***@@#*%$!~

unbelievable!:confused::cry:

awesome! 6 months of not having to buy a battery here i come lol


Or at least 2 months. LOL.

Allan or Steve,
So were these December arrival packs submitted to ROAR and knowingly added to the TOUR rules even though the street date is 1/2 way through the carpet season? I'm confused as to why non-available packs would be grandfathered in.
In essence are you saying "protect yourselves and not buy anything until December now?"
Just looking for clarification based upon your TOUR mantra.

dk

Allan or Steve,
So were these December arrival packs submitted to ROAR and knowingly added to the TOUR rules even though the street date is 1/2 way through the carpet season? I'm confused as to why non-available packs would be grandfathered in.
In essence are you saying "protect yourselves and not by anything until December now?"
Just looking for clarification based upon your TOUR mantra.

dk

Same question. I applaud the TOUR for their efforts but with allowing 4 packs in past the approval deadline I dont see how that is beneficial.

Personally I will get whatever I need to race but theres quite a few average joes that wont take much more of the latest/greatest before they simply quit. And unfortunately many have already taken that option.

hmmm same old same old

Same question. I applaud the TOUR for their efforts but with allowing 4 packs in past the approval deadline I dont see how that is beneficial.

Yeah, I don't quite understand the reasoning behind approving packs that are not available yet?

I imagine Allan or Steve will give us a better explanation of why that move was made......

Allan or Steve,
So were these December arrival packs submitted to ROAR and knowingly added to the TOUR rules even though the street date is 1/2 way through the carpet season? I'm confused as to why non-available packs would be grandfathered in.
In essence are you saying "protect yourselves and not by anything until December now?"
Just looking for clarification based upon your TOUR mantra.

dk

I had asked that very same question about the Duo2 7.5 motor on the other thread, and haven't gotten a reply yet. I understood the intent of the TOUR's approval process was so that on October 1st, we could buy what we wanted to race the entire winter, without having to worry about something coming out mid-season. I feel for the companies that couldn't get their product out in time for the start of the season, but once again, are we looking out for the racer's best interest, or the manufacturer's best interest?

I am wondering if TOUR based the list off of items that were submitted by the deadline, regardless of when they would be made available? If the item was submitted in time, then it was considered for the list.

I guess it is possible that a company could submit their product, but an actual launch date of that product be several months down the road?

So here's the next question. Will "team" guys be allowed to run the "legal" packs prior to them being available to the rest of us?

I have to say you guys are really providing fuel for all the doubters on here. I know I'm feeling kind of dumb at the moment for sticking up for this whole TOUR deal.

Ditto
Publicly available on or by 10/01 or wait until spring deadlineSo here's the next question. Will "team" guys be allowed to run the "legal" packs prior to them being available to the rest of us?

I have to say you guys are really providing fuel for all the doubters on here. I know I'm feeling kind of dumb at the moment for sticking up for this whole TOUR deal.

Or at least 2 months. LOL.

DAG NABBIT! lets wait for Steve and Allan to chime in b4 we jump ship on this one guys. deffinatly sucks though

This is another example on having way to many racing organizations......I know alot of work is going into this but this is not going to bring new blood to the hobby.....sorry
but how can you approve stuff for the season that hasn't been released yet....

I'm sure an official statement will come soon. Let's not let this one get away from us just yet. Think positive thoughts.

It would be pointless to allow packs to be introduced mid season when the point of the approval process is to avoid the "battery of the month."

I'm sure there is an explanation. Let's keep it together.

im sure your right....the season hasn't really started yet.....Im sure there will be more rule changes in the next week or so!......maybe trinitys new triple qaud 13.5 being released in may of 2011 will be added

This started out following ROAR's approval process but packs already approved by ROAR (Fantom) are now not legal but packs that haven't made the list are. I would think packs that made ROAR's list should be legal before some of these packs not out till 12/01.

DAG NABBIT! lets wait for Steve and Allan to chime in b4 we jump ship on this one guys. deffinatly sucks though

smartest thing said all night

I beleive the famton battery and the TP are the same, just a label change.

I beleive the famton battery and the TP are the same, just a label change.

Indeed, you are right Larry. That same logic should (and I assume does) apply to motors as well....

If the DUO/DUO2 motor is legal, then it should not matter that it is a Fantom, Express, OHP, Epic or whatever since they are ALL DUO/DUO2 based.

OK Guys I just go in an looks like I started a fire storm. As you know Steve is out of pocket right now. I was trying to answer a question for a racer based off of memory and answered emails I sent out this morning.My real job took me out of town this afternoon before I got answers from some mfg on date the boat comes in.

First one I messed up on was the Thunder Power 50C. It is being built now was run this weekend at Las Vegas. According to Jim at Thunder power they will start shipping on or befor 10/1/09.

#2 Trinity 5200 is listed for sale on their website for mid Oct shippment. Takeing orders now.

All battries were submitted to ROAR for approval. But then they changed there approval process.

The Fantom battery does fall into the approval list since it is a T P pack. Even though they never responded to us and or drivers forgot to do as we ask and encourage their suppliers to give us info.

I will have more in the morning, I appreciate all the support and patience that was show.

· The TOUR will compile a list of “TOUR Approved” batteries over the next 2 weeks and post this list as an update to the TOUR rules. This will be the only batteries legal for use, under TOUR rules, until May of 2010.
· We will compile this list by contacting manufacturers directly, reviewing their specifications and listing their products by part number. This will result in a list of current products and/or products within a few weeks of release and effectively lock the battery list for over 6 months.
· This provides complete inclusion of all manufacturers willing to participate and prevents the “November Surprise” or “January Surprise”. Racers can be assured that this battery list will be frozen until May of 2010.
· All batteries on this list will meet ROAR’s design specifications, which the TOUR is in full agreement with.

I would ask that you, as racers, do 2 things. First, get in touch with your sponsors. If they have a battery that they intend to release for this season, please make sure they contact us. We have a very good idea who the major players are and what they have available, but, to be certain, make sure they contact us. Secondly, we realize some folks have questions, concerns, and ideas that they do not want subject to a public discussion forum. Please feel free to contact Allan or I by email. pemberton@roadrunner.com or allana1989@earthlink.net .

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for all of your thoughts and prayers for me and my family. This has been the most difficult week of my life. If any of you have had to put a parent in a nursing home, or watched your dad die with Alzheimer’s disease, you understand the pain and exhaustion that comes with it.

Two 20 hour days and over 800 miles of traveling can wear you out. But I managed to get the revised rules posted a day early (last night). Just got home this evening and I was delighted to see that after all we’ve tried to do, we are just 2 typo’s and 1 judgement call away from being crucified by you guys.

Did it ever occur to you guys with big keyboard balls, that the folks you are criticizing have feelings and have done 1000 times the work for your benefit than you have ever done for this hobby, you “care so deeply about”.

Did you ever wonder why everyone who tries to step up and do what we’ve tried to do, gets burned out and quits. 100 critics and 100 opinions and not one of you have the balls to carry the burden of making a decision, right or wrong, and signing your name to it, and putting yourself in the position to be criticized.

You know when I started this venture, I hoped to get a unified set of classes and rules. Now I see that is not the problem. This problem is getting you folks to understand to power you all have to destroy any attempt to help this hobby, by your heartless criticism.

I can, and I will detail my rational in making the decisions that I did. It will be another long detailed email that takes me 2 hours to write. And most of you will be satisfied, as you have been every other time, until the next tiny glitch in the process. Or I may find that I have made an error in judgment and need to fix the list, which will satisfy most of you, except those of you that say “here they go changing things again”.

It’s a no win situation, you’ve all collectively created. No one will pour their heart into something that is a no win. If this hobby is ever going to grow again it will only be when each of you, who post things only to stir up things on this forum, come to realize the responsibility you have with the words you type.

If you’ll allow me a nights sleep, I’ll try to address these issue in the morning if I can bring myself to give a flying $H!T about it anymore.

Steve

As racers we control the purse strings, if we refuse to buy the latest greatest that will send a message to the manufactures that they understand!

i have this to say about the guys complaining about "all" the rule changes. steve and allan released the rules early in my opinion to make everyone out there know ahead of time. this was done to try to help start getting everyo ne on the same page and let everyone know what they may have to get for this season. do you know how much time was put in to this? what they did was what so very many of us in this hobby have been asking for years. how many rule changes have there really been? mainly some newer products that came out after the original rules were written. so yes they had to change the rules to allow them. we as racers need the big companies to make the TOUR work. we do need them not to release anything new in the begining of the year like they always do. now if that happens and the TOUR allows them to be legal well then i think you would have someting to get upset about.

as far as the batteries go. how different from one another are they really going to be? i doubt you would see them any better than what you can currently buy. i think most of the companies thought that we would never get such a strong backing for single cell racing. then when they saw we would they wanted a part of the pie.

this is the 1st season for the TOUR rules package. is it perfect for everyone? no. will it ever be? no is it the best attempt to unify oval racers for the 1st time since ROAR bailed on us 10 years ago. YES
did everyone think this road would not be bumpy?

stve and allan, dont give up just yet. the season is just starting. once everyone starts running they will have less time on the keyboard or maybe like the work you guys have done.

dan, sorry post is too long......:wave:

ok lets shut up about rules and go racing

Keep up the good work Steve and Allan!!!

Steve, our prayers go out to you and your family. My grandfather had alzeiheimer's so I know where you are coming from & I saw what dealing with it everyday did to my mom. Definitely get some sleep & deal with these rules in the light of day. Comments like these are nothing new to track owners, but you guys have done a lot of work and deserve a lot of credit. You aren't paid to manage & organize TOUR. You are doing this out of complete unselfishness & for the good of the hobby. Many don't realize that the people putting this rules package together have other lives, parents, wives, children, etc that do & should come first. So if you ever feel up to getting back to the keyboard, I applaud you. And know that we will support you guys whatever you decide to do.

-Kim

Toy cars and bowling trophies. Family first. Steve, I work with families in your situation and there is no easy way to get through it, so best wishes to you and your family.

I concur with Alan that rules are made to be followed, create a level playing field and establish a standard for competition. They will never be perfect, but following them will improve the sport/hobby.

As a not-for-profit endeavor, TOUR is putting together rules that meet this standard and create a fair amount of expectations for the equipment necessary to compete in upcoming seasons.

I am a casual racer who began racing back in the mid 80's and simply don't want to pay to keep up with the never ending barrage of new products over the last 10 years. I truly appreciate the effort put forth to allow people like myself to buy what is needed to stay competitive for the season without the worry of everybody spending a couple hundred dollars to move onto the next big battery that leaves me in the dust.

New TOUR website will be launced this week.

www.stfuandrace.com :wave:

New TOUR website will be launced this week.

www.stfuandrace.com :wave:

that is great news! keep everyone informed etc etc what is the web addy? (from first post)

I guess i need to wake up!!! LOL

Behler you hit the nail on the head. lets just go with it. never have this many tracks and racers agreed to start a season with the same rules package. not everyone is happy and thats never going to happen but we have the best possible start EVER! so lets roll with it. our season starts out next week. many of us are so excited that we will be practicing this weekend just to get out there. so how about we all just be happy for all the hard work being put into this FOR US! plus like others have said it is FREE! all we have to do is race and enjoy it. Steve and Allan I beg you dont give up on us yet!

No other agendas for these guys accept making racing more predictable and uniform. They have nothing at stake with manufacturers and are making decisions based on what keeps as many companies involved in oval as possible and to try to make things as close to the same at most tracks so folks can travel and know what to expect at the track they are going to.

Steve and Allan you both are A+ guys with the best of intentions so just try your best to ignore the minority that would bitch if you gave them a $100 to race every week.

that is great news! keep everyone informed etc etc what is the web addy? (from first post)

I guess i need to wake up!!! LOL

LOL... that was the web addy, and that post was 100% sarcastic in nature :p

LOL... that was the web addy, and that post was 100% sarcastic in nature :p

i thought that was your web address LOL

Naaa... mine is www.kingofaholes.com, although Katf1sh is trying to buy it from me.

I completely support the TOUR and all their efforts they've put in. No doubt they've spent countless hours volunteering their time for the betterment of oval racing. In the end, I guess I just had gotten my hopes up that on Oct 1, I could order and have to me in 2-4 days, everything I would need to race the carpet season. That would give me 2 race days of practice/racing to get ready for the first BRL race of the season on Oct 17-18 in Cincy. I am hoping to compete at the highest level in this series, and so if an EPIC/TP/Speed Passion driver has the pack or motor that is approved, but not yet available to me, and it runs 1-2 seconds faster, that's huge when you're talking top of the A-main. What I've heard from Vegas is the EPIC pack is stout, maybe better than the TP, but TP also had a 50C pack out there that I'm sure is just a few weeks away.

Either way, I'll be at the first BRL race with what I hope is the best equipment available, and hopefully competing for the TQ and win. And come November I'm sure I'll buy the new Advanced Electronics ESC coming out that will be required if you wanna run at the top in 1 cell classes. I will continue to support the TOUR as I truly feel it will help out oval in the long run, just turned out the approval thing didn't go as cut and dry as I hoped it would the first time around.

Hope to see a big crowd in Cincy for the BRL opener!

Hi Everyone,

I'll take one more shot at this. I will take you though the logic we used in developing the list, and then, if there are flaws, we’ll fix them. Fair enough??

We had to consider a few different factors. 1) Racers wanted a list, locked and loaded, from October till May. 2) ROAR changed the rules 5 days before the submission deadline with an announcement to manufacturers. 3) Manufacturers responded to ROAR’s change, by altering their own internal deadlines to take advantage of the additional time given to them.

So it became impossible to hold manufacturers to a date that had just been changed on them. Therefore, here is what we set out to do:
· Start a list with the “already ROAR approved” batteries (SMC 4025S and TP5000-1SPR)
· Add to that list any battery “en route” or already submitted to ROAR for approval by the original deadline (TP5000-2SPR50, SMC 4950S, TRI20290, TEP2003, Reedy 719)
· Add to the list the SMC 4900SC pack. This was a unique exception. The pack was well within ROAR guidelines, but produced in limited quantity. It was never submitted and the product was discontinued. As a service to those who had purchased this pack, we saw no reason not to include it.
· The last step was to comb through other manufacturers to see if we were missing anybody who was in the process of seeking approval. The only one that fell into this category was SpeedPassion/Core. They experienced shipping and production delays overseas and had told me that they were approx. 6 weeks out. I was assured that this pack was on par with everything else out there so it made sense to add them to the list. Since then, they have been kind enough to inform us that there pack is delayed until Dec/Jan which is too far out for this approval. Therefore, those 2 items will be removed from the list.

With regard to the Fantom battery (FAN27600), it is approved. My thought was to only approve OEM’s, not matchers. My understanding was that the Fantom battery was a TP battery and would be considered approved based on TP’s approval. But, if it makes everyone happy, I’ll list it. But please understand, any other battery company using an OEM approved battery is approved by default (i.e. Power Push). I don’t intend to update the list for each new “label”.

So here is the revised list will be:

· Thunder Power TP5000-1SPR
· Thunder Power TP5000-1SPR50
· SMC SMC 4025S
· SMC SMC 4900SC
· SMC SMC 4950S
· Trinity TRI20290
· Trinity TEP2003
· Reedy 719
· Fantom FAN27600


Lastly, I want to address availability. We have no control over that. I have no way of predicting the quantity and timing of these batteries’ inventory by each respective manufacturer. Each product on the revised list has been tested, approved and produced in some quantity. In all that I have heard, I don’t see a major advantage from one to the next. It is a pretty level playing field.

That’s really the best we can do with what we’ve got to work with. If that is good enough for everyone, I’ll update the rules this evening. If not, Allan and I will simply drop the issue and leave it up to each track/series/event to figure it out on their own.

Take care guys.

Steve

I think the logic is fine Steve.

With the TOUR doing batt approvals going forward can we expect a hard deadline for next season? Meaning if you tell the companies you need production batts by sept 1st or they will not be legal...No questions asked.

With that being said I guess you have no control over how many they make, so I guess that doesn't help. For instance if Epic only wanted to make packs for their team drivers they could as long as it was approved by the deadline.

Steve, the list looks great. I'm sure you won't get 100% positive feed back on your list (But I've NEVER seen 100% agreement on anything on Hobby Talk), but it's more than we've ever had in the past. STAND YOUR GROUND, and most will support you. Thanks for everything you're doing for us. Terry

list looks good,and thanks for the time and effort to make racing better.

Fantastic job on updating the new classes. Much better in my opinion. Also, great job creating the bi-annual list of ROAR approved batteries. I didn't see bi-annual motors specifically mentioned, so I'm assuming motors will not be a "bi-annual list" but open ROAR approvals?

Steve from what i can tell you addressed the big issue of having a pack coming out no sooner then nov/dec. which keeps to the intent of the rule. as far as not being able to predict availability, your right. i do think that it would be a pretty bad PR move on epics part or any other company to hand out limited run batts to there guys. i dont think they will do that because of that and the guys that are sponsored should be able to do well enough without that perceived advantage. so lets hope its not a big issue. lets just go racing and have a great start to the season.

Great job, thanks, we (the oval community) are in termoil, not something new to us long timers, but hopefully your efforts will begin to smooth the waters a bit.

Steve,

Behind you guys 100%... I really respect the time and effort that all on the TOUR board have taken to help the racing that we all love and enjoy. Keep up the good work!!!!

Bill

ok i'm handing over the retard baton to dusty and pat! phew i thought i was going to get stuck with it until may! :hat:

casper i'll give ya 50.00 and the domain iamaretard.com since i no longer need it! and if you act now....i'll throw in iamaliarpantsonfire.com:rolleyes:

lmk

lmao... naa I'm good. I just bought www.worstpittyofawheel.com and am transferring everything over there.

on behalf of TEAM EPIC I will say we fully support the Tour Series. It isnt easy pleasing this sowing circle of racers. I know none of us stepped up and made a change, but Allan and Steve did! I say everyone needs to thank these guys and chill out.

There is only a hand full of guy on there that remember how painful it was to race just 3 years ago. NEW $100 batteries every run. $5 brushes every run. Speedo of the month. Rebuilding your motor every run.
We got it good now.
Enjoy race for what it is..... getting away from the evryday grind and hanging out with your buddies. I know i spend a great deal of money to race and it aint for a bowling trophy. I usually spend 50 on food and more on gas and thats not even hitting the track. everything is cheaper now.

We hope this is the last big change in oval for a few years, and it a step in the rite direction.

Lets just go race and and give it time to work. Allan and Steve your doing us a great service and deserve the respect of the racers getting things worked out. We asked for organization and less classes. I will just have to work harder to move from the D main to the C main in 13.5/cot. It will mean more than signing up for an A main and being 3 laps off.

does anyone know of anything that was "perfect" the 1st year?

steve i hope you and your dad are doing better and i would take a break from the boards for awhile...let someone like allan deal and field questions for the tour series until your life takes a better path...i told ya you were crazy.....he he

:hat:ok i'm handing over the retard baton to dusty and pat! phew i thought i was going to get stuck with it until may! :hat:

casper i'll give ya 50.00 and the domain iamaretard.com since i no longer need it! and if you act now....i'll throw in iamaliarpantsonfire.com:rolleyes:

lmk
Sorry Kat, that'll have to be pried from your hands...you've held it too tightly for too long to let go that easily.

Oh well Steve always remember.
The soon to be famous saying of my Grandfather.
"If you try to please everyone all the time you end up loosing your @#!%"
Great to see your Dad the other day. I'm here for you brother!!! Always, you know it.
By the way the Tour rules package is the BEST thing that has happened to Oval racing in years. This year should be some of the BEST racing that we all have ever had.
13.5 COT just an awsome class. :thumbsup:
Huck

.....