Absolutely WORST ENDING TO ANY SCIENCE FICTION SHOW IN TV HISTORY.

Good God. What a disaster. No BSG models in my future. The thought of that show now just disgusts me.


http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/battlestars-daybreak-worst-ending-history-screen-science-fiction

So, Bryan Singer is doing a new version of this? GOOD. It can't be worse than this.

It was the end. Of a great show!

Actually, as much as I didn't like Ron Moore's version of BSG, I did like the finale episode for the series. It started off a bit slow and I thought the "other" Earth that was found at the end of Season 3 was complete crap, but as for how the seried ended 50,000 years in our past, I rather enjoyed it.

I know that there were quite a few fans of the series that did not feel as I did about it, though.

Bryan

Evidently you haven't seen the end of DS9, Voyager and Enterprise!

I liked the ending just fine. I've got a few issues of my own w/how some of the details played out, but overall, I liked it.

Evidently you haven't seen the end of DS9, Voyager and Enterprise!

ND -

I might agree with you there. The ending for Enterprise was definitely one of the worst I've seen. The ending for DS9 is very far back in my memory, but I remember not thinking much of it. Voyager wasn't too bad, just very abrupt. I would have liked the crew to find their way home with one or two episodes left in the series to show them reuniting with families, etc.

Bryan

Only issue I had was that the entire Colonial 'history' was lost. No trace of them in our past...

Only issue I had was that the entire Colonial 'history' was lost. No trace of them in our past...

I think that was done by design. So that the human race would start from the very beginning.

They were a high technology people that tried to live as stoneage people. No technology, no medical resources, with famine, disease, accidents, and suicides. The odds are that they were all dead within five years, and given how insular, and distrustful primitive cultures tend to be, I believe the people of the Earth are the descendants of the people of Earth, not of the colonies.

David.

And they would have to mate with cave people. Not Raquel Welch in a bikini. Just Big hairy stinky stupid semi animals.

The BSG finale had scope. It defied expectations. It sparked debate. It confounded easy categorization. I found it to be bold, frustrating, epic, and refreshingly spiritual, not unlike the ending of "2001." In short, it was an aptly ambiguous ending to a show that was better at raising interesting questions than it was at answering them. And I mean that as a compliment.

Those expecting to have all the loose ends tied up in a tidy little package were destined to be disappointed.

I am pretty darn sure Glen Larson actually tossed this ending concept out in a TV Guide interview about the original show during its original run. "Maybe they'll find Earth, land and find a bunch of cave men." I don't know whether it was an intentional salute by Moore or the original quote was lost to history, it just rang very familiar. I did like aspects of it, I'm not sure it answers all the questions raised by the series but that doesn't infuriate me the way it does some.

As a whole, it was still probably the best sci-fi show in history.
But for me, there were a lot of things they could have done but didn't.

All throughout the series, they asked the question 'why does humanity 'deserve' to survive'?

I thought they were setting up Baltar to be the 'Jesus' charactor.
Thru a non direct act (self weakness), he is resposible for the destruction of humanity.
I was thinking/hoping that thru some act he would be the answer to that question.

The BSG finale had scope. It defied expectations. It sparked debate. It confounded easy categorization. I found it to be bold, frustrating, epic, and refreshingly spiritual, not unlike the ending of "2001." In short, it was an aptly ambiguous ending to a show that was better at raising interesting questions than it was at answering them. And I mean that as a compliment.

Those expecting to have all the loose ends tied up in a tidy little package were destined to be disappointed.

Rob -

That's pretty much the view of it that I had. It was the one part of the series that showed a bit of optimism - a characteristic that was largely lacking through 4 seasons of BSG. I liked the idea of those people to be daring enough to strip themselves bare of their technology and begin all over again on a new world. In reality, is it a bit scary? Yessir! But, it's not reality, it's a television show, so they have the luxury of ditching practicality for something unusual and unexpected.

Bryan

All throughout the series, they asked the question 'why does humanity 'deserve' to survive'?

The significance of that question is that there is no one pat and easy "TV Show" answer; none that would ring true at any rate. Certainly BSG invited viewers to ponder the issue for themselves, individually and collectively, and I applaud Moore & Co. for resisting the temptation to spoon feed us an answer (which invariably would have lessoned the power of the question).

The older I get the more I appreciate a TV show that respects my intelligence with regard to thematic issues. I couldn't care less about the details of how the Colonists managed to survive on NuEarth; I take it on faith that they did (if Colonists can survive Jamestown they can survive anything). Thematically speaking, within the context of the series, the characters in BSG had earned a break, reboot, reset, whatever you want to call it from technology. Who cares if it doesn't make logistical sense from a purely logistical "real world" standpoint; dramatically speaking it was just what the doctor ordered.

Doesn't work for you? That's cool. Personally, I think the BSG finale represents some of the finest Sci-Fi TV I've ever seen.

Hey, even if I didn't like the ending, I loved the hardware, and that's what I want models of.

If Moebius makes a model of 37,000 colonists walking in a line thru the savannah, I'll pass on that.

I'd love a Starbuck model! ;)
I was sad that Kara vanished after her mission was complete.

Overall, the ending did make sense to me but there were still some loose ends like, how did Kara's destroyed viper end up on the first Earth with her body so far from where it was destroyed? How did Angel/Kara benefit from finding Human/Kara? I realize that the locator beacon led them to the planet but that could have been done without Kara's body so that the mystery could be continued to the end.

It was never clearly stated unless I missed it but I'm assuming the Cylon's great "plan" was to eventually shed their metal bodies and become mortal flesh and blood.

While I think Adama's idea to make a fresh start without the technology, It seemed foolhardy to me to drive all of the ships into the sun when they could have used them for shelter until future generations had completely adapted to the new world's environment instead of just having everyone stroll off intot he horizon. A bit of a western's riding off into the sunset to me.

I was, however, happy to see it brought up how we, in real life, are following a similar path with the building of our own robots. It was just about the only show to real life connection I really felt. It was subtle, yet scary where we may be heading in the future.

They were a high technology people that tried to live as stoneage people. No technology, no medical resources, with famine, disease, accidents, and suicides. The odds are that they were all dead within five years, and given how insular, and distrustful primitive cultures tend to be, I believe the people of the Earth are the descendants of the people of Earth, not of the colonies.

David.

Yeah, and all because Lee went for a walk with his dad and said, 'gee, this isn't working out....let's send all our spaceships and technology into the sun and live like cavemen, won't that be fun'?

How much better off the 40,000 survivors of the Cylon genocide would have been if our hero, Lee, had taken a BULLET TO THE HEAD.

Yes, he did in one little stroll what 100 nuclear weapons and an entire fleet of Cylons could not achieve - he totally wiped out the last vestiges of Colonial civilization, down to the last man, woman, child.

How much better off the 40,000 survivors of the Cylon genocide would have been if our hero, Lee, had taken a BULLET TO THE HEAD.


:lol::roll:

I want a 1/32 model diorama of the crashed Viper with Kara's burned corpse!

How much better off the 40,000 survivors of the Cylon genocide would have been if our hero, Lee, had taken a BULLET TO THE HEAD.

You obviously place more faith in technology than Lee did. Of course, your homeworld hasn't been annihilated by technology run amuck. Yet.

In any case, when it comes to wiping out Colonial civilization, the Colonials ignorantly and arrogantly set themselves up for that fall long before Lee sent the fleet sunward (good riddance IMO). Which is not to say Lee purged the settlers of their medical stores, along with the means to synthesize said medicine. The early American pioneers didn't exactly live like "cave men," and I see no reason to assume the Colonial pioneers would either.

The whole point of the finale is that by purging the technological sins of the past humanity is given a second chance at a future -- a future in which (God willing) we will have attained the wisdom to master our machines instead being slaves to them. It's a powerful and relevant theme. The notion that the survivors of the Cylon holocaust would be better off clinging to their gadgets flies in the face of that theme, and is therefore dramatically unsatisfying. In Star Trek technology is our friend because we've learned how to use it. In Moore's BSG technology is our enemy because we place too much faith in it, a point the series makes over and over and over.

Which is why I like the Times Square ending so much, posing as it does the question of which future lies ahead for the Children of the Colonies. The suggestion (advanced by Six) is that contemporary mankind has in fact, at long last, learned from his mistakes. On the other hand, there's also a chance that what happened to the Colonials will happen all over again. I know some find that degree of ambiguity to be unsettling, but to me it rings true.

What I took from the whole "this has all happened before, it will happen again" theory was that every cycle of civilization/holocaust had been getting progressively shorter.

By getting rid of the tech and not rebuilding in cities on Earth, what the colonials did didn't completely break the cycle, but postponed it some 250,000 years (or what ever the actual figure was) giving us more breathing room and hopefully time to learn to live with technology and use it more wisely this time

People who watch movies and tv shows have lost the capability to think. They want everything handed to them. For exmple, 2001 was a thinking man's movie. 2010 was a we explain everything movie.

Yes, we're all stupid. What do YOU do for entertainment that's so intelligent?

Yes, we're all stupid. What do YOU do for entertainment that's so intelligent?

I may be wrong, and forgive me if I am, but this post sounds suspiciously like a marketing survey for a discount entertainment coupon book. What percentage of each paycheck do you spend on entertainment?

Read the post on this page, the one being quoted. It's amazingly intelligent for something someone wrote on the internet!

http://forums.syfy.com/index.php?showtopic=2329378&st=900&gopid=6471116&#entry6471116

People who watch movies and tv shows have lost the capability to think. They want everything handed to them. For exmple, 2001 was a thinking man's movie. 2010 was a we explain everything movie.

Actually, I understand that statement and agree with it wholeheartedly. Television and studio execs base their programming on the fact that they don't think that viewing audiences are intelligent. A fact that I find rather funny, because I don't think that TV execs are intelligent either.

Television and movie audiences have been getting shows that are "dumbed down" for the audience for decades thanks to this particular line of thinking. Then, when something comes along that's marginally smarter than the average show or film, people think that it's brilliant by comparison.

When I think of the hours of unscripted television that's out there (aka "reality TV) and how audiences are just eating it up, it just kills me. When you look at how few scripted shows, telefilms, etc. are produced or garner an audience these days, people might be better off just turning the box off and reading a good book. Don't get me wrong, I watch quite a few hours of TV and I always have, but these days, it's pretty much like scraping the bottom of the barrel just to find the occasional good bit that's left to watch.

In terms of the finale for BSG, some people find the ending unbelievable because they've learned to identify with the characters so well, they can't imagine themselves ditching the comforts of their technology to live off the land completely. As some folks have pointed out a number of times, humanity managed to forge a way of life long before modern technology came along. Their average life span might be a lot shorter without that technology, but they would survive. At the time they arrived on Earth, they would've been the smartest bipeds on the planet. If the primitive humans that lived on the planet at that time managed to survive the rigors of roughing it, surely the Colonials with their superior smarts would be able to find shelter, hunt food, etc.

Bryan

Writers are under pressure to come up with a good story. When a show ends, they try and tie everything up and also please everyone which they can't do. I think the BSG team did the best job they could. The worst ending to a show I loved was Quantum Leap, with Sam never getting home. I heard that Bellisario did that just to make his soon to be ex-wife mad because she loved the show so much.

Writers are under pressure to come up with a good story. When a show ends, they try and tie everything up and also please everyone which they can't do. I think the BSG team did the best job they could. The worst ending to a show I loved was Quantum Leap, with Sam never getting home. I heard that Bellisario did that just to make his soon to be ex-wife mad because she loved the show so much.

yea, just what did happen to Sam. I got the impression he was talking to God or an Angel and it was never clear who he was talking to or where he went.

I am pretty darn sure Glen Larson actually tossed this ending concept out in a TV Guide interview about the original show during its original run. "Maybe they'll find Earth, land and find a bunch of cave men." I don't know whether it was an intentional salute by Moore or the original quote was lost to history, it just rang very familiar. I did like aspects of it, I'm not sure it answers all the questions raised by the series but that doesn't infuriate me the way it does some.

He did say that.

There was also a concept for Star Trek - The Motion Picture where the crew ends up in about the same situation. At the end of the film, the damaged Enterprise finds itself around an early Earth during caveman times and the crew becomes the seed for the human race.

I had no problem at all with the ending of the show. I thought it was very well thought out and presented. I actually missed the original broadcast of the finale, as the cable actually failed that night and the recorder received only static. So, I had to wait until the disc release to actually see the ending. It was worth it.

Evidently you haven't seen the end of DS9, Voyager and Enterprise!

Or Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis.

Finales suck. Period. I felt like what people probably felt like when St. Elsewhere ended watching those gems. :mad:

I agree. Love it or hate it, at least Moore and Co. had the stones to end the series on their terms.

I hate those "we'll let the viewer decide what the answer is" endings. That's just "writer-speak" for "we don't know, either"

Hey, I LIKED the ending of St. Elsewhere! If you followed the show and Auschlander's relationship with that autistic kid it was pretty heartbreaking.

Read the post on this page, the one being quoted. It's amazingly intelligent for something someone wrote on the internet!

http://forums.syfy.com/index.php?showtopic=2329378&st=900&gopid=6471116&#entry6471116

The problem with allegedly "intelligent" missives like the one above is that they betray a complete lack of imagination. The literal-minded author is so irritated by Lee’s abandonment of technology and what this may mean in the short term that he completely misses the Big Picture mythological significance of a civilization ending only to be born again. The themes of sacrifice, redemption, and resurrection are woven throughout the series, so it’s not like the idea of the Colonials paying Christ-like for our sins wasn’t foreshadowed.

It’s not a science project… it’s the metaphorical spiritual transformation of mankind. Lee wasn’t choosing “not to live,” any more than Jesus was. He was choosing to follow his (humanity’s) destiny.

The author also has some funny ideas about what hooks an audience. Consider the following quote…

(The BSG series finale) “…makes it difficult to generate any deep interest in the otherwise intriguing Caprica: not only are humanity's strings being pulled by a capricious entity of astonishing power, but no matter what the characters do, their story ends in shallow graves on the plains of pre-historic Africa. Leaving aside the possibility of some remarkable feat of narrative legerdemain that rewrites everything we saw in Battlestar Galactica, it's hard to see how anyone will possibly care what happens."

That’s like saying audiences won’t care about characters aboard the Titanic because they know the ocean liner sinks. Last I checked, "Titanic" was the most financially successful movie in history.

I have no idea if "Caprica" will succeed or not, but if the audience rejects it won’t be because of anything having to do with shallow graves on the plains of Africa.

It’s not a science project… it’s the metaphorical spiritual transformation of mankind.

..and he misses that even something which appears as a solid real spacecraft is a "vehicle for storytelling" more that it represent an actual real world functioning spacecraft. Maybe the author could wind tunnel test a Viper or a Raptor and let us know how that goes.

There's a thread on this net "article" over at SM and I'm as sure as ever that the author thinks a great deal too much of his own ability to critique or persuade.

John O.

Hey, I LIKED the ending of St. Elsewhere! If you followed the show and Auschlander's relationship with that autistic kid it was pretty heartbreaking.

You mean Dr. Westphall. He was the child's father.

There's a thread on this net "article" over at SM and I'm as sure as ever that the author thinks a great deal too much of his own ability to critique or presuade.

Like I needed another reason to avoid SSM, lol.

Finales suck. Period. I felt like what people probably felt like when St. Elsewhere ended watching those gems. :mad:


Not all finales suck.
I loved the finale of The Shield. Perfect end to a great series, at just the right time.
The finale for Charmed was pretty good too, even if it was a season or two after they should have ended the show.

As for BSG - meh.
It was ok. Not awesome, and not horrible.
Then again, by that point I had given up caring about any of the characters, and just wanted to see how they ended the darn thing.
I started watching it because it was some good sci-fi.
Then they turned it into a soap opera in space, and I quit caring.
Only kept watching to see if they might switch back to being good science fiction again. But that never happened.

Westphall, right. :) This is what comes from only watching St. Elsewhere every 15 years or so...

I started watching it because it was some good sci-fi.Then they turned it into a soap opera in space, and I quit caring.
Only kept watching to see if they might switch back to being good science fiction again. But that never happened.

After an insanely strong start the third and fourth seasons were admittedly uneven. Still, I think things came together nicely at the end, delivering a powerful if enigmatic finale worthy of the show's best episodes. The fact that people are still debating the climax is a testament to the extent to which, like "2001," it provoked strong emotions on both sides of the critical balcony. Seems to me that's what good writing (or, for that matter, good art) is supposed to do.

After an insanely strong start the third and fourth seasons were admittedly uneven. Still, I think things came together nicely at the end, delivering a powerful if enigmatic finale worthy of the show's best episodes. The fact that people are still debating the climax is a testament to the extent to which, like "2001," it provoked strong emotions on both sides of the critical balcony. Seems to me that's what good writing (or, for that matter, good art) is supposed to do.

Actually, I was pretty much loosing hope halfway through season 2.
It was pretty obvious what type of show it was becoming by that point.

I don't regret the time I spent watching the show. And it's not like there was anything better to watch during that timeslot.
But if I had to choose between watching one of the better eps of BSG, or a mediocre ep of SG1, Stargate would win every time.
But that is my personal taste.

I'm glad you guys that loved the show, got to see a series you enjoyed end on it's own terms.
That is a very rare thing for sci-fi TV shows.

Actually, I was pretty much loosing hope halfway through season 2. It was pretty obvious what type of show it was becoming by that point.

Man, if the season two climax (i.e. the sudden fast-forward to a drugged out President Baltar on New Caprica presiding over a soon-to-be-captive Colonial internment camp), struck you as "obvious" you're a seriously more sophisticated viewer than yours truly. I mean, I still like watching old Irwin Allen shows. :)

Thing is, BSG was destined to be a seriously flawed series because it wasn't afraid to fail, and therefore it tried things no other series would have dared to try. Even in failure it was usually interesting, but when it succeeded it did so spectacularly. IMO.

I don't regret the time I spent watching the show. And it's not like there was anything better to watch during that timeslot.
But if I had to choose between watching one of the better eps of BSG, or a mediocre ep of SG1, Stargate would win every time.
But that is my personal taste.


Gotta agree, at least in part. I loved watching BSG (mostly), and there is a lot of it I'd like to see again, but there's a LOT of it I don't care to go thru again! I guess I won't be buying the series on DVD

That's a shame, John, 'cause you could fast forward thru all that "drama" stuff and just watch the kewel ship scenes. That's what I've had to do with likely half of both Seasons Three and Four. As much as I love this incarnation of BSG, some of the episodes were definitely "meh".

I'd argue, tho, that you should still get the series on DVD, if only for the screen cap capabilities. I've done 'caps of prolly 90% of the first three seasons for the ships alone, trying to get unique 'caps that haven't been posted anywhere else online. I've not edited all of them, but have done quite a few of those ships. I've been posting screencaps of specific ships, as well as one thread of general RTF pics, at the Battlestar Galactica: The New Series Forum (http://www.resinilluminati.com/forumdisplay.php?f=76) at Resin Illuminati. You have to register as a member to view any of the threads there, but it's free and relatively quick now that they've got the SPAM Filters in place.

That 'minds me... I need to get back to editing those pics one of these days. :o

.

Man, if the season two climax (i.e. the sudden fast-forward to a drugged out President Baltar on New Caprica presiding over a soon-to-be-captive Colonial internment camp), struck you as "obvious" you're a seriously more sophisticated viewer than yours truly. I mean, I still like watching old Irwin Allen shows. :)

Thing is, BSG was destined to be a seriously flawed series because it wasn't afraid to fail, and therefore it tried things no other series would have dared to try. Even in failure it was usually interesting, but when it succeeded it did so spectacularly. IMO.

Actually, I liked that turn of events. And saw a lot of potential with that story line.
Though they didn't stay there long enough and let things develop onscreen.

No, I was referring to eps like the foray into the black-market, and several others that were very soft on story. Which wouldn't have been too bad if they were great character eps. But usually whatever character developement came from those type eps was usually discarded and thrown out the airlock for whatever shocking twist they wanted the character to take next.

Which is why I quit caring about the characters. And with no interest in the characters, or what heppened to them, then that seriously altered how I saw the series.

I can understand that thinking w/the characters. I got that way at one point or another with ALL of the characters. I went back and forth on Apollo and Starbuck several times, but felt that there were also several which remained consistant and that I thought a lot of throughout the series run, such as Helo, Adama, Dualla... I think that in the last couple of episodes, tho, I got to where I felt almost all of them were worth something, with only a couple of exceptions.

I'll tell ya the aspect of the new BSG That I cared for least and that was all of the ups and downs and instant promotions and demotions of Lee Adama

he's a pilot, he's a CAG, no he's a commander of the Pegasus, now he's a lawyer, then he's on the Quorum, now he's the president. I'm sure at one point he was the guy who gassed up the vipers and checked their oil.

that and The "Old Man's" tantrums. How many times can you go to that well before it loses its emotional impact?

Still a fine show, but now that some time has passed, I can look at it with clearer vision

that and The "Old Man's" tantrums. How many times can you go to that well before it loses its emotional impact?



Yeah.
The first time he smashed that ship of his had such an emotional impact.
Then they went to that well again, and not only did it seem forced, it also took away from the original moment for me as well.

I really liked the ending. I thought it was completely unexpected and moving. Now if you want to talk about a terrible ending, can anybody say 'Enterprise'?