The tour should just go with SMC 40c or 25c batterys and Novak only motors for the next two seasons end of the problem. It works trust me just go look at how electric dirt oval came back!! Sure some will bitch but most of the guys will realize this will save them money in the long run and when a new person comes to a race to watch and he decides he wants to race its a lot easier sell with "this battery is legal and the only one you can use for the next two years no matter how many new packs the manufactures come out with. And trust me if the TOUR wants it Danny at SMC will garuntee the packs availability just like he did for the DODC!

I agree to a point BUT what about the guy whos sponsered and has to buy a competators batt and motor ... Theres no reason you cant run multiple batts and motors and still have great racing ... Tech the motors and seal them and the same for the batts ....jsut my opinion and its like rearends everyones got one ..... SRM:)

I'll give you a good example. There were 4 of us running 10.5 single cell today. 2 had ss novak motors, 1 ballistic motor, and 1 duo2...and we all just about ran all over eachother for 4 minutes....The motors arent that big of a deal as they were.

Why not use Thunder Power Batteries and Tekin Motor!!!!!!!! Yeah SMC is helping, 40c batterys out 3 weeks, then puts out a 50C battery....NO THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

I've seen it all before, put a hold on batteries and motors for 2 years and 3 months in racers will be having a fit because they can't run the lastest greatest thing out.......Then they let everyone run them and the same idiots will have a fit about having to buy new batteries and motors every 3 months..........It is Very Funny from my seat!!!!!!!

Why not use Thunder Power Batteries and Tekin Motor!!!!!!!! Yeah SMC is helping, 40c batterys out 3 weeks, then puts out a 50C battery....NO THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

I've seen it all before, put a hold on batteries and motors for 2 years and 3 months in racers will be having a fit because they can't run the lastest greatest thing out.......Then they let everyone run them and the same idiots will have a fit about having to buy new batteries and motors every 3 months..........It is Very Funny from my seat!!!!!!!

We dont have that issue with the dirt racing you want to run the latest greatest battery you run the open mod class

Having competition is what oval racing is about. It is fine to have more than 1 option as long as it is regulated. And it is. 1 battery and 1 motor per season. It is that simple.

This thread is not helping up promote the TOUR. I think most people are fine purchasing 1 battery type every 6 months.

Having competition is what oval racing is about. It is fine to have more than 1 option as long as it is regulated. And it is. 1 battery and 1 motor per season. It is that simple.

This thread is not helping up promote the TOUR. I think most people are fine purchasing 1 battery type every 6 months.

i would agree with this but when a battery company comes out with a new battery and the comes out with a better 1 2 weeks later is crap!!!!
when TP came out with their 40c battery i said why couldnt they make a battery like smc did. you know so everyone didnt have to go buy new batteries. now 2 new batteries in less than a month? thats not cool
yes i know it isnt really a tour problem and roar will rubber stamp it but come on!!!!!!

Yeah, I see your point. I guess I never really thought about it cuz I was waiting to buy a new pack.

I have six nip PF bodies that I cannot use this season in Tour events ( I will be running 13.5 ). It is not Tours fault that I chose to stock up on bodies. It was done before their rules came out. I sold my SMC 4000/25c packs after reading the rules, knowing there would be batteries to come out before 9/01/09. I wanted to support SMC for what they had been doing in lipo work. They even offered to keep the one battery in production for two years. I was waiting to buy batteries and asked on the SMC thread http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=237949&page=15 Post #215 to 218 if a new one cell was in the works. I thank Steve gave me an honest answer for what he knew at the time, and I have waited to buy SMC products.

I think that the racers and track owners that have already gotten the SMC 40c do have a right to be up set, but with the manufacture. What has happened could have been with any of the battery manufactures competting for the racers dollars. Given time this should be fixed.

Tour has created a set of rules and has tried to be fair to racers by offering the twice a year approval on batteries as approved by ROAR. They have aloud the manufactures to supply batteries, with rules for them to adhere to. The real problem is we are now in a shoulder season and some tracks that race year round wanted to adapt the new rules. And as always we racers want the best new new trick to compete with.


I think a lot of racers were looking for a new oval racing organization to create fair rules, fewer classes and help in the cost of racing. Now we have Racers upset about a battery before the first Official Tour event is held and their rules go into effect.

In closing I just want to say. I am behind Tour for Oval racing. We needed an orginization to goveren just the oval part of the hobby. There will never be a rule package or organization that will make everyone happy. Racers always lobby for what is best for them(their pocket book) and their sponsors (if they have them). We all have our agenda. And sense I am offering my opinions: It would be nice to have a class other than 17.5 truck sportman, that was limited to certain equipment. But TOUR needs to get off the ground and have at least one season under their belts to see what may need tweaking.

This is just my opinion.
I could be wrong.
It has happened before.

I have six nip PF bodies that I cannot use this season in Tour events ( I will be running 13.5 ). It is not Tours fault that I chose to stock up on bodies. It was done before their rules came out. I sold my SMC 4000/25c packs after reading the rules, knowing there would be batteries to come out before 9/01/09. I wanted to support SMC for what they had been doing in lipo work. They even offered to keep the one battery in production for two years. I was waiting to buy batteries and asked on the SMC thread http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=237949&page=15 Post #215 to 218 if a new one cell was in the works. I thank Steve gave me an honest answer for what he knew at the time, and I have waited to buy SMC products.

I think that the racers and track owners that have already gotten the SMC 40c do have a right to be up set, but with the manufacture. What has happened could have been with any of the battery manufactures competting for the racers dollars. Given time this should be fixed.

Tour has created a set of rules and has tried to be fair to racers by offering the twice a year approval on batteries as approved by ROAR. They have aloud the manufactures to supply batteries, with rules for them to adhere to. The real problem is we are now in a shoulder season and some tracks that race year round wanted to adapt the new rules. And as always we racers want the best new new trick to compete with.


I think a lot of racers were looking for a new oval racing organization to create fair rules, fewer classes and help in the cost of racing. Now we have Racers upset about a battery before the first Official Tour event is held and their rules go into effect.

In closing I just want to say. I am behind Tour for Oval racing. We needed an orginization to goveren just the oval part of the hobby. There will never be a rule package or organization that will make everyone happy. Racers always lobby for what is best for them(their pocket book) and their sponsors (if they have them). We all have our agenda. And sense I am offering my opinions: It would be nice to have a class other than 17.5 truck sportman, that was limited to certain equipment. But TOUR needs to get off the ground and have at least one season under their belts to see what may need tweaking.

This is just my opinion.
I could be wrong.
It has happened before.

nice post:thumbsup:

Hand those bodies over to me or move up to a faster class .... You cant say I have painted bodies Bro and cant use them move up in class an you are all set .......
On the batt and motor thing the DODC should use tour rules and set dte like ROAR as well asn stick to the rule package .. Putting companies out of the series is not the way to gain support from manufactors as they are blocked out ..... NOT COOL .... Open the rules nad set them for all manufactors and it will make the racing even better .SRM

Rocket, I will be able to use the bodies next summer on asphalt tracks and nitro cars. :thumbsup: The racers in the faster classes would not like having to pass me every 3 laps. :lol: I do know my abilities.:eek:

There are classes that should be open to all manufactures to show case their products and the great racers that repsent them. and I believe the hobby needs them as much as I think a more spec type class is also needed for the racer that likes to attend and support the major events with out having to always need the latest gismo. Dirt oval is making a come-back with its one battery rule.

There is a saying: If you do not study history it is sure to repeat it's self.

This is just my opinion.
I could be wrong.
It has happened before.

Great post Larry ,and you are not wrong about 99 percent and everyone who I talk to about htis always ends the same way .With whats best for them as humans thats are way .... LONG LIFE THE TOUR ..

ROCKET

Hand those bodies over to me or move up to a faster class .... You cant say I have painted bodies Bro and cant use them move up in class an you are all set .......
On the batt and motor thing the DODC should use tour rules and set dte like ROAR as well asn stick to the rule package .. Putting companies out of the series is not the way to gain support from manufactors as they are blocked out ..... NOT COOL .... Open the rules nad set them for all manufactors and it will make the racing even better .SRM

Well when a carpet oval race pulls 200 drivers for a local tour points event then you can say that! Im done with this

I was afraid of this...

I know it's hard for us to get past ourselves but SMC makes batteries for more than just oval racing. They way I see it is this is not a TOUR deal but an SMC deal and I know that the dudes in charge wont let us down. The battery companies are in as much competition as we are on the track. I know it sucks buying stuff and better stuff comes out the next week but in the end competition helps us the racers.

I say take your 40c batteries and spank the pack because you know how to tune a race car, then you will really have something to brag about... or sell it and buy one of the 50c batteries if it makes you feel better.

GO TOUR!!!!

Bill

RE: DODC

They did a great job on the rules, but I'm not really sure how well they're being used or if you can give them credit for the increase in participation. I know in the midwest, DO was already making huge gains in participation before the rules, and they're all running open mod for the most part. Can't speak for other areas of the country though...

They still are getting huge car counts but in the pits everyones not happy ...Open the batt and motor rules and do tech on the motors and batts like any other large event ..... SRM

Maybe were you from, but there happy every place else and thats the reality of it.

The DODC approached Novak to supply the motors they sell for their series. I'm sure they had their reasons, and I haven't heard any feedback indicating that the motors have not been acceptable to the DODC members.

(If the DODC had selected your preferred motor, would you have the same comments about opening it up to all manufacturers?)

Some members of this forum were doing virtual handsprings when they thought that the TOUR had selected their very own favorite motor for the modified spec event....

The DODC approached Novak to supply the motors they sell for their series. I'm sure they had their reasons, and I haven't heard any feedback indicating that the motors have not been acceptable to the DODC members.

(If the DODC had selected your preferred motor, would you have the same comments about opening it up to all manufacturers?)

Some members of this forum were doing virtual handsprings when they thought that the TOUR had selected their very own favorite motor for the modified spec event....

Everyone loves the dodc Novak motor thank you for a reliable motor!

Pan car stuff for sale in the classified section

Its not that one company is better than the other (FYI...IMO Novak has the best motor so far...Havnt tried the DUO2 yet). Having choices is not always a bad thing.

If you want to run a Novak motor than do it, if you want to run Epic then do it. It is that simple. Once everyone realizes it is not the motor that is making you lose then our hobby will be that much better off.

I have no horses in the race as I run what I want to run Novak ,Trinity,LRP,Tekin . I guess my one and only point is why does any one manufactor get a monopoly on any series of races ... It seems to me that paying 90.00 foir a motor and 90.00 for a batt doesnt make sence to me ... Im not on here bashing Novak or SMC [heck im friends with Danny] and I think both companies have good product ,But when I go to races and have to travel long distances to get there the cost add up .. If all the motors are the same at the tech table why cant I run whats in my box?? Thats what many guys are saying as the cost of rcing keeps going up in ways like this ..So my fix was to borrow motors and batts for the Pa nitro series so I could race with friends for the summer ...Thats all keep the cost down and when racing on dirt its 90 percent car and tires to begin with ....

Hope this lcears up any opinions that may have caused you to think Im anti-novak[ actually if you saw my box you would think differently ...I just dont see how locking in a motor company or battery company helps the average JOE

Blaze away ROCKET;)

I have nothing against allowing multiple manufacturers. I just think there needs to be some sort of lock on technology for more than 6 months.

By locking in a paticular motor or battery for a one or two year period you bring stability to your racing program. You know that your stuff is legal and not going to be obsolete no matter what the manufactures decide to put on the market. The sooner you stop letting the manufactures run your race tracks and series the sooner car counts will rise. The 13.5 and 17.5 class should follow one motor one battery. the 10.5 or mod should be for the guys who like buying the latest and greatest stuf on the market.

Below is a quote from Rob Cutman from another site and i agree 100%

The motors still need to be teched, and that is the case with an open (any 13.5) motor rule as well. The advantage of the spec motor is that a race director only has 1 motor that he needs to be familiar with or know the specs on to be able to tech it accurately. Current ROAR rules allow a dozen or so 13.5 motors that all have different specs regarding what would be considered a legal or un tampered with motor. I can assure there is very little if any teching going on at the open (any 13.5) motor races.

Well, honestly a motor is a motor, but with the batteries, since everyone is using the almighty C rating as the number of importance, why not just lock in a C rating... your not excluding anyone, and everyone can bring something to the table.

I agree totally. I think locking in a certain C rating is a fair way to go. Doing that does not exclude any manufacturer, sponsored driver, or anything. It also helps keep costs down since racers always feel like they HAVE to have the newest thing to be competitive.

--Cory

Hello everyone, I have been out of town for the weekend and was somewhat shocked to log on and see all this.

First let me address the locking of battery for a extended period.

The BRL did so for the period of one season and it worked for them. At the end of last season we found almost everyone was wanting to go to lipo and get away from C cells. If it had been locked in for a longer period it would have to been changed or suffer loss of racers. ( Correct me if I am wrong Chuck)

DODC has had success this year with locking one battery one motor. But running on dirt is totally different that carpet or concrete. You cant compare apples to oranges.
And when I read their thread there is quite a bit of bitching now going on about this rule. Is it wrong? I dont know I dont have a dog in that race.

Now in carpet to my knowledge no one has ever tried on a national scale to lock battery in for a season. What I have seen over the years they have run more people out of racing than any other one thing. So we have attempted to try and change this. By setting a deadline for new approvals.

Now what I have seen on here is this weekend is manily 3 things that seems to be stirring people up.

1. People who have gone out and bought battries before the deadline. Why??? battries dont have to be built anymore, tested to see which of 10 packs are the best, nursed along and so forth. What happened the rumor mill starts that something better is coming out!!!! Here is today's new rumor, it not! Is that true ? I dont know it is just another rumor. Wait to buy until after the deadline. If you cant, and have to haqve one test with, what you have spent for one battery is half of what it cost to take your wife out for dinner and movie.

2 Track owners who really dont want stability in the industy. Why because they may loose racers to a neighboring track if everybody runs the same rules.Or they dont like a body rule. Or because I'm ugly. Who knows why! But if they play it right and try and unite oval racing they might just pick up racers.

3. The other thing you are seeing is racers who are real pumped up with the success of the DODC. And i dont take anything away from them or the DODC. The TOUR is very fortunate to have the support of many racers who are excited about what we are trying to do. The DODC is not wrong but just like they did, we have to crawl before we can run. And we will learn as we go.

I always appreciate constructive input from everyone. But we did not come up with this all overnight. A lot of work has gone into it. Please give it a chance to work before you call it a failure.

lame lame lame move to california and race in the SW tour series...while your at it...pick one food item that is your favorite and only eat that for two years! :rolleyes:

Some members of this forum were doing virtual handsprings when they thought that the TOUR had selected their very own favorite motor for the modified spec event....

i would have broken everything within 10 miles of my house and lost 10 inches of height! i'm 350 on a good day! no hand springs for me.....

let the creme rise to the top

buy your damn batteries twice a year

go race have fun and stop crying!

I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT DIRT OVAL DOES!
WE ARE HAIRY CHESTED MEN IF WE WANTED TO GET OUR KNEES DIRTY WE WOULD TAKE UP GARDENING!!!! :rolleyes:

I always appreciate constructive input from everyone.

that dang small print! :freak:

lame lame lame move to california and race in the SW tour series...while your at it...pick one food item that is your favorite and only eat that for two years!

Kat you are hilarious sometimes (and other times...you just THINK you are)

LOL I'd much rather have gone through 2 different (One brand batteries), then a couple different (Other Brand) and 4-5 Brands of MOTORS this past year and a half, but I just can't see how chasing ALL that crap actually makes a BETTER SHOW on the track.

So, if you banish people to CA to run with the SWT - I'm afraid....I'd accept them with OPEN arms (and be willing to share the next 2 years worth of PEPPERONI PIZZA with them) My food choice for the next 2 years!! (but I have selected just ONE BRAND for my PIZZA and it AIN'T DOMINOS!)

As Allan has said, a lot of thought and discussion went into the TOUR rules package. In addition to Allan and Steve that discussion involved event and series promoters / organizers and there was considerable debate about motor and battery limits. I represented the BRL, a series which is often held up as an example of success while limiting motor / battery choice. But the actuality is there is only one instance in the past where the BRL has locked in a single brand and spec for a battery for even one season. That is our 21.5 / 2S lipo class. All other classes, including our 17.5 / 2S class last year were open to multiple brands of batteries.

I think a part of the problem here is that people confuse the TOUR with series like the BRL or the SWT. The TOUR is an effort to create a national (hopefully) set of rules which can be used by multiple tracks, events and series. The hope is it will bring about some standardization in the equipment needed to run carpet oval, especially for those who would like to travel and race.

The BRL, SWT, etc are regional series. While I think it is possible for a regional series to take a 1 brand approach, I don't think it is practical for a national approach. I realize DODC has gone the spec route but Allan has already pointed out that comparing carpet racing to dirt racing is an apples to oranges comparison.

Let's be real here guys, can you imagine the screaming if the TOUR said the only legal motors came from brand A and batteries from brand B? Look at the bitching for limiting 13.5 bodies to COT type even when different brands are allowed. If you look through the forums here on HobbyTalk you can find literally hundreds of posts criticizing the BRL for it's restrictive motor rules in the past. It worked for our racers in our region but those posts show it wasn't going to work nationally.

All of us involved with helping to create the TOUR rules package regret that some people have been "caught" with the wrong bodies or purchased batteries before the approval deadline and now have to decide whether to spend additional money if a better one is approved. But imagine how many folks would be sitting with the wrong motors or batteries or what have you if we had gone the single motor brand / single battery route. Remember, most of the country wasn't following a single motor rule before the TOUR rules were published. And single cell lipo technology was just becoming mainstream.

The TOUR rules lock in approved batteries for 6 months. In those parts of the country where carpet racing is seasonal, that'll mean a racer won't have to chase new batteries introduced during the season. They will be locked in at the season's start and those will be the only batteries approved for the rest of the carpet season. It isn't perfect but it's a lot better than chasing after the next batch of NIMH's as we did for a couple of seasons.

nice post chuck!

the DODC could learn from this

Well when a carpet oval race pulls 200 drivers for a local tour points event then you can say that! Im done with this

Lauden

No disrespect, but when are you going to realize that the CARPET and DIRT series are niche markets! What is good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. Until the DODC there wasn't much crossing over. The TOUR deal is great for their style of racing. Granted maybe a few tweaks are in order. I have posed the question in the "questions" thread. Maybe TOUR needs to use only ONE of the ROAR approval dates. I don't know.

But you have a tendancy to jump in and rant about rules when in reality you only run a handful of times a year. You jump in and spend a ton of money on equipment un-educated and when things don't go your way you cry FOUL!!! This is the impression you give. Take a step back and relax. If you have a car, it's legal (no rules on specific cars), if you have a speedo, it's legal, you have a legal motor. All you are really whining about is what? A battery? A body?

Come on! Bodies are cheap in the scheme of things. Just don't rush out and buy a battery yet!!!

I race every week in the winter summer time when i can. Only thing I dont agree with is allowing batteries to be changed every 6 months. I have no issue with anything else. Where were you Sunday? missed a great trackLauden

No disrespect, but when are you going to realize that the CARPET and DIRT series are niche markets! What is good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. Until the DODC there wasn't much crossing over. The TOUR deal is great for their style of racing. Granted maybe a few tweaks are in order. I have posed the question in the "questions" thread. Maybe TOUR needs to use only ONE of the ROAR approval dates. I don't know.

But you have a tendancy to jump in and rant about rules when in reality you only run a handful of times a year. You jump in and spend a ton of money on equipment un-educated and when things don't go your way you cry FOUL!!! This is the impression you give. Take a step back and relax. If you have a car, it's legal (no rules on specific cars), if you have a speedo, it's legal, you have a legal motor. All you are really whining about is what? A battery? A body?

Come on! Bodies are cheap in the scheme of things. Just don't rush out and buy a battery yet!!!

I race every week in the winter summer time when i can. Only thing I dont agree with is allowing batteries to be changed every 6 months. I have no issue with anything else. Where were you Sunday? missed a great track


I hated to miss the race....but it was my anniversary. Had I run i would have been easily in the top 10. I figured if I wanted to go to the Birds w/ no greif I should do the anniversary weekend thing.

see you at the track soon!

Yes thats for sure!!! Im heading to 281 and port over the labor day weekend talk to you later

C Rating is not really a good way to limit batteries. I don't have a ton of experience w/ lipo. I know there were anywhere from 40c to 28c batteries in the a-main of 17.5 last year at the birds.

Hence, pretty good evidence that C rating doesn't specifically mean speed in these low amp draw classes. a 50c pack will have much more of an advantage in a mod touring car over a 28c or even 35c pack, but in 21.5 oval not so much...

Lipo is no different that any other batteries we've ever ran. I would take a 28c pack with higher voltage over a 50c pack anyday with lower voltage in the 17.5 or 21.5

Voltage + Horsepower = WIN

I hated to miss the race....but it was my anniversary. Had I run i would have been easily in the top 10. I figured if I wanted to go to the Birds w/ no greif I should do the anniversary weekend thing.

see you at the track soon!

bob - this has got to be the funniest thing i have ever read

solly told me your wife left your and took you money and business, so what was the anniversary crap ?

and i have no idea where to start with you being EASILY in the top 10

luckily you didn't mention the top 10 of what

and just so you know - your mom is a way better wheel than you

fred

ding ding ding danny is the winner! voltage is king!

I don't know much about the LIPO batteries or even what the numbers mean, but there was a lap put on the track record the first day we ran the 40C's after running 25C batteries all season in the Single Cell 13.5 class at Trains & Lanes. It's an Asphalt track with a 225' Run Line. I would think the C rating makes some sort of difference. Cycling on the GFX would say so also. I doubt there would be that big of a difference between 40-50. I guess we won't know until we have them on a GFX and in competition.

chk-chk

bob - this has got to be the funniest thing i have ever read

solly told me your wife left your and took you money and business, so what was the anniversary crap ?

and i have no idea where to start with you being EASILY in the top 10

luckily you didn't mention the top 10 of what

and just so you know - your mom is a way better wheel than you

fred


FRED

The ex-wife took everyting. This is wife #2, which has already given 100% backing for the Birds. (no tire kicking, I have even requested that I have a room right next to the World Champion)

If I had run JRC I would have had enough points to make the top 10 in 13.5. (I won't mention the rest)

Mom's pretty good on dirt. She kicked a$$ in a real race car!!!

rj

been there done that on the one motor type. it stunk then and it stinks now. set limits and allow for all manufactors to provide a product

uh oh dave...you are going to get put in the corner.....

Fred, RJ could've made the top ten @ the 'Birds, in the 19t truck class,that Joel won.
RJ going to the 'Birds??? This should be more fun than watching............well,Fred knows!

.... Look at the bitching for limiting 13.5 bodies to COT type ..

Just curious.
What was the logic/reasoning behind this, btw?
At the track I raced at, that would mean that everyone would have
change bodies, as 13.5 was the only class... :o

Just curious.
What was the logic/reasoning behind this, btw?
At the track I raced at, that would mean that everyone would have
change bodies, as 13.5 was the only class... :o

Hey Dan: If I understand your question about COT body correctly. This was done for two reasons. Bear with me. One of the most dishearting thing I would hear from first time visitors to my track was " man those thing are cool, but there is no way I can drive one of those". What were they watching? Andy Mc, Pete D, Ghoney, Frank Ulbrik and on and on. Tuning up ther 10.5 2 cell cars or before that day their mod cars. I am sure you get the picture. People couldnt tell the diffrence between the classes.

So we went with trucks for the Sportsman class, COT for the 13.5 class because it limits the amout of tuning that can be done to the body making it more of a stock class. Since 13.5 single cell is the closing thing we have to the old stock speed.

Now when someone thinks they want to start racing they see three diffrent steps in the hobby. I hope this has somehow answered your question. Forgive me for rambling.