directly, reviewing their specifications and listing their products by part number. This will result in a list of current products and/or products within a few weeks of release and effectively lock the battery list for over 6 months.
· This provides complete inclusion of all manufacturers willing to participate and prevents the “November Surprise” or “January Surprise”. Racers can be assured that this battery list will be frozen until May of 2010.
· All batteries on this list will meet ROAR’s design specifications, which the TOUR is in full agreement with.

I would ask that you, as racers, do 2 things. First, get in touch with your sponsors. If they have a battery that they intend to release for this season, please make sure they contact us. We have a very good idea who the major players are and what they have available, but, to be certain, make sure they contact us. Secondly, we realize some folks have questions, concerns, and ideas that they do not want subject to a public discussion forum. Please feel free to contact Allan or I by email. pemberton@roadrunner.com (pemberton@roadrunner.com) or allana1989@earthlink.net (allana1989@earthlink.net) .

This has been the most difficult obstacle to date. We, unfortunately, have no control over a large sanctioning body changing the rules of its approval process. We do, however, understand the needs of the oval racing community and intend to serve that cause first and foremost. I’ll try to check in most of the weekend to provide clarification. Let’s keep the discussion peaceful and intelligent. Thanks for all of the support.


Steve

Very good!!:thumbsup: I'll say it again ROAR does nothing for oval racing !!!!

Siggy,

I gotta hand it to ya......your an equal opportunity butt kicker!! LOL You give me just as many props as you do digs. Thats fair. No one can argue with that. Thanks for the vote of confidence!! Take care.

Steve

That was a good comment for you guys im glad ROAR is out of here and happy to see the new dates for the Battery deal good job to the TOUR!!

steve, it is great the TOUR is looking out for us. this is exactly what we need in oval.:thumbsup:

Sounds good guys, I'm going to adopt your position on batteries for the coming season for the SK class rules that I'm drafting

-Eric Dimmick
Darkside Motorsports
KSKT Racing Products

Thanks Erik, we just felt like that was one of our strongest points and had recieved so much support because of it. I see ROAR's point, that was how they did the 2 cell, last year. But we did not feel that was the best thing for Oval unity. Thanks Again.

Allan A

Great Job guys.

:thumbsup:

gotta love roar! bassackwards at all times!

Your stance on this problem shows good leadership for the Oval community.

Now if you can get someone to hold classes on how to use the new R5 front-end I am working on.:thumbsup:

Very good!!:thumbsup: I'll say it again ROAR does nothing for oval racing !!!!

never mind oval racing how about all electric racing. wtf roar

Excellent decision guys! This is exactly what I was suggesting all along and I am glad that you guys made the decision to move on it.

--Cory

now thats taking the bull by the horns... or taking a lamb by it's.... well, nevermind.
what i'm trying to say is great job and way to stick it to em!!!

Works for me!!!!

Joel White

Guys,

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the support on this. Cory........LMAO!!! I've been to the hills of PA so I get the joke!! LOL Priceless!!

Here is my recomendation based on the very limited info I've received so far on batteries. Wait till I have the list done before buying a bunch of anything. That way, there will be no surprises. There will be a few new things on the list, most likely, but the science behind the TP 40C and the SMC 50C represents the max we can get out of the current technology. They both perform very close, and the "C" rating is as much marketing as anything. Also, don't be too quick to discard anything you've already bought. It may be very tough to tell the difference between any of these packs on the track. This is a very stable technology and very equal.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Steve

steve is roar just approving the 1 cell lipo packs all year long...or is it all lipo batteries 1 cell and 2 cell?

Hi Katfish,

I don't know. Mike B. got the official notice from ROAR but he was unclear on that issue as well. The justification that ROAR gave me was due to shipping delays from oversea's, specifically with regard to 1-cell packs. But I don't know if they made a blanket rule for all battery approvals. My guess is that they will apply this "open season" to all batteries.

That's why we had to make a move to get things under control. Thanks for the support (and the humor) throughout the process [the "I bumped my toe...I blame the TOUR" post was hilarious]


Steve

i had to make up for some of my whining and crying ya know lol. i'll be quiet i swear.

i had to make up for some of my whining and crying ya know lol. i'll be quiet i swear.

cory, it this reason alone that we need to support the TOUR rules package.
take it or leave it.:hat:
i love COTs'

Hi Katfish,

I don't know. Mike B. got the official notice from ROAR but he was unclear on that issue as well. The justification that ROAR gave me was due to shipping delays from oversea's, specifically with regard to 1-cell packs. But I don't know if they made a blanket rule for all battery approvals. My guess is that they will apply this "open season" to all batteries.

That's why we had to make a move to get things under control. Thanks for the support (and the humor) throughout the process [the "I bumped my toe...I blame the TOUR" post was hilarious]


Steve

Steve, I will say this, thank you to you and everyone involved trying to get this TOUR deal worked out ,.......... now........ as far as this "open battery approval process" .....and ROAR's reasoning behind it ........ I say BS !!!! ....... this is another fine example of the manufacturer's running the sanctioning body behind the scenes and pulling strings. ROAR didnt make it a year with their own policy ........ lol.... comical to say the least IMHO ....... and ROAR wonders why tracks use their rules as a "guideline" instead of straight from the rulebook, so they can correct dumbass decisions like this.

Whether its just for 1s or 2s, why cant ROAR just stick to their guns........or hell even if there are 1 or 5 companies with 1s batteries held up in customs, simply delay the "deadline" till later in the year when they all come in, approve them and keep the 2 times a year approval process in place, that I could understand especially because 1s is kinda new to more them TP and SMC, with ROAR opening up the approval process THEY are going back on the racer by trying to keep things cost controlled supposedly and we'll be back to battery of the month/week which I dont think anyone missed from the ni-cad/nimh days ......do we ?

Rich

Steve, What Cory Said. That Only Happens Far North Hills Of Pa. Like In A Town Named Treamont... Lol

LOL I've never heard of Treamont, but I've driven through Equinox!! Now that right there is "country"!! In Equinox, on Rt191, a bird come flying over my truck that looked like a taridactile!! Had to have a 10 foot wing span. Me and Joel saw it. The minute we spotted it, we knew no one would ever believe the story, but I swear to you it was an absolute giant!!

Aside from all that, I really do appreciate your support. I love racing in Northeastern PA. I had a great talk with Frank Mertz yesterday and Bill Marshall is a gerat friend of mine. All I've asked is for the promoters to try to resist the temptation to tweak the rules. Believe me, I understand the temptation. But if everyone does their own little tweak, it won't be long till we're back to chaos. Whether its a body rule, battery rule, motor rule, etc......differing rules limit the ability of people to travel between tracks, even at a local level. If there is a major problem, we'll fix it so that everyone will benefit from the change.

Thanks for hanging in there with us!! See you all soon.

Steve

Steve, What Cory Said. That Only Happens Far North Hills Of Pa. Like In A Town Named Treamont... Lol

don't gimme that crap buck... i saw the big yellow boots hidden in your closet :wave::tongue::freak::rolleyes::wave::tongue:

sicko

rt. 191 in equinox you say???? thats where buck lives... HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

don't gimme that crap buck... i saw the big yellow boots hidden in your closet :wave::tongue::freak::rolleyes::wave::tongue:

sicko

rt. 191 in equinox you say???? thats where buck lives... HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
yeah, but all the sheep live in treamont...
you weren't suposed to see them. they were your christmas present. you said you needed a new pair...lol

Equinox is about 30 mins from Marshalls... so you be the judge lol

bunch a sheperds up that way huh?

LOL

Equinox is about 30 mins from Marshalls... so you be the judge lol

After going to the Wagon Wheel, I couldn't imagine what you find in Equinox.

LMAO at all the Equinox jokes, but the real name of the town is Equinunk. And yes Steve I have seen some prehistoric like birds in that area as well.

even the birds have yellow boots on.... yikes!

This is certainly good news and applaud your efforts.

I would like to hear your thoughts on a comment I made in another thread. Why do you feel as though you need to follow the bi-annual approval process?

Would it not be practical to only use the 1st approval date of the year? Is it a question of not wanting to limit the technology?

I would think that it might make it easier for the tracks and promoters to police the cars based off of one list from one date. Or would it be more work to keep up with having to add the October list to the next one?

Thanks

rj

Hey RJ,

We feel that locking the battery for a season (carpet or paved) gives all involved a good position. It gives the racer and hobby shop a clear picture of what they need for each season. You know as a racer your battery will not be trumped by something new next month. As a hobby shop owner I know what and how much I can stock my shelves with and not be stuck with outdated inventory. Also a mfg is in the same position where they are some what protected from the battery of the month battle. This also allows them to be working on development if needed of new product.

Remember this as a nationwide rule is a new idea. That may or may not have to be tweeked. I appreciate your support and input.

Allan

Thanks for making this decision :thumbsup: and locking in some batteries.

good job making that decision!!

Great job guys. Thanks for your time and support of oval racing.

I have a question on the BATTERY deal...

Pardon my IGNORANCE!

Why IS IT we as racers 'THINK' we have to continually approve and allow the NEWEST / LATEST battery?

We have LIPO Cells that can be mfg'd w/o change, they perform GREAT, the have more than TWICE as much run time as needed...

Why can't the OVAL MARKET (or even ALL the markets now) LOCK IN a set of specs, and leave it alone!!! Don't change it in 6 months, or even a year... JUST LEAVE IT ALONE now...

(At least until the NEXT "Type" of battery that is better than LIPO comes out)

We are NO LONGER Dictated (according to the battery guys) by the ROUND CELL COMPANIES who discontinued cells.

We ORDER based on specs -

it never ends!

Well A LOT of us want to use the latest and greatest. If you are not buying a new battery pack every 4 to 6 months you are leaving speed in the show case. I know you will say that you have packs that are 2 years old that run great... But you also get handled when Humpty shows up...LOL. Even these new lipos drop off some. I think buying a new pack every few months is fine, and way cheaper than what we had before. It also gives the hobby shops, and Mfg's the ability to make "some" money. While I may buy a pack every 3 to 5 months some may just stick with there 2 year old stuff, and just run in mid pack. This is racing, and IMO we need to budget for tires, traction compound, bodies, motors, and lipo packs.

Great move Steve and Allan! Locking in the batteries and giving tracks and racers a list of what is legal will be great for the Fall and Winter months ahead (for Tour tracks and races). The Tour is really looking great and is an awesome start to unifying oval once again. I love it! Thanks!

Joe, I don't think there is anything wrong with with you statement, and your right, we don't need to. With that being said, I also don't see a problem with people wanting to. I do this for 2 reason, to compete, and to go fast. I understand 90% of going fast is chassis, but I like to think I am a decent chassis guy. If a new product might get me half a tenth, I'm all for it. I think there needs to be a place in the hobby for both. New technology adds to cost, which now adays is a big issue. More of an issue for starters. There needs to be a place where companies can test new equipment (7.5 and mod), classes for sportsman (10.5 and 13.5) where some investment is allowed, but they are not near the investment as the top classes, and a class for beginners (17.5) where things could be locked in for a year or 2 to allow stability into bringing people into the hobby. Just my .02, to each their own I guess.

the only problem that i see with only allowing 1 batt and keeping it for a year or more is that it locks out alot of other companys with products. so why would that locked out company try to encourage TOUR if they werent allowd in it. i think the 6 month lock in on battery aproval is a happy medium between only allowing 1 type, and what we use to have of allowing everything under the sun. so lets see how things go this fall

Why limit it to one company????

Why not just limit the C rating and leave it alone? That way, any company that makes that C rating of battery is welcome.

If you limit the battery to a specific brand, it is a bad move IMO.

--Cory

Why limit it to one company????

Why not just limit the C rating and leave it alone? That way, any company that makes that C rating of battery is welcome.

If you limit the battery to a specific brand, it is a bad move IMO.

--Cory

Just as long as every company submits their batteries to the same machine and the same parameters that calculate the c rating in the same exact conditions. Not one company has the same exact method for rating their ''C's'', you see...

Hey guys,

Good discussion. Joe Ivo is right on the money with the reasons for 6 months. We have to balance "industry control" with "manufacturer involvement". We may not change anything in 6 months, but let's leave ourselves the option to look at the industry at that time.

Anyone who's been around this for a while can see whats going on here....... Around Sept. 15th (give or take), I'll have a list of about (10) 1-cell packs. What happens next............... withing 2 weeks, we will come to the "conclusion" that 1-2 packs are the best. And that's what everyone will run. We've had 3-5 different NiMh cells in play at a time for the past 6 years....plus about 10-15 "matchers" pushing, zapping, grading etc. What happened then.......within 2 weeks, we came to the "conclusion" that 1-2 packs are the best. And that's what everyone ran.

The "C" rating stuff, is unfortunately, no more accurate than pants sizes (small, meduim, or large).....no standard for measurement at at. [wait....this is an oval forum......let me rephrase that (XXL, XXXL, XXXXL)]

One manufacturer's 40C is another manufacturer's 60C. Mainly marketing, but effective. It's got us all talking. Does anyone remember the 3800's taking 4400mAh of charge on the GFX? Same idea.

I think we all have to take a step back and realize how much better it is with lipo........but don't set our expectations too high. We are not quite to the perfect "buy one battery for the year" scenario yet, but we are getting there. At least thats what we are trying to do.

Thanks again for all the support guys.

Steve

man humpty are you gonna take that lying down bro? ahahhahahah

joe black and white movies were great! but dude you gotta check out porn in 3d ultra high def....i got a black eye the other night from watching 3d porn!

you see joe if we stop progress we die....i'm sure there are alot of aids survivors and cancer patients who thank god you don't work in the medical field..

"racers" like to be on the cutting edge of technology...last year we went 60 laps..this year 61 it's cool stuff...the core group of guys you have are being put at a dis advantage of sorts...

1) you allow heating....we don't a set back for them
2) you have been using what is now very old technology lipo cells...set back for them


BUT....if your core group of guys stay within your series and never go any farther..well they are golden...they have no idea of the other world out there and are happy using the same ol stuff every week..good for them honestly...

you recently allowed the ballistic motor in your series..."change" and now track records are falling....that will happen when you allow "new' technolgy into your series...

i think it would be awesome if you had a "pro" class and allowed any roar legal lipo to be used and motor...i think than humpty wouldn't look like pete or franky on the track so much..

and again if everyone only allowed one brand motor and battery we close shops for good!

and i ask "why just motor and batteries and not tires,esc's and cars" realy to be fair and equal racer A is using brand X car and is stomping racer B with brand Z car...let's make brand X car illegal to use....i like the competition between all companies and feel they all should be allowed to play in our sand box...and i also feel there should be a class that is "spec" to keep racing cheap for the avg 2 kids wife and dog racer out there..there is room for all of us my friend..we just have to think outside the box

Hey Katf1sh someone has stole your pass word and is on Hobby Talk making Post. You better get with Hank and put a stop to it. LOL.

You coming up in Nov?

you hace a PM.

,,,,,

c rating is useless joe

danny himself said to keep the pack dimensions the same size and it will be hard to build a better mouse trap inside the same space...

in the end joe you just want the lipo packs to level out and stay semi consistant? i think we all do,lol


thanks allan..but i'm affraid it's short lived when you read the logo section,lol.

i'm good on my meds....bad when i'm out!

.....