The last of the Kennedy brothers has left the world:(
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090826/us_nm/us_kennedy

Rest in peace Ted...I'm a big fan of the Kennedys...even when it wasn't fashionable to do so...:cry:
Mcdee

Hmmmm.

Could get interesting.

A true champion of social justice, equality, and spokesman for the down trodden. A true American who devoted a good portion of his life to his country.

A true champion of social justice, equality, and spokesman for the down trodden. A true American who devoted a good portion of his life to his country.

Opinions on that vary. A LOT.

A LOT.

A Whole Lot!!!

Teddy wasn't perfect, but he spent a good deal of his life fighting what I consider to be the Good Fight. Which is more than most politicians can say.

God Bless, and Rest in Peace.

I'm in Hyannis Port right now with about 20 other TV trucks going live. It's an odd sight- so many people here, media & onlookers, but yet there's no real "action" going on. The media is corralled at the top of Marchant Ave, patiently waiting for anyone to come & talk from "the compound". Definantly a quiet but anxious day.

Here's a few snapshots I took for our website:
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/senator_ted_kennedy_photo_gallery

I hope he rests in peace. Too bad it can't be left at that.

My attitude is that if a liberal like me can mourn the passing of Republican icons like Ronald Reagan and William Buckley then my conservative friends ought to be able to do likewise with Ted Kennedy. Perhaps that's asking to much; some people can't see past the end of their own dogma, but I can find plenty to admire about each of the three men mentioned above irrespective of their political leanings -- especially within the context of their passing.

"But don't you realize, that's where I sail!"

Hard to respect any person who'd say that.

No. Make that impossible.

/google it for context

From Wikipedia:
"Kennedy contacted several aides that night, but failed to report the incident to the authorities until the car and Kopechne's body were discovered the next morning. Kopechne's parents said that they learned of their daughter's death from Ted Kennedy himself, before he reported his involvement to the authorities, but that they learned Kennedy had been the driver only from wire press releases some time later."

You're right, kinda difficult. :(

Kennedy made mistakes, no doubt about it. None of us has a spotless record. Certainly no politician does, just ask Churchill (or, more to the point, Ghandi).

On the occasion of a man's passing I can generally find it in my heart to focus, however briefly, on the good things he accomplished rather than the bad. This is as true of Kennedy as it was of, say, Nixon (although I draw the line at Hitler. Any way you dice it, that guy was bad news).

At any rate, if I was the sort prone to rendering judgement on a man's life based on a single (admittedly asinine) statement I'd never find anyone to "respect." Great men, almost without exception, do and say foolish, even despicable things. Taken measure for measure I find Teddy Kennedy to be less despicable than, say, Rush Limbaugh, but that's just me. And for the record, when Limbaugh dies, I'll find something nice to say about him too.

Kennedy made mistakes, no doubt about it. None of us has a spotless record. Certainly no politician does, just ask Churchill (or, more to the point, Ghandi).

On the occasion of a man's passing I can generally find it in my heart to focus, however briefly, on the good things he accomplished rather than the bad. This is as true of Kennedy as it was of, say, Nixon (although I draw the line at Hitler. Any way you dice it, that guy was bad news).

At any rate, if I was the sort prone to rendering judgement on a man's life based on a single (admittedly asinine) statement I'd never find anyone to "respect." Great men, almost without exception, do and say foolish, even despicable things. Taken measure for measure I find Teddy Kennedy to be less despicable than, say, Rush Limbaugh, but that's just me. And for the record, when Limbaugh dies, I'll find something nice to say about him too.

Not to be pedantic but you're well aware that the definition of good and bad varies from person to person. It can be quite subjective; in the case of Kennedy I've no doubt yours will drastically differ from mine.

Were we to step back in time to Germany in, say, 1935, there'd be a LOT of support for the evil b*st*rd among almost all Germans - including those who were not fans of the NSDAP and in fact privately loathed it. After all - Hitler DID make the trains run on time, reduced their ghastly unemployment, turned Germany from flat broke to an industrial giant, etc.

No, I'm not defending Hitler; just illustrating how appealing to "the good" any person did, living or dead, is very dicey.

In the interest of serious and possibly fruitful discussion, you might post brief rundowns on all the major bills Kennedy sponsored during his time in office. The facts thereof would be an objective measure by which you might sway some of us here, rather than appealing to an assumed common definition of "the good."

And for the record, when Limbaugh dies, I'll find something nice to say about him too.


:thumbsup: And that says a lot for YOUR character, too! :thumbsup:

In the interest of serious and possibly fruitful discussion, you might post brief rundowns on all the major bills Kennedy sponsored during his time in office. The facts thereof would be an objective measure by which you might sway some of us here, rather than appealing to an assumed common definition of "the good."

Thanks for the swell offer, but I long ago stopped trying to sway the opinions of those whose minds are already made up, especially when discussing politically charged material on a model making forum. That, of course, doesn't mean I don't have an opinion; merely that I'm content to voice it without having others agree with it. For example, when I stated earlier that I thought TK "spent a good deal of his life fighting what I consider to be the Good Fight" I assumed it would be read as a statement of personal opinion as opposed to some sort of blanket statement regarding the nature of Good and Evil.

Clearly your opinion re: TK differs from mine, and that's fine. And by "fine" I mean I don't really care one way or the other. A flawed man who for years championed civil rights has died. Praise him, diss him, whatever.

A true champion of social justice, equality, and spokesman for the down trodden. A true American who devoted a good portion of his life to his country.

I'm sure Mary Jo Kopechne would disagree.

Kennedy made mistakes, no doubt about it. None of us has a spotless record. Certainly no politician does, just ask Churchill (or, more to the point, Ghandi).

On the occasion of a man's passing I can generally find it in my heart to focus, however briefly, on the good things he accomplished rather than the bad. This is as true of Kennedy as it was of, say, Nixon (although I draw the line at Hitler. Any way you dice it, that guy was bad news).

At any rate, if I was the sort prone to rendering judgement on a man's life based on a single (admittedly asinine) statement I'd never find anyone to "respect." Great men, almost without exception, do and say foolish, even despicable things. Taken measure for measure I find Teddy Kennedy to be less despicable than, say, Rush Limbaugh, but that's just me. And for the record, when Limbaugh dies, I'll find something nice to say about him too.

Rush Limbaugh never killed anyone. You can say you can't be judged all your life for one mistake but in this case I'll make an exception. Had his name been Jones he would have been charged with manslaughter.

Rush Limbaugh never killed anyone.

Thanks for the line. I'll try to remember it for when Limbaugh dies.

I'm sure Mary Jo Kopechne would disagree.

No doubt the Kopechne family would be touched by your moral outrage. Especially since your concern for their loss isn't motivated by your political leanings.

looks like this is now a political thread..lol

looks like this is now a political thread..lol

It was a political thread on the first page - which is unavoidable with someone of Kennedy's political stature. Unfortunately it was inevitable that it would turn into the same partisan snipefest, involving the same predictable opinions, expressed by the same predictable individuals - that we have seen before.

It was a political thread on the first page - which is unavoidable with someone of Kennedy's political stature. Unfortunately it was inevitable that it would turn into the same partisan snipefest, involving the same predictable opinions, expressed by the same predictable individuals - that we have seen before.

I know what you mean. Rob should give Rush Limbaugh a rest. It's an obsession.

looks like this is now a political thread..lol

Bound to happen given how despised the Kennedy family is in some quarters.

The "real life" passing of a controversial "Great Man" types like Buckley, Reagan or Kennedy reminds me why CITIZEN KANE is such a great and enduring movie.

Consider this passage from the opening montage...

THATCHER
Mr. Charles Foster Kane, in
every essence of his social beliefs and
by the dangerous manner in which he has
persistently attacked the American
traditions of private property, initiative
and opportunity for advancement, is - in
fact - nothing more or less than a
COMMUNIST!

Newsreel of Union Square meeting. A speaker is on the platform above the crowd.

SPEAKER
Charles Foster Kane is today what he has
always been and always will be - A
FASCIST!

NARRATOR
And yet another opinion...

TITLE:

"I AM, HAVE BEEN, AND WILL BE ONLY ONE THING - AN AMERICAN."

-- CHARLES FOSTER KANE.

I know what you mean. Rob should give Rush Limbaugh a rest.

What I get for promising to say something nice.

My attitude is that if a liberal like me can mourn the passing of Republican icons like Ronald Reagan and William Buckley then my conservative friends ought to be able to do likewise with Ted Kennedy. Perhaps that's asking to much; some people can't see past the end of their own dogma, but I can find plenty to admire about each of the three men mentioned above irrespective of their political leanings -- especially within the context of their passing.

Ok Ron, Kennedy did a lot of good and my views aren't always left or right. As much as I hate to admit it I voted for Jimmy Carter for God sake. Kennedy had a lot of bad happen to him and that may explain his reckless behavior. If you can admit you mourned Reagan and Buckley then here's to you. Perhaps the tone of the country these days is a reason for my dismay. The health care issue causes me worry because I see it as the final take over of our lives. Leave my insurance alone and leave me alone. I pay enough taxes and I don't want my life disrupted.

What I get for promising to say something nice.

Can't you guys on the left laugh every once in a while? I was born in California and my father was on the committee to elect George McGovern in 1968. I just can't stomach what the Democratic party has become. John Kennedy would be considered a right winger by these guys today because he lowered taxes. You have to disagree with the attitude of some of the more radical branch of the party today don't you?

If you can admit you mourned Reagan and Buckley then here's to you.

Although I despised Reagan's domestic record, his can-do rhetoric was a much needed antidote to Carter's well-meaning but ineffectual non-leadership. Moreover, Reagan understood the leaders of the Soviet Union far better than my fellow liberals will generally admit. By no means did Reagan "end the Cold War," but he helped show it the door.

As for Buckley, two things in particular endeared him to me: First, watching Noam Chomsky calmly and rationally rip him to intellectual shreds in front of a live Crossfire audience (look it up on YouTube; it's a classic). Second, reading the political game-changing essay in which Buckley announced that, thanks to the Bush/Rove administration, the Republican party had been allowed to swing dangerously too far to the right. I mean, when William F. Buckley announces the country has swung too far to the right, you know something's amiss.

I pay enough taxes and I don't want my life disrupted.

Now you're just being downright unreasonable. :)

Although I despised Reagan's domestic record, his can-do rhetoric was a much needed antidote to Carter's well-meaning but ineffectual non-leadership. Moreover, Reagan understood the leaders of the Soviet Union far better than my fellow liberals will generally admit. By no means did Reagan "end the Cold War," but he helped show it the door.

As for Buckley, two things in particular endeared him to me: First, watching Noam Chomsky calmly and rationally rip him to intellectual shreds in front of a live Crossfire audience (look it up on YouTube; it's a classic). Second, reading the political game-changing essay in which Buckley announced that, thanks to the Bush/Rove administration, the Republican party had been allowed to swing dangerously too far to the right. I mean, when William F. Buckley announces the country has swung too far to the right, you know something's amiss.



Now you're just being downright unreasonable. :)

I've watched that video several times. But I like the Buckley/Vidal flareup. Classic.

You have to disagree with the attitude of some of the more radical branch of the party today don't you?

Let me put it this way; I distrust fanatical, chest-thumping, drum-beating idealogues of any stripe. On the other hand, I have far more faith in the current administration than I did the previous one.

Congress is another matter. What a bunch of weenies.

Good Lord Above, you folks can't give much of anyone any real respect. And then some of you folks have to take that giant step and knowingly cross the line in to POLITICS, a subject you know is Verboten. :rolleyes:

Last Word here for The Movie's Section - NO MORE POLITICS. That'll get you a nice, long time out.