Hey Guys,

After quite a bit of review, we have revised and completed the TOUR rules. The attached document represents hundreds of hours of work, phone calls, research, and coordination with all facets of our industry. I am very proud of what we accomplished over the last 6 months of efforts. I'm also very proud of the fact that we have the full support of the racing community and the R/C Industry manufacturers behind us. My thanks to everyone involved.

Steve

Nevermind I see it now!

I knew someone would try to read it before I figured out how to upload a file!! LOL

Looking at the wiring diagram,it looks like a connection will be need .

Will we be required to wire in the additional connection with a deans connector? Also is the connection from the receiver pack to ESC?


Voltage Limits:

· 1s Li-Po batteries may be charged to a maximum of 4.22v.
· 2s Li-Po batteries may be charged to a maximum of 8.44v.

· Voltage verification do be done as part of standard pre-tech race procedure

· 4.22V per cell is not only the maximum voltage per cell that Li-Po batteries may be charged to......it is the maximum voltage per cell allowed to be presented to the motor drive circuitry for the purpose of powering your car.............period.

· Any attempt to use a secondary source of power (receiver pack battery or booster) to drive the motor at a higher voltage than 4.22V per cell is prohibited. No sneak circuits, no gray areas. This is blatant cheating.

· If any violation of this rule is suspected, the race director has the right to perform an “in-line test” of the car’s operating voltage on the starting grid. A connector wired in the configuration below will detect all voltage influences on the motor drive circuitry.
Attached Thumbnails

steve, thank you for taking your time and getting everything straight before throw rule changes out there. i think EVERYTHING looks great!!:thumbsup:

steve, thank you for taking your time and getting everything straight before throw rule changes out there. i think EVERYTHING looks great!!:thumbsup:

Concur:thumbsup:

very cool!

where is my XXXL shirt at?

Already fixed that. I had Hank change the thread titles to "Rules Discussion 1" and "Rules Discussion 2" so as to avoid confusion. He also made the Official TOUR Rules thread a sticky. I saw that you removed the links to the older outdated versions of the rules on the other 2 threads so we should be good to go!! Thanks.

Steve

i was wondering if someone could send me the tour rules my computer will not let me open from here. gbptaz@yahoo.com thanx JR

Maybe you should post a PDF version also since not everyone has microsoft word. :)

You can download a MS Word viewer here... http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=3657ce88-7cfa-457a-9aec-f4f827f20cac&displaylang=en

Or you can go to openoffice.org and get a few Office suite. It works pretty good and is compatible with MS Office.

Or you could do the PDF thing...LOL

Is there a rule that you have to have fun racing R/C cars? Heck ya there should be!

Updated .Pdf in Post #1 when Steve gets it in his inbox

Thanks Tommy

no problem Al. If you or Steve ever need anything PDF'd let me know.

You know guys....every year it seams like there is a new set of rules..... if you want to run 13.5 1 cell you got to now run a cot body..If you dont like the cot body and you want to run your newly mounted chd body you now have to go buy a 10.5 motor....then everyone holds off buying anything to see what the most popular class will be at thier track...then we complain that no one is showing up .......this is why the numbers dwindle each year at events......a few guy's get together and make a new racing organization and start a new net of rules.....every year since oval transitioned from stock 4 cell to brushless then lipo the rules change..since then we have lost racers...this is why the numbers are down and people are getting out of the hobby

Hi Bud,

Thanks for your input. I could address each of your concerns, line by line, if you'd like, but I'd like to handle this one just a little differently this time, if you are willing to play along.

Let me ask the questions and you provide the recommendations. So I'll start with this:

With the oval world being in disarray due to all of the changes in technology over the past 2 years, we needed to get control and come to a common platform. What would you have done?
If you were to attempt to develop a national structure, who would you have contacted, how would you have approached it?
What specific thing would you do to increase the declining class counts?
Changing the class struture seemed to be a concern of yours. Tell me, what was the common national class struture before the TOUR?I'm not saying we did everything right, by any means. The TOUR is just something that 25-30 experienced racers plus 5 of the largest promoters and 20+ manufacturers agreed on after 6 months and hundreds of hours of phone calls trying to reach a common ground. The questions I layed out for you, above, represent about 2% of the questions that I encountered when I took on this task. I am always interested in other people's answers. What I typically find, though, is that most don't know all of the questions.

I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. Either way, thanks for weighing in.

Steve

******************

I would promote 3 class......
17.5 1 cell Spec (cot/Truck)...I believe these 2 body type can run together
13.5 1 cell Stock ( I believe this would be the most popular)
21.5 2 cell Pro Stock....(this way guys who do the BRL could also attend
these races without buying more equipment)

I wouldnt have felt a need to promote another racing organization...we have ROAR...BRl..
ect.....the avergae racer is going to say.....Well I race according to the BRL rules.....so
I am no longer going to take the trip to the following track because they have adopted the tour rules.....and vice a versa....

The way to address the specific declining class counts....thats the million dollar question...I can only believe that if we continue to support our local tracks...and not change the rules every year to discourage guys from buying new motors and equipment to keep up with the changes I think we can hold on to the racers we have....from thier may be can build on ....but changes rules and classes every year "WILL" dwindle the numbers and scare off anyone thinking of getting into the hobby.....

I know you guys have put in alot of time on this.....just my 2 cents

OK... forget all this TOUR stuff...

I am starting the NEW BRL... The Brushed Racing League. legal motors will be green machine 2's and X-Stars, Cars must have been produced before 1998, Batteries will consist of 2400 NiCd packs for all classes. As for bodies, 90's style bolink bodies only.
These rules come after minutes of hard deliberation and research into what the racer wants.

Screw progress, lets do this old school.

amen brother!

and also I no longer have boxes of brushed motors and brushes or battery's...at the start of every season i tended to give away my old motors....batteries.. and sometimes old tires to the new guys coming into the hobby......that is how I believe you try to build up the numbers......

Hey Bud,

Thanks for taking a stab at this, and for being a good sport. I gotta tell you you did a great job, way better than most. At one point in our discussions, we probably had a similar class structure proposed, but let me tell you why we ended up where we did and address some of your points:

“I wouldnt have felt a need to promote another racing organization...we have ROAR...BRl..
ect.....the avergae racer is going to say.....Well I race according to the BRL rules.....”

Good point. I addressed this in the first line of our rules, “The TOUR is an organization developed by Allan Arrington and Steve Pemberton as our contribution to a hobby and a brand of racing that we both love. It is not a sanctioning body………simply because we have no actual “power” to enforce the rules we set forth.”
This is why I reference ROAR rules everywhere in the document. We simply put a structure to ROAR’s sanctioning. I had several detailed conversations with ROAR about this. They are the ones that felt the need for the TOUR since they had lost touch with oval. As far as the BRL……they are in 100% support of what we have done and are on the advisory board. The BRL had a large hand in the formation of the TOUR and have adopted the TOUR rules.

“17.5 1 cell Spec (cot/Truck)...I believe these 2 body type can run together”

I agree. And some local tracks may need to do this. But a lot of discussion went into the million dollar question of “how to increase new racers”. We found that the common response from spectators who stopped in to watch an event was, “I could never do that”, or “I could never run with those guys”. We found that most spectators were watching the fastest guys on the track (i.e. Pete D’Agnolo running 17.5 2-cell), an obvious mistake since the body was the same as the sportsman running the spec class. So we came to a conclusion that the classes needed to be distinguishable by body (much like the BRL). A “truck” seemed to appeal to an entry level guy and discouraged an experienced racer from dropping down to cherrypick that class. The COT body was requested by the 13.5 1-cell racers by an overwhelming margin to further stabilize the class. [They are primarily "stock" racers and they want everything regulated as much as possible.] The faster classes would run the Nationwide style bodies.

“21.5 2 cell Pro Stock....(this way guys who do the BRL could also attend
these races without buying more equipment)”

This class is dwindling nationally, but the BRL still offers it. The BRL helped to develop the initial rules for this in our first draft which included any ROAR 21.5 motor and any ROAR 3200 mAh lipo. Chuck Kleinhagen, who runs the BRL was very knowledgeable about this class, realizing that “any ROAR 21.5 motor and any ROAR 3200 mAh lipo” had to be the national rules basis, but the BRL had to exercise a promoter’s option to limit the BRL to Novak only motors and SMC3200 28C batteries, due to sponsorship issues and to address the current group of racers in that class. So we concluded that this class had to be defined as a “regional” class since the rules differed so much from region to region. Thus, we limited the TOUR classes to those that I could comfortably say would consistently run under a national rules platform.

I hope that helps you understand our reasoning a little better. Thanks again for your input and ideas. We’ll do our best and fix things as we need to. The goal is to slowly pull us all together so that we all can travel and know that we are all on the same page. It may take some time but I’m sure we can get there.

Steve

Steve.....well put...I agree we have to grow this hobby....I am also sure you are one of the guys that has put in alot of work in an attempt to do so.......Well see what happens
and hope for the best

Guys as a begginer i think the truck body is not good,it looks good and has a nice apeal,but it is not stable with out a wing it took me a lot of crashs to find this out,the cot body is the one to use i find it is stable and dont need a wing,to put beginners in that truck is not good.Sometimes there is not enough beginners to make a class,and i do get nervous about hitting other cars in the advanced classes,the track i run at is trax 70 NJ,they do have a class that allows any pan car with anything in it but you cant go faster then a 7.0 lap time most of the slower guys snd new guys enter this class.Ido think the classes of tour are great and will prepare for two classes.First the beginners class and have the right stuff for any of the other classes in case if i show up at a track and that beginners class cant be filled.I have ran oval now for about 6 weeks and i love it. John Brick NJ

Guys as a begginer i think the truck body is not good,it looks good and has a nice apeal,but it is not stable with out a wing

With the class TOUR has set up, 17.5 1s, there is NO need for a wing. The speed is not near great enough for it to be needed.

matt i ran that truck body with 21.5 2cell and had lots of trouble until i add the wing,just think the cot bodie is more stable

matt you may be right,i was using 21.5 2c which is much faster,think i like the 1c 13.5 class,

matt i ran that truck body with 21.5 2cell and had lots of trouble until i add the wing,just think the cot bodie is more stable

As has been stated the rules are tailored for carpet racing not caps. The trucks work fine on carpet. I doubt there would be much, if any, 17.5 1s racing on caps.

The one thing that you guys have to keep in mind when questioning how well the TOUR will do is the people behind it.

The reason the BRL has taken off is because it is run by a racer. When it started Sonny said here are my rules if you don't like them don't race. Some people hated it, but came around, and now it is by far the best series in the country (has the biggest turn out).

With what Steve and Allan have come up with it wont make everyone happy, but I think everyone will come around like most did with the BRL. It is what it is, and they will make minor tweaks to it as we go along.

The best thing about it is the people that are running it. Allan is in a hot spot for racing with KSG, and Hyperdrive in his back yard. Steve is a racer that will keep the racers in mind.

Like I have said I don't like everything about the rules, but anything to get us all on the same page seems like a good deal to me.

Joel White

matt you may be right,i was using 21.5 2c which is much faster,think i like the 1c 13.5 class,

From someone who has run the 17.5 / 1C truck, 13.5 / 1C & 21.5 / 2C, 17.5 1C is a lot slower than 21.5 / 2C.

At our track 21.5 / 2C was running 4.0 to 4.2 second laps, 13.5 / 1C was around 4.2 to 4.4, 17.5 / 1C was 4.8 to 5.0. Thats a huge difference. I could look at my truck coming out of turn 2, spot a wreck in turn 4 and then go back to my truck before I got to turn 3. LOL! With about 6 - 10 trucks on the track together it would be a blast to run, very stable and manageable. Great decision for beginners and should keep the costs way down to get in. Wish somebody could put together a full package deal with tools, charger, and essentials to get a person started.:thumbsup:

Bill

As a returning racer, last raced about 1990, the Tour makes a lot of sense. I have no interest in running Nimh and brushed motors, not going to do it.

Our local track runs a "stock class" 27T or 17.5 on 4 cell. I brought out a 17.5 1C and was down about 6 to 10 laps, best lap was a 4.0. So I put in a 13.5 and was right in the hunt at a 3.6. Put together another car with a COT body, different motor (13.5), battery and was right at 3.6 with it and within .05 of all the other fast stock cars.

Tried the 21.5 2S in a truck as that is the other big class. Didnt like it as much. Too fast for my driving to be consistent. But we dont run the same batteries or motor as the BRL, so I cant run it there. Tried a 10.5 1 C instead. Was equally as fast as the 21.5 2S and only .1 faster than the 13.5, but has a lot more punch so has the potential to be faster. Will stay with the 10.5.

One guy ran a 7.5 1C against the 17.5 2 S and was a little off the pace (1 lap). This class might be a tougher sell as he didnt feel that the 1C has enough weight to get the car to work right. I think he will get it there as he gets more time in the car.

From what I have seen the class structure does what the Tour set out to do and looks like it will fit in with what the existing classes 21.5 and 17.5 are running.

John

iam looking to get into the 17.5 nastruck,i have read the rules,but is the the tire they are using for the nastruck a rubber tire??? or a foam tire????? i agree a 17.5 1 cell lipo is not blazing fast,but more consistant and iam not sure i know that much to be racing 13.5.to me doesnt matter how fast a car is as long as everyone is running close together in a huge pack thats when its fun

It's a foam tire.

iam looking to get into the 17.5 nastruck,i have read the rules,but is the the tire they are using for the nastruck a rubber tire??? or a foam tire????? i agree a 17.5 1 cell lipo is not blazing fast,but more consistant and iam not sure i know that much to be racing 13.5.to me doesnt matter how fast a car is as long as everyone is running close together in a huge pack thats when its fun

Fronts - http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=1662

Rears - http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=1663

.....

The 13.5 1C class is what you are looking at as your new "stock" class. This is very much the same as stock was back in the day. Driving and setup is key. You driving line really shows on the lap times.

For some tracks though the 17.5 truck class will be the "stock" class due to the size of the track. It is all dependent on your home track.

The 13.5 1C class is what you are looking at as your new "stock" class. This is very much the same as stock was back in the day. Driving and setup is key. You driving line really shows on the lap times.

For some tracks though the 17.5 truck class will be the "stock" class due to the size of the track. It is all dependent on your home track.

Yep, exactly. At Easley, the 13.5/1c is our novice truck class. They run mostly 6.5's-6.8's. We then have 10.5/1c which would be closer to a "stock" class, along with our 21.5/3200 class. Both of those run almost identical times and laps in a 4-minute run. Both of those are running 5.9's-6.2's and averaging 39-40 laps.

Our track is really small. When we proposed making our 13.5 class = TOUR 10.5 rules and our 17.5 class = TOUR COT 13.5 rules (with motor exception), people who don't race there told us we can't do that. It kind of made sense to do it because most of our 13.5 guys would run 10.5 at larger tracks and the drivers from the larger tracks would always run 13.5 at our's. To try and stick with the TOUR, we decided to just use the COT body for both classes and we have our fingers crossed that our car count would not get hurt.

I think you will be fine Frank. I would hope people wouldn't get out of racing because of a body....I also can't see that there would be a large diff between a truck and a COT especially in a 17.5 1C class.

I think you guys are making the right choice!

I don't see people quitting because of a body. It just makes it tougher for outsiders, accustomed to running 10.5, to change over run with the 13.5 guys at our track. This is a learning year for all of us so we will see what happens. If we have to make adjustments for our track, we will.

thats all you can do Frank. start the season and see how things go. i think this year could be pretty good though and cant wait to come to the track and race!

Hi Guys,

I've posted an update to the rules. This update details the COT body and wing rules and specs the World GT tires more clearly. It also includes the TOUR Approved 1-cell Battery list and the updated 7.5 motor list. We should be ready to role!! Thanks.

Steve

Steve... I think there is a typo on the battery list? the TP single cell you listed as a 50c pack... or is that something new we should be expecting?

Steve... I think there is a typo on the battery list? the TP single cell you listed as a 50c pack... or is that something new we should be expecting?

Since both the TP 40c and the TP 50c are listed, I assume it is NOT a typo!:thumbsup:

ahhh missed the top of the list on the other side of the page...

looks good steve. now who is going to be paying the lawyer fees that you hired to right the rules :tongue:

now lets go racing :woohoo:

and for those who still want to complain about the cots' you are:beatdeadhorse:

Sweet!!!!

Bill

awesome! 6 months of not having to buy a battery here i come lol

when will all these batteries be available for the racers anyway?

alan, why are you beating a dead horse in the nuts with a stick????