The season is still a couple months away, but it's never too early to start prepping for the upcoming indoor onroad season. This thread is for roadcourse and offroad discussion. (Touring Car, WGT, 1/12 scale, 1/18 scale offroad, Slash offroad & 2wd truck offroad) Perhaps a Dirt Runners indoor oval thread will be created in the "oval" section, but I thought it would be a good idea to start this thread to help roadcourse racing begin to thrive at DR.

For starters, even though our indoor season is still a ways off, Xtreme RC Addicts, located at 200 Moonachie Ave. in Moonachie, NJ is having roadcourse racing tonight and every Friday night.

Classes:
1/12 4 cell/17.5 and 1S/13.5
Stock 18R
Mod 1/18
1/10 Pan Car & Touring Car

Great track, great people, excellent (friendly) competition. A good time is had by all. Check it out:
http://www.xtremercaddicts.com

Right. So, since one of my comments on the outdoor thread was part of the impetus for starting this thread *I think*, I'll copy it here for further discussion, edited for clarity:

Is there any interest in Mini racing on the DR indoor track? Either offroad (Mini-T, RC18T, Mini Revo, etc), onroad (RC18R, Vendetta rally or TC, etc), or oval (the onroad/rally cars)?
How about a 1/10th pan car class? I'm interested in the World GT type cars, but here's the catch: the World GT class rules are written around 1S lipo/4-cell nimh. All well and good for you guys already running 1/12 pan cars, not so good for us offroad guys with loads of 2S lipos and/or 6C nimhs. If I wanted to race a 'legal' WGT car, I'm essentially out of the game because I would have to buy ALL new electronics and battery to run the low voltage setup(a cheap brushed/nimh setup might be affordable). However, the BMI and CRC cars are set up to accept either the 4C nimh, 1S lipo, OR 2S lipo. The ability to run 2S would be the selling point for me. Based on what I've been reading and watching clips, the increased voltage and weight isn't really an advantage(given proper motor choices based on cell count), but it would lower costs for those who already have the gear. Any thoughts?

Good thinking, Matt. I'll post my responses from the other thread.

Mini offroad ran a few times last winter. Mini oval always ran (if I'm not mistaken). I'd definitely be more interested in running my 18R on the roadcourse rather than the oval, but I don't know i we could get enough cars to do that.

Actually, you can use a regular Novak GTB, Tekin RS, LRP SXX, etc as your ESC in a 1S WGT car. You'd only need to get the 1S lipo and a voltage booster and you'd be good to go.

2S/17.5 would most likely be a lot faster than 1S 13.5, but I was hoping we could do 1S/10.5 if we were to do a WGT class, so that could possibly balance it out and make 2S/17.5 vs. 1S 10.5 in WGT do-able. We'd have to do some testing to see if the square peg will fit into the round hole, and I might be overly optimistic, but I think it just might! I'm glad you brought it up.

As an aside, and I know it's comparing apples to footballs, but with a 2S/17.5 setup in my TC5 last year I was running nearly identical laptimes and total laps as I was in 1/12 with a 4 cell/17.5 setup. The caviat is that a 2S 1/10 pan car will be a lot lighter than a 4wd TC running 2S and therefore, much faster. 1S/13.5 in 1/12 seems to be running almost the same as 4 cell/17.5 did, so I would say that in a 1/10 pan car running 1S on the roadcourse, we'd have to run a 10.5 to be competitive with a 2S pan car running a 17.5. It's really just a semi-educated guess on my part, and certainly open to other ideas. I'll have a bit better idea after running my 12R5 on 1S tonight down at Xtreme.

I was talking with Brian Jr. last night while we were racing at Xtreme and he's really interested in 1/10 pan roadcourse, WGT, or whatever we want to call it since it's looking like it will be a hybrid class, which is perfect. He too has a stack of 2S lipos, so I think this might be a good way to go. It would be a great way to encourage more outdoor offroad drivers to come indoors and run a roadcourse class since they'd already have the battery, ESC, etc. They'd only need a 17.5 motor and the car.

I'll be getting my 10R5 soon, so I'll do some testing down at Xtreme with a 10.5 and a 13.5 and see how it goes.

In the meantime, I would say to anyone who is interested in running this class; Go ahead and get your car, motor and whatever else you need. We'll make this class happen. And, you can run it down at Xtreme before the DR indoor season starts.

For now, I would propose the rules as this: 1/10 pan car designed for roadcourse racing. 2S lipo, 6 cell pack/17.5 or 1S lipo 10.5 or 4 cell 13.5. (that way we can even get the guys who still have 4 cell packs to run)
Any brand and any compound 1/10 foam tires. Not sure if we should limit the bodies to the 3 that are available from Pro-Line. (I'm doing the Mulsanne body)

Another roadcourse class I'd love to see happen at DR is a stock (motor & ESC) 18R class. We run them down at Xtreme and they are an absolute blast. Even in stock configuration, they can be set up to handle extremely well and they're quite snappy and quick for stockers. Brian Jr. drove mine for the first time last night and seemed to really like it.

Racing at Xtreme last night was loads of fun as always. Small-ish turnout, but not bad for mid-summer carpet racing. There were 10 1/12 cars and 12 18Rs. It was my first time running 1S/13.5 in my 12R5. My car setup was great, but I was searching for the gearing all night and after not having driven a carpet car since Feb, I was VERY rusty and qualified 3rd overall. I got close on the gearing in time for the A-main, and started to find my groove, but had 2 small bobbles and I finished 3rd. 18R was different story. The car was on rails right from the start and my gearing was just right for the new, smaller, more technical, but free-flowing track layout. I TQ'd and took the A-main win by about 1 second over Chris, the track owner. It was a great race and another great night at Xtreme. :thumbsup:

I used to run well I should say tried to run a carpet car. I think I had rc 10 something not sure but I had no idea what I was doing. This was back in the day way back. Maybe I should give it a try. Winter is a long time to not run a car!

Any idea as to what kind or kit to get for my first time? Something simple to drive and not hard to set up.

I used to run well I should say tried to run a carpet car. I think I had rc 10 something not sure but I had no idea what I was doing. This was back in the day way back. Maybe I should give it a try. Winter is a long time to not run a car!

Any idea as to what kind or kit to get for my first time? Something simple to drive and not hard to set up.


Cool, Randy. I'm glad to hear that you're interested in the indoor season, too. If you want something simple, you can't beat a pan car (either 1/10 or 1/12)
Another good and inexpensive option would be an 18R. Those things are a blast to drive and really work great on the carpet with minimal parts investment and minimal tuning. Just like last year, if anyone needs tires trued or help with setup, I'm easy to find on raceday. :)

I'll bring my 12R5 and 18R on Sunday so you guys can check 'em out.

Here are the 2 new classes that I'm proposing along with a basic rules package. I'll provide printed copies to Charlie, Nick & Wayne on Sunday for their perusal and approval.

1/10 Pan Car Road Course (World GT Hybrid)

Chassis: Any 1/10 pan car chassis (10”/255mm wheelbase, 200mm body width) designed for road course racing.

Motor & Battery Combos:
Option 1: 6 cell sub-C pack OR 2S lipo with 17.5 brushless motor or 27 turn brushed motor
Option 2: 4 cell sub-C pack with 13.5 brushless motor
Option 3: 1S Lipo with 10.5 brushless motor or 19 turn brushed motor.

Radio: Any radio may be used.

ESC: Any electronic speed control that does not cause radio interference.

Tires: Any 1/10 foam tires designed specifically for a 1/10 scale pan car.

Body: Proline (Protoform) C6-R Corvette, Mulsanne or Sophia.



Stock 18R Road Course

Chassis: Stock Team Associated 18R chassis. No Exotec chassis allowed.

Radio: Any radio may be used.

Stock Motor & ESC (Heatsinks on the motor and ESC are legal)

Battery: Any 6 cell pack or 2S lipo that is legal per Dirt Runners rules, designed specifically for 1/18 scale racing.

Suspension: The car must retain the original wheelbase, track width and stock appearance. Threaded turnbuckles and threaded body shocks are legal. Car must use stock arms, caster blocks and steering bocks. Alloy parts are prohibited.

Tires: Associated 18R foam tires or kit rubber tires. Foam tires can be trued to any diameter that the driver wishes.

Body: All of the Stock 18R bodies are legal, as well as the Exotec body.

Proposed rules look good!:thumbsup:

I'm doing a little more research at the moment and will hopefully be chassis shopping in a month or so. I've got some poking around to do and figure out the strengths and weaknesses of the various chassis.

Proposed rules look good!:thumbsup:

I'm doing a little more research at the moment and will hopefully be chassis shopping in a month or so. I've got some poking around to do and figure out the strengths and weaknesses of the various chassis.

Thanks, Matt. With the advent of 1S lipo, this winter season should be really good despite the poor economy. And I have a good feeling that the 1/10 pan car class will thrive, partially due to all the motor and battery combos that should work well together.

Heck, if we can get enough guys interested in the 1/10 class who are willing to make the trip in early November, we might even be able to run them on the "big track" up at Marshall's, too.

Another thing I can say about 1S after running it in my 1/12 Friday night, tire wear is virtually nil and the chance of chunking rears is much less as well. With 4-cell sub-C I'd pull the car off after a run and the inside of the body would be coated with foam. I think I counted about 6 specs of foam after my 1S runs on Friday night. ;)

I was looking at the rules for indoor and was wondering if I could use any of my Tamiya 1/10 on road cars? I have a few of them to pick from. I guess it would fall under the touring car modified.

I was looking at the rules for indoor and was wondering if I could use any of my Tamiya 1/10 on road cars? I have a few of them to pick from. I guess it would fall under the touring car modified.

Touring mod and Touring 19T are/were oval classes. Mod never ran last year and 19T only ran once or twice. Road Course Touring class ran all last season. 2S lipo or 6 cell pack with a stock motor (17.5 brushless or 27T brushed)

This is what I have not sure how good it would do or if I can use it. Tell me what you think.

This is what I have not sure how good it would do or if I can use it. Tell me what you think.

Yup, you could use that car in the touring class, assuming there will be a touring car class this winter. Does it have 12mm hexes for the wheels? Cause you're going to need to put foam tires on it to run well on the carpet. If you're interested, I have 2 pairs of Jaco TC foams in double pink compound that I trued up but never used. I'll bring them on Sunday.

A few other legal bodies to add to the list for 1/10 pan car class:

McAllister Ferraro 599 Fiorano (#257)
Parma DB-9 (#10225)
PTI Nissan R-390 (#920001)

Maybe with people reading this they might bring there touring cars out and we will have enough to run. But bring the foams with you cause I was on tower looking for some.

Maybe with people reading this they might bring there touring cars out and we will have enough to run. But bring the foams with you cause I was on tower looking for some.

Yeah, there will probably be enough TCs... And if not, we can always combine the TCs with the pan cars 'til each have enough for their own class.

I'll bring a bunch of TC foams, my 1/12 car, my 18R, etc etc.

This is a work out going back and forth between all three forums. LOL

Just thought I'd post this handy-dandy link for those of you who are new to foam tire carpet racing. http://www.gearchart.com

Since foam tires wear and are trued (cut) to different diameters, that changes your "rollout". Unlike offroad racing, you gear your car by rollout rather than FDR (Final Drive Ratio)

And for those of you who want to know how to calculate rollout by hand, the formula is:
Spur divided by pinion multiplied by internal ratio
Then you take the tire diameter and multiply by pi (3.14) which gives you the circumference of the tire.
You then take the circumference and divide it by your Spur/Pinion x internal ratio and that number is your rollout.

I'll use my TC5 with a 17.5 motor (last year) as an example:
88 Spur/50 pinion x 2.0 internal ratio = 3.52
56mm tire diameter x 3.14 = 175.84mm circumference
175.84/3.52 = 49.95mm rollout

In the case of a pan car (direct drive, no tranny/internal) the formula is the same except you don't use an internal ratio.

I'll use my 12R5 with a 17.5 motor (last year) as an example
76T Spur divided by 47T pinion = 1.61
44mm tire diameter x 3.14 = 138.16
138.16/1.61 = 85.81mm rollout.

It may seem a little intimidating at first, but doesn't take long at all to master. Once you find the right rollout for a given motor and a given track, you simply gear up as your tires wear in order to maintain the same rollout.

Hope this helps! :) Any questions, just ask. :wave:

my head is spinning. but i got it. LOL

my head is spinning. but i got it. LOL

It's not that bad. Well, at first it is, but it'll become second nature. ;) And I just gave away 2 speed secrets; 1 for TC and 1 for 1/12. If you're planning to run a Novak 17.5 and a 2S lipo in your TC, a rollout right around 50mm will at least get you real close to where you need to be.

And a rollout in the neighborhood of 85mm will get you close in the 1/12 class if you run a Novak 17.5 and 4-cell.

Anyone pick up an 18R yet?

Almost forgot to mention it. Mark told me yesterday at the track that he just picked up a Mulsanne body for his 1/10 car, so that makes 4 drivers so far for the World GT Hybrid class.

Almost forgot to mention it. Mark told me yesterday at the track that he just picked up a Mulsanne body for his 1/10 car, so that makes 4 drivers so far for the World GT Hybrid class.

sorry for the stupid question but what is the hybrid class?

See here: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=2943253&postcount=10

Tim, I was looking into an RC18R but I got a chance to drive one of those new mini slashes, and well, it was such a hoot to drive I wound up buying it.:o

Sooooo, I've got to wait and put some money aside before picking up my pan car. It doesn't help that I've had to put brakes and tires on BOTH my car and the wife's this past month, and shocks on mine, too. Who'd have thought that a Mustang doesn't like being used as a pickup:p?

FWIW, I'm looking at the CRC Gen X10 as the leader in my choices right now. I really like the design of it, even though I'm an Associated guy at heart.

sorry for the stupid question but what is the hybrid class?

No such thing as a stupid question, Randy, only the question that goes unasked.

I'm calling it a hybrid because it's loosely based on World GT rules, but we're going to try a lot of different motor/battery combos to open the class up to a lot more people, particularly those who have 2S lipos from their offroad cars and don't want to invest in a 4-cell or 1S lipo setup.

Matt: I'm sure you'd be happy with the GenX10. Callandra makes great cars. I'll be going with the 10R5, for obvious reasons, and because 95% of the parts are interchangeable with my 12R5.

.....and shocks on mine, too. Who'd have thought that a Mustang doesn't like being used as a pickup:p?


It's from haulin' all those pavers a couple months ago. lol

It's from haulin' all those pavers a couple months ago. lol
:o Err, nah, I wouldn't do that, would I?:rolleyes: That's what I get for selling my Ranger, I tell ya. I've got to get myself a little utility trailer...

I'm calling it a hybrid because it's loosely based on World GT rules, but we're going to try a lot of different motor/battery combos to open the class up to a lot more people, particularly those who have 2S lipos from their offroad cars and don't want to invest in a 4-cell or 1S lipo setup.
In other words, cheapskates like me!:p:thumbsup:

It would be great if we can use our battery's that we have then to buy new ones. Sounds good to me.

In other words, cheapskates like me!:p:thumbsup:

Nothing wrong with a little frugality, especially in this economy. :)

Randy: Just make sure you pick a car that will accomodate a 2S lipo/6 cell pack. The Associated 10R5 for instance, does not, whereas the CRC GenX10, Darkside car and a few others do. That is, unless you were talking about your Tamiya car. In which case, since a 6 cell pack fits, most 2S lipos should fit also.

Here are the 2 new classes that I'm proposing along with a basic rules package. I'll provide printed copies to Charlie, Nick & Wayne on Sunday for their perusal and approval.

1/10 Pan Car Road Course (World GT Hybrid)

Chassis: Any 1/10 pan car chassis (10”/255mm wheelbase, 200mm body width) designed for road course racing.

Motor & Battery Combos:
Option 1: 6 cell sub-C pack OR 2S lipo with 17.5 brushless motor or 27 turn brushed motor
Option 2: 4 cell sub-C pack with 13.5 brushless motor
Option 3: 1S Lipo with 10.5 brushless motor or 19 turn brushed motor.

Radio: Any radio may be used.

ESC: Any electronic speed control that does not cause radio interference.

Tires: Any 1/10 foam tires designed specifically for a 1/10 scale pan car.

Body: Proline (Protoform) C6-R Corvette, Mulsanne or Sophia.


Tim,

Have you thought about openning up the body rules to any 200mm body, that way poeple could run all the Nitro touring car bodies that are available as well?

Here are some rules that have been used at some big races:
Rules (http://www.worldgtrc.com/)
The IIC race used handout spec jaco lilac tires.

From what I have been reading, it sounds like the 1S battery approach doesnt work that well for the 1/10 cars, they simply don't have enough weight for bias. If going with a LiPo, it sounds like most are opting for a Saddle-Style LiPo battery (2S), and mounting it like a brick (for the different dimensions than the std 2S packs) otherwise they are adding a ton of weight.

Perhaps you also want to consider using a control tire to keep costs down, so racers dont have to rely on tire compound changes to fix handling (a costly change). I have heard of clubs mandating the use of Jaco Lilac-compound Tires. But for our level of racing it probably doesnt matter too much. JAC2100 and JAC2110 (stormer has them - out of stock though), cheap as well at under $30 a set.
Tires (http://www.stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/searchpn.pl?dterm=jaco+spec&dterm3=&pn=&mterm=&oterm=&uterm=&sthumb=on&smode=0)

Tim,

Have you thought about openning up the body rules to any 200mm body, that way poeple could run all the Nitro touring car bodies that are available as well?

Here are some rules that have been used at some big races:
Rules (http://www.worldgtrc.com/)
The IIC race used handout spec jaco lilac tires.

From what I have been reading, it sounds like the 1S battery approach doesnt work that well for the 1/10 cars, they simply don't have enough weight for bias. If going with a LiPo, it sounds like most are opting for a Saddle-Style LiPo battery (2S), and mounting it like a brick (for the different dimensions than the std 2S packs) otherwise they are adding a ton of weight.

Perhaps you also want to consider using a control tire to keep costs down, so racers dont have to rely on tire compound changes to fix handling (a costly change). I have heard of clubs mandating the use of Jaco Lilac-compound Tires. But for our level of racing it probably doesnt matter too much. JAC2100 and JAC2110 (stormer has them - out of stock though), cheap as well at under $30 a set.
Tires (http://www.stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/searchpn.pl?dterm=jaco+spec&dterm3=&pn=&mterm=&oterm=&uterm=&sthumb=on&smode=0)

Thanks for the good ideas, Nick. Hopefully you're interested in running the class, too. I've been wanting to race with you while driving something other than Charlie's Slash those few times last Winter. ;)

I'm all for opening it up to any 200mm body. I wouldn't want the class to be too restrictive.

I've read on RC Tech how a lot of tracks are running the spec tires. My only concern is that they might not have enough grip on our track. And since I'm hoping that we can mix the 3 different motor/battery combos, and 1S cars will be on the light-side, I was hoping to run a fairly soft/grippy tire package. I'll most likely experiment with the 2S configuration that you mentioned, but I'm hoping to run 1S/10.5, if for no other reason than I'm planning to run a 10.5 in 2wd buggy next year. lol

I was amazed how well 1S worked in my 1/12 car last Friday night. The only thing I changed from last year's 4 cell set-up was that I went one softer on the center spring. I thought the car was going to be "bad-loose", but, if anything, it actually felt more grippy and planted than it did last year on 4 cells. I'm planning on going one stiffer on the side springs on Friday night because, like you said has been the case with the 1/10 cars on 1S, even the 1/12 car didn't have enough side-to-side bias due to the lower weight and it was a bit lazy in transitions.

I'm probably in the minority, but I kinda like having to/being able to add weight in strategic spots on the chassis rather than going to a bigger battery. And if it's still too light, I'll just break down and buy the aluminum weight from Stormer or the place (can't remember the name right now) that I got my battery tray weight from last year for my TC5 in order to make weight at Marshall's. (I'll show you my B4 on Sunday. You'll get a good laugh when you see all the lead in the chassis) lol

Do the motor/battery combos I've listed on page 1 sound work-able to you? I still plan to do a good amount of testing down at Xtreme to make sure they're all at least close, but I wanted to get the board's approval before I go ahead and start buying batteries and motors. (The car is already on its way)

I just did a little quick math and came up with these unloaded RPM figures:

10.5/1S - (4200Kv x 4.2V) = 17,640
13.5/4-cell - (3300Kv x approximately 6.4V) = approximately 21,120
17.5/2S - (2200Kv x 8.4V) = 18,480

I used fully charged voltages for the calculations, but I'm not sure if that's the best way to go. If I'm not too far off, it looks like 13.5 on 4 cells would have a noticable advantage, at least at the beginning, but the steeper drop off of sub-C cells would possibly make up for it over the course of a 6 minute run. I'd have to yield to those who have more experience than me in that department (Mark, Nick, Wayne, et al)

I just did a little quick math and came up with these unloaded RPM figures:

10.5/1S - (4200Kv x 4.2V) = 17,640
13.5/4-cell - (3300Kv x approximately 6.4V) = approximately 21,120
17.5/2S - (2200Kv x 8.4V) = 18,480

I used fully charged voltages for the calculations, but I'm not sure if that's the best way to go. If I'm not too far off, it looks like 13.5 on 4 cells would have a noticable advantage, at least at the beginning, but the steeper drop off of sub-C cells would possibly make up for it over the course of a 6 minute run. I'd have to yield to those who have more experience than me in that department (Mark, Nick, Wayne, et al)

You know better them me but isn't a 2s 7.4v? That's is what my Lipo says anyway.

You know better them me but isn't a 2s 7.4v? That's is what my Lipo says anyway.

7.4 is the nominal voltage. 8.4 is the fully charged voltage. And in a 1S pack, 3.7 is nominal, 4.2 is fully charged.

It gets a little hazy with sub-C cells though. They're 1.2V/cell, so a 4 cell pack is 4.8V nominal. When fully charged, I had one pack last year that would peak at right around 6.65V, another that would peak at 6.50V and another that never made it past 6.30V, etc etc

For our purposes of trying to allow 3 different motor/battery combos in a "somewhat spec" class, the 4 cell/13.5 option might be a bit faster overall, but I'm not sure if anyone will even run that option now that the matchers aren't matching as much as they used to and lipo is just flat out easier to deal with.

When I do my testing, I'll probably only test 1S/10.5 and 2S/17.5 in my 10R5, so hopefully someone else can test the 4 cell/13.5 option. Of course, when the first week in November rolls around and roadcourse practice for Marshall's big "Open House" 2-day race opens up, I'll be trying 2S/10.5 just to get a feel for the insane speed. lol :tongue: We ran 2S/13.5 in TC there last year and they were pretty darn fast, I can only imagine how fast a much lighter pan car with a 10.5 on 2S will be.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just excited about the new class. :thumbsup:

The numbers look pretty decently matched to me between the 1S and 2S options. At least it's close enough that the 2S won't run away on the straights, and the added weight will be a disadvantage in the corners I imagine, further evening it out.

FWIW, I was planning on getting the spec tires when I start buying gear, just because I don't know where else to start and I believe they're intended to keep costs down and wear like iron. I'm probably handicapping myself from the start, but I have no interest in tire truers, etc unless they're absolutely needed. (guess i could borrow my father's lathe if needed;))

I have so much to learn about electric. To me nitro is easy but love the clean and power of electric.

The numbers look pretty decently matched to me between the 1S and 2S options. At least it's close enough that the 2S won't run away on the straights, and the added weight will be a disadvantage in the corners I imagine, further evening it out.

FWIW, I was planning on getting the spec tires when I start buying gear, just because I don't know where else to start and I believe they're intended to keep costs down and wear like iron. I'm probably handicapping myself from the start, but I have no interest in tire truers, etc unless they're absolutely needed. (guess i could borrow my father's lathe if needed;))

I agree on the 1S and 2S options. I've been looking around but I can't find the shore rating for the spec lilacs. If it's the same shore rating as their 1/12 lilac fronts and their lilac TC tires, it's around 35/37. If that's the case, the fronts would probably work well on our track, and the rears might work for the heavier 2S and 4 cell cars, but probably not for the 1S cars. The lilacs might work on 1S cars at Marshall's, but their track has noticably more grip than ours. The nice thing about Xtreme is that I've found the grip there to be very similar to the grip on our track, so that'll be a good place to test when I have my car ready in about 2 weeks.

I'll most likely start out with Jaco pink on all 4 corners, but I'd also like to try out the spec lilacs and perhaps purple fronts with the pink rears. Since I'm kinda the one starting the class, I have no problem with being the guinea pig, spending a few extra bucks and passing on what works and what doesn't to anyone else who is interested in the class. I'll even give my set-up, rollout, etc to anyone who wants it since we're all there to have fun and not to keep "speed secrets" from each other. :)

Unfortunately, truing tires is pretty much a necessity if you want to maximize performance. I'll be getting a new truer this year (Still hating myself for selling the truer I had last year) and, like last year, I'll offer to true tires for anyone as long as they show up early enough on race day. My racedays will be a lot less hectic now that I won't have any sub-C packs that need to be babysat. lol

I have so much to learn about electric. To me nitro is easy but love the clean and power of electric.

Believe me, so do I. That's why I always try to soak up as much info from Mark when he's talking about the more "hardcore" electric issues.

I'm just waiting for him to weigh in on what car he's gonna run and what power combo he's thinking of. I know he got the Mulsanne body, but beyond that, I have no idea.

Speaking of bodies, it's looking like the Mulsanne might be the best choice for the lighter 1S cars on tight tracks with low-medium grip, as I've read that it gives excellent rear downforce. I'm also interested in the Proline Corvette C6-R and the Parma DB-9, as they look like better options for bigger/higher speed/higher grip tracks like Marshall's, in case we ever get enough drivers to run the class there, too.

If any of this info has your heads spinning, take heart, it's really not that difficult or involved, especially on our level of racing. In the end, a great setup will help, but it's still all about clean, smooth driving.

By the way, for anyone interested in fielding an 18R, Duratrax has a nice little 2S 1800 mAh hardcase lipo (DTXC1860) that will fit the car with the use of 2 foam battery spacers that come with the B4/T4 (Associated part# 9238) You can use the spacers as a tuning aid and position the battery front, rear or middle depending on which end of the car needs more grip. I'm sure there are packs that fit the 18R's battery tray perfectly, but I like the ability to position the battery differently depending on track conditions.

The Duratrax pack uses 3.5mm bullets for the "+" and "-" and a standard 2mm bullet for the balancing port.

Thanks for the good ideas, Nick. Hopefully you're interested in running the class, too. I've been wanting to race with you while driving something other than Charlie's Slash those few times last Winter. ;)


I can't lie Tim, I am very interested in running the class, it looks like it would be a blast and I think if done right, it could be cheap too (after you buy the car etc). I would have still been running the touring cars on the road course if it hadnt died off (its been on and off several times since we started doing a road course).


I've read on RC Tech how a lot of tracks are running the spec tires. My only concern is that they might not have enough grip on our track. And since I'm hoping that we can mix the 3 different motor/battery combos, and 1S cars will be on the light-side, I was hoping to run a fairly soft/grippy tire package. I'll most likely experiment with the 2S configuration that you mentioned, but I'm hoping to run 1S/10.5, if for no other reason than I'm planning to run a 10.5 in 2wd buggy next year. lol


Time will tell on the tires. Many racers at the IIC race had the same concern (a temporary track setup in a hotel in Vegas) but found the lilacs to be more than enough traction, with extremely minimal wear. So not only are the spec tires cheaper up front, they also are replaced less often, really a hard combo to beat.

From what I have seen lately with our club, it seems like many racers want close competitve racing, with limited choice as to what to run, e.g. Rustler and SLASH. They are both cheap, and people feel like their equipment isnt holding them back, most important thing being cheap with this economy. :)


I was amazed how well 1S worked in my 1/12 car last Friday night. The only thing I changed from last year's 4 cell set-up was that I went one softer on the center spring. I thought the car was going to be "bad-loose", but, if anything, it actually felt more grippy and planted than it did last year on 4 cells. I'm planning on going one stiffer on the side springs on Friday night because, like you said has been the case with the 1/10 cars on 1S, even the 1/12 car didn't have enough side-to-side bias due to the lower weight and it was a bit lazy in transitions.

I'm probably in the minority, but I kinda like having to/being able to add weight in strategic spots on the chassis rather than going to a bigger battery. And if it's still too light, I'll just break down and buy the aluminum weight from Stormer or the place (can't remember the name right now) that I got my battery tray weight from last year for my TC5 in order to make weight at Marshall's. (I'll show you my B4 on Sunday. You'll get a good laugh when you see all the lead in the chassis) lol

Do the motor/battery combos I've listed on page 1 sound work-able to you? I still plan to do a good amount of testing down at Xtreme to make sure they're all at least close, but I wanted to get the board's approval before I go ahead and start buying batteries and motors. (The car is already on its way)


I agree, it is excellnt to be able to move weights around the car to where you want, makes your weight transfers much more easily tuned and if done right makes the car difficult to beat. My concern though is adding more complexity to the car setup. It seems like the Keep it Simple philosophy has been working really well for the newer classes we have been growing this season.

I think the difficult thing to look at would be the weights of the different configurations of the cars, should a 1S-10.5 car run at the same weight as a 2S-17.5? I don't know, and there is no tech at Dirt Runners, so it's not really something that will be policed.

Maybe it makes sense to limit the configurations? Maybe not. Perhaps we should be looking at 6-cell/2S/17.5 and a 1S/10.5, and not worry about the 4-cell? Hard to say without some data from with track time. It is nice to have the option to run just about any battery configuration, as many have said, they're not looking to buy new batteries. It's a hard call; if 1 configuration winds up working better than the others, then people will feel that they need to buy new equipment to stay competitive, which usually isn't the case, but it might seem that way to some racers. This is why I love spec racing :) Run this battery and motor and have done with it.

Also, I think looking at RPM alone won't be a good indicator of comparison for a tiny track like our indoor road coures, as most of the time is gained and lost entering and exiting the corners. Perhaps we need to do some testing on the indoor practice day to see what kind of differences we are seeing in the battery/motor configurations.

Really what it comes down to is how much do you want to try and grow the class, and how much potential is there to really do that? Many of our indoor racers only race indoors, and many outdoor racers only race outdoors. Of the indoor racers, most race the oval with little interest in the road course. If we are only going to have a heat or so of racers, it might make sense to limit the battery/motor combos to those that the class formers are looking to use, if no one is going to run 4-cell, then don't include it.

FWIW, I was planning on getting the spec tires when I start buying gear, just because I don't know where else to start and I believe they're intended to keep costs down and wear like iron. I'm probably handicapping myself from the start, but I have no interest in tire truers, etc unless they're absolutely needed. (guess i could borrow my father's lathe if needed;))

I usually have my tire truer with me at the track if you need to borrow it on a raceday, you just need to ask.

I wouldnt be too concerned about the tires, I think you will be fine with the spec tires - if I wind up getting one, I will go the spec tire route myself as well. If you really want to cover all your bases without a spec tire rule, also pick up a set of dbl-pinks; just be prepared for the pinks to wear a lot quicker than the spec tires.

I can't lie Tim, I am very interested in running the class, it looks like it would be a blast and I think if done right, it could be cheap too (after you buy the car etc). I would have still been running the touring cars on the road course if it hadnt died off (its been on and off several times since we started doing a road course).

That's great to hear, Nick!

Time will tell on the tires. Many racers at the IIC race had the same concern (a temporary track setup in a hotel in Vegas) but found the lilacs to be more than enough traction, with extremely minimal wear. So not only are the spec tires cheaper up front, they also are replaced less often, really a hard combo to beat.

Yeah, I was reading on the AE board comments from Blackstock, Stellflue & Sean Cochran on how their cars performed at IIC last year on the spec lilacs. They were saying that they were a little on the loose side til the grip came up towards the end of the event. Do you happen to know the shore ratings on the spec lilacs? I just want everyone to have good grip overall. Since they're cheap, I'm gonna cross my fingers and give the lilacs a shot. It would be great if they work on our track. Definitely would give a big boost to the class to have a spec tire while not sacrificing grip and causing a demolition derby. lol

And even if we don't spec the tires, this is where a 1S setup might be good because tire wear seems to be extremely minimal and 1S packs are cheap.

From what I have seen lately with our club, it seems like many racers want close competitve racing, with limited choice as to what to run, e.g. Rustler and SLASH. They are both cheap, and people feel like their equipment isnt holding them back, most important thing being cheap with this economy. :)

I agree, it is excellnt to be able to move weights around the car to where you want, makes your weight transfers much more easily tuned and if done right makes the car difficult to beat. My concern though is adding more complexity to the car setup. It seems like the Keep it Simple philosophy has been working really well for the newer classes we have been growing this season.

I think the difficult thing to look at would be the weights of the different configurations of the cars, should a 1S-10.5 car run at the same weight as a 2S-17.5? I don't know, and there is no tech at Dirt Runners, so it's not really something that will be policed.

Maybe it makes sense to limit the configurations? Maybe not. Perhaps we should be looking at 6-cell/2S/17.5 and a 1S/10.5, and not worry about the 4-cell? Hard to say without some data from with track time. It is nice to have the option to run just about any battery configuration, as many have said, they're not looking to buy new batteries. It's a hard call; if 1 configuration winds up working better than the others, then people will feel that they need to buy new equipment to stay competitive, which usually isn't the case, but it might seem that way to some racers. This is why I love spec racing :) Run this battery and motor and have done with it..

Yes, you're definitely right in that a lot of people seem to like the spec or "spec-ish" classes, if you will. You also bring up a good point about the different weights of the 2 different configurations and, I'm also starting to think that maybe we should eliminate the 13.5/4 cell combo as an option, to simplify things a bit.

I know what you mean about the "racer's ego", as I call it. When someone gets beat by a different "flux capacitor", they think they need to get that same flux capacitor or a better one rather than improving their setup and driving. Case in point; Marshall's TC roadcourse class last year. We all know 17.5 is VERY close to a 27T brushed, but when me and a few other 17.5 drivers started winning, the 27T guys insisted that they had to run 19T to compete with us 17.5 guys. So naturally, the 19T guys started blowing us away and we had to buy 13.5 motors to even be close to being fair.

Also, I think looking at RPM alone won't be a good indicator of comparison for a tiny track like our indoor road coures, as most of the time is gained and lost entering and exiting the corners. Perhaps we need to do some testing on the indoor practice day to see what kind of differences we are seeing in the battery/motor configurations.

Really what it comes down to is how much do you want to try and grow the class, and how much potential is there to really do that? Many of our indoor racers only race indoors, and many outdoor racers only race outdoors. Of the indoor racers, most race the oval with little interest in the road course. If we are only going to have a heat or so of racers, it might make sense to limit the battery/motor combos to those that the class formers are looking to use, if no one is going to run 4-cell, then don't include it.

Yes, that would be great if we can set aside some time during the practice day to get our rollouts and set ups right and see what's what with the 2 different power combos. Yeah, I noticed that not many of the outdoor racers came indoors. That's one of my goals with this class is to get more crossover since a lot of people will have 2S packs, ESCs, etc that will work both indoor and outdoor. And hopefully we can get a few more of the oval guys to want to make right turns after they see how cool the World GT Hybrid class is. Mark Stern makes one, hopefully more will follow.

I'm also hopeful that 1/12 roadcourse will get big again. Before I left last year, it seemed like we were getting 6 or 7 cars each time.

Speaking of the practice day, and I certainly don't want to speak out of turn, but would it be possible to structure/schedule it so we can run oval for 2 hours, roadcourse for 2 hours and then offroad for 2 hours? That way we won't have Slashes car-crushing little 1/12 cars and we won't have big 'ole touring cars running over poor little mini-Ts. Just a thought.

Not to further clutter things, but I wanted to throw this out there while we're in the "idea exchange" phase for the new class. What if we spec lilacs for the 2S cars, since they'll almost certainly work great with the extra weight of a 2S pack, and spec another compound for the 1S cars since they'll most likely need a slightly softer compound to find grip and the 1S cars won't wear tires as fast as 2S cars. Either that, or just bring the 1S cars' weight up and we all run lilacs (assuming that they do end up working well on our track) Just for kicks, I weighed 3 different lipo packs that I have on hand:

SMC 1S 4900 40C = 5 oz.
Trinity IP 2S 3800 35C = 8.25 oz.
Reedy 2S 5000 35C = 10.15 oz.

In the end, I think bringing the 1S cars up 3-4 oz. and spec'ing the tires might be the best solution, but, as Nick says, we don't tech, so we'd have to do it on the honor system.

Actually, if the 1S cars run the Manutech lipo weight plate from Stormer (part # MAN133101) it instantly adds 3.52 oz the "easy and fair way" and then maybe we could maybe allow the 1S driver to add just 2 more 1/4 oz. squares of lead to the car wherever he or she chooses. This way we could just look at each of the 1S cars and see the weight plate and 2 squares rather than having to weigh the cars.

So that way, if Nick blows me away in the first race, I won't have any temptation to "lose" an ounce or two before the 2nd race. :tongue:

On a side note, this is all very interesting to me. It's my first time spearheading a new class and I can't wait to start testing! :)

Not to further clutter things, but I wanted to throw this out there while we're in the "idea exchange" phase for the new class. What if we spec lilacs for the 2S cars, since they'll almost certainly work great with the extra weight of a 2S pack, and spec another compound for the 1S cars since they'll most likely need a slightly softer compound to find grip and the 1S cars won't wear tires as fast as 2S cars. Either that, or just bring the 1S cars' weight up and we all run lilacs (assuming that they do end up working well on our track) Just for kicks, I weighed 3 different lipo packs that I have on hand:

SMC 1S 4900 40C = 5 oz.
Trinity IP 2S 3800 35C = 8.25 oz.
Reedy 2S 5000 35C = 10.15 oz.

In the end, I think bringing the 1S cars up 3-4 oz. and spec'ing the tires might be the best solution, but, as Nick says, we don't tech, so we'd have to do it on the honor system.

Actually, if the 1S cars run the Manutech lipo weight plate from Stormer (part # MAN133101) it instantly adds 3.52 oz the "easy and fair way" and then maybe we could maybe allow the 1S driver to add just 2 more 1/4 oz. squares of lead to the car wherever he or she chooses. This way we could just look at each of the 1S cars and see the weight plate and 2 squares rather than having to weigh the cars.

So that way, if Nick blows me away in the first race, I won't have any temptation to "lose" an ounce or two before the 2nd race. :tongue:

On a side note, this is all very interesting to me. It's my first time spearheading a new class and I can't wait to start testing! :)

Tim, I agree that keeping the rules simple would be the preferred method, I'm not all that crazy about having different spec tires for different battery configurations, way too complicated I think.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the weight suggestion, keeping the weights comparable will really help a lot, and even if it isn't teched, it will pretty much be mandatory to get the car to run well with the 1S LiPo and spec tires (it techs itself :) ).

Speaking of the practice day, and I certainly don't want to speak out of turn, but would it be possible to structure/schedule it so we can run oval for 2 hours, roadcourse for 2 hours and then offroad for 2 hours? That way we won't have Slashes car-crushing little 1/12 cars and we won't have big 'ole touring cars running over poor little mini-Ts. Just a thought.


I think that wouldnt be a problem, Tim. We have done it in the past, we can just post a schedule up by the drivers stand. I do think we will need to favor the oval racers more than the road course, based on number of entries we usually get (we can decide that on the practice day). Maybe doing it in 30 Road, 45 Oval - something like that - 2 hours might be too much time for people to wait. I think in the past we swapped about every 30mins or so.

That all sounds good to me. :thumbsup: I'll put the lipo plate and the spec lilacs on backorder.

Just ordered my RC18R :)

Found them oddly on Amazon thru a seller. $124 for the Mitsibushi. I had $40 in gift cards so Just $94 for me shipped :) I'll get a clear lexan Niteline body and paint it up nice.

They also have the Kamino for $146 or direct from My Atomic.

Unfortunately Stormer no longer stock them at $130 they advertised.