Guys,

Attached is my final version of the new of rules for the SK class cars for the 2009 - 2010 season. I thank everybody that provided their constructive input to help establish a baseline rules package for this season and beyond.

-Eric Dimmick
KSKT Racing Products
Darkside Motorsports

Looks like a great starting point.:thumbsup: It will be interesting to see how people feel.

Great start. Here's my comments

* Weight of the cars should probably be lowered for LiPo
* Regarding the description of a shock, where it says "located within a spring" should be deleted. Even if the shock has no spring, it should be illegal.
* I think the old rules limited us to 1 damper tube, and it had to be side to side? If we are allowed 2, I think we'd see one mounted front to rear on some cars.
* The dimensions for the add-on spoilers are different in two sections of the rules.
* I think cooling motors is tough to tech. Lots of stuff happens in the pits that no one is going to see.
* The list of who would be on the SKOR board kinda scares me. "mafufacturers, SKOR officials, and select members" could be a large number of people. The larger a group is, the less efficient they are (see also "Congress", and "Governemnt":tongue:)
* The dimensions for the fabbed bodies probably needs more restrictions. If you want I can help with that.

Eric, nice job. Glad I didn't take this task on....

E- Other than the few things posted above,looks good.Glad to see the battery
allowed to 40C,and 5000mah.As SMC's new pack is all but roar approved.Plus the Thunder Power batts aren't left out.IMHO any approvals in equipment or rules changes
I believe should be left to the mfrs currently supporting the class.These mfrs should be considered as SKOR. With what has been posted,one couldn't really ask for much more as I see it.1-cell,2-cell,10.5 thru 21.5,tires,bodies, it's all there.Bravo Eric.

Thanks for the input guys. Dale, I like your suggestions and will make the necessary changes to the rules as they evolve next week. I also agree that we need to keep the "board" as small as practical to facilitate making decisions. I would also like your input on the body dimensions, I was kind of winging some of the numbers.

Keep the suggestions coming!

-E

....Rich Hammond

Do you know what rules will be used for the Snowbirds? Will fabericated bodies have to have a windshield and rear window?

I took the liberty of forwarding this to Mike Boylan.I'm sure he will take a look soon.

Do you know what rules will be used for the Snowbirds? Will fabericated bodies have to have a windshield and rear window?

I would say no, but I'm not certain, don't start folding lexan just yet.

-E

its like havin a pan car this was supposed to be a cheap division, but like everything else it just got out of hand who cares anymore rules are allways bent to someones likin. glad i just run laps and have fun with littel to no expense, less stress that way and i can have fun with out going broke buying the best of everything for a car that was desighned to be cheap. lol, hope these rules actully work out since i havnt seen any real ones in few yrs.

The RSE Chassis should be listed.
1cell lipo weight should be 32oz
2cell lipo should be eliminated.

Why cant a front bumper be wider than 3 inches?...
Why do the rear tires cutouts have to extend beyond the rear tires?
Dont think steel t-plates should be allowed....just fiberglass....
RSE is not listed in the allowed list?

The RSE Chassis should be listed.
1cell lipo weight should be 32oz
2cell lipo should be eliminated.

I'll add the RSE car to the list, sorry for missing it, are they still available? I still need to work on the weight issue for the cars in both battery classes. As far as the 2cell LIPO, I kept that for this season with the idea that it is a transitional class and maybe deleted next year depending on what everybody is running. Given the spirit of the class, I think that many people still have those packs and I do not really have a good reason to not have a class with them.

-E

Why cant a front bumper be wider than 3 inches?...
Why do the rear tires cutouts have to extend beyond the rear tires?
Dont think steel t-plates should be allowed....just fiberglass....
RSE is not listed in the allowed list?

I'm open to a different dimension on the bumper, what is the commonly used width? As far as t-plates are concerned, I keep going back and forth on this one, I made the decision in the interest of durability, to allow the spring steel ones. If the general opinion is to not allow them, then we'll go in that direction. I'd like to see some other opinions on that. See above on the RSE chassis

-E

Back in the day, with the old rules, I think the bumper width was kept narrow to prevent guys from running a full width bumper that was wider than the outer edges of the tires. Besides looking funny, I think it was an attempt to keep guys from using the bumper on other cars, and to keep the cars "open wheel".

I don't like the cost of the steel t-plates, but I think it pays off with durability. The SK's are alway a rough class. I think allowing steel is good.

Regarding rear wheel well openings not protruding into the side windows. That's meant to keep guys from slamming the bodies down real low. But some bodies don't have a molded in window line, so you could move the window wherever you want when you paint the body. I don't think anything is wrong with not having molded in lines. Maybe an actual roof height limit is the way to go?

"Regarding rear wheel well openings not protruding into the side windows. That's meant to keep guys from slamming the bodies down real low. But some bodies don't have a molded in window line, so you could move the window wherever you want when you paint the body. I don't think anything is wrong with not having molded in lines. Maybe an actual roof height limit is the way to go?"


I was looking and a minimum roof height of 4inch w/ a max of 4.25(limit raking also) at the rear of the roof. And a mximum spoiler height of 4.5in from ground to top of spoiler at ride height.

Just my thoughts for this......

Wow! 2 pages and no screaming and threatning to quit forever, nothing like when dirt oval .com made up their rules or when the Tour rules were proposed? could we be going in the right direction? :dude:

at my old track some guys ran s/k's and everyone was running an rpm bumper made for the rc10gt i believe...they actually looked pretty good mounted on an s/k and save the
unprotected frontend....I think they were 6 inches wide but definately were not as wide as the front wheel base......
.
I think a roof hieght is the way to go..............not so much worrying how someone cuts out the tire lines........

"Regarding rear wheel well openings not protruding into the side windows. That's meant to keep guys from slamming the bodies down real low. But some bodies don't have a molded in window line, so you could move the window wherever you want when you paint the body. I don't think anything is wrong with not having molded in lines. Maybe an actual roof height limit is the way to go?"


I was looking and a minimum roof height of 4inch w/ a max of 4.25(limit raking also) at the rear of the roof. And a mximum spoiler height of 4.5in from ground to top of spoiler at ride height.

Just my thoughts for this......

I agree with having a specified roof/spoiler height limit in lieu of the body cut-out rule.

-E

at my old track some guys ran s/k's and everyone was running an rpm bumper made for the rc10gt i believe...they actually looked pretty good mounted on an s/k and save the
unprotected frontend....I think they were 6 inches wide but definately were not as wide as the front wheel base......
.
I think a roof hieght is the way to go..............not so much worrying how someone cuts out the tire lines........

That bumper might work. I was actually thinking about doing a small kydex one, but was kind of at a loss for what it really needed to look like. I was also looking into a small "cage" for the front, more like a real car, but could'd find a place to source one that was cost effective. Same thing with the side nerf wing/bar

-E

I'll add the RSE car to the list, sorry for missing it, are they still available?
-E

Yes, If RSE is contacted i believe they are available direct and I know first hand that Turn 4 Has a few in stock.

I'm going to talk with Hank about having a thread with a sticky in the oval spec area that will have hi-res pictures of all of the "approved" chassis as well as the rules summary so that anybody can tech a car by looking on the internet if there is a question. The thread would be locked when the current season's rules go into effect and not changed until the open period the following year. Basically if the chassis being run is not on the website thread, it will not be legal. Any thoughts?

-E

I'm going to talk with Hank about having a thread with a sticky in the oval spec area that will have hi-res pictures of all of the "approved" chassis as well as the rules summary so that anybody can tech a car by looking on the internet if there is a question. The thread would be locked when the current season's rules go into effect and not changed until the open period the following year. Basically if the chassis being run is not on the website thread, it will not be legal. Any thoughts?

-E

That is a great idea!

I like the idea of allowing fabbed bodies because I'd like to build one, but at the same time I'm afraid too many people would come up with abominations rather than asphalt modifieds.

Wow! 2 pages and no screaming and threatning to quit forever, nothing like when dirt oval .com made up their rules or when the Tour rules were proposed? could we be going in the right direction? :dude:

Whoops. Too soon.:hat: I like the way its going. A few minor tweaks and it should be good to go.

I like the idea of allowing fabbed bodies because I'd like to build one, but at the same time I'm afraid too many people would come up with abominations rather than asphalt modifieds.

Fabed bodies need to be approved before racing. So if anyone is going to make one it should resemble a Sk/Tour mod. Not a sprint car,super mod,or a figure 8 car ect.

Let us all try TO stay on Point Here .Eric great job so far .How are you going to police the no tampering thing with the motor's .Just wondering

No because I havent been on yet to throw my 2cents in. opening up that stupid rule to allow panel bodies in SK is just that STUPID!!!

As far as my bodies I made that didnt have windows cut out, well the new mods dont have rear windows now and I just simple got lazy and didnt feel like drilling a million tiny holes for detail.

Just what we need to introduce at the birds is more problems like last year, I guess tech will need a ruler or a butt load of templates.. that should be fun.

I dunno eric, I handed a company over and didnt think you would allow something like this but like I said whats my comments worth...

Kenny shut up and sit down!
DARKSIDE Keep up the good work.

Eric and I talked over the weekend via email (before Ken's 2 cents) about the fabbed bodies. The folded lexan bodies will be removed from the rules.

I'm going to talk with Hank about having a thread with a sticky in the oval spec area that will have hi-res pictures of all of the "approved" chassis as well as the rules summary so that anybody can tech a car by looking on the internet if there is a question.
-E

Curious to take a look at the new Leading Edge,and Hyperdrive cars.

Maybe with the folded bodies not going to work,with luck somebody will make
some other molded ones.Are those Beefy SK bodies (short trunk) still around??

Eric and I talked over the weekend via email (before Ken's 2 cents) about the fabbed bodies. The folded lexan bodies will be removed from the rules.

good move eric, now go make 10 molds and everything would be fine, allow it for local club racing were it "Doesnt" matter, like illegal motors,springs,rods and oh yea dont leave me out flared out lower skirts, no one says anything right.

Guys,

Attached is my first pass at a new set of rules for the SK class cars for the coming season and beyond. I'd like to have input on these rules and CONSTRUCTIVE opinions. What is here is not set in stone at this point and still needs some tweaking, I'd imagine, to get everybody on board. Please post your comments here and I'll be happy to update things as they are decided upon.

-Eric

Can we add: No sarcasm,and no name calling after the CONSTRUCTIVE opinions statment. It really does make us all look bad,and it will only get worse if you let it go. Any new people, or previously interested people looking in will just say they don't want to get involved,or same old junk going on. And history shows it only one person that starts it. Eric your doing a great job,it may not be what everybody wants, myself included, but if it get us all on the same page so be it. I'm not going to throw a temper tantrum about it.
Lets get it together and RACE.:thumbsup:

Eric and I talked over the weekend via email (before Ken's 2 cents) about the fabbed bodies. The folded lexan bodies will be removed from the rules.

I still want one Dale.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I still want one Dale.:thumbsup::thumbsup:Actually so do I, and I'll get with you soon. :dude:

This is the only time not having any money is good. I dont have to get involved.

Hey Ken lets eat some PIZZA!!! YOU BUY, SEE LINE 1 Im broke!

Ken you do know my post#17 wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular right? Rich Hammond :dude:

No because I havent been on yet to throw my 2cents in. opening up that stupid rule to allow panel bodies in SK is just that STUPID!!!

As far as my bodies I made that didnt have windows cut out, well the new mods dont have rear windows now and I just simple got lazy and didnt feel like drilling a million tiny holes for detail.

Just what we need to introduce at the birds is more problems like last year, I guess tech will need a ruler or a butt load of templates.. that should be fun.

I dunno eric, I handed a company over and didnt think you would allow something like this but like I said whats my comments worth...

Don't get your panties in a wad quite yet there Ken. I think that the idea of a hand fabbed panel body is a killer idea. I think that the main problem right now is that it is such a new concept with this class. It's going to take longer than I'm interested in keeping the rules un-finalized to get exactly what we want for dimensions/templates for something that will actually work. After chatting with Dale, I think that for the 2010 rules package, we will probably not allow these bodies. I think that a good amount of R&D will need to be done before we find something acceptable to most people for the following season.

It's also come to my attention that the current DRC chassis violates the spring count rules. The intent here is to allow the car, as is, for 2010 so that the people who have them can still run them this season. Dale has given his word that there will be no more of these cars made and that when they're gone, they're gone. He is coming out with a new car for the coming season that complies with the rules. The old version DRC chassis will most likely be dropped from the approved list for the 2011 season. Keep the good ideas coming, I will do a running update to the rules here in the next couple of weeks to incorporate the ideas that are coming out on this thread. Remember, post your CONSTRUCTIVE, etc, etc, ideas here, make your point or shut the #@&* up when you don't get your way. The open rules period ends October 1st for the 2009-2010 season.

-E

Not being unconstructive or anything but I have one of those chassis and what if I ran it with the T plate setup and 1 dampner tube and only 2 springs on the axle? :dude:

Not being unconstructive or anything but I have one of those chassis and what if I ran it with the T plate setup and 1 dampner tube and only 2 springs on the axle? :dude:

Great point. I should have commented on that earlier. The DRC Warrior is also available as a conventional t-plate car using tweak screws (also currently SKOR approved). The only springs on that car are on the front king pins. Eric, that configuration should still be legal after 2010, right? No more would be produced, but they will still be supported from DRC.

Pictures of both versions of the car can be viewed on drc-engineering.com.

Just a question on battery size , why limit the Sportsmans class Lipo 2-cell to 3200mah most mfg have 5000 available? thanks guys for all your hard work. Bob

Just a question on battery size , why limit the Sportsmans class Lipo 2-cell to 3200mah most mfg have 5000 available? thanks guys for all your hard work. Bob

I'm feeling you on that. I will do a bit of research before a final decision is made. I'd like to align the motor/battery rules with the T.O.U.R. & BRL rules as much as possible while still having it make as much sense as possible for what racers actually have in their boxes.

-E

Eric,I know a few of the guys that want to run some with 2-cell batts.As for the 3200
mah packs,most of the guys I know have pancars also.If trying to unify the rules across the board with Tour,BRL,etc. I would keep the 3200/40C spec. Would help those that have it already and those that don't,as to what to purchase,and be able to run any of the places/races that are going to use the rules.Makes sense.Suckfish has a valid point,and I'm sure that alot of guys have other 2-cell batts,that they would hope to be able to use also.I have 2 different 2-cell packs already,and neither match or come close to rules spec.
2-way street for sure.Maybe a poll??:confused:

Post from another thread...

My thoughts being, lets put the driver back into the game. This is why a few of us thought that 17.5 2c would be the best bet. As it is now 13.51c and 21.5 2c everybody says are pretty close together, plus all you do is peg the throttle and turn the wheel. Lets face it if somebodys radio is off a couple of clicks they cant drive their car. So a few of us figured lets overpower the car as it was intended years ago when the class started and let the drivers drive, and just use the radio as a source of the signal and not the main ingreadent as to how good the car works.

If I could have it my way Id make everybody run an analog radio, lets see what happens then.

Darrel, you're a brave man. I ran 17.5 2-cell in my pan car at the winterblast. That was fast enough for a pan car, probably too hairy for an SK at most tracks. I'm not a fan of 1-cell, but I think most SK's can fit a 1c easier than a 2c, because it's the size of a 4-cell NiMh. I agree that 1c 13.5 is slow (at tracks like RC Madness, at smaller tracks it's probably good). Maybe 10.5 at Madness. There isn't a single motor/battery combo that's gonna be good everywhere.

I broke my chassis plate with 4 cell stock...17.5 2s? OUCH. lol.

Darrel, you're a brave man. I ran 17.5 2-cell in my pan car at the winterblast. That was fast enough for a pan car, probably too hairy for an SK at most tracks. I'm not a fan of 1-cell, but I think most SK's can fit a 1c easier than a 2c, because it's the size of a 4-cell NiMh. I agree that 1c 13.5 is slow (at tracks like RC Madness, at smaller tracks it's probably good). Maybe 10.5 at Madness. There isn't a single motor/battery combo that's gonna be good everywhere.

I remember last season before the winterblast,some of the guys were practicing at Madness with 21.5 2S. Supposedly the new madness track will be bigger,wouldn't hurt to test and see how they work.Through the forums,10.5 1S is comparable to 21.5 2S. At a point some will end up having to buy batts and/or a motor or 2 either way.Myself included.

So I would love to see SK's take off all over the place, but with so many classes in your rules I am not sure it will catch on. Why not offer 2 classes...

13.5 1C for smaller tracks
10.5 1C for bigger tracks

This will unify the class, and bring the class count up. IMO SK's are not a begginer class. Open wheel cars with expensive parts are easy to break for new people. 13.5 1C would be pretty fast with how light they are, and 10.5 would be very quick. I would actually like to see it all 13.5 1C and only have 1 class all over the country! 13.5 Novak Havok for 150 bucks, and a 1C pack for 50 bucks...NEW...Done brand new for 200 bucks.

This is just my opinion as someone who has run an sk a few times, but its not an option where I race, as there are really no rules around it. Not to mention the tension between chassis companies...WOW!! LOL!

One question. who are the SKOR people that we can get intouch for appovals?

One question. who are the SKOR people that we can get intouch for appovals?

You can contact me at eric@darksidems.com

Eric, do you know what combination of rules that Mike B. will use for the Bird,s this year. I think I read that Mike is going to list classes in September. I think most of the FL. racers are doing 13.5/1cell/25c or the SMC 1cell. I am going to try to run SK as a second class and would like to start getting equipment together early.

Thank
Larry

Hey Larry. Nothing in stone yet - but we are opening up batteries in the class soon so I am almost certain batteries will be Roar approved. The big question will be motors. We have about 15 guys in Florida already racing 13.5s... but will wait and see what it looks like majority are racing to get the best crowd, best racing, and make the most fit right in. I am excited we have a rule book. Thanks Erik!